Japan's Abe urges Thailand to return soon to civilian rule

[bobmac10]

I think some people missed this part of Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe statement.

"Prime Minister Prayut is making his best effort to recover democracy in Thailand," Abe told a joint press conference.

In other words he knew that their was no Democracy in Thailand prior to Prayut's take over of the Shinawatra dictatorship. It also indicates that he knows Prayut is making an effort to bring Democracy back to Thailand. He knows full well that after the elections Thailand will be run by an elected official not some criminal running from the law and living in a foreign country.

Oh er.... brilliant observation John, so this elected government you speak of ...........that would be including the unelected bloc of appointed senators?

How would I know. They are still in the early stagers of planning. the one thing I do know is what ever they do unless they check with you first you will find fault in. I also know it will be far more Democratic than the last government that was run by a criminal who was wanted in Thailand to serve time in jail on a conviction.

I am actually elated to see the anti coup protesters reduced to petty nit picking that we have no idea of what will be the final finished project. Even if they do have unelected Senators I believe that is what Canada has and they call them selves a Democracy.

Fact is to the best of my knowledge there are no Democracies in the west.

So this bubble you live in... is where?

Protests are banned John.

Criticism is banned John.

Free speech is banned John.

So how will we ever know what the Thai people think or want?

Anyway, as long as you are happy with the way things are, out there wherever you are.

[asiamaster]

I would urge Japan's Abe to return to their peaceful constitution.....

[2fishin2]

I think some people missed this part of Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe statement.

"Prime Minister Prayut is making his best effort to recover democracy in Thailand," Abe told a joint press conference.

In other words he knew that their was no Democracy in Thailand prior to Prayut's take over of the Shinawatra dictatorship. It also indicates that he knows Prayut is making an effort to bring Democracy back to Thailand. He knows full well that after the elections Thailand will be run by an elected official not some criminal running from the law and living in a foreign country.

How do you get all those assumptions out of a simple 13 word sentence?

[TheDiva]

I think some people missed this part of Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe statement.

"Prime Minister Prayut is making his best effort to recover democracy in Thailand," Abe told a joint press conference.

In other words he knew that their was no Democracy in Thailand prior to Prayut's take over of the Shinawatra dictatorship. It also indicates that he knows Prayut is making an effort to bring Democracy back to Thailand. He knows full well that after the elections Thailand will be run by an elected official not some criminal running from the law and living in a foreign country.

So there's no chance he was pointing out there no democracy here at present since the country is under martial law imposed by a military junta that took power through a coup ?

Very democratic i don't think but don't get confused, i was no fan of the previous regime either.

You got it he knows there is no democracy here and that Prayut is working towards one. He also knows there was no Democracy here under Thaksin and that what Prayut is working for is to bring one back to Thailand.

I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.

Are you one of those who thought Thailand was a Democracy with Thaksin running it and therefore willing to let the country slide down hill and corruption increase. You will notice that Thailand has improved on the anti corruption scale taken by Amnesty International for 2014.

I presume you mean the Transparency International Corruption Perception Index when referring to the improvement "on the anti corruption scale"? if so it may be worth noting that the figures for the 2014 Index were compiled prior to July 2014.

If you meant to imply that the junta are responsible for that improvement in corruption perception, I would suggest that it's a bit of a leap of faith to believe that two months of military rule in the early stages of the coup had much influence on the results.

[MiKT]

I think some people missed this part of Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe statement.

"Prime Minister Prayut is making his best effort to recover democracy in Thailand," Abe told a joint press conference.

In other words he knew that their was no Democracy in Thailand prior to Prayut's take over of the Shinawatra dictatorship. It also indicates that he knows Prayut is making an effort to bring Democracy back to Thailand. He knows full well that after the elections Thailand will be run by an elected official not some criminal running from the law and living in a foreign country.

What are on?

What a load of crap.

What he knows is that he is doing his very best to fix the election process so that true democracy cannot return to Thailand.

[Mr Yim]

I think some people missed this part of Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe statement.

"Prime Minister Prayut is making his best effort to recover democracy in Thailand," Abe told a joint press conference.

In other words he knew that their was no Democracy in Thailand prior to Prayut's take over of the Shinawatra dictatorship. It also indicates that he knows Prayut is making an effort to bring Democracy back to Thailand. He knows full well that after the elections Thailand will be run by an elected official not some criminal running from the law and living in a foreign country.

So there's no chance he was pointing out there no democracy here at present since the country is under martial law imposed by a military junta that took power through a coup ?

Very democratic i don't think but don't get confused, i was no fan of the previous regime either.

You got it he knows there is no democracy here and that Prayut is working towards one. He also knows there was no Democracy here under Thaksin and that what Prayut is working for is to bring one back to Thailand.

I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.

Are you one of those who thought Thailand was a Democracy with Thaksin running it and therefore willing to let the country slide down hill and corruption increase. You will notice that Thailand has improved on the anti corruption scale taken by Amnesty International for 2014.

Did the PTP not win an election? Some people have a very strange idea of democracy.

[cumgranosalum]

i wonder if the current goverment will notice that they are at odds with many other countries - most of whom have been long-term allies and business associates

[IAMHERE]

Is Shinzo Abe really a lover of civilian rule, or is he some other country's sock puppet?

Not sure, but I'd guess that within one generation the Chinese will be telling him which hand to use after number two.

[NeilSA1]

So there's no chance he was pointing out there no democracy here at present since the country is under martial law imposed by a military junta that took power through a coup ?

Very democratic i don't think but don't get confused, i was no fan of the previous regime either.

You got it he knows there is no democracy here and that Prayut is working towards one. He also knows there was no Democracy here under Thaksin and that what Prayut is working for is to bring one back to Thailand.

I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.

Are you one of those who thought Thailand was a Democracy with Thaksin running it and therefore willing to let the country slide down hill and corruption increase. You will notice that Thailand has improved on the anti corruption scale taken by Amnesty International for 2014.

Did the PTP not win an election? Some people have a very strange idea of democracy.

Yes, and then thought that they were 'all powerful' and above the law and therefore had no need to behave democratically. Among other things, they tried to push through an amnesty bill, to clear YL's brother, used voting cards belonging to other PTP members, practiced nepotism etc. Some people do have a very strange idea of democracy.

.

[Roadman]

I think some people missed this part of Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe statement.

"Prime Minister Prayut is making his best effort to recover democracy in Thailand," Abe told a joint press conference.

In other words he knew that their was no Democracy in Thailand prior to Prayut's take over of the Shinawatra dictatorship. It also indicates that he knows Prayut is making an effort to bring Democracy back to Thailand. He knows full well that after the elections Thailand will be run by an elected official not some criminal running from the law and living in a foreign country.

So there's no chance he was pointing out there no democracy here at present since the country is under martial law imposed by a military junta that took power through a coup ?

Very democratic i don't think but don't get confused, i was no fan of the previous regime either.

You got it he knows there is no democracy here and that Prayut is working towards one. He also knows there was no Democracy here under Thaksin and that what Prayut is working for is to bring one back to Thailand.

I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.

Are you one of those who thought Thailand was a Democracy with Thaksin running it and therefore willing to let the country slide down hill and corruption increase. You will notice that Thailand has improved on the anti corruption scale taken by Amnesty International for 2014.

I presume you mean the Transparency International Corruption Perception Index when referring to the improvement "on the anti corruption scale"? if so it may be worth noting that the figures for the 2014 Index were compiled prior to July 2014.

If you meant to imply that the junta are responsible for that improvement in corruption perception, I would suggest that it's a bit of a leap of faith to believe that two months of military rule in the early stages of the coup had much influence on the results.

Incorrect. Several of the various scources that make up the index when well beyond July 2014. Several of them were being indexed right up to a month or so before the CP 2014 were released. In the debate on this site a day or two after the CP was released I summarised that report. It is on this site or you can do your own homework and go to the CP site yourself and open up each of the indexes and see for yourself that some were running later than July.

Also the obvious is for the previous years under the Puppet Yingluck the index showed corruption increasing. So it is not a leap of faith but reality that something dramatically changed the corruption levels. And it sure as hell wasn't Santa Claus.

[northernjohn]

Oh er.... brilliant observation John, so this elected government you speak of ...........that would be including the unelected bloc of appointed senators?

How would I know. They are still in the early stagers of planning. the one thing I do know is what ever they do unless they check with you first you will find fault in. I also know it will be far more Democratic than the last government that was run by a criminal who was wanted in Thailand to serve time in jail on a conviction.

I am actually elated to see the anti coup protesters reduced to petty nit picking that we have no idea of what will be the final finished project. Even if they do have unelected Senators I believe that is what Canada has and they call them selves a Democracy.

Fact is to the best of my knowledge there are no Democracies in the west.

So this bubble you live in... is where?

Protests are banned John.

Criticism is banned John.

Free speech is banned John.

So how will we ever know what the Thai people think or want?

Anyway, as long as you are happy with the way things are, out there wherever you are.

Beats the living crap out of what we had. For your sake I hope you were not happy with that. As for myself I am happy because at long last Thailand is moving forward on the political front.

First it was a PM using all his power to enrich himself illegally. He also imposed sanctions on what the press was allowed to print as well as sanctioning indiscriminate killings under the guise of a war on drugs Then it was a coup followed by two governments in the pay of the ousted PM. Then it was a government that was attacked by armed killers in the pay of the aforementioned ousted PM (Thaksin) Then it was a government that was run by a convicted criminal living in self imposed exile out side the country and running it with his hired lackey's. Even making phone calls into the cabinet meetings when his shill was busy shopping and out on a photo op.

You certainly are an easy man to please. Myself I am happy to have hope for a better future in Thailand.

Yes I am happy that is all behind us. Might I sugesty you move to another country if that is the kind of government that turns your crank.

[bobmac10]

Oh er.... brilliant observation John, so this elected government you speak of ...........that would be including the unelected bloc of appointed senators?

How would I know. They are still in the early stagers of planning. the one thing I do know is what ever they do unless they check with you first you will find fault in. I also know it will be far more Democratic than the last government that was run by a criminal who was wanted in Thailand to serve time in jail on a conviction.

I am actually elated to see the anti coup protesters reduced to petty nit picking that we have no idea of what will be the final finished project. Even if they do have unelected Senators I believe that is what Canada has and they call them selves a Democracy.

Fact is to the best of my knowledge there are no Democracies in the west.

So this bubble you live in... is where?

Protests are banned John.

Criticism is banned John.

Free speech is banned John.

So how will we ever know what the Thai people think or want?

Anyway, as long as you are happy with the way things are, out there wherever you are.

Beats the living crap out of what we had. For your sake I hope you were not happy with that. As for myself I am happy because at long last Thailand is moving forward on the political front.

First it was a PM using all his power to enrich himself illegally. He also imposed sanctions on what the press was allowed to print as well as sanctioning indiscriminate killings under the guise of a war on drugs Then it was a coup followed by two governments in the pay of the ousted PM. Then it was a government that was attacked by armed killers in the pay of the aforementioned ousted PM (Thaksin) Then it was a government that was run by a convicted criminal living in self imposed exile out side the country and running it with his hired lackey's. Even making phone calls into the cabinet meetings when his shill was busy shopping and out on a photo op.

You certainly are an easy man to please. Myself I am happy to have hope for a better future in Thailand.

Yes I am happy that is all behind us. Might I sugesty you move to another country if that is the kind of government that turns your crank.

Well, John, talk about easy to please.

I heard Hitler got the trains to run on time, sort of stuff that would make you happy.

Pity anyone with a dissenting view of what's happening. Attitude Adjustment....... who knows what that entails.

Some people have yet to reappear.

Is that all right with you too?

This how facists prosper, by selling efficiency for human rights and passing it off as progress.

You just hope their gaze doesn't turn towards farange living here.

Your feet wouldn't touch the ground, you'd be on the next plane home.

[northernjohn]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

i wonder if the current goverment will notice that they are at odds with many other countries - most of whom have been long-term allies and business associates

Yes they are aware of it. Are you aware of the fact that these other countries are afraid of what an honest government in Thailand would do to them? Another deduction I have made is that Japan is not afraid of them.

I think some people missed this part of Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe statement.

"Prime Minister Prayut is making his best effort to recover democracy in Thailand," Abe told a joint press conference.

In other words he knew that their was no Democracy in Thailand prior to Prayut's take over of the Shinawatra dictatorship. It also indicates that he knows Prayut is making an effort to bring Democracy back to Thailand. He knows full well that after the elections Thailand will be run by an elected official not some criminal running from the law and living in a foreign country.

How do you get all those assumptions out of a simple 13 word sentence?

By thinking and knowing what has been going on. I am not new to Thailand. I have been coming over here since 2005. Living here permanently for at least 4 years. I was here for the red shirt attempted coup and visiting during the Yellow shirt fiasco where they took over the airport.

Edited February 10, 2015 by northernjohn

[metisdead]

Please use discretion in your references to the government. Phrases which can be considered as anti-coup will be removed. Referring to Thailand or the government as a dictatorship, military dictatorship or other such terms will be removed.

[2fishin2]

Yeah ok its a far stretch all those assumptions out of such a few words....

[baboon]

[quote name="northernjohn" post="9053570"

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[quote name="northernjohn" post="9050833"

By thinking and knowing what has been going on. I am not new to Thailand. I have been coming over here since 2005. Living here permanently for at least 4 years. I was here for the red shirt attempted coup and visiting during the Yellow shirt fiasco where they took over the airport.

It most certainly is not a competition, but yes you are new to Thailand.

Edited February 10, 2015 by baboon

[wwest5829]

Is Shinzo Abe really a lover of civilian rule, or is he some other country's sock puppet?

Surely he'll demand free elections and democracy in Saudi Arabia next. No double standards, or?

To all those who have noted double standards...well, you are correct. However, the U.S. is not the only one that appears to do this. For example, where is Thailand's voice, as a potential leading country of ASEAN, opposing the unilateral declaration of China owning 80-90% of the South China Sea? Quiet because of needed political and economic support?

Here is a point to consider. The U.S. Is rightfully criticized, in part, because the world expects and hopes for better from the U.S. I would submit that the U.S. expects and hopes for better for Thailand, than it does some other countries that make no claim to being a democracy. We need be careful with surrounding ourselves with only those who will not advise against some actions we might take. True friends will speak up, at first privately, and then public ally to argue against what they feel are wrongful steps.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"I promise I will build a healthy democracy in Thailand."

I believe you and trust you will do Prime Minister.

I'm looking forward living the rest of my life in a better Thailand.

You will need the rest of your life for such hopes.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I think some people missed this part of Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe statement.

"Prime Minister Prayut is making his best effort to recover democracy in Thailand," Abe told a joint press conference.

In other words he knew that their was no Democracy in Thailand prior to Prayut's take over of the Shinawatra dictatorship. It also indicates that he knows Prayut is making an effort to bring Democracy back to Thailand. He knows full well that after the elections Thailand will be run by an elected official not some criminal running from the law and living in a foreign country. width=25 alt=thumbsup.gif>

You can't bring back what Thailand never had and you can't create something out of nothing which is what Thailand has now.

[rijb]

Is Shinzo Abe really a lover of civilian rule, or is he some other country's sock puppet?

Surely he'll demand free elections and democracy in Saudi Arabia next. No double standards, or?

What do 'standards' have to do with world affairs? Time to grow up.

[rickirs]

Technically, the constitutional monarchies of Japan and Thailand should operate with similar constitutions and rule of law. So it must perplex General Prayuth that Japan does not impose martial law on its peoples nor experience any military coups. While he is busy asking other countries to understand the Junta's roadmap to democracy, perhaps he should take the time to understand how the other constitutional monarchies throughout the world achieve democracy without repeated military intervention and peacefully deal with diverse political conflicts.

[TheDiva]

Incorrect. Several of the various scources that make up the index when well beyond July 2014. Several of them were being indexed right up to a month or so before the CP 2014 were released. In the debate on this site a day or two after the CP was released I summarised that report. It is on this site or you can do your own homework and go to the CP site yourself and open up each of the indexes and see for yourself that some were running later than July.

Also the obvious is for the previous years under the Puppet Yingluck the index showed corruption increasing. So it is not a leap of faith but reality that something dramatically changed the corruption levels. And it sure as hell wasn't Santa Claus.

You may well have summarised the report a day or two after the the Corruption perception Index but you must have misread, or didn't read, the sources. There were 12 sources for the 2014 Corruption Perception Index. I list them along with the relevant dates the data was collected within;

1. African Development Bank Governance Ratings 2013

The 2013 Governance Ratings were compiled during 2013 and published in March 2014.

2. Bertelsmann Foundation Sustainable Governance Indicators 2014

The Sustainable Governance Indicators 2014 were published in March 2014

3. Bertelsmann Foundation Transformation Index

The data is taken from the BTI 2014 report, published in January 2014, and data is publicly available

online. It assesses a two-year period from 1 February 2011 to 31 January 2013.

4. Economist Intelligence Unit Country Risk Ratings

The CPI draws on the most recent data available between the period Jan 2014 to August 2014 for 120

countries and data from 2013 was used for 23 countries. - Unfortunately I am not a subscriber so I cannot ascertain whether Thailand was one of those countries assessed in 2014 or based on data from 2013 - You presumably have access to this information, perhaps you could share it?

5. Freedom House Nations in Transit 2014

The 2014 Nations in Transit data coverage is from 1 January through 31 December 2013.

6. Global Insight Country Risk Ratings

The data for the CPI 2014 was received in July 2014.

7. IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook 2014

The 2014 data was gathered between January and April 2014, and published in May 2014

8. Political and Economic Risk Consultancy 2014

The data used for the CPI 2014 was gathered in a survey carried out between November 2013 and

March 2014 and published in March 2014.

9. Political Risk Services International Country Risk Guide

The CPI 2014 data is an aggregate of quarterly assessments covering the period of August 2013 to

August 2014.

10. World Bank Country Policy and Institutional Assessment 2013

The ratings process typically starts in the fall and is concluded in the spring of the following year. The

scores disclosed in June 2014 (the 2013 CPIA exercise) cover 2013 country performance.

11. World Economic Forum Executive Opinion Survey (EOS) 2014

The data was gathered in a survey conducted between January and June 2014.

12. World Justice Project Rule of Law Index 2014

Data for computing this index was collected between Spring 2011 and Autumn 2013.

This information can be readily accessed here http://files.transparency.org/content/download/1842/12378/file/2014_CPISources_EN.pdf

To sum up, 10 of the 12 sources pre-date July 2014, one source (No.4 from The Economist) may be based on data collected between January and August 2014 (but no way of telling unless one has a subscription to the Economist ) and the second source (No.9) is an aggregate of quarterly reports between August 2013 and August 2014.

As I said, it takes a leap of faith to believe that the Junta is responsible for the improved rating of Perception of Corruption Index for Thailand.

Edited February 10, 2015 by TheDiva

[northernjohn]

How would I know. They are still in the early stagers of planning. the one thing I do know is what ever they do unless they check with you first you will find fault in. I also know it will be far more Democratic than the last government that was run by a criminal who was wanted in Thailand to serve time in jail on a conviction.

I am actually elated to see the anti coup protesters reduced to petty nit picking that we have no idea of what will be the final finished project. Even if they do have unelected Senators I believe that is what Canada has and they call them selves a Democracy.

Fact is to the best of my knowledge there are no Democracies in the west.

So this bubble you live in... is where?

Protests are banned John.

Criticism is banned John.

Free speech is banned John.

So how will we ever know what the Thai people think or want?

Anyway, as long as you are happy with the way things are, out there wherever you are.

Beats the living crap out of what we had. For your sake I hope you were not happy with that. As for myself I am happy because at long last Thailand is moving forward on the political front.

First it was a PM using all his power to enrich himself illegally. He also imposed sanctions on what the press was allowed to print as well as sanctioning indiscriminate killings under the guise of a war on drugs Then it was a coup followed by two governments in the pay of the ousted PM. Then it was a government that was attacked by armed killers in the pay of the aforementioned ousted PM (Thaksin) Then it was a government that was run by a convicted criminal living in self imposed exile out side the country and running it with his hired lackey's. Even making phone calls into the cabinet meetings when his shill was busy shopping and out on a photo op.

You certainly are an easy man to please. Myself I am happy to have hope for a better future in Thailand.

Yes I am happy that is all behind us. Might I sugesty you move to another country if that is the kind of government that turns your crank.

Well, John, talk about easy to please.

I heard Hitler got the trains to run on time, sort of stuff that would make you happy.

Pity anyone with a dissenting view of what's happening. Attitude Adjustment....... who knows what that entails.

Some people have yet to reappear.

Is that all right with you too?

This how facists prosper, by selling efficiency for human rights and passing it off as progress.

You just hope their gaze doesn't turn towards farange living here.

Your feet wouldn't touch the ground, you'd be on the next plane home.

You seem a little confused you seem to be relating Hitler who was elected to Thailand with it's non elected PM.

As I said earlier if you like the government we had their are other countries like them some worse. Up to you. I prefer hope to what we had.

[kevvy]

"I promise I will build a healthy democracy in Thailand."

I believe you and trust you will do Prime Minister.

I'm looking forward living the rest of my life in a better Thailand.

All the way with you Costas 2008 ...

[cumgranosalum]

Technically, the constitutional monarchies of Japan and Thailand should operate with similar constitutions and rule of law. So it must perplex General Prayuth that Japan does not impose martial law on its peoples nor experience any military coups. While he is busy asking other countries to understand the Junta's roadmap to democracy, perhaps he should take the time to understand how the other constitutional monarchies throughout the world achieve democracy without repeated military intervention and peacefully deal with diverse political conflicts.

Pity one can't like a post twice! Couldn't agree more.

[jayboy]

Technically, the constitutional monarchies of Japan and Thailand should operate with similar constitutions and rule of law. So it must perplex General Prayuth that Japan does not impose martial law on its peoples nor experience any military coups. While he is busy asking other countries to understand the Junta's roadmap to democracy, perhaps he should take the time to understand how the other constitutional monarchies throughout the world achieve democracy without repeated military intervention and peacefully deal with diverse political conflicts.

Pity one can't like a post twice! Couldn't agree more.

To be fair in living memory Japan had a military which was completely out of control and dominated or totally controlled the civilian government.As in Thailand there were many who gave overt or implicit support to these fascist brutes.It took a disastrous war and utter humiliation to get rid of the military's political influence - now of course as in all civilised countries completely under the control of politicians elected democratically.As it happens most Japanese give credit to the U.S. for assisting this process including the extraordinarily enlightened occupation headed by General MacArthur.

[issanaus]

Technically, the constitutional monarchies of Japan and Thailand should operate with similar constitutions and rule of law. So it must perplex General Prayuth that Japan does not impose martial law on its peoples nor experience any military coups. While he is busy asking other countries to understand the Junta's roadmap to democracy, perhaps he should take the time to understand how the other constitutional monarchies throughout the world achieve democracy without repeated military intervention and peacefully deal with diverse political conflicts.

Practically they are very different countries. Japan had a samurai tradition of discipline which has been passed down through the more recent (but disappearing) concept of the company man. Japan has a post WW2 history of complying with its constitution. Japan was dragged into WW2 by the samurais in the military and business The loss of face that the defeat and occupation caused was enough to ensure that military (self defence force) would not occur.

What must perplex the Japanese is the disregard for the Thai constitutions and rule of law by the 'elected" governments of Thailand over the last 10 years.