rabid old goat Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) put this into the mix too. something that is being overlooked here. indo is muslim. Australia is actively involved in killing muslims elsewhere on the planet. muslim brotherhood exists. put that in your pipe and smoke it. the executions will go ahead. no i am atheist. i am just telling you the lie of the land which you seem to not see as important. Edited February 13, 2015 by rabid old goat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzra Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 This is to say that the Australian government is sending a message to all sovereign courtiers in the world that Australia don't give a damn what the law of the country is, we will protect our criminals, drug dealers drug runners murderers and thieves, by doing that, the Australian government also sending a message to all the Aussie criminals not to worry, and feel free to offend and flaunt the law where ever you're coz the Aussie government will bail you out,, nice one Australia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Indo is a dung hole, I use to boycott it but I would almost plan a trip if it wernt for the way the handled the Bali bombing terrorists. Can't get past that. Australia should give indo zip $$$$ in aid but that's got nothing to do with these two grotty convicted drug runners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mot Dang Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I am all for the tapping of major drug smugglers. But to my mind there is something wrong here. They have been on death-row now for 10 years, they were very young when caught (20 & 23, I think), and there is very good evidence they have very successfully reformed by setting up an education and support system for other prisoners. And don't forget, if the execution demand is withdrawn, they are not going free, they are still inside for life. I don't think Aussies will boycott Bali (the main holiday destination in Indonesia for Aussies), but if they did it would damage Bali's economy (as did the aftermath of the Bali bombings). After approx 35 years of Aussie tourism most Aussies know that the Balinese are not Indonesians, they are a very different people and don't deserve to be punished for Indonesia's blind willingness to execute these two men. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWorldwide Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 This is a war you and your fellow pseudo-legal hawks will never win, because it is on one side being ignored by people who want to do what they want to do and will do it no matter what you think is good for them. As a free human being like those that take drugs because they want to, I totally reject your attempts to control what myself or others do because "you" and others think it is wrong. You are a control freak from hell and I wish you would go back there and shut up about your mission and stupid war. Education is the only "rational" response to the pros and cons of any and all drug use. Get real, and <deleted> to you too. With rocks on. If every human on the planet was capable of taking drugs - be they 'legal' or otherwise - responsibly I wouldnt have a problem with that, but we both know that's not the case. Whether its alcohol or cocaine, the people who are often the most vocal in their opposition to any moves to make the drug more accessible are often reformed addicts - the people who couldnt handle 'too much of a good thing', frequently trashing their lives in the process. This is from the ABCs 4Corners in Oz, a program not known for sensationalist reporting. According to the program, the majority of ice addicts in Oz kicked off on heroin. How many of us would want to live in this world ? Ihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxKst8BaPbc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveAustin Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Typical Aussie attitude; if we can't win, we'll take our ball home with us. These people are drug smugglers and would have known the law in Indo, so tough titties I'm afraid. Does Indonesia ever speak up about the way Australia runs its affairs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyro Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 This pair have a different history to the normal tourist caught smuggling drugs to another country. They were the organisers and convinced 7 other gullible teenagers to strap heroin around their bodies to become rich. The other 7 are still serving time - why is no one trying to free them who were just stupid, not cold, calculating and manipulative criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck2 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I read the headline mistakenly (Drugged) Australians could boycott Indonesia over executions: FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWorldwide Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Typical Aussie attitude; if we can't win, we'll take our ball home with us. These people are drug smugglers and would have known the law in Indo, so tough titties I'm afraid. Does Indonesia ever speak up about the way Australia runs its affairs? They weren't happy with the live cattle fiasco, nor with the alleged attempt by the spooks in Canberra to monitor SBYs phone conversations. They've also never been terrifically keen on Australia's role in the ill-fated war on terror or the blatant grab for Timor's gas reserves post independence. The ABC claims that the relationship is actually better than what's portrayed in the mainstream media courtesy of 'back channels' - presumably business relationships and the ongoing aid programs in Indonesia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia–Indonesia_relations#Recent_relations 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camelot Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Plenty of Chinese and Russian tourists ready to take up the slack if some of the Aussies decide to abandon Bali and go elsewhere. A Bali boycott would also delight Thailand's tourism authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) This is to say that the Australian government is sending a message to all sovereign courtiers in the world that Australia don't give a damn what the law of the country is, we will protect our criminals, drug dealers drug runners murderers and thieves, by doing that, the Australian government also sending a message to all the Aussie criminals not to worry, and feel free to offend and flaunt the law where ever you're coz the Aussie government will bail you out,, nice one Australia... Wow, so many bitter angry people here. It seems Australia is just doing what every other country in the world would do for their own citizens. The question is not one of soveriegn laws of other countries. It's about 1. Does the punishment go against what Australia beleives to be appropriate civilized punishiment? (They would not be protesting if the punishment was only life imprisonment.) 2. Is the punishment political? There is evidence that this is political. Indonesia and Australia have a very long record of disagreement over many decades. Remember Indonesia gave some very leniant sentences to many of the people involved with the Bali bombing, nor was anyone ever brought to trial for the murders of 5 australian journalists in 1975. There is also the issue of Australia being sympathetic to separistist movements in various indonesian provinces, issues of accusation against indonesia for illegal immigration and human trafficking as well as australia spying on the conversation of the previous indo president. No this is not about stopping 2 minor drug players from destroying indonesian soceity. But it's more about what Indonesia can use to negotiate for more concessions from Australia. Finally, as Indonesia is the largest recipient of Australia foreign aid, Australia does have the right to question Indonesia concerning the welfare of Australians. Indonesia has exploited Australia's genorosity for too long. Edited February 14, 2015 by Time Traveller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Typical Aussie attitude; if we can't win, we'll take our ball home with us. These people are drug smugglers and would have known the law in Indo, so tough titties I'm afraid. Does Indonesia ever speak up about the way Australia runs its affairs? Australia standing up for its own citizens, which is only proper. They hypocracy in all of this is indonesia also advocated vigorously against the death penalty of its own citizens overseas. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 If they really wanted to save these guys they would pull the foreign aid we send them currently at 500 million per year, they are only scoring political points and playing the australian public . I wish. Fact is indonesia isn't a piddly backwater economy. As such$500m wouldn't be missed. Fact is Australia probably gets more benefit from this spend as it works to help australian interests in other areas like counter terrorism where there is scope for mutual cooperation and advantage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lawrence Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I don't agree with the state taking the lives of people. Why not the families or friends of these two condemn men pay compensation towards the Indonesian's. That is they contribute towards the cost of rehabilitation of addicts in Indonesia. I am sure that $100K to 250K would go a long way to helping in rehabilitation or campaigns to prevent drug use in Indonesia. The two could also be sent back to Australian Goals to spend the next 20+ years in goal, lessening the cost of their incarceration. These are alternatives, which will still ensure that these two scumbags serve time for the crime they have committed. The test is of egos. Unfortunately the Indonesian Leader has based his election on clamping down on crime. A 'hanging' or execution always boosts one's standing in the public’s eyes. But, for how long? Until the next execution? I just think Tony dumbdumb has not done all he can in the case of saving these two boys lives. Name calling in the press never impresses the Indonesians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZEMADE Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Typical Aussie attitude; if we can't win, we'll take our ball home with us. These people are drug smugglers and would have known the law in Indo, so tough titties I'm afraid. Does Indonesia ever speak up about the way Australia runs its affairs? They weren't happy with the live cattle fiasco, nor with the alleged attempt by the spooks in Canberra to monitor SBYs phone conversations. They've also never been terrifically keen on Australia's role in the ill-fated war on terror or the blatant grab for Timor's gas reserves post independence. The ABC claims that the relationship is actually better than what's portrayed in the mainstream media courtesy of 'back channels' - presumably business relationships and the ongoing aid programs in Indonesia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia–Indonesia_relations#Recent_relations Well here is a bit more for them to whinge about. American warships could be stationed permanently in Darwin as part of the United States military's strategic plan in the region, but an expert warns that will not sit well with China. Indonesia has also expressed their concern. https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/26286435/us-navy-ships-look-to-establish-darwin-military-base-but-china-wont-be-happy-warns-expert/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 What about Martin Anderson.....to be killed for 50 g of heroin 11 years ago.......no ghanian support no appeals filed.....fuvk the bali ni e whats up with this guy being swept away........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZEMADE Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 This pair have a different history to the normal tourist caught smuggling drugs to another country. They were the organisers and convinced 7 other gullible teenagers to strap heroin around their bodies to become rich. The other 7 are still serving time - why is no one trying to free them who were just stupid, not cold, calculating and manipulative criminals. And the King Pin who organised the Bali 9, won 5 million in the NSW Lottery. After he won he gave up the drug trade and went straight. he is known to NSW Police but they have nothing on him. Queensland barrister Sam Di Carlo represented one of the Australians arrested as part of the Bali six — another group of drug smugglers linked to Myuran Sukumaran— busted in Australia around the same time the Bali Nine were detained in April 2005. https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com.au%2Fworld%2Fasia%2Fwho-was-the-ringleader-behind-bali-nine-drug-smuggling-syndicate%2Fstory-fnh81fz8-1227215579634&ei=Gl_fVPCnFeW7mQX3yoHICg&usg=AFQjCNHMwPViAyoMrQz8rWnKa1-ivb1Fkw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 This pair have a different history to the normal tourist caught smuggling drugs to another country. They were the organisers and convinced 7 other gullible teenagers to strap heroin around their bodies to become rich. The other 7 are still serving time - why is no one trying to free them who were just stupid, not cold, calculating and manipulative criminals. And the King Pin who organised the Bali 9, won 5 million in the NSW Lottery. After he won he gave up the drug trade and went straight. he is known to NSW Police but they have nothing on him. Queensland barrister Sam Di Carlo represented one of the Australians arrested as part of the Bali six another group of drug smugglers linked to Myuran Sukumaran busted in Australia around the same time the Bali Nine were detained in April 2005. https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com.au%2Fworld%2Fasia%2Fwho-was-the-ringleader-behind-bali-nine-drug-smuggling-syndicate%2Fstory-fnh81fz8-1227215579634&ei=Gl_fVPCnFeW7mQX3yoHICg&usg=AFQjCNHMwPViAyoMrQz8rWnKa1-ivb1Fkw That's right, there's a lot more to this than meets the eye. These are bad people. Their execution is long overdue. Indo is doing Australia a favour but some Australians are too stupid to see it. I hope indo hurries up, so we can stop hearing about these two germs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I don't agree with the state taking the lives of people. Why not the families or friends of these two condemn men pay compensation towards the Indonesian's. That is they contribute towards the cost of rehabilitation of addicts in Indonesia. I am sure that $100K to 250K would go a long way to helping in rehabilitation or campaigns to prevent drug use in Indonesia. The two could also be sent back to Australian Goals to spend the next 20+ years in goal, lessening the cost of their incarceration. These are alternatives, which will still ensure that these two scumbags serve time for the crime they have committed. The test is of egos. Unfortunately the Indonesian Leader has based his election on clamping down on crime. A 'hanging' or execution always boosts one's standing in the publics eyes. But, for how long? Until the next execution? I just think Tony dumbdumb has not done all he can in the case of saving these two boys lives. Name calling in the press never impresses the Indonesians. I don't see why I should contribute through my taxes to pay 50-60 $ AUD per prisoner to have theses a.holes housed in a cruisy aussie prison for a crime committed overseas. End of. The Bali 9!all in for 20 years, factoring in increasing cost would amount to 15 million dollars and more. Seriously ? You must be joking. Thecsoonnthis excrement is wiped off the face of the earth the better off we all will be. Let is serve as a warning to folk that way inclined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabid old goat Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 hmm yes but you cant just sweep it under the carpet there and forget it, you also have to look at what it is about australian society that produces these type of people in such numbers. until you start addressing that issue it will just be an ever ongoing event. hmm but dont hold your breath on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZEMADE Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 hmm yes but you cant just sweep it under the carpet there and forget it, you also have to look at what it is about australian society that produces these type of people in such numbers. until you start addressing that issue it will just be an ever ongoing event. hmm but dont hold your breath on that one. Well it's not hard to work out, it's called quick money and lots of it if you can get away with it. However these people were caught and knowing what the penalties in that country were, took the risk and now have to pay the penalty. let this be a warning to others looking for the quick dollar. (DEATH) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lawrence Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I don't agree with the state taking the lives of people. Why not the families or friends of these two condemn men pay compensation towards the Indonesian's. That is they contribute towards the cost of rehabilitation of addicts in Indonesia. I am sure that $100K to 250K would go a long way to helping in rehabilitation or campaigns to prevent drug use in Indonesia. The two could also be sent back to Australian Goals to spend the next 20+ years in goal, lessening the cost of their incarceration. These are alternatives, which will still ensure that these two scumbags serve time for the crime they have committed. The test is of egos. Unfortunately the Indonesian Leader has based his election on clamping down on crime. A 'hanging' or execution always boosts one's standing in the publics eyes. But, for how long? Until the next execution? I just think Tony dumbdumb has not done all he can in the case of saving these two boys lives. Name calling in the press never impresses the Indonesians. I don't see why I should contribute through my taxes to pay 50-60 $ AUD per prisoner to have theses a.holes housed in a cruisy aussie prison for a crime committed overseas. End of. The Bali 9!all in for 20 years, factoring in increasing cost would amount to 15 million dollars and more. Seriously ? You must be joking. Thecsoonnthis excrement is wiped off the face of the earth the better off we all will be. Let is serve as a warning to folk that way inclined. So, what is the reason for the death penalty? What happened to the murder rates in the US when there was a moratorium on executions? Have a read of some of Diamond Jim's work on capital punishment. What has happened to the murder rate in Australia over the last 30+ years? What does it cost to put someone to death v's keeping a person in goal for the rest of their life? The last man executed in OZ; what happened to Bolte's political career? Neverdie, have a look at some of the facts. I once had a similar view on the death penalty, but when the facts presented that capital punishment did not prove a valid solution then I changed my view. I am not here to change how you think, but I still can express what I think. Most times it is cheaper to keep people in prison for the rest of their lives then it is to execute them. How much are we spending on these two at the moment? I didn't say bring the Bali 9 home. You did? Why would you do that? The op was only about these two men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 You mean bring the two ring leaders home and leave their victims in Bali ? You must be joking. I can't see how executing is financially more expensive than housing and feeding them. The indos will do it with a couple of bullets. $5. I'm only discussing it with you and I welcome ur opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 hmm yes but you cant just sweep it under the carpet there and forget it, you also have to look at what it is about australian society that produces these type of people in such numbers. until you start addressing that issue it will just be an ever ongoing event. hmm but dont hold your breath on that one. A picture tells a thousand words. Just look at their photos, you will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 hmm yes but you cant just sweep it under the carpet there and forget it, you also have to look at what it is about australian society that produces these type of people in such numbers. until you start addressing that issue it will just be an ever ongoing event. hmm but dont hold your breath on that one. Go on, do us less smart ones a favour and tell us what it is about australian society, instead of the usual dog whistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 You mean bring the two ring leaders home and leave their victims in Bali ? You must be joking. I can't see how executing is financially more expensive than housing and feeding them. The indos will do it with a couple of bullets. $5. I'm only discussing it with you and I welcome ur opinion. No one said to release them from prison or not to punish them. They are only saying don't execute them. And if everything comes down to money, then maybe you can tell us all how perhaps we should just execute the other financial drains on society like the disabled, the old, the sick, the unemployed. While we're at it perhaps we can also label them as parasites as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) put this into the mix too. something that is being overlooked here. indo is muslim. Australia is actively involved in killing muslims elsewhere on the planet. muslim brotherhood exists. put that in your pipe and smoke it. the executions will go ahead. no i am atheist. i am just telling you the lie of the land which you seem to not see as important. Indo has been fairly successful in suppressing Islamic extremism with local extremists killed or captured in the past ten years or so. A few weeks ago 5 foreigners were executed for drug offences from different countries that have no involvement in Syria and Iraq. In the coming weeks another group of foreigners are currently on course for execution. Indo in the largest receipient of foreign aid by Oz government, but DFAT had made it very clear in the bigger picture the the aid is in the Australia's national interest. In the not to distant future the Indo economy will surpass Australia; it's currently a G20 member country. Indo government has been successful persuading foreign governments not to execute about six of its nationals, do not believe they were convicted for drug related offences. I guess the challenge for foreign governments is to persuade the Indos to change their Constituion and Penal Code in order to abolish the death sentence. Edited February 15, 2015 by simple1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lawrence Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 You mean bring the two ring leaders home and leave their victims in Bali ? You must be joking. I can't see how executing is financially more expensive than housing and feeding them. The indos will do it with a couple of bullets. $5. I'm only discussing it with you and I welcome ur opinion. It’s about trying ways for the Indonesian President to save face, it was all I was suggesting. You have to do the figures or at least research the costs of incarceration v's capital punishment? Its cost the Indonesians more than $5.00. This statement does not show logic. You haven’t factored in the court costs, lawyer fees, transport, incarceration, appeals, appeals courts or ancillary costs associated with the case. This does not include the costs Australian Tax payers have also paid. Neverdie, I had to do a fair bit of reading and research on capital punishment. All you are doing is replying to a post from the internet. To discuss this further you need to be better informed from your side. Otherwise, all that happens is a rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 You mean bring the two ring leaders home and leave their victims in Bali ? You must be joking. I can't see how executing is financially more expensive than housing and feeding them. The indos will do it with a couple of bullets. $5. I'm only discussing it with you and I welcome ur opinion. No one said to release them from prison or not to punish them. They are only saying don't execute them. And if everything comes down to money, then maybe you can tell us all how perhaps we should just execute the other financial drains on society like the disabled, the old, the sick, the unemployed. While we're at it perhaps we can also label them as parasites as well. Not exactly right Chris suggested they could serve out their sentences in Australia. That's what I responded to. Australia can't dictate to the Indonesians, their country their laws their penalties. These guys new the game, new the risks, lost and now it's time to pay the piper. They get to make one more decision in life, that's it. Blindfold or no blindfold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Well done Indo, way to go. Indo Indo Indo, oi oi oi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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