ll2 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) My bike has done all it was asked and still runs fine and still starts at the first touch. I feel I have gotten excellent value from it. That is it in a nutshell. Many posters here feel that they must ride something with a "name brand" or their self-worth will be lowered in the eyes of others. Pity has been mentioned as a way of looking at riders of bikes made in China. Others have posted many times that whatever they ride is the best of all possible bikes, and their brand of tires the best of all possible tires, ... Sad - but so goes the human condition. Looking for self worth in other opinions. and there are some posters that have no idea what is respecting other's ideas, how to discuss things etc and there are some with realization problems and some say things just to oppose or say something! people can like, recommend and say whatever they like. They dont point a gun to your face to get that specific brand of tire or bike, do they? Edited February 12, 2015 by ll2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taninthai Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 3 year-old crf. Are for sale at around 110k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchbike Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 A 2 year old Lifan 200 Cross bought for 10K, well I have to admit special price just for me ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ll2 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) 3 year-old crf. Are for sale at around 110k actually recently seen a crf250m for 90 k thb and at 4000 km, like new! So, crf250l and m are going less than 100 k nowadays so throwing 60 k thb for another Chinese brand/model does not make any sense. if you really want to throw, at least get the cheapest 46k thb Lifan as Chinese is Chinese Edited February 12, 2015 by ll2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllanB Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 We are getting back to the pro/anti Chinese argument again when it comes to the Lifan, but in another thread owners seem pretty satisfied, with very few faults being reported over many years of ownership. So the "don't buy Chinese" doesn't really apply to this machine, any more than any Jap bikes made, or with parts made in China. You guys are talking about how much would you get for your Jap CRF after 3 years and come up with some magic figure of 75K. These are off-road bikes and will get a hammering, so it may actually be 3 years old but could look 10 years, or if you bend it, it will be worth scrap value. I rode a 6 month old Kawa hire bike and I wouldn't pay half the original price for that, with all the rattles and clatters. On the other hand in 3 years your Lifan is paid for and remember too that the engine/gearbox are reputed to be very tough, but even so you can by a new replacement for a little over 10k. I think you could add one more factor, that of sensible riding, if you have a capable off-road bike, tough as nails CRF you are going to giving its some welly and that will show after a while. If you have a bike which is more of a soft-roader, you may be a little more considerate. So financially it is a one bike choice.... now if you want to thrash the borrocks off the machine, then the Lifan may be a somewhat disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ll2 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 We are getting back to the pro/anti Chinese argument again when it comes to the Lifan, but in another thread owners seem pretty satisfied, with very few faults being reported over many years of ownership. So the "don't buy Chinese" doesn't really apply to this machine, any more than any Jap bikes made, or with parts made in China. You guys are talking about how much would you get for your Jap CRF after 3 years and come up with some magic figure of 75K. These are off-road bikes and will get a hammering, so it may actually be 3 years old but could look 10 years, or if you bend it, it will be worth scrap value. I rode a 6 month old Kawa hire bike and I wouldn't pay half the original price for that, with all the rattles and clatters. On the other hand in 3 years your Lifan is paid for and remember too that the engine/gearbox are reputed to be very tough, but even so you can by a new replacement for a little over 10k. I think you could add one more factor, that of sensible riding, if you have a capable off-road bike, tough as nails CRF you are going to giving its some welly and that will show after a while. If you have a bike which is more of a soft-roader, you may be a little more considerate. So financially it is a one bike choice.... now if you want to thrash the borrocks off the machine, then the Lifan may be a somewhat disappointing. it is only one or two owners allan. so hard to come to a consensus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 ...anyway... papa al , yes , the x-plore has a "correct" gearchange pattern , but the cross (x) still has the daft 5 down pattern. I infer that if one owned a 'daft'-shifting Lifan, he could buy some parts and convert it. I'd like to know more about this. Can this be done on other makes too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shurup Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 papa al , yes , the x-plore has a "correct" gearchange pattern , but the cross (x) still has the daft 5 down pattern. Googling "reverse shifter" brings up a lot of results, a quick glance shows that it takes minutes to make the change (I didn't look into details however). So changing the 5 down pattern to 5 up would look more like a proper bike pattern and easier to get used to? I know I'd be confused as hell with 5 down, it's all muscle memory and I don't think about it when shifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_boo Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 papa al , yes , the x-plore has a "correct" gearchange pattern , but the cross (x) still has the daft 5 down pattern.Googling "reverse shifter" brings up a lot of results, a quick glance shows that it takes minutes to make the change (I didn't look into details however).So changing the 5 down pattern to 5 up would look more like a proper bike pattern and easier to get used to? I know I'd be confused as hell with 5 down, it's all muscle memory and I don't think about it when shifting. If there's room, you simply reverse the cam on the transmission where the shift rod attaches. I.e. if cam arm is on the back side of the shaft towards the rear tyre you take it off, turn it over and reinstall so it is on the front tyre of the shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shurup Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 papa al , yes , the x-plore has a "correct" gearchange pattern , but the cross (x) still has the daft 5 down pattern.Googling "reverse shifter" brings up a lot of results, a quick glance shows that it takes minutes to make the change (I didn't look into details however).So changing the 5 down pattern to 5 up would look more like a proper bike pattern and easier to get used to? I know I'd be confused as hell with 5 down, it's all muscle memory and I don't think about it when shifting. If there's room, you simply reverse the cam on the transmission where the shift rod attaches. I.e. if cam arm is on the back side of the shaft towards the rear tyre you take it off, turn it over and reinstall so it is on the front tyre of the shaft. I have just been looking into it, yes it looks pretty easy, all it takes is loosening and rotating the arm (to which the rod attached) around on the shifting shaft, however how much it needs to be rotated is bike dependent. If I was buying this bike, it wouldn't leave the dealer floor without this "mod". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ll2 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 ...anyway... papa al , yes , the x-plore has a "correct" gearchange pattern , but the cross (x) still has the daft 5 down pattern. I infer that if one owned a 'daft'-shifting Lifan, he could buy some parts and convert it. I'd like to know more about this. Can this be done on other makes too? it can be done. actually it is moto gp style, one up and five down! and some claim it is easier to shift especially while leaning down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 So could this be done on a Yamaha Spark135 w/ clutch? Or on a Wave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllanB Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 We are getting back to the pro/anti Chinese argument again when it comes to the Lifan, but in another thread owners seem pretty satisfied, with very few faults being reported over many years of ownership. So the "don't buy Chinese" doesn't really apply to this machine, any more than any Jap bikes made, or with parts made in China. You guys are talking about how much would you get for your Jap CRF after 3 years and come up with some magic figure of 75K. These are off-road bikes and will get a hammering, so it may actually be 3 years old but could look 10 years, or if you bend it, it will be worth scrap value. I rode a 6 month old Kawa hire bike and I wouldn't pay half the original price for that, with all the rattles and clatters. On the other hand in 3 years your Lifan is paid for and remember too that the engine/gearbox are reputed to be very tough, but even so you can by a new replacement for a little over 10k. I think you could add one more factor, that of sensible riding, if you have a capable off-road bike, tough as nails CRF you are going to giving its some welly and that will show after a while. If you have a bike which is more of a soft-roader, you may be a little more considerate. So financially it is a one bike choice.... now if you want to thrash the borrocks off the machine, then the Lifan may be a somewhat disappointing. it is only one or two owners allan. so hard to come to a consensus. There were 3 I think, plus a friend of mine has one, who really rags all his bikes, it looks as rough as hell now, but still runs 4 years on and with no votes against, that's okay for me. The bike is pretty basic too and the engine/gearbox used on numerous other bikes and machines...and very cheap to replace, I think that is a good deal, especially for 1/3rd the price of a Honda/Kawa. At 46k you can have a lot of fun and not worry too much, even if you total it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shurup Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 So could this be done on a Yamaha Spark135 w/ clutch? Or on a Wave? See the small drawing that I made, it should explain.Every bike is different though and it might not work this well (or at all) on some bikes. Can't comment about Spark nor Wave without seeing the shifter up close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shurup Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If the shifter is mounted right on the shaft - nuttinyoucandoaboutit. http://www.your-adrenaline-fix.com/image-files/shift-lever.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantan Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 ...anyway... papa al , yes , the x-plore has a "correct" gearchange pattern , but the cross (x) still has the daft 5 down pattern. I infer that if one owned a 'daft'-shifting Lifan, he could buy some parts and convert it. I'd like to know more about this. Can this be done on other makes too? Thats interesting news and makes the x-plore much more attractive to me. I dont like to open a brand new engine to change some parts to have a "normal" gear pattern. Richard once told us that its possible to do on a Cross. But Richard is telling a lot when he is drunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I think Richard must be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm jeff Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Shurup , good drawing , and this reverses all changes , EG "normal" is = N , down=1 , up=N , up again=2 , up again=3 , 4,5,6 (down=1, up = N ,2,3,4,5,6). Your mod changes this to a "race" patern = N , up=1 , down=N , down again =2 , down again=3 , ,4,5,6 (up=1 ,down = N 2,3,4,5,6). The (X) Cross however has N , down=1 , down again=2 , again=3,4,5. All the gears are one "one side" of N , if that makes sense. If you could reverse the pattern then you would end up with N , up=1 , up again=2 , again=3,4,5. On the Lifan (X) cross you dont go "through" N . A while ago - sorry , cant remember thread - Richard BKK mentioned a gearbox modification that gave the cross a propper ( you have to go through N ) change pattern. By this i assumed it to be the down=1 , up=N ,2,3,4,5 , as it consisted of a gear selector cam and lever that required the selector plate (behind the gear lever) removing in order to change the parts . A 30 minute job . Dont know if this "kit" is available but i think it would benefit many that are used to a propper change pattern. In other countries this Lifan 163 FML engine/gearbox combination has a propper change patern - go figure !. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllanB Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Isn't it just a case of getting used to the pattern, I have a Wave with all down gears and get straight on my NV and have have no problems? I rode my mates Lifan years ago and it took a few minutes to get used to this odd pattern, seems a lot of trouble to go to when the brain can work it out fairly quickly. I think if I owned one it would be second nature within a few days, just like figuring out where the other controls are, horn, lights, ignition and starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Who really cares about resale value? Are pinching pennies so necessary? Canuckamuck (welcome back haven't seen you for a while) bought a bike. He's ridden the bike. He enjoys (?) the ride. He spent 45,000 baht. That's 80,000 less than the competition. That's a lot of money in pocket for repairs. That's a lot of fuel for riding. That's a lot of money for upgrades/farkles. That's a lot of money for beer to wash away the pains of riding a dual sport. That's a lot of money for.....you get the picture. I am not vehemently anti-Chinese bikes. However I do recognise their flaws and will point them out, as I do wit the Japanese bikes, so that others can make informed decisions. 1. The majority, I suspect. Me. 2. Dunno, variable. He enjoys (?) He enjoys (!) Please iterate the flaws for the LF250GY-7 then. KTM: right. Edited February 13, 2015 by papa al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Isn't it just a case of getting used to the pattern, I have a Wave with all down gears and get straight on my NV and have have no problems? I rode my mates Lifan years ago and it took a few minutes to get used to this odd pattern, seems a lot of trouble to go to when the brain can work it out fairly quickly. I think if I owned one it would be second nature within a few days, just like figuring out where the other controls are, horn, lights, ignition and starter. From my experience you obviously will get used to it. But there is always that time when you are pushing the bike a little hard, you're in the zone, working from instinct, and you grab a lower gear when you really needed a higher one. Then your revs hit the stratosphere, and you look like a chump just learning to ride. It happens less and les the more you ride it though, and it is also possible that I am more absent minded than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantan Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think Richard must be correct. He always is! And you can be the first to try and tell us all about it Buy a Cross, order the parts (guess Richard is happy to tell you what you need; he said its a cheap and easy fix) and let the mechanics at your favorite Lifan dealer open the gearbox and do the conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 w If and when, I'll have my mechanics do the work. Not the geniuses at a Lifan shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedy Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 http://www.sportrider.com/should-you-reverse-your-shift-pattern-riding-skills-series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm jeff Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 A race/reverse pattern gearshift change is sometimes done on track bikes , but only on ones where one has to shift "through" N when shifting from 1st to 2nd. As the pattern on the Lifan , and Wave , is N , then all down , it wont take people who ride both type of bikes much to remember the pattern. The gearbox does not have to come apart / open to do this modification ( if its still available ) just remove the cover plate. The Lifan X-plore has the common change pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shurup Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 A race/reverse pattern gearshift change is sometimes done on track bikes , but only on ones where one has to shift "through" N when shifting from 1st to 2nd. As the pattern on the Lifan , and Wave , is N , then all down , it wont take people who ride both type of bikes much to remember the pattern. The gearbox does not have to come apart / open to do this modification ( if its still available ) just remove the cover plate. The Lifan X-plore has the common change pattern. Changing it to N and 5 up will make it close enough to the normal shifting pattern. I could live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm jeff Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Shurup , you can only do a change over like this if the gear lever / foot pedal operates a rod and lever - as per your drawings - but i believe the Lifans gear lever operates straight onto the selecter shaft that exits the gearbox , so cant be changed by any "external" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 My friend has a yellow Lifan and says it has given problems only once: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_boo Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 My friend has a yellow Lifan and says it has given problems only once: wheels off.png Bet he really "stuck" that landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaorop Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) My bike has done all it was asked and still runs fine and still starts at the first touch. I feel I have gotten excellent value from it. That is it in a nutshell. Many posters here feel that they must ride something with a "name brand" or their self-worth will be lowered in the eyes of others. Pity has been mentioned as a way of looking at riders of bikes made in China. Others have posted many times that whatever they ride is the best of all possible bikes, and their brand of tires the best of all possible tires, ... Sad - but so goes the human condition. Looking for self worth in other opinions. my post was a jibe at the "wont buy chinese must be stuck in a rut" lame comment but we are talking about bikes in thailand after all, and if you think thais dont subscribe to "look what i got" in a very very big way you are sadly out of touch, and the word pity was wrong it should have been derision, now obviously you are of a much higher order and are not affected by such things maybe you should take your lifan to burapa? but the questions are, do you ride? do you own one? and do you live in thailand? fact is, if there was a brand new 1968 Yamaha DT1 and a new Lifan-cross, Id pick the Yam every day Edited February 14, 2015 by kaorop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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