NYC, Orthodox Jews in talks over ritual after herpes cases

[Jingthing]

Yep. This exaggerated concern about the health of Jewish babies in NYC by the same people who have posted hundreds of Israel demonizing posts is simply not believable as sincere. Another way to exploit a negative news story about Jews and blow it up way out of proportion. Again, not sure why this thread is still open. The practice of oral suction in circumcision is bad, everyone posting here seems to agree, it is not done by most Jews only fanatically fundamentalist, it shouldn't be done at all but compared to other problems in the world, it is a very minor thing.

The city of New York made a balanced decision. Making it illegal would have been another option. I understand why some people would argue for that but there are reasons for the stance they did take as well.

Jingthing, the reason why this thread is still open or not is absolutely nothing to do with you. It is still serving it's purpose to up your post count with dozens of banal posts, so why worry. Are you vying for a position on the MOD team now? Hoping to come over as all sensible at last? As for your pitiful line about the exaggerated concern of jewish babies, how many need to die or be infected before it is not an exaggeration Jingthing? Isn't one enough when it is such a barbaric practice? Who knows what the life long effects are of having your penis sucked by an old man when you are 7 days old eh Jingthing.

The decision by NYC was not balanced, far from it and the only reason they made that decision was ...........votes! nothing more nothing less.

Again, nothing new but the same old inflammatory, personalized garbage.

We all agree it is a health risk and totally unnecessary.

The city of New York decided that monitoring a legal practice was a better health situation overall than totally driving it underground.

I think their decision is defensible and so would making it illegal because that would show a principle even if not the wisest for health risks.

As far as your idiotic implication that there would be any long term sexual effects on an infant to this ritual, that is clearly done to inflame ... and has no rationality to it, the ritual is not a sex act and the infant doesn't have a clue ... getting the foreskin chopped off is the more traumatic event and I doubt that is something anyone would remember.

If the snarky implication was that the oral suction ritual at infancy would make a child gay, super idiotic of course but perhaps worth commenting upon.

Like any group of people some Orthodox Jews grow up to be gay.

It is not a good situation for gays among these ultra Orthodox Jews.

One common response is that the family "sits shiva" for the gay child as if the child was dead.

They don't actually murder the child as is done in Muslim honor killings, but you can see what is sometimes done, shunning their own child, is very very horrible.

Happily, the majority of Jews are not like this. I detest irrational fundamentalism that hurts people from any faith.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[DaddyWarbucks]

Yep. This exaggerated concern about the health of Jewish babies in NYC by the same people who have posted hundreds of Israel demonizing posts is simply not believable as sincere. Another way to exploit a negative news story about Jews and blow it up way out of proportion. Again, not sure why this thread is still open. The practice of oral suction in circumcision is bad, everyone posting here seems to agree, it is not done by most Jews only fanatically fundamentalist, it shouldn't be done at all but compared to other problems in the world, it is a very minor thing.

The city of New York made a balanced decision. Making it illegal would have been another option. I understand why some people would argue for that but there are reasons for the stance they did take as well.

Jingthing, the reason why this thread is still open or not is absolutely nothing to do with you. It is still serving it's purpose to up your post count with dozens of banal posts, so why worry. Are you vying for a position on the MOD team now? Hoping to come over as all sensible at last? As for your pitiful line about the exaggerated concern of jewish babies, how many need to die or be infected before it is not an exaggeration Jingthing? Isn't one enough when it is such a barbaric practice? Who knows what the life long effects are of having your penis sucked by an old man when you are 7 days old eh Jingthing.

The decision by NYC was not balanced, far from it and the only reason they made that decision was ...........votes! nothing more nothing less.

Again, nothing new but the same old inflammatory garbage.

We all agree it is a health risk and totally unneccessary.

The city of New York decided that monitoring a legal practice was a better health situation overall than totally driving it underground.

I think their decision is defensible and so would making it illegal because that would show a principle even if not the wisest for health risks.

As far as your idiotic implication that there would be any long term sexual effects on an infant to this ritual, that is clearly done to inflame ... and has no rationality to it, the ritual is not a sex act and the infant doesn't have a clue ... getting the foreskin chopped off is the more traumatic event and I doubt that is something anyone would remember.

What double talk!

You are defending the indefensible.

[Jingthing]

No I am not.

I am against the practice as a health risk.

But I am also against people making false charges against people and suggesting the practice is a sexual act / sex crime / pederasty.

It might be better for people obsessing about this to have a poster who was actually defending the oral suction practice as something that should be done.

Sorry, that is NOT me and I refuse to be put into that box.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[harryfrompattaya]

After all this I am waiting for proofs of any deaths

Help the millions of Alcoholics that need your help

Please Remember these Jewish babies grow up to be the (fill in blanks)

And at least admit you true feeling about Jews

So me how money you gave to Jewish charities compared what you spend on Booze

Edited March 8, 2015 by harryfrompattaya

[DaddyWarbucks]

After all this I am waiting for proofs of any deaths

Help the millions of Alcoholics that need your help

Please Remember these Jewish babies grow up to be the (fill in blanks)

And at least admit you true feeling about Jews

So me how money you gave to Jewish charities compared what you spend on Booze

That's a strange sounding post, harry.

[BKKBobby]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I just threw up a lil in my mouth, Disgusting, Almost Sounds Criminal...

And chopping healthy little penis ...crime!

Do I detect a pro foreskin sympathiser?

No way would I want that filthy bit of skin flapping about, not to mention those that have phimosis- YUCH.

By that logic, lambs would not be docked, with all the complications of tails ensuing.

I have to laugh out loud at those people who have obviously been circumcised (and are therefore denied the incredible sensitivity during sex that disappears when their foreskins are thrown in the bin), and seem to think that if they have a foreskin they assume one ends up with a kilo of smegma festering away underneath the foreskin. I am not circumcised, my penis has never been filthy. It may come as a surprise to you that I wash it as often as I would behind my ears, maybe moreso.

Perhaps wandering through the desert for 40 years during the exodus, a stinking penis was a more common problem, as if you found a liter of water you were more likely to drink it than wash your private parts in it. HOWEVER, we live in modern times with modern sanitation and there is absolutely no need these days for circumcision. Full stop. It was a practice carried out by people thousands of years ago where water was a bit of a rarity, i.e. the desert locations. There is zero practical purpose for doing it, and to say 'God told us to do it" is stretching it a bit. If it were God why didn't he just make us without foreskins? Why give us one and then tell us to chop it off? The whole thing is ridiculous. And as for someone sucking the blood to prevent infection, when some cream and a sterile dressing would do a thousand times better is just the practice of nut jobs. Sucking a snake bite has no effect on reducing the effect of venom, why would sucking a child's bleeding penis prevent infection at cellular level? It is perpetuating the most ignorant practices of people who were only just out of the stone age.

Why would anyone miss what they never had? If circumcision made men insensitive there, they wouldn't want sex, but they do ( definitely ). BTW it probably makes one last longer, giving the GF a better ride than the premature ejaculators with the super sensitive members.

You don't address phimosis.

As a nurse, I'd prefer a circumcised man to have to wash.

. If it were God why didn't he just make us without foreskins?

Why do sheep have tails? Same same. Millions and millions have to be docked every year.

I had phimosis, it went away during my preteens. The doctor gave me cream-lubricant and told me to do a stretching routine, pulling back the skin. It became better and better, in a short time. Finally I had fully functional foreskin, not too tight or too loose.

Cut the crap.

This is my first hand experience.

I had a fear of being cut all my childhood cause of having to meet ignorant doctors that didnt know what to do all my childhood until I met one that wasnt stupid in my preteens.

Edited March 8, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Jingthing]

Another happy foreskin story. Maybe more apt in the health forum, innit?

This topic is not a cutting pro vs. con thing. That has been done so many times before.

The topic here is about the health risks with Orthodox circumcision in New York when using the ancient (and now proven unsafe) practice of oral suction.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[BKKBobby]

Another happy foreskin story. Maybe more apt in the health forum, innit?

I thought American-cut gays have a fetish for uncut willys. Why? Edited March 8, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Scott]

Some guys like a little lace on the end of the dick, but that's off-topic.

[Jingthing]

Another happy foreskin story. Maybe more apt in the health forum, innit?

I thought american-cut gays have a fetish for uncut willys. Why?

Open a thread on the gay forum. Not here.

[tsigane]

...

Nobody hates Jews (well, maybe apart from the Palestinians who are bombed daily), it's all in your head.

It's all in my head?

Dude, anyone actually so clueless as to actually believe that nobody hates Jews probably has a multitude of mental health issues and might benefit from seeing a very good Jewish psychiatrist!

BTW, I'm AGAINST the practice referred to in the OP! Imagine if someone came on here as a Jew actually DEFENDING it. Oy!

I'm gonna try very hard not to make it personal. I'll use you just as an example.

I don't hate you or Jews. I have many dear Jewish friends. I have nothing against Jewish tradition, religion or the desire to have a country of their own,

I only find people like you with countless, obsessive replies like in this thread ANNOYING. The same goes for the rest of Jewish crying.

It's simply ANNOYING! Nothing more, certainly no hatred. Only desire not to hear any more of Jewish agenda.

Have you ever heard "live and let live?" Jewish problems are not everyone's problems. Other people/ethnicities/nationalities have their own

problems.

If you stop equating being labeled as ANNOYING with someone hating you, suddently the world will look like a much nicer place.

Try it and you won't have to pay any psychiatrist, Jewish or otherwise

Edited March 8, 2015 by tsigane

[Jingthing]

I never said you hate Jews dude. I only said that saying nobody hates Jews as you did is MORONIC.

This topic is about some Jews and it's a problem to hear from some Jews here? That is ridiculous.

Back to the topic people calling these rabbis pedos should be ashamed of themselves.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited March 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[ggold]

I never said you hate Jews dude. I only said that saying nobody hates Jews as you did is MORONIC.

This topic is about some Jews and it's a problem to hear from some Jews here? That is ridulous.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's not Hate Jingthing! it's just a very strong dislike, There is a difference!

[ggold]

...

Nobody hates Jews (well, maybe apart from the Palestinians who are bombed daily), it's all in your head.

It's all in my head?

Dude, anyone actually so clueless as to actually believe that nobody hates Jews probably has a multitude of mental health issues and might benefit from seeing a very good Jewish psychiatrist!

BTW, I'm AGAINST the practice referred to in the OP! Imagine if someone came on here as a Jew actually DEFENDING it. Oy!

I'm gonna try very hard not to make it personal. I'll use you just as an example.

I don't hate you or Jews. I have many dear Jewish friends. I have nothing against Jewish tradition, religion or the desire to have a country of their own,

I only find people like you with countless, obsessive replies like in this thread ANNOYING. The same goes for the rest of Jewish crying.

It's simply ANNOYING! Nothing more, certainly no hatred. Only desire not to hear any more of Jewish agenda.

Have you ever heard "live and let live?" Jewish problems are not everyone's problems. Other people/ethnicities/nationalities have their own

problems.

If you stop equating being labeled as ANNOYING with someone hating you, suddently the world will look like a much nicer place.

Try it and you won't have to pay any psychiatrist, Jewish or otherwise

Surely having so many Dear Jewish friends, is incompatible with

"I have nothing against Jewish tradition, religion"

"I only find people like you with countless, obsessive replies"

"The same goes for the rest of Jewish crying"

"It's simply ANNOYING! Nothing more, certainly no hatred. Only desire not to hear any more of Jewish agenda." REALLY?

"Have you ever heard "live and let live?" Jewish problems are not everyone's problems. Other people/ethnicities/nationalities have their own

problems"

Are you sure you have many Dear Jewish friends, you don't come across as too friendly. Just sayin!

[Seastallion]

Another happy foreskin story. Maybe more apt in the health forum, innit?

This topic is not a cutting pro vs. con thing. That has been done so many times before.

The topic here is about the health risks with Orthodox circumcision in New York when using the ancient (and now proven unsafe) practice of oral suction.

Actually, the topic is the "in talks" about the health risks, and pertains to how regardless that babies die, the Jewish community is still allowed to perform a redundant ancient ritual.

Why is this aspect ignored?

Edited March 8, 2015 by Seastallion

[Seastallion]

...

Nobody hates Jews (well, maybe apart from the Palestinians who are bombed daily), it's all in your head.

It's all in my head?

Dude, anyone actually so clueless as to actually believe that nobody hates Jews probably has a multitude of mental health issues and might benefit from seeing a very good Jewish psychiatrist!

BTW, I'm AGAINST the practice referred to in the OP! Imagine if someone came on here as a Jew actually DEFENDING it. Oy!

I'm gonna try very hard not to make it personal. I'll use you just as an example.

I don't hate you or Jews. I have many dear Jewish friends. I have nothing against Jewish tradition, religion or the desire to have a country of their own,

I only find people like you with countless, obsessive replies like in this thread ANNOYING. The same goes for the rest of Jewish crying.

It's simply ANNOYING! Nothing more, certainly no hatred. Only desire not to hear any more of Jewish agenda.

Have you ever heard "live and let live?" Jewish problems are not everyone's problems. Other people/ethnicities/nationalities have their own

problems.

If you stop equating being labeled as ANNOYING with someone hating you, suddently the world will look like a much nicer place.

Try it and you won't have to pay any psychiatrist, Jewish or otherwise

Surely having so many Dear Jewish friends, is incompatible with

"I have nothing against Jewish tradition, religion"

"I only find people like you with countless, obsessive replies"

"The same goes for the rest of Jewish crying"

"It's simply ANNOYING! Nothing more, certainly no hatred. Only desire not to hear any more of Jewish agenda." REALLY?

"Have you ever heard "live and let live?" Jewish problems are not everyone's problems. Other people/ethnicities/nationalities have their own

problems"

Are you sure you have many Dear Jewish friends, you don't come across as too friendly. Just sayin!

Obviously his dear Jewish friends don't cry "antisemite!" at every negative comment against Jews or Israel.

People need to get a thicker skin.

[samran]

I never said you hate Jews dude. I only said that saying nobody hates Jews as you did is MORONIC.

This topic is about some Jews and it's a problem to hear from some Jews here? That is ridiculous.

Back to the topic people calling these rabbis pedos should be ashamed of themselves.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

strip away the religious trappings for a moment and imagine for a moment if this 'proceedure' was invented today.

People would call it out for what it is.

Now I like your thinking on most posts and I'm a pretty big fan of Israel for a number of reasons.

But reading your replies on this thread and 'the boy who cried wolf' comes to mind. Anti-semite is a powerful term. Use it when it is deserved. It isn't here. You cheapen it otherwise.

[Jingthing]

I never said you hate Jews dude. I only said that saying nobody hates Jews as you did is MORONIC.

This topic is about some Jews and it's a problem to hear from some Jews here? That is ridiculous.

Back to the topic people calling these rabbis pedos should be ashamed of themselves.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

strip away the religious trappings for a moment and imagine for a moment if this 'proceedure' was invented today.

People would call it out for what it is.

Now I like your thinking on most posts and I'm a pretty big fan of Israel for a number of reasons.

But reading your replies on this thread and 'the boy who cried wolf' comes to mind. Anti-semite is a powerful term. Use it when it is deserved. It isn't here. You cheapen it otherwise.

You said that before.

It's an ancient ritual. It wasn't invented today.

In the U.S. context which has freedom of religion you are allowed to create a modern religion.

The bar for that is not high! For example -- SCIENTOLOGY.

Now if such a new religion had some odd religious rituals they would be evaluated on the basis of whether it was a legit religion or not and also just how out there the practice was.

If it was judged that a religion was created only as a cover to make illicit drug use or sexual practices legal ... that would surely run afoul of the law in the U.S.

The oral suction ritual did have a RATIONALE way back when (not now).

It is not conceivable that a new religion to rationalize the exact same ritual based on the ancient rationales of these ultra orthodox rabbis. It would never happen. So that's your answer -- it would never happen in the first place.

You say call it out for what it is. What is it? It's an ancient ritual that had the rationale of an ancient ritual (but not now). What it is NOT is pederasty. That's my objection here .... the outrageous false accusations that these rabbis are sex criminals for performing these rituals. That is very wrong.

Now if you're asking me if I think people throwing obviously inflammatory pedo accusations at rabbis for doing religious rituals are likely to be motivated by antisemitism -- yes, I do think that.

These rituals obviously are not sex acts to anyone considering them objectively ... so if my theory isn't correct about what motivates people to throw those false charges, why do they do it then?

They are not only insulting the rabbis but also the families at the bris parties who are celebrating a joyous occasion in their religious belief. To call the rabbis pedos is to also accuse the families of paying the rabbis a nice amount of money to be a pedo with their baby boy and have a party about that.

Now if you just want to criticize the health aspects of the practice, I would agree 100 percent. It should not be done based on that.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

The topic relates the one second of oral suction done at public family events only (by a small minority of religious Jews). Is that a sex crime or not? Not.

Now if you want to talk about criminalizing spreading diseases from this archaic now obviously irrational practice, that is a defensible POV.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[englishoak]

Does it have a place in civilised society or not ? Is it fundamental and essential to the faith in any shape or form whatsoever or not in the modern world ?... Not

Whilst its clear you dont really advocate it you do stop short of condemning it as an unnecessary and barbaric act in this day and age. since there are many atheists I am quite happy to call fruitcakes or condemn for out of date barbaric behaviour, I can only assume its due to sharing a common faith..... i cannot fathom why thats a reason though personally.

[Jingthing]

Does it have a place in civilised society or not ? Is it fundamental and essential to the faith in any shape or form whatsoever or not in the modern world ?... Not

Whilst its clear you dont really advocate it you do stop short of condemning it as an unnecessary and barbaric act in this day and age. since there are many atheists I am quite happy to call fruitcakes or condemn for out of date barbaric behaviour, I can only assume its due to sharing a common faith..... i cannot fathom why thats a reason though personally.

Does it have a place in civilised society or not ?

No.

Is it fundamental and essential to the faith in any shape or form whatsoever or not in the modern world ?... Not

It is important to this small minority of Jews. So you can't say no if that's what they believe.

Whilst its clear you dont really advocate it you do stop short of condemning it as an unnecessary and barbaric act in this day and age. since there are many atheists I am quite happy to call fruitcakes or condemn for out of date barbaric behaviour, I can only assume its due to sharing a common faith..... i cannot fathom why thats a reason though personally.

More BS. I do condemn it. I do oppose it. I do think it should be totally stopped. But living in the real world, this small minority of rabbis are still going to do it, illegal or not. So New York decided to take a more pragmatic approach and balance the religious freedom factor.

I also condemn trollish attempts here to label ritual oral suction in Orthodox circumcision as a sex act or a sex crime.

Is it barbaric? That's a loaded word. Is it equivalent to stoning women to death? Not a chance.

I am not going to entertain responding to your attempt at personalization.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

The topic relates the one second of oral suction done at public family events only (by a small minority of religious Jews). Is that a sex crime or not? Not.

Now if you want to talk about criminalizing spreading diseases from this archaic now obviously irrational practice, that is a defensible POV.

The point, and this is the gist of the OP, is that the religious leaders will not have it criminalised.

They put political pressure on the authorities.

THAT is what is disgusting, that they can keep up a practice that can result in death, because they have political power.

[Seastallion]

Does it have a place in civilised society or not ? Is it fundamental and essential to the faith in any shape or form whatsoever or not in the modern world ?... Not

Whilst its clear you dont really advocate it you do stop short of condemning it as an unnecessary and barbaric act in this day and age. since there are many atheists I am quite happy to call fruitcakes or condemn for out of date barbaric behaviour, I can only assume its due to sharing a common faith..... i cannot fathom why thats a reason though personally.

Does it have a place in civilised society or not ?

No.

Is it fundamental and essential to the faith in any shape or form whatsoever or not in the modern world ?... Not

It is important to this small minority of Jews. So you can't say no if that's what they believe.

Whilst its clear you dont really advocate it you do stop short of condemning it as an unnecessary and barbaric act in this day and age. since there are many atheists I am quite happy to call fruitcakes or condemn for out of date barbaric behaviour, I can only assume its due to sharing a common faith..... i cannot fathom why thats a reason though personally.

More BS. I do condemn it. I do oppose it. I do think it should be totally stopped. But living in the real world, this small minority of rabbis are still going to do it, illegal or not. So New York decided to take a more pragmatic approach and balance the religious freedom factor.

I also condemn trollish attempts here to label ritual oral suction in Orthodox circumcision as a sex act or a sex crime.

Is it barbaric? That's a loaded word. Is it equivalent to stoning women to death? Not a chance.

I am not going to entertain responding to your attempt at personalization.

It's rather defeatist, and in a way condoning, to say that if they are going to do it anyway, then so be it.

To say New York is simply being pragmatic is making excuses. If it causes babies to die, it should be stopped. Period.

The question should be, why is NY being that sort of "pragmatic"? Babies, Jewish babies, will die!

It's incredible.

[samran]

I never said you hate Jews dude. I only said that saying nobody hates Jews as you did is MORONIC.

This topic is about some Jews and it's a problem to hear from some Jews here? That is ridiculous.

Back to the topic people calling these rabbis pedos should be ashamed of themselves.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

strip away the religious trappings for a moment and imagine for a moment if this 'proceedure' was invented today.

People would call it out for what it is.

Now I like your thinking on most posts and I'm a pretty big fan of Israel for a number of reasons.

But reading your replies on this thread and 'the boy who cried wolf' comes to mind. Anti-semite is a powerful term. Use it when it is deserved. It isn't here. You cheapen it otherwise.

You said that before.

It's an ancient ritual. It wasn't invented today.

In the U.S. context which has freedom of religion you are allowed to create a modern religion.

The bar for that is not high! For example -- SCIENTOLOGY.

Now if such a new religion had some odd religious rituals they would be evaluated on the basis of whether it was a legit religion or not and also just how out there the practice was.

If it was judged that a religion was created only as a cover to make illicit drug use or sexual practices legal ... that would surely run afoul of the law in the U.S.

The oral suction ritual did have a RATIONALE way back when (not now).

It is not conceivable that a new religion to rationalize the exact same ritual based on the ancient rationales of these ultra orthodox rabbis. It would never happen. So that's your answer -- it would never happen in the first place.

You say call it out for what it is. What is it? It's an ancient ritual that had the rationale of an ancient ritual (but not now). What it is NOT is pederasty. That's my objection here .... the outrageous false accusations that these rabbis are sex criminals for performing these rituals. That is very wrong.

Now if you're asking me if I think people throwing obviously inflammatory pedo accusations at rabbis for doing religious rituals are likely to be motivated by antisemitism -- yes, I do think that.

These rituals obviously are not sex acts to anyone considering them objectively ... so if my theory isn't correct about what motivates people to throw those false charges, why do they do it then?

They are not only insulting the rabbis but also the families at the bris parties who are celebrating a joyous occasion in their religious belief. To call the rabbis pedos is to also accuse the families of paying the rabbis a nice amount of money to be a pedo with their baby boy and have a party about that.

Now if you just want to criticize the health aspects of the practice, I would agree 100 percent. It should not be done based on that.

Health aspects it is a no brainer. It should be banned on these grounds alone.

More broadly however: To expose children like that in this day and age is vile. Whether the practitioner gets sexual satisfaction out of it is neither here no there. But to me, it doesn't pass the sniff test. Most people would be revolted at the thought of doing that to a child in that manner. That the families support it is even more sickening. As a parent of three children, I shake my head in disbelief.

As for religious leaders needing to be respected, all organised religions need a shake up. As a catholic, I know better than most the dangers of having your practices and traditions stuck in the middle ages. To criticise people on that basis, shouldn't be construed as anything more than it should be: justified.

[JingerBen]

This is a widespread practice among Orthodox Jews all over the world. Contrary views expressed on this thread are inaccurate.

The New York case shows how much power the Jews of that city have. They effectively blocked legislation that would have outlawed the traditional ritual that so many people [including some Jews] consider repugnant.

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory, troll posts and replies removed.

[Bwanatickey]

How do you circumcise a Sperm whale?

You send down Four Skin divers.

[Seastallion]

Does it have a place in civilised society or not ? Is it fundamental and essential to the faith in any shape or form whatsoever or not in the modern world ?... Not

Whilst its clear you dont really advocate it you do stop short of condemning it as an unnecessary and barbaric act in this day and age. since there are many atheists I am quite happy to call fruitcakes or condemn for out of date barbaric behaviour, I can only assume its due to sharing a common faith..... i cannot fathom why thats a reason though personally.

Does it have a place in civilised society or not ?

No.

Is it fundamental and essential to the faith in any shape or form whatsoever or not in the modern world ?... Not

It is important to this small minority of Jews. So you can't say no if that's what they believe.

Whilst its clear you dont really advocate it you do stop short of condemning it as an unnecessary and barbaric act in this day and age. since there are many atheists I am quite happy to call fruitcakes or condemn for out of date barbaric behaviour, I can only assume its due to sharing a common faith..... i cannot fathom why thats a reason though personally.

More BS. I do condemn it. I do oppose it. I do think it should be totally stopped. But living in the real world, this small minority of rabbis are still going to do it, illegal or not. So New York decided to take a more pragmatic approach and balance the religious freedom factor.

I also condemn trollish attempts here to label ritual oral suction in Orthodox circumcision as a sex act or a sex crime.

Is it barbaric? That's a loaded word. Is it equivalent to stoning women to death? Not a chance.

I am not going to entertain responding to your attempt at personalization.

" It is important to this small minority of Jews. So you can't say no if that's what they believe."

And what about FGM? Using your reasoning, and especially since it probably affects the belief of a greater number of people, society should not prohibit it.... and even more especially since people don't die from it.

I do not believe you'd support the lifting of the ban on FGM, I doubt any here would. So.....why your stance quoted above, especially since babies will die?