Putting a 'second honeymoon' trip together for the north with Mrs NL next week. With a 10:00 arrival in Chiang Mai, I was planning on maximizing the daylight and heading to Chiang Rai with a stopover on the way and doing Chiang Mai on the return leg. So the itinerary will look similar to this.

Tuesday = Arrive CNX at 10:00 and drive north. See some sights. First night accommodation somewhere in between.

Wednesday = Sight seeing in and around Chiang Rai, Second night accommodation in Chiang Rai area.

Thursday = See some more sights and head back towards Chiang Mai. Third night accommodation on the road somewhere.

Friday = In and around Chiang Mai. Fourth night accommodation in the city.

Saturday = Sight seeing in Chiang Mai with a 16:00 departure from CNX.

Need some advice on expected drive times and recommendations on what best sights to see as there's so much to cram into the short visit. Not into hill tribe village package tours but places with stunning views of mountains and rivers. Roadside eateries? Notable National Parks are also on the to-do list. And any advice and recommendations on the accommodation bits too, especially any romantic getaway sort of places.

Thanks!

NL

CM to CR is about three hours if you just scoot up and down the 118.

Maybe PM some of the guys who live in the CR area - villagefarang, tangaroa67 and fiddlesticks come to mind - to tap into local experience. For mountain views, you could consider going up Doi Angkang (to do that you could return from CR to CM via Fang and the 107 to CM).

We're in CM now. First time here in many years. We're having a great time. Fantastic city to explore. We're headed to CR today and will be going to Fang on the way. I'll post back what we did.

I don't know much about CR as I haven't been there in years, but CM has a lot to offer. After what I've seen, I'd like to come back and spend more time. The flower festival yesterday was great.

CM to CR is about three hours if you just scoot up and down the 118.

Maybe PM some of the guys who live in the CR area - villagefarang, tangaroa67 and fiddlesticks come to mind - to tap into local experience. For mountain views, you could consider going up Doi Angkang (to do that you could return from CR to CM via Fang and the 107 to CM).

I will do that. Thanks for the Doi Ankang tip. We already have Mae Salong on the list.

We're in CM now. First time here in many years. We're having a great time. Fantastic city to explore. We're headed to CR today and will be going to Fang on the way. I'll post back what we did.

I don't know much about CR as I haven't been there in years, but CM has a lot to offer. After what I've seen, I'd like to come back and spend more time. The flower festival yesterday was great.

Looking forward to your tips!

I'd consider visiting Mae Fah Luang gardens and Doi Tung Villa near CR. I hesitate to suggest specific places, since everyone's taste is different.

You said you don't want organised hill-tribe village tours, (quite right!) but if you want to see some villages, I'd suggest (uh-oh, now I'm suggesting ) Ban Nor Lae (nice little local crafts market) right on the Myanmar border and Ban Khop Dong, both on top of Doi Angkang. If you want to see a few pics, to decide if this suits you, I was up there last month, and wrote a wee blog (highland2thailand.blogspot.com)...it also has a post or two on visits to the CR area. I hope that my ramblings might be of some help in deciding what you want / don't want to see in the area.

Take a look at this topic in the Chiang Rai Forum, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/652206-top-50-must-sees-in-chiang-rai-province/ for ideas of places to see.

Doi Angkhang Nature Resort would be a very romantic place to stay for one night and the gardens and trails are lovely this time of year. Be warned the roads are very steep, however. Mae Salong and Doi Tung are also nice and should be approached from the 107 and the 1089 if you are coming from Doi Angkhang.

I can't imagine either of you guys will have time but if you would like to have a coffee in town while you are here just send my a PM and we will see what we can do.

We took the 1249 up to Doi Angkang...as VF said it's steep and has hellish hairpin bends: we were on Honda PCXs, which coped well, but my buddy was almost wiped out by a silver minibus.... We came down on the 1340 which was a whole lot gentler in all respects, although the views were not so good.

The trees are in full bloom just now...cherry blossom will soon be falling like confetti.

I'll offer a variation on VF's invitation - if you have time and would like t meet up, Mrs R & I would be happy to do so, although Saturday is out for me, since Hell's Grampas are due for a wee trip somewhere again!

Enjoy your trip anyway!

We left CM and stopped in Tha Ton for lunch. Tha Ton Riverview:

http://thaton-riverview-resort.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/

Food was OK. We had lunch for 6, no booze, for 800B! Right on the river. Stunning setting. Also would be a great place to spend a night or two. Very quiet.

The drive was pretty good. Scenic. A bit curvy in a few places, but not too bad. At the Dusit Island Resort now. Quite nice. Heading out to the night market. I think we are heading up north tomorrow for the day, but not 100% sure of the agenda. We hired a minivan with driver for 1,800B per day, plus fuel. Speaks a bit of English and really knows his way around here. Great deal. We can sit in the back, drink wine and enjoy the views.

More tomorrow or so!

We went to the CR night market, both of them. The "Thai" one was just OK, but good food. Typical Thai stuff. The tourist one was quite nice. Still the typical tourist stuff, but had a nice area to sit, have some food, listen to some music and have a few beers. We really enjoyed it.

I guess we're off to Mae Sai tomorrow and head across the border for a few hours of looking around. Then back to Bangkok. Bummer. CR is a very pretty town. We'll have to come back and do a bit more exploring.

CM is more crowded. More touristy. More people. But also, more restaurants, more bars, more temples, etc. CR is more laid back, but still a lot to do. I think both places have plenty to do outside of town. Which is what we'll focus on during our next trip. Great fun here! We liked both towns.

We went to the CR night market, both of them. The "Thai" one was just OK, but good food. Typical Thai stuff. The tourist one was quite nice. Still the typical tourist stuff, but had a nice area to sit, have some food, listen to some music and have a few beers. We really enjoyed it.

I guess we're off to Mae Sai tomorrow and head across the border for a few hours of looking around. Then back to Bangkok. Bummer. CR is a very pretty town. We'll have to come back and do a bit more exploring.

CM is more crowded. More touristy. More people. But also, more restaurants, more bars, more temples, etc. CR is more laid back, but still a lot to do. I think both places have plenty to do outside of town. Which is what we'll focus on during our next trip. Great fun here! We liked both towns.

I agree that both towns have their own appeal and it is so nice that you don’t insist that one is better than the other, they are just different. Great report and nice to hear what others think of our part of Thailand.

I would skip the smoky season but you might try the rainy season sometime. Most people are afraid of the rain but it really is the most beautiful time of year and the sky is remarkable after a storm.

If you wife like streets markets, like mine, will be a good idea to change your plans to stay Sunday in Chiang Mai for the Tha Pae Gate market. The other option is the Saturday night market at the Chiang Mai Gate by the Silver Temple (Wat Sisupan). Better to get there before 5:30PM...too busy after.

The only problem you may face: After visiting Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai, you may not want to live in any other place in Thailand....

We went to the CR night market, both of them. The "Thai" one was just OK, but good food. Typical Thai stuff. The tourist one was quite nice. Still the typical tourist stuff, but had a nice area to sit, have some food, listen to some music and have a few beers. We really enjoyed it.

I guess we're off to Mae Sai tomorrow and head across the border for a few hours of looking around. Then back to Bangkok. Bummer. CR is a very pretty town. We'll have to come back and do a bit more exploring.

CM is more crowded. More touristy. More people. But also, more restaurants, more bars, more temples, etc. CR is more laid back, but still a lot to do. I think both places have plenty to do outside of town. Which is what we'll focus on during our next trip. Great fun here! We liked both towns.

Having done way too many night markets all over Thailand I find that I much prefer the Sunday night CR walking street over the Saturday night version. Much less crowded and many times there are less than 5 farangs at the Sunday version and it really is a very local Thai scene....there is also a nice place to sit at the Sunday event and a lot of the Thais get up and do sort of a line dance....The massage tent at the Sunday event is a wonderful place to lie down, get a great 140 baht massage and listen to the Thai music next door.

The Sat night version is just too crowded for my taste these days but everyone who visits might want to try both the Sat and Sun night versions. I am always semi amazed that little CR can and does support not one but two walking streets as well as a nightly food court near the old bus station not to mention the nightly clock tower show near jed yod road....and the vast majority of customers at all the events are Thai rather than farangs.

I have said many times that one thing about CR is that if not another tourist ever set foot in the town that very little would change as the locals would all just go about their lives as they were doing long before the first tourist arrived and will likely continue to do after the last farang has left. Sure there are a few who see farangs as walking ATM's but I find that to be the exception rather than the rule.

Glad you enjoyed our little town.

Just woke up from a great sleep after our long-arsed, Sunday drive to Udon and happy to see all these recommendations... very much appreciated. I have booked a set of wheels at CNX for tomorrow and we will be booking the flights this morning.

I will make some notes over morning coffee and build an itinerary to fit the recommendations given so far. I had already eyeballed the Doi Angkhang Nature Resort on agoda for the 'nuptials' and great to have an independent corroboration of it's romantic vibe. I think we have enough info for our shotgun tour of the north but this is all pretty dynamic so last-minute changes will prevail. Got my Garmin Nuvi and my hand-held GPS as well in case we get lost or if anyone has the coordinates of any 'off the beaten' track locales to pass on.

Thanks!

Mr & Mrs NL

If you missed the Clock Tower at 8 PM in downtown CR, then you missed something special. I'd make the trip from CM again sometime just to see, and this time, do a good video of that. Only went one time on my CBR, took me 4 hours, and I was exhausted by the time I got there, but it was worth it.

Recommend Charin Garden Resort on the CR - CM 118. CR side of Mae Suai. Good, inexpensive menu plus a great selection of dessert pies - eat in or take away.

Take your pick - apple, pineapple, macadamia, chocolate, lemon meringue, taro, cumquat - I'll stop now, my keyboard is getting clogged with saliva.

If you missed the Clock Tower at 8 PM in downtown CR, then you missed something special. I'd make the trip from CM again sometime just to see, and this time, do a good video of that. Only went one time on my CBR, took me 4 hours, and I was exhausted by the time I got there, but it was worth it.

Sorry...don't want to appear picky, but isn't it hourly from 7pm until ?12pm? in the tourist season?

If you missed the Clock Tower at 8 PM in downtown CR, then you missed something special. I'd make the trip from CM again sometime just to see, and this time, do a good video of that. Only went one time on my CBR, took me 4 hours, and I was exhausted by the time I got there, but it was worth it.

Sorry...don't want to appear picky, but isn't it hourly from 7pm until ?12pm? in the tourist season?

No

Just returned from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai trip this afternoon. In Chiang Mai I stayed at the Chiang Rai Hotel by the clock tower. I can never explain how nice this was. Great staff, great accommodations. Just around the corner from the hotel is a huge park with some of the most beautiful flowers you will ever see. 100 times better than the Flower Parade in Chiang Mai. Be sure to see the light show at the clock tower at 7, 8, or 9pm. Beautiful. Great coffee houses at this intersection also. Chiang Rai is small town America, but big enough to satisfy people that like bigger towns. Very much a family oriented town.

Do NOT, under any circumstances, stay at the Roongruang Hotel in Chiang Mai. Great location, and the worst hotel in the world. They will ruin your trip. Take a trip up to the palace. Beautiful. Mad Dog Pizza is very nice for falangs, as is Loco Elvis if you wish to have Mexican Food. Burrito place across the street might even be better. This is just inside the moat, just north of the Tha Pae Rd. gate. Great Thai food is everywhere.

I am guessing you will enjoy Chiang Rai more than Chiang Mai, but maybe not if you are just staying for one day on each.

Great tips all around.
I did spend time in Chiang Mai... the (not) girlfriend's family lives in one of the near villages. I hired a minibus and driver for five days, (hope we were not the ones nearly wiped the rider out!). I saw so many wonderful things in such a short time, I need to sit down and recollect who, what, and where with the aid of the photos.
The trip to the Myanmar border was memorable... there are sand bag and timber fortifications all about, and a few armed soldiers, etc. All is quiet these days, but a reminder that it is not always so.
I would recommend the San Kamphaeng Hot Springs at Moo 7, Baan Pong Hom | Ban Sahakorn, Mae On as a relaxing interlude.

Really no need to stay on the road since the distance to CM and CR is so minimal. The only reason I can think is if you do national parks and trying to minimize time in the city proper...

CB

Got back home last night. Bummer as there is just soooo many great things to see. We loved our (short) trip! Can't wait to go back. A few more thoughts:

We had dinner here: http://www.chiangdaonest.com/nest2resort.htm

It was OK, not great, but the setting is stunning. I think dinner here with an overnight then on up north (or south) the next day would be great.

We went to Mae Sai for a bit of shopping across the border. Some pretty good deals there. Our shopping in Pattaya is really limited, so it was great to stock up on some nice shorts, shirts, and booze! 55555 Love the prices there....

On time flights and on the road a little after 10 AM, we reached Phufatara Resort around lunchtime. It's about 9 km south of the junction to Phayao on 118. Since we had an early start, we lazed around and napped until nearer 5 when we popped into Mae Kachan to get some necessities. On return to the digs, we found their kitchen closed a 6 PM weekdays so when we got peckish, we popped back into town and had a really excellent 4 plate (big servings, no beer) meal for two for 475 baht at a place on the main road called 'Sohmpak' that had a view of the distant floodlit chedi at Wat Phrathat Mon Phrachao Lai.

Good start... we are both enjoying our first honeymoon in places neither of us have been before.

Avoid the white brown temple in CR, it's been soiled by the Chinese.