Lite Beer Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 EDITORIALCar-bomb in Narathiwat: A wake-up call for BangkokThe Nation BANGKOK: -- Drama shows that govt claims of progress and a drop in violence are not soundly basedThe huge car-bomb that rocked Narathiwat on Friday has cast a cloud over the supposed progress that authorities say they have made over recent months in their fight against insurgency in the far South.More than 10 people were injured and about 20 shophouses and food stalls damaged by the blast.For some months now, the government has pointed to the fact that the overall number of violent incidents has dropped by more than 40 per cent compared to the previous year.But if anything, the Narathiwat car-bomb was a reminder that the number of violent incidents alone is not enough to justify a claim of success or progress.For the past decade or so the central government has been sounding like a broken record: The insurgents hit us because we are on the right track; the insurgents don't hit us because we are on the right track.With Thai society largely indifferent to the plight and grievances of ethnic Malays in the southernmost provinces, the government could just about say anything and get away with it.Over recent months, the authorities have been telling the general public and the world that the number of "green zone" areas is up while the number of troubled "red" zones has dropped.Superficial attempts to quantify progress are straight out of a warfare textbook. But the conflict in the far South is anything but conventional.Insurgents, at this point in time, are not out to win geographical space, but mental space. This is a war of hearts and minds - at least at this stage anyway.And if the current crop of Thai security planners can't understand this point, they should step aside and let people with better understanding of sub-national conflict take over.It's amazing how the authorities can blindly believe their own propaganda - about how they have won over the hearts and minds of the local people.Yes, intelligence has improved as more and more moles are being placed in various pockets and communities throughout the region. And they do, every once in a long while, provide information leading to the arrest of suspects.And of course, forensic science has been stepped up tremendously to help secure convictions. In the past, most suspects would confess to whatever allegations the police made against them - then retract their statement when the case gets to court.And without concrete evidence, the court has no choice but to let them go. This explained why, until just over a year ago, more than 80 per cent of such cases were thrown out by the courts. People will say anything, it seems, if they are being tortured.But it would take a lot more than just forensic science and an improved judicial system to secure peace in this highly and historically contested region.Understanding the root cause is a good start. From that our policy makers could see the difference between the Thai state-constructed narrative and the narrative embraced by the Malays of Patani. Perhaps our leaders could understand why the Malays in Patani refer to them as colonial masters and call themselves colonial subjects.If we get this far, then we can start talking about what kind of concessions the state is willing to give to the Malays of Patani. But sadly, our attitude to the Malays of Patani has not been that different from the longstanding notion of the "white man's burden" - the duty of colonisers to civilise indigenous people.The locals may take our freebies and we immediately think they are on our side because they wouldn't bite the hands that feed them.Well, it has been more than 10 years now - this wave of insurgency - and more than 6,000 people, mostly Malay Muslims, have died. It's high time to rethink the whole thing. It is up to us to find a better way to resolve this problem. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Car-bomb-in-Narathiwat-A-wake-up-call-for-Bangkok-30254616.html -- The Nation 2015-02-22 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PatOngo Posted February 22, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2015 Well, it has been more than 10 years now - this wave of insurgency - and more than 6,000 people, mostly Malay Muslims, have died. It's high time to rethink the whole thing. It is up to us to find a better way to resolve this problem. In comparison, approximately 26,000 die in road fatalities each year. It's high time to rethink the whole thing. It is up to you to find a better way to resolve this problem. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainarong Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 The only ones that didn't know that the situation hasn't changed in the South for the past 2 Decades is the Thai administration, there has been countless gum gnashing, thousands of statements ,change of commanders , useless bi lateral agreements with Malaysia and so it goes on , not one measure has been successful and it wouldn't matter if the Pope intervened , you are dealing with people that don't wish to use dialog and peaceful means to achieve their goals and truth be known peace in the South will always be a myth, face facts it ain't gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozterix Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 and the 26000 killed on the road annually are not less innocent than the 600 ones each year in the south. unfortunately most people will think they can't do anything about road death so it is hardly mentioned but we get daily reports on attacks in the south. 26000/365=71.6 deaths per day... 1.5 airbus per week and nothing is done but when a plane crashes in the world with 200 people on board, it makes national news worldwide, for days and people get scared of flying... we definitely need to get our priorities right. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko kok prong Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 They could always try the US approach and bomb the hell out of them,seems to have worked really well in Iraq.libya etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post klauskunkel Posted February 22, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2015 Car-bomb in Narathiwat: A wake-up call for Bangkok ...snooze button 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pimay1 Posted February 22, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2015 Well, it has been more than 10 years now - this wave of insurgency - and more than 6,000 people, mostly Malay Muslims, have died. I believe in calling a spade a spade. ter·ror·ism ˈterəˌrizəm/ noun noun: terrorism the use of violence including bombings and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) They could always try the US approach and bomb the hell out of them,seems to have worked really well in Iraq.libya etc. Especially since they were first...just as in 911. Perhaps they should try a different approach, other than terrorism, first off. Because it is not working ! Edited February 22, 2015 by slipperylobster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
off road pat Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) They could always try the US approach and bomb the hell out of them,seems to have worked really well in Iraq.libya etc. Well, the only thing is , The US bombs the hell out in other country's......killing thousands of Innocent people every time..... how would you feel if they bombed the hell out in there own country....and killing it's own people instead...???? I'd like to see that..!!! Edited February 22, 2015 by off road pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) They could always try the US approach and bomb the hell out of them,seems to have worked really well in Iraq.libya etc. Well, the only thing is , The US bombs the hell out in other country's......killing thousands of Innocent people every time..... how would you feel if they bombed the hell out in there own country....???? Exactly... People react violently to Terrorism. They (terrorists) force the hand. If they ceased bombing, the US and their allies would be able to cease their actions as well. Nobody wants to get dragged into a no win situation...where car bombing, terrorism, attacks on innocents in France, England and the USA (911)...not to mention others....precipitates reprisals. All this should be stopped.... but it is up to the leaders (who promote terrorism) to desist from this behavior. Edited February 22, 2015 by slipperylobster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 They could always try the US approach and bomb the hell out of them,seems to have worked really well in Iraq.libya etc. It worked really well? You read the news from time to time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rethaier Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 They could always try the US approach and bomb the hell out of them,seems to have worked really well in Iraq.libya etc. It worked really well? You read the news from time to time? I think the OP was being facetious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehard60 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Yea know there is only one way to deal with thes people and Thaksin unfortunately was doing the right way I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocky Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 It was peaceful in the south under Chuan Leekpai, the shit hit the fan when Thaksin came to power. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 727Sky Posted February 22, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2015 Over 40 years ago I used to fly dignataries down south to look at the bunkers the so called communist insurgents were building. 'Communist' was the buzz word but it was the same old results with bombs and bullets for killing the locals. 40 + years later nothing has really changed except they even have positions in government now so their point of view can be understood. The Wahabbist of Islam, if viewed from any vantage point seem to be incapable of co-existing with any society that does not adopt their religious views and Shariah law. The Thais have been much more hospitable to Islam than maybe they should have. Many Muslims leave a country that is some kind of messed up and then proceed to make the host country as a mirror image of the place they left ! Several countries in Europe are learning that lesson currently.with the gift of bombs an bullets from the religion of peace. Radical Islam is like a cancer that if not stopped when there are but a few cells it will matastasize and infect an entire region/body.. Ultimate peer presure for all in the region. Thai visa had an article about a Malaysian receiving death threats for organizing a dog petting day.. Fatwas or some form of haram (forbidden) certainly seems to be a method to their madness if judged by any standards other than 14th century dictates. I could link the percentages of a population where certain things hold true in any country they are present.. Yes ANY COUNTRY.. It would appear at around 5% Muslim in a host country the bombs a bullets follow just to let people know they want autonomy if the host country is not some part and brand of Islam already... No guarantee even in that case..... Not a hater just a realist who studies history . . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravip Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 The ONLY way to deal with terrorists is with an iron fist. After that, the discussions with the humanitarians could be done, if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravip Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 They could always try the US approach and bomb the hell out of them,seems to have worked really well in Iraq.libya etc. Really? That I feel is the root cause for 99% of the worlds current problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieterWiehe Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 They could always try the US approach and bomb the hell out of them,seems to have worked really well in Iraq.libya etc. Especially since they were first...just as in 911. Perhaps they should try a different approach, other than terrorism, first off. Because it is not working ! the US approach has worked very well. instead of Saddam and Gaddafi in control of there country's where there citizens had a normal life we have now Isis Bush and Blair should be taken to court for war crimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinediscoking Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 It was peaceful in the south under Chuan Leekpai, the shit hit the fan when Thaksin came to power.What a completely ignorant statement! The Islamic\separatist violent movement was going on long before Thaksin took power. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocky Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) It was peaceful in the south under Chuan Leekpai, the shit hit the fan when Thaksin came to power.What a completely ignorant statement! The Islamic\separatist violent movement was going on long before Thaksin took power. No, not ignorant. Read the history of the south and you'll understand that the current wave of violence started after Thaksin first came to power in 2001. Try reading Duncan McCargo, 2006 - "Thaksin And The Resurgence Of Violence In The Thai South". Edited February 22, 2015 by Stocky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinediscoking Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I was in hat yai in 1992 there was sporadic violence then as well in Yala. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelman868 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 The only ones that didn't know that the situation hasn't changed in the South for the past 2 Decades is the Thai administration, there has been countless gum gnashing, thousands of statements ,change of commanders , useless bi lateral agreements with Malaysia and so it goes on , not one measure has been successful and it wouldn't matter if the Pope intervened , you are dealing with people that don't wish to use dialog and peaceful means to achieve their goals and truth be known peace in the South will always be a myth, face facts it ain't gonna happen. The first fact is from the Qur-an :- Muslims can lie to Infidels and that's ok. So any agreement is worthless, unlesss it is entirely in their favor. The insurgents don't care who they kill as the Muslims will go to Allah and the rest of us will go to God. Oh hang, on Allah and God are the same it says so in their Qur-an. So I've now got a picture of an insurgent standing in front of Allah saying, Hi I'm a martyr let me in and where are my virgins. Of course everyone knows there are no virgins around coz IS and Boka Haram have killed them all. When the "marty" is told this he's says what must I do for eternity Back to the serious bit. The Insurgents are truly animals and will not change, so what is a solution. The following idea is not ideal but is a way the construct a control of these states. Thailand gives up 4 of the provinces, that gives the Muslims an area far bigger that Singapore. The insurgents agree to stop the violence and anyone not wishing to stay in this new State can move back into Thailand. If the violence continues then it can legally be considered an act of war. As the only people living there will be supporters of their Government ??????? Thailand will lose a tiny piece of land but currently the lose of life and financial burden make the lost worthwhile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
727Sky Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 The only ones that didn't know that the situation hasn't changed in the South for the past 2 Decades is the Thai administration, there has been countless gum gnashing, thousands of statements ,change of commanders , useless bi lateral agreements with Malaysia and so it goes on , not one measure has been successful and it wouldn't matter if the Pope intervened , you are dealing with people that don't wish to use dialog and peaceful means to achieve their goals and truth be known peace in the South will always be a myth, face facts it ain't gonna happen. The first fact is from the Qur-an :- Muslims can lie to Infidels and that's ok. So any agreement is worthless, unlesss it is entirely in their favor. The insurgents don't care who they kill as the Muslims will go to Allah and the rest of us will go to God. Oh hang, on Allah and God are the same it says so in their Qur-an. So I've now got a picture of an insurgent standing in front of Allah saying, Hi I'm a martyr let me in and where are my virgins. Of course everyone knows there are no virgins around coz IS and Boka Haram have killed them all. When the "marty" is told this he's says what must I do for eternity Back to the serious bit. The Insurgents are truly animals and will not change, so what is a solution. The following idea is not ideal but is a way the construct a control of these states. Thailand gives up 4 of the provinces, that gives the Muslims an area far bigger that Singapore. The insurgents agree to stop the violence and anyone not wishing to stay in this new State can move back into Thailand. If the violence continues then it can legally be considered an act of war. As the only people living there will be supporters of their Government ??????? Thailand will lose a tiny piece of land but currently the lose of life and financial burden make the lost worthwhile. Unfortunately that would only give them a base to make bigger better bombs and be resupplied...... In another ??? years we would be back at square one where there were bombs and bullets and the always persistent request for new land for their ever growing population. I think I understand you legal position of an act of war but the killing of so called innocents never makes for good press; innocent or not.. This is Thailand not some Muslim wanna be 3rd world country so as far as I am concerned obey the laws and customs to become productive members of this society or get the heck out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surangw Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Well, it has been more than 10 years now - this wave of insurgency - and more than 6,000 people, mostly Malay Muslims, have died. I believe in calling a spade a spade. ter·ror·ism ˈterəˌrizəm/ noun noun: terrorism the use of violence including bombings and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. and for the most part, kept out of the western media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Over 40 years ago I used to fly dignataries down south to look at the bunkers the so called communist insurgents were building. 'Communist' was the buzz word but it was the same old results with bombs and bullets for killing the locals. 40 + years later nothing has really changed except they even have positions in government now so their point of view can be understood. The Wahabbist of Islam, if viewed from any vantage point seem to be incapable of co-existing with any society that does not adopt their religious views and Shariah law. The Thais have been much more hospitable to Islam than maybe they should have. Many Muslims leave a country that is some kind of messed up and then proceed to make the host country as a mirror image of the place they left ! Several countries in Europe are learning that lesson currently.with the gift of bombs an bullets from the religion of peace. Radical Islam is like a cancer that if not stopped when there are but a few cells it will matastasize and infect an entire region/body.. Ultimate peer presure for all in the region. Thai visa had an article about a Malaysian receiving death threats for organizing a dog petting day.. Fatwas or some form of haram (forbidden) certainly seems to be a method to their madness if judged by any standards other than 14th century dictates. I could link the percentages of a population where certain things hold true in any country they are present.. Yes ANY COUNTRY.. It would appear at around 5% Muslim in a host country the bombs a bullets follow just to let people know they want autonomy if the host country is not some part and brand of Islam already... No guarantee even in that case..... Not a hater just a realist who studies history From your post you do not appear to know the history of the conflict in the deep South, nor the original primary motivations. From media reports Islamism is slowly gaining ground, but is not the root cause of the violence; have a read of the analysis of the report in the URL below. http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf Some other reading you may find interesting. http://www.lowyinstitute.org/files/pubfiles/Liow_and_Pathan%2C_Confronting_ghosts_web.pdf http://www.slideshare.net/ikhwanng/history-and-politics-of-the-muslims-in-thailand Edited February 22, 2015 by simple1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandasloan Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 [snip snip] The Wahabbist of Islam, if viewed from any vantage point seem to be incapable of co-existing with any society that does not adopt their religious views and Shariah law. Quite possibly true. It has nothing to do with the deep South or any current problems in Thailand, though. The OP was about a bombing in Narathiwat, and generally about the insurgency and terrorism in Thailand. Islamists, thank goodness, are not the motivators or bombers. The Thais have been much more hospitable to Islam than maybe they should have. Many Muslims leave a country that is some kind of messed up and then proceed to make the host country as a mirror image of the place they left ! Several countries in Europe are learning that lesson currently.with the gift of bombs an bullets from the religion of peace. Quite possible, but it has nothing to do with the deep South or with any current problems in Thailand. Siam captured the region and its Muslim inhabitants. It was not particularly hospitable to those Muslims. One of the smaller problems and long-term reasoning in the alleged "minds" of the bombers is that Bangkok tried to dilute the Islamic population by colonising the area with ethnic Thais. This fact is cited often in separatist propaganda. You're trying to fit your current political/social beliefs to the situation here, and it doesn't work. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
727Sky Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Over 40 years ago I used to fly dignataries down south to look at the bunkers the so called communist insurgents were building. 'Communist' was the buzz word but it was the same old results with bombs and bullets for killing the locals. 40 + years later nothing has really changed except they even have positions in government now so their point of view can be understood. The Wahabbist of Islam, if viewed from any vantage point seem to be incapable of co-existing with any society that does not adopt their religious views and Shariah law. The Thais have been much more hospitable to Islam than maybe they should have. Many Muslims leave a country that is some kind of messed up and then proceed to make the host country as a mirror image of the place they left ! Several countries in Europe are learning that lesson currently.with the gift of bombs an bullets from the religion of peace. Radical Islam is like a cancer that if not stopped when there are but a few cells it will matastasize and infect an entire region/body.. Ultimate peer presure for all in the region. Thai visa had an article about a Malaysian receiving death threats for organizing a dog petting day.. Fatwas or some form of haram (forbidden) certainly seems to be a method to their madness if judged by any standards other than 14th century dictates. I could link the percentages of a population where certain things hold true in any country they are present.. Yes ANY COUNTRY.. It would appear at around 5% Muslim in a host country the bombs a bullets follow just to let people know they want autonomy if the host country is not some part and brand of Islam already... No guarantee even in that case..... Not a hater just a realist who studies history From your post you do not appear to know the history of the conflict in the deep South, nor the original primary motivations. From media reports Islamism is slowly gaining ground, but is not the root cause of the violence; have a read of the analysis of the report in the URL below. http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf Some other reading you may find interesting. http://www.lowyinstitute.org/files/pubfiles/Liow_and_Pathan%2C_Confronting_ghosts_web.pdf http://www.slideshare.net/ikhwanng/history-and-politics-of-the-muslims-in-thailand Thank you for taking the time to post the links; I will read them. Always room to learn something new or listen to a new point of view. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
727Sky Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 From your second link .. The articles are very wordy but actually a good read. QUOTE: Because of the stature and the respect accorded to religious leaders in traditional Patani Malay society, the ulama wing essentially provides religious justification for the struggle and is involved in the recruitment through Islamic schools (a phenomenon which the paper will discuss in greater detail at a later stage). END QUOTE: I stand by my opening statement. You can not have Mosque that preach hate and schools who teach young minds it is OK to kill in the name of some misguided cancerous religious doctrine that is used as a glue to bind the minds of hot headed youth. This is a very old play book that is used the world over. It starts as a state within a state, until it is their state, or no state. Just the way I see it which has no more weight than anyone elses. QUOTE: What is striking about the juwae is the fact that though many were indoctrinated and recruited via local Islamic schools that were mostly affiliated with members of BRN- Coordinate —END QUOTE: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryfrompattaya Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I was in hat yai in 1992 there was sporadic violence then as well in Yala. Notice no Nation can get along with them pure and sample why should Thailand be any different No mater what you do they want you to convert or die Stop blaming anyone but the but they fellow Notice I like Obama do not mention who they are But we are known 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryfrompattaya Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 They could always try the US approach and bomb the hell out of them,seems to have worked really well in Iraq.libya etc. I guess we can convert do you want that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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