Thai woman 'preparing to leave UK' after losing immigration battle

[MaprangHolmes]

A THAI woman who has lived and worked in Plymouth for seven years is packing her bags and preparing to leave the country after losing a gruelling immigration battle.

Earlier this month Jirapon Doidge, aged 37, was told she would be deported after sitting the wrong type of language test.

Mrs Doidges husband, 54-year-old Phil, had hoped for a reprieve after raising the issue with Labour leader Ed Miliband.

But on Monday Mr Doidge told The Herald he was preparing to say his last goodbyes.

Read more at http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Thai-woman-preparing-leave-UK-losing-immigration/story-26033607-detail/story.html#AOzJAuBIIWvDz0FD.99

Edited February 17, 2015 by theoldgit
Forum Rule 14, Fair use of puplished article

[Stanaris]

Does anyone know which Visa she had when arriving in the UK 7 years ago?

[colinneil]

More to this than we are hearing. She has been in England for 7 years. OK.

She must have passed interview in Bangkok, then got required visa etc.

Something not 100% correct here.

[tw25rw]

Why speak to Ed Miliband? He can't decide anything..

[samsensam]

Why speak to Ed Miliband? He can't decide anything..

agree. if anyone he should be talking to his local MP, unless Ed is his local MP?!

there is clearly more to this story than reported.

[paz]

I was told that my thinking is wrong, but I will repeat it here, it is just my thinking as well the one of some other millions people.

A country that doesn't allow a spouse of a citizen to stay in country - sine conditio is negating basic human rights.

[steve187]

more to the story than in the clipping

edit it would seem ''In 2013, Jirapon applied for a Spouse visa extension which was refused due to the wrong English language test being submitted with the visa application''

Edited February 17, 2015 by steve187

[bobrussell]

There seems to be a lot of duff legal advice going around in the UK. In most of these cases legal advice seems to revolve round trying to appeal, fighting the Home Office etc.

A bit of legal honesty might improve things. Wrong exam - head back to Thailand, reapply with the right paperwork and a visa will be issued.

Of course the alternative is for someone at the Home Office to use some commonsense, make an honorable and humane decision and save everyone a lot of worry and money. These cases are completely pointless and must be costing the taxpayer a fortune.

I assume that the extension was FLR. Why did she not just reapply with the right test?

Logic seems to have disappeared completely. My father always said 'the law is an ass!'.

[steve187]

all that BS just to get your wife back to your country of birth, yet the EU members are bringing them in with no problems

[7by7]

The EEA freedom of movement regulations apply to British citizens moving to or living in another EEA country, too.

British citizens are moving to other EEA countries with their non EEA national spouses with no problems; many then using the Surinder Singh ruling to move back to the UK with their non EEA family!

Can we please not turn this topic into another EEA bashfest?

[bobrussell]

As has been posted many times before, EU law applies when settling in countries other than your own. Settling a partner in your own country means local immigration rules apply. These are invariably stricter than EU rules. It is easier and cheaper for a French citizen to bring a non-EU partner to the UK than a UK citizen. It is also much harder for a French citizen to bring a non-EU partner to settle in France than a UK citizen! All a bit daft but equally daft for everyone!

I really think the standard of advice given by solicitors in the UK can be desperately poor when it comes to immigration law. A friend of my wife is facing separation from her young children, at least in part because I don't think she applied for the most appropriate visa. The trouble is that UKVI/Home Office seem unable or unwilling to use discretion and once they have refused, stick firmly to their guns even if this makes no sense!

Sometimes I think there is more suitable advice on this forum than at a number of solicitors offices. I suppose there is plenty of money to be made by advisors assisting with appeals.This particular lady could have gone back to Thailand some time ago, armed with the correct test certificate and had it sorted out within a few weeks. Frustrating but surely less stressful than fighting the system.

These cases could so easily be avoided by receiving sound advice! Why was the wrong test taken? In the case of my wife's friend, why was the application not made under Zambrano case law? A well prepared application putting forward the best case for approval would have stood a good chance of success. Sadly UKVI are not allowed to be seen to be wrong and will fight rather than give way, come what may.

Edited February 17, 2015 by bobrussell

[Chivas]

I worked with the Husband back in the 80's in Plymouth and if anybody on earth was going to cock up it would be this Guy......

It was reported in the Plymouth Herald last week not this week front page I might add

[retiredusn]

Nothing that does not happen right here in Thailand all the time, except that the table is turned .

[MartinL]

... Why did she not just reapply with the right test?

The full Plymouth Herald article says " ... Jirapon took a language test which was not approved by the Home Office.

She has since taken the ‘correct’ exam, but the Home Office has refused to change its original decision ... ".

IMO, this just shows the H.O. to be pig obstinate and unwilling to lose face (a nice Thai characteristic - clearly not exclusively Thai ) by admitting to a wrong decision.

Edited February 17, 2015 by MartinL

[sanuk711]

Nothing that does not happen right here in Thailand all the time, except that the table is turned .

Is that so retiredusen.............. so how did you score on your written & oral Thai language test,

before you got your last 1 year visa.............

Edited February 17, 2015 by sanuk711

[bobrussell]

... Why did she not just reapply with the right test?

The full Plymouth Herald article says " ... Jirapon took a language test which was not approved by the Home Office.

She has since taken the ‘correct’ exam, but the Home Office has refused to change its original decision ... ".

IMO, this just shows the H.O. to be pig obstinate and unwilling to lose face (a nice Thai characteristic - clearly not exclusively Thai ) by admitting to a wrong decision.

Immigration rules are set in stone and discretion has been almost entirely removed. Failure to provide the correct paperwork and refusal seems to be automatic. Refusal, once on paper, seems irreversible whether it is logical or not. Refusal has to be followed by appeal but clearly this will be unsuccessful unless the refusal was incorrect in law. Refusal must then be followed by threats of deportation!

This is the system today and daft though it may be, the best thing may be to re-apply in country with the correct paperwork! Probably cheaper and quicker than paying a solicitor to arrange an appeal.

Most of these cases seem to be technically correct. Wrong paperwork, wrong visa type but why on earth do they not have someone able to reassess after the application of a bit of commonsense?

[Chivas]

... Why did she not just reapply with the right test?

The full Plymouth Herald article says " ... Jirapon took a language test which was not approved by the Home Office.

She has since taken the ‘correct’ exam, but the Home Office has refused to change its original decision ... ".

IMO, this just shows the H.O. to be pig obstinate and unwilling to lose face (a nice Thai characteristic - clearly not exclusively Thai ) by admitting to a wrong decision.

Most of these cases seem to be technically correct. Wrong paperwork, wrong visa type but why on earth do they not have someone able to reassess after the application of a bit of commonsense?

Ah but that would be too simple and deprive Civil Servants of jobs god forbid.................

[elvisp1977]

Didn't some settlement visa's also get through from August to November 2014 based on an A1 Bulats Test which was not an approved test after 22.8.14?

Cheers...

[tahaan]

Is there more to this report?

I know several Thai wives granted DLR when refused FLR because of a failure to submit evidence of English. They would have arrived about the same time when A1 English was not required for the initial settlement application. No doubt DLR was granted grudgingly due to human rights law.

Edited February 17, 2015 by tahaan

[wooloomooloo]

I worked with the Husband back in the 80's in Plymouth and if anybody on earth was going to cock up it would be this Guy......

My wife knows a lot of Thai ladies and it's interesting to note their various immigration statuses. I've seen them all from the blasé to the serious - and that's just the husbands.

Whilst I have every sympathy, what is an Entry 1 Functional Skills test? And I don't blame his wife for the oversight. The poor girl has put her faith in her husband's judgement and been let down. His wife has obviously run out of time or her husband has deigned to stump up the fee for a second application and therefore, hmm, forced the clock to run out of time.

[Sandman77]

New eu law is that langue test is not needed when she have allready family in uk

[Thai at Heart]

Actually, if her papers are in order he would be better to speak to Nigel Farage.

[ExPratt]

They cant boot her put if shes married to a Brit can they ?

[Baerboxer]

They cant boot her put if shes married to a Brit can they ?

Yes they can, and probably will. The time when commons sense and helpfulness to citizens were seen as important is long gone.

Not just Britain, or Thailand but seemingly most countries now. Black and white when it suits them, very grey when they're being held accountable.

[ExPratt]

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They cant boot her put if shes married to a Brit can they ?

Yes they can, and probably will. The time when commons sense and helpfulness to citizens were seen as important is long gone.

Not just Britain, or Thailand but seemingly most countries now. Black and white when it suits them, very grey when they're being held accountable.

She doesn't have to leave the Uk tough just her job, If its Husband and wife and/or kids its a Human rights case

[moobie]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

They cant boot her put if shes married to a Brit can they ?

Yes they can, and probably will. The time when commons sense and helpfulness to citizens were seen as important is long gone.

Not just Britain, or Thailand but seemingly most countries now. Black and white when it suits them, very grey when they're being held accountable.

She doesn't have to leave the Uk tough just her job, If its Husband and wife and/or kids its a Human rights case

I do believe you are quite wrong. If you are in the UK you will often read of "family people" who have been here for decades and have had to leave. These cases often come to prominence when one of the partner's attempts to renew or apply for passport, etc. and sets a trigger off in officialdom and later highlighted by the media. And unfortunately, you may sympathy hard-pressed to find in many people in these cases, especially where a Thai woman is involved - sorry as that may sound.

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

They cant boot her put if shes married to a Brit can they ?

Yes they can, and probably will. The time when commons sense and helpfulness to citizens were seen as important is long gone.

Not just Britain, or Thailand but seemingly most countries now. Black and white when it suits them, very grey when they're being held accountable.

She doesn't have to leave the Uk tough just her job, If its Husband and wife and/or kids its a Human rights case

I do believe you are quite wrong. If you are in the UK you will often read of "family people" who have been here for decades and have had to leave. These cases often come to prominence when one of the partner's attempts to renew or apply for passport, etc. and sets a trigger off in officialdom and later highlighted by the media. And unfortunately, you may sympathy hard-pressed to find in many people in these cases, especially where a Thai woman is involved - sorry as that may sound.

I wasn't aware of that at all. It used to be to be once the best part of 2 years was spent in the country as a spouse they got indefinite leave to remain, I didn't think they could split families

[ExPratt]

double post

Edited February 18, 2015 by ExPratt

[uptheos]

... Why did she not just reapply with the right test?

The full Plymouth Herald article says " ... Jirapon took a language test which was not approved by the Home Office.

She has since taken the ‘correct’ exam, but the Home Office has refused to change its original decision ... ".

IMO, this just shows the H.O. to be pig obstinate and unwilling to lose face (a nice Thai characteristic - clearly not exclusively Thai ) by admitting to a wrong decision.

Immigration rules are set in stone and discretion has been almost entirely removed. Failure to provide the correct paperwork and refusal seems to be automatic. Refusal, once on paper, seems irreversible whether it is logical or not. Refusal has to be followed by appeal but clearly this will be unsuccessful unless the refusal was incorrect in law. Refusal must then be followed by threats of deportation!

This is the system today and daft though it may be, the best thing may be to re-apply in country with the correct paperwork! Probably cheaper and quicker than paying a solicitor to arrange an appeal.

Most of these cases seem to be technically correct. Wrong paperwork, wrong visa type but why on earth do they not have someone able to reassess after the application of a bit of commonsense?

I suppose you're not talking about Thai immigration?

[7by7]

<snip>

Most of these cases seem to be technically correct. Wrong paperwork, wrong visa type but why on earth do they not have someone able to reassess after the application of a bit of commonsense?

Because the rules, set by parliament, don't allow it.

Any appeal will decide whether or not the refusal was correct at the time of the refusal. A change in circumstances since, such as this lady taking the correct test, cannot be taken into account.

The refusal, from what we have been told by the press, was correct in law.

Having said that, I have full sympathy for her and, as I have argued in another topic, flexibility on this point should be allowed.

But it will take a change in the law for that to happen.