Transgender Thai model appeals to NHRC over alleged ban from pub

[Jingthing]

Thailand isn't the west and we all know there is denial of service discrimination at some Thai businesses. So if there are no legal issues with that (there doesn't seem to be) then certainly there are still ethical issues. Not only talking about transgenders either.

[Alwyn]

I appreciate the banning of dogs, and cats, for that matter, in hotels, and durian does smell. But I think the transgender person, man or woman, should not be disallowed entry into a venue just because of their sexual orientation. How did the bouncer know she was transgender anyway?

The bouncer knew because he has eyes in his head. Did you not see the photo of him?

She's hot and Id rather look at her than most of the old, fat, wrinkled, bald headed antagonistic TV members who are so quick to judge people from behind their computer keyboards.

Says the person judging the TV members from behind his own computer keyboard

[2fishin2]

I appreciate the banning of dogs, and cats, for that matter, in hotels, and durian does smell. But I think the transgender person, man or woman, should not be disallowed entry into a venue just because of their sexual orientation. How did the bouncer know she was transgender anyway?

The bouncer knew because he has eyes in his head. Did you not see the photo of him?

She's hot and Id rather look at her than most of the old, fat, wrinkled, bald headed antagonistic TV members who are so quick to judge people from behind their computer keyboards.

Says the person judging the TV members from behind his own computer keyboard

Hahahha all I Said is shes hot and id rather look at her than fat old bald guys....hows that being judgmental?

[Johnnie99]

I appreciate the banning of dogs, and cats, for that matter, in hotels, and durian does smell. But I think the transgender person, man or woman, should not be disallowed entry into a venue just because of their sexual orientation. How did the bouncer know she was transgender anyway?

Did you see the picture?

I am not one to criticise of course but even a blind man living in Nova Scotia could tell that ... 'the person' didn't start out life as a female of the species. I'm not saying she's ugly but the milk in my coffee curdled when I opened this article.

[Johnnie99]

I appreciate the banning of dogs, and cats, for that matter, in hotels, and durian does smell. But I think the transgender person, man or woman, should not be disallowed entry into a venue just because of their sexual orientation. How did the bouncer know she was transgender anyway?

Did you see the picture?

I am not one to criticise of course but even a blind man living in Nova Scotia could tell that ... 'the person' didn't start out life as a female of the species. I'm not saying she's ugly but the milk in my coffee curdled when I opened this article.

Damn, I am witty today.

[Bluespunk]

I appreciate the banning of dogs, and cats, for that matter, in hotels, and durian does smell. But I think the transgender person, man or woman, should not be disallowed entry into a venue just because of their sexual orientation. How did the bouncer know she was transgender anyway?

Did you see the picture?

I am not one to criticise of course but even a blind man living in Nova Scotia could tell that ... 'the person' didn't start out life as a female of the species. I'm not saying she's ugly but the milk in my coffee curdled when I opened this article.

Damn, I am witty today.

“There's a hell of a distance between wise-cracking and wit. Wit has truth in it; wise-cracking is simply calisthenics with words."

[Interview, The Paris Review, Summer 1956]”

― Dorothy Parker

[rickirs]

This is rubbish, where ever there are humans there is crime, lets say-- men, women, Thai, English Indian,Muslim, cahtolic christian, black, white, bloody green if you wish. Why would this person be a threat? Transgender , model or not, in this country and the everyday goings on I really can't see the problem here. The Pub is wrong...........

Privately owned and operated I guess they fell they can admit whomever they wish

Maybe the owners didn't understand the term "equality."

Article 4 of the Interim Charter recognizes "human dignity, rights, liberties and EQUALITY of the Thais."

Similiarly,

Article 4 of the 2007 Constitutionstates, "The human dignity, right, liberty and equality of the people shall be protected."

[elenajkelly]

It saddens me to see so much ignorance of transgender people. A man wearing a dress is a cross-dresser, not a transgender person. Transgender women are not cross-dressers or drag queens. Drag queens are men, typically gay men, who dress like women for the purpose of entertainment. Transgender is an umbrella term for people whose gender identity differs from what is typically associated with the sex they were assigned at birth. Gender identity is someone's internal, personal sense of being a man or a woman (or as someone outside of that gender binary). For transgender people, the sex they were assigned at birth and their own internal gender identity do not match. Trying to change a person's gender identity is no more successful than trying to change a person's sexual orientation -- it doesn't work. So most transgender people seek to bring their bodies more into alignment with their gender identity.People under the transgender umbrella may describe themselves using one (or more) of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, and genderqueer. Transgender people may or may not alter their bodies hormonally and/or surgically, but it's important to know that being transgender is not dependent upon medical procedures.Transgender is an adjective and should never be used as a noun. Rather than saying "Max is a transgender," say "Max is a transgender person." And transgender never needs an "-ed" at the end.

Transgender people face staggering levels of discrimination and violence. In 2012, 53% of anti-LGBT homicide victims were transgender women. According to "Injustice at Every Turn," a report by the (USA) National Center for Transgender Equality and The Task Force:

Transgender people are four times more likely to live in poverty.

Transgender people experience unemployment at twice the rate of the general population, with rates for people of color up to four times the national unemployment rate.

90% of transgender people report experiencing harassment, mistreatment or discrimination on the job.

22% of respondents who have interacted with police reported harassment by police, with much higher rates reported by people of color. Almost half of the respondents (46%) reported being uncomfortable seeking police assistance.

41% of respondents reported attempting suicide, compared to 1.6% of the general population.

Transgender people, particularly transgender women of color, face shockingly high rates of murder, homelessness, and incarceration. Most states and countries offer no legal protections in housing, employment, health care, and other areas where individuals experience discrimination based on their gender identity or expression.

There is such a long history of violence against members of the transgender community so that hiding this key part of their identity isn’t just about keeping a secret, but sometimes literally about staying alive. And when we publicly push them to self-disclose, we are being the worst type of bullies.

“On a daily basis, transgender people face unwelcome and often hostile scrutiny at school, at work, or even when just walking down the street,” says Nick Adams, a transgender staff member at GLAAD. “Creating an atmosphere in which people who may or may not be transgender are stalked and hounded sends a poisonous message that being transgender is something strange and shameful, a dirty secret to be uncovered. Real transgender people are harmed by this behavior.”

That little comment you make at the expense of a transgender person might get some laughs from your friends, but it also just might contribute to the death of a transgender kid, be it suicide or murder at the hands of those who choose to express their transphobia through homicide. When you become an ally of transgender people, your actions and words will help make society a better, safer place for transgender people – and for non-transgender people who violate gender expectations.

[halloween]

I appreciate the banning of dogs, and cats, for that matter, in hotels, and durian does smell. But I think the transgender person, man or woman, should not be disallowed entry into a venue just because of their sexual orientation. How did the bouncer know she was transgender anyway?

He is neither blind or deaf.

[halloween]

I appreciate the banning of dogs, and cats, for that matter, in hotels, and durian does smell. But I think the transgender person, man or woman, should not be disallowed entry into a venue just because of their sexual orientation. How did the bouncer know she was transgender anyway?

The bouncer knew because he has eyes in his head. Did you not see the photo of him?

She's hot and Id rather look at her than most of the old, fat, wrinkled, bald headed antagonistic TV members who are so quick to judge people from behind their computer keyboards.

I was wondering who among us was wanking to lady-boy porn.

[2fishin2]

Better than fat bald retired guys sitting on barstools.

[DLock]

I used to take my pit bull to a dog park with my 4 other dogs.

One day, the Owner said that my pit bull could not come in, but the 4 other dogs could.

My pit bull was a well socialized dog, friendly and never caused and problems. He had been at the park many times.

But the Owner said that when there are incidents with other dogs, most time, it is pit bulls that are the problem. He said that he knows some pit bulls are good dogs, and some pit bulls are bad dogs. But, rather than determine which pit bull is a well behaved dog, and which pit bulls aren't, it is easier to ban all of them.

Whilst I disagreed, and said it was unfair, it was his dog park and he had a responsibility to all the other visitors to the dog park, and I understood. I went to another dog park down the road.

You see what I did there?

[halloween]

I used to take my pit bull to a dog park with my 4 other dogs.

One day, the Owner said that my pit bull could not come in, but the 4 other dogs could.

My pit bull was a well socialized dog, friendly and never caused and problems. He had been at the park many times.

But the Owner said that when there are incidents with other dogs, most time, it is pit bulls that are the problem. He said that he knows some pit bulls are good dogs, and some pit bulls are bad dogs. But, rather than determine which pit bull is a well behaved dog, and which pit bulls aren't, it is easier to ban all of them.

Whilst I disagreed, and said it was unfair, it was his dog park and he had a responsibility to all the other visitors to the dog park, and I understood. I went to another dog park down the road.

You see what I did there?

Hopefully, you didn't have your pit-bull transgendered.

[Bluespunk]

I used to take my pit bull to a dog park with my 4 other dogs.

One day, the Owner said that my pit bull could not come in, but the 4 other dogs could.

My pit bull was a well socialized dog, friendly and never caused and problems. He had been at the park many times.

But the Owner said that when there are incidents with other dogs, most time, it is pit bulls that are the problem. He said that he knows some pit bulls are good dogs, and some pit bulls are bad dogs. But, rather than determine which pit bull is a well behaved dog, and which pit bulls aren't, it is easier to ban all of them.

Whilst I disagreed, and said it was unfair, it was his dog park and he had a responsibility to all the other visitors to the dog park, and I understood. I went to another dog park down the road.

You see what I did there?

Yes, you compared a human being, who has chosen to live their life in a manner of their choice, who is no different to any other human being aside from their life style choices, who was not behaving in a manner any different to anyone else in their party with a dog.

In the past such discrimination was also based on colour, faith and nationality. This type of prejudice is no better.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Bluespunk

[cookee68]

What's the problem, this is Thailand, there are pub's that ban black's, foreigners, Thai's, Japanese, Russian's the list is endless, They can do what they want if they own the pub, that is life in Thailand, like it or hate it.

[Bluespunk]

What's the problem, this is Thailand, there are pub's that ban black's, foreigners, Thai's, Japanese, Russian's the list is endless, They can do what they want if they own the pub, that is life in Thailand, like it or hate it.

Well, as it's a Thai citizen trying to get legal action taken against a Thai company for discriminating against them, I'd say that it's the Thai's who are highlighting the fact it's a problem.

Maybe, in their view, it's not how it should be in Thailand.

[DP25]

I generally don't like RCA these days, but this is making me rethink my stance. Too bad they don't tell us what club it is.

[kn100]

Go Sarina Thai!! Keep up the good work, you wonderful lady!

[The manic]

Sometimes I find it hard to spot a "transgender", especially after dusk, so the pub's bouncer must have very good trans-dar.

If you are interested in some serious TeeGee spotting, apparently the Nana Hotel car park is a favorite gathering place. Large herds of them can be seen after dusk, interspersed with the more common but smaller bodied Bee Gees. They are all there waiting to pounce on the bumbling Great White, large bellied Farang which are found in greater numbers across the road at the watering holes.

Good spotting old chap!

May I ask who is it you hate more or are more envious of? The lady boys, the free lance girls getting their rocks off for for money or the wealthy fat expats? Or is it the fun this mad milieu are having? Come and join us?

[2fishin2]

It saddens me to see so much ignorance of transgender people. A man wearing a dress is a cross-dresser, not a transgender person. Transgender women are not cross-dressers or drag queens. Drag queens are men, typically gay men, who dress like women for the purpose of entertainment. Transgender is an umbrella term for people whose gender identity differs from what is typically associated with the sex they were assigned at birth. Gender identity is someone's internal, personal sense of being a man or a woman (or as someone outside of that gender binary). For transgender people, the sex they were assigned at birth and their own internal gender identity do not match. Trying to change a person's gender identity is no more successful than trying to change a person's sexual orientation -- it doesn't work. So most transgender people seek to bring their bodies more into alignment with their gender identity.People under the transgender umbrella may describe themselves using one (or more) of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, and genderqueer. Transgender people may or may not alter their bodies hormonally and/or surgically, but it's important to know that being transgender is not dependent upon medical procedures.Transgender is an adjective and should never be used as a noun. Rather than saying "Max is a transgender," say "Max is a transgender person." And transgender never needs an "-ed" at the end.

Transgender people face staggering levels of discrimination and violence. In 2012, 53% of anti-LGBT homicide victims were transgender women. According to "Injustice at Every Turn," a report by the (USA) National Center for Transgender Equality and The Task Force:

Transgender people are four times more likely to live in poverty.

Transgender people experience unemployment at twice the rate of the general population, with rates for people of color up to four times the national unemployment rate.

90% of transgender people report experiencing harassment, mistreatment or discrimination on the job.

22% of respondents who have interacted with police reported harassment by police, with much higher rates reported by people of color. Almost half of the respondents (46%) reported being uncomfortable seeking police assistance.

41% of respondents reported attempting suicide, compared to 1.6% of the general population.

Transgender people, particularly transgender women of color, face shockingly high rates of murder, homelessness, and incarceration. Most states and countries offer no legal protections in housing, employment, health care, and other areas where individuals experience discrimination based on their gender identity or expression.

There is such a long history of violence against members of the transgender community so that hiding this key part of their identity isn’t just about keeping a secret, but sometimes literally about staying alive. And when we publicly push them to self-disclose, we are being the worst type of bullies.

“On a daily basis, transgender people face unwelcome and often hostile scrutiny at school, at work, or even when just walking down the street,” says Nick Adams, a transgender staff member at GLAAD. “Creating an atmosphere in which people who may or may not be transgender are stalked and hounded sends a poisonous message that being transgender is something strange and shameful, a dirty secret to be uncovered. Real transgender people are harmed by this behavior.”

That little comment you make at the expense of a transgender person might get some laughs from your friends, but it also just might contribute to the death of a transgender kid, be it suicide or murder at the hands of those who choose to express their transphobia through homicide. When you become an ally of transgender people, your actions and words will help make society a better, safer place for transgender people – and for non-transgender people who violate gender expectations.

For your indignation at other poor unfortunate souls..................100 marks!

For understanding the underlying concept of this post ...............not so many.

The OP used the word transgender on a Thai forum, I believe, because it is common usage here to refer to lady boys as transgender.

I believe that the OP was encapsulating the local usage in his report.

Therefore, the question which begs to be asked is............."are the lady boys here transgender or not"?

My observation is that most of them are gay men who dress up in order to make money from sex with other men as well as to rip off falangs.

Your observation would be incorrect....

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

This is rubbish, where ever there are humans there is crime, lets say-- men, women, Thai, English Indian,Muslim, cahtolic christian, black, white, bloody green if you wish. Why would this person be a threat? Transgender , model or not, in this country and the everyday goings on I really can't see the problem here. The Pub is wrong...........

Privately owned and operated I guess they fell they can admit whomever they wish

This is a very valid point.

I'm thinking back many decades, many, to when I started drinking in pubs, legally of course, and the situation was quite clear that the publican could refuse entry / service to whomever he wanted. Then came sex equality and some pubs tried to delay the inevitable by saying their toilets weren't suitable for ladies but they were told. to upgrade or lose their licences.

Then came PC and i have no idea how things are now. Does anyone know how such things work in LoS ?

If the club is serious about it, display a sign to the effect that the premises cannot accommodate for the transgender as bathroom facilities are not available.

And before you argue with the logic of that, does the club accommodate the normal physically handicapped? I would doubt it.....................

[cookee68]

What's the problem, this is Thailand, there are pub's that ban black's, foreigners, Thai's, Japanese, Russian's the list is endless, They can do what they want if they own the pub, that is life in Thailand, like it or hate it.

Well, as it's a Thai citizen trying to get legal action taken against a Thai company for discriminating against them, I'd say that it's the Thai's who are highlighting the fact it's a problem.

Maybe, in their view, it's not how it should be in Thailand.

Oh well best of luck, cant see anything changing to soon here.