Uk settlement Visa

[daveyravey]

I have been living in Thailand with my wife for 5 years.

We have 2 kids who already have British passports.

I have decided in this uncertain climate to return home to the UK

with my family, so i will need to apply for settlement visa for my wife.

When i first married 5 years ago my wife was refused a holiday visa twice,

however i appealed this in the UK and the visa was subsequently given.

My wife then came to the UK for a short holiday and left as per the visa.

I currently earn more than the minimum amount in the UK required.

I own a 4 bed house in the UK and have done so for the past 10 years.

Having had a bad experience with the refusal before my question is do you guys

think i can do the application myself without using an agent?

Can someone outline useful pointers for me if i do it myself.Common mistakes etc

What is a probable timescale of getting the visa?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[theoldgit]

An good agent will probably advise you that you could to it yourself, providing you meet the criteria and have all the evidence a visa will be issued, at the end of the day it's your choice.

You might find this pinned topic helpful http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/524561-uk-settlement-visa-basics/

I wouldn't worry too much about the earlier refusal, they are very different beasts.

Not sure about the timescale but I think they have been a tad quicker of late.

Have a read through the pinned topic and come back if you have any specific questions.

[bigyin]

Good advice as always from theoldgit. I have just handed in a settlement visa application for my wife and stepdaughter so any specific questions can probably be answered. I did it myself but it is a matter of choice. Having said that I know of 2 applicants recently who used agents and were unsuccessful so using an agent is no guarantee of success.

[daveyravey]

Ok i have decided to handle this myself.

Am i right in saying step 1 is to get the TB test done?

Step 2 is to apply online?

When and how to i arrange the english test?

Thanks

[theoldgit]

I would certainly get the English test and TB screening before you make the application.

The testing procedure is changing next month, you might want to read through this thread important-changes-to-the-uk-a1-level-english-tests-for-settlement-visas/

The details regarding the TB testing can be found here UK visa TB clinics in Thailand

[bigyin]

The TB test is likely to be straightforward but the English test most certainly is not so I would try to get that out of the way first. I don't know how good your wife's reading and writing is in English but if it is not so good then there is a chance of failure first time round. Most of the test as it currently stands involves reading and writing which makes it hard for people who have a different alphabet. After you have done the English test, get the TB done...it is valid for 6 months and then start assembling the supporting documents. I would not consider applying until you have everything ready as it takes a lot of time and effort to get everything gathered together. Good luck!

[7by7]

Although all approved English test providers in Thailand currently, no doubt for their own commercial reasons, insist that candidates take reading and writing, only speaking and listening is required for the visa.

UKVI have confirmed that as long as speaking and listening are passed, it doesn't matter if the reading and writing elements are failed; even if that means no actual pass certificate is issued.

This was confirmed by them some time ago by email, see the pinned topic, but is also clearly stated on page 1 of the list of approved providers.

Spouse & partner: If you intend to apply under the spouse and partner route you must provide evidence that you have passed the speaking and listening components of a test at level A1 or above. You do not need to demonstrate reading and writing skills. Where a test examines all four components (speaking, listening, reading and writing) you do not need to pass the reading and writing components, you only need to evidence passing the speaking and listening components.

Obviously reading and writing will be required to pass the LitUK test for ILR, but one's got at least 5 years in the UK to get that done.

[bigyin]

Yes 7by7 I know that they don't use those parts but having sat with 7 or 8 very stressed out Thai ladies at Vantage Siam last September the very fact that they have to take these parts of the test has an adverse effect on their performance. They also do need to read the multi choice questions to do some of the listening parts of the test so reading English is a factor.. Bearing in mind that well over half of the time on the test is spent actually reading or writing you can imagine the effect this has. 1 poor lady was so stressed out that she actually had difficulty breathing before going in to do her first interview session. It is not an easy test as currently constituted. So you are technically correct but as explained it is not the whole story.

[7by7]

I can understand how it can be stressful; but some simple research by them or their sponsors and they would know that their performance in the reading and writing elements were irrelevant.

Would that not remove most of the stress?

Edited March 5, 2015 by 7by7

[bigyin]

My wife was full prepped about what was required..can't speak for the rest but she was a nervous wreck and as I said they do have to be able to read English to do the multi choice listening questions. I do not believe anyone should take this test thinking that reading and writing is irrelevant because it isn't. They must be able to read English to do the Key English Test which was the one my wife took. The tests are intrinsically not fit for purpose and I am not sure whether the changes in the pipeline will do anything to improve this.

[durhamboy]

7by7 - bigyin is absolutely correct in what he is saying. In a nutshell, the candidate has to read the questions to pass speaking and listening. I have been banging on about this for about 2 years now but you still seem not to be understanding the problems with these tests. I think this is partly because your wife never had to take it. Please listen to what I, bigyin and others are saying - the tests are not fit for purpose and cause unnecessary stress. Thank you.

[theoldgit]

I think that is a valid and relevant argument, durhamboy, and one I made in another thread about the new testing partners.

The fact that an applicant outside of the UK who wishes to take the English oral test has to take a reading and writing element of the test, that isn't required by the UKVI and that they don't actually need to pass, quite frankly beggars belief.

The application process is already quite strenuous and adding to this by allowing companies to seemingly dictate the policy because the UKVI cannot, or will not, negotiate an acceptable test is a disgrace.

I have heard through the grapevine that there are plans afoot to introduce an acceptable test, but I haven't heard it from a reliable source.

To be fair on 7by7, I don't think he's defending the policy.

[bigyin]

I don't think 7by7 is defending the policy either but I do think it is important that anyone reading these threads understands what is involved in taking the tests. It would be a terrible shock to someone if they went into the test expecting to only have to worry about speaking and listening. Something else I didn't mention is that at no time on the day of the test or on the prep days was it spelled out to the applicants that they didn't have to worry about the reading and writing. It is presented as 1 test which has to be passed in its entirety. As stated above the tests are a disgrace and not fit for purpose.

[7by7]

I am certainly not defending the way the tests are administered in Thailand, or anywhere else.

As I said above, the test providers doubtless insist on reading and writing being taken for their own commercial reasons, to which I'd add that UKVI can't be arsed to make them change (although from theoldgit's post above, they may sometime in the future do so).

My point is; if candidates know in advance that their result in reading and writing is totally irrelevant, then this would remove most of the stress involved when they take those elements.

It is disgraceful that the providers don't tell candidates this; it is disgraceful that people have to research on this or similar forums to find it out.

Durhamboy, it is true my wife obtained both her ILR and her British citizenship before these tests were introduced; but I do know plenty of people who have had to sit the A1 test for an initial visa and the B1 and the LitUK test for ILR and discussed the experience with them. So I do have some knowledge of what it is like.

My aim is to offer encouragement to people; to show them that whilst they may very well have to study and work for it, a positive result is achievable.

I have to say, from your remarks whenever this subject comes up, I do sometimes wonder if that is also your aim!

[bigyin]

I accept everything you say 7by7 and your advice on these forums has been invaluable to me and I assume many others but the inescapable fact is that there is at the very least a reading element to this test when there shouldn't be and I would not want anyone to go into this test thinking otherwise. In addition the applicants get caught up in the test and they don't have the time during the test to say to themselves 'this doesn't matter' because at that moment in time it does. No amount of telling them in advance helps when they are in there and being made to feel stupid by things like creating an e mail headed with 'Dear Sir' and ending 'yours faithfully' . It is irrelevant and actually not good English...who does that in an e mail? I think in actual fact everyone is in broad agreement it is just that some of us think the test is harder on the Thai applicants than perhaps you do. That doesn't matter really as long as anyone who reads this or other threads understands that the Thai applicant has to be able to read English to get A1 whatever UKVI may say. They do not create or administer the tests.

[daveyravey]

Has anyone got a link to a suitable english test in Bangkok? Thanks

[7by7]

See this post.

[durhamboy]

7by7 - you say above :-

"My aim is to offer encouragement to people; to show them that whilst they may very well have to study and work for it, a positive result is achievable.

I have to say, from your remarks whenever this subject comes up, I do sometimes wonder if that is also your aim!"

Let me tell you that my aim is to highlight the difficulties and absurdities of these tests. You, and others, seem to be blaming the test providers for the problems e.g. the candidates having to take reading and writing. That is a distortion of the situation. The current tests have been operating for far longer than the English requirement for UK visas. They were never designed for visa purposes. They were designed for use of English in business hence the need to pass reading and writing and hence the need to understand business scenarios and compose business style emails etc.

So don't blame the providers, blame the UKVI for taking the cheap option and piggybacking on existing tests that are not fit for purpose. They could and should have designed there own simple English test that just involved speaking and listening. I am sure that had they done so then the test providers would have been only to happy to add them to the range of tests that they provide. HMG designed the LITUK test so why not an English test?

The English test is an absolute shambles and it is not helped when respected forum members such as yourself post very misleading information and observations about the test. So my aim is to counter-balance what you say so that candidates have some idea of what they are letting themselves in for.

[daveyravey]

This topic can now be closed. I have decided to take my wife to Spain on an EU spouse visa instead. Thanks for all your input.

[bigyin]

daveyravey I bet you didn't realise what a can of worms you would open when you started the thread!

[7by7]

durhamboy, I recommend the serenity prayer to you:

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

[durhamboy]

In other words 7by7 you have not got anything useful to counter what I said to you above.

Instead you make a snotty little reference to a prayer that is noted for being used by Alcoholics Anonymous!

Usually I can see your point of view when you post something although I do not necessarily agree with it. This latest offering completely baffles me.

Btw, I don't have a problem and I hope you don't.

[MaprangHolmes]

7by7 - you say above :-

"My aim is to offer encouragement to people; to show them that whilst they may very well have to study and work for it, a positive result is achievable.

I have to say, from your remarks whenever this subject comes up, I do sometimes wonder if that is also your aim!"

Let me tell you that my aim is to highlight the difficulties and absurdities of these tests. You, and others, seem to be blaming the test providers for the problems e.g. the candidates having to take reading and writing. That is a distortion of the situation. The current tests have been operating for far longer than the English requirement for UK visas. They were never designed for visa purposes. They were designed for use of English in business hence the need to pass reading and writing and hence the need to understand business scenarios and compose business style emails etc.

So don't blame the providers, blame the UKVI for taking the cheap option and piggybacking on existing tests that are not fit for purpose. They could and should have designed there own simple English test that just involved speaking and listening. I am sure that had they done so then the test providers would have been only to happy to add them to the range of tests that they provide. HMG designed the LITUK test so why not an English test?

The English test is an absolute shambles and it is not helped when respected forum members such as yourself post very misleading information and observations about the test. So my aim is to counter-balance what you say so that candidates have some idea of what they are letting themselves in for.

You could well be right about the English tests but at the end of the day you are required to take them for the purpose of settlement and to be honest A1 is not really very hard to achieve. Then having to improve onto B1 or entry level 3 again is not that hard with a bit of work. I feel that the English requirement is set far to low the point is that the person should be able to integrate which would not be very easy if the person only has a very basic understanding of English. They should extend this requirement to everyone not just to people that come from out of the EU if a person really wants to settle in the UK they should at least be able to communicate with other people

[bigyin]

Sorry but it is just not correct to say that the A1 is easy to achieve. We have been through all this earlier in the thread and the point is that despite only requiring listening and speaking for visa purposes the tests require a level of reading to answer the listening element and the Thai applicants are tested on all 4 disciplines. For applicants with a completely different alphabet it is unnecessarily difficult. As an addition to this a UK citizen should be able to take their wife/husband back to the UK as a right and there should be no bar to negotiate be it high or low. My wife as an example can communicate perfectly well with me but she found the test very difficult. The point being made here is that the test is not testing the Thai applicants' ability to communicate adequately but far more than that.

[MaprangHolmes]

Sorry but it is just not correct to say that the A1 is easy to achieve. We have been through all this earlier in the thread and the point is that despite only requiring listening and speaking for visa purposes the tests require a level of reading to answer the listening element and the Thai applicants are tested on all 4 disciplines. For applicants with a completely different alphabet it is unnecessarily difficult. As an addition to this a UK citizen should be able to take their wife/husband back to the UK as a right and there should be no bar to negotiate be it high or low. My wife as an example can communicate perfectly well with me but she found the test very difficult. The point being made here is that the test is not testing the Thai applicants' ability to communicate adequately but far more than that.

The thing with tests is that some people are always going to find them hard but if you put the work in beforehand and practice achieving A1 is really not that hard. Thais have to do all 4 tests but only 2 are counted so the other 2 do not really matter, you could if you so desire just sit there and don't do them as it has know bearing on the necessary tests.

[bigyin]

That is just not correct. To do part of the listening test they have to be able to read the multi choice answers. Nobody could pass this test without some reading ability in English at least.

[durhamboy]

Yes bigyin that is correct. Unfortunately some people in this forum (I suspect it is those whose Thai partners never had to take these tests in Thailand) do not seem to understand that you have to READ THE QUESTIONS in order to answer the questions in the SPEAKING & LISTENING SECTIONS. There I cannot be any clearer than that!

Obviously Thais use a completely different alphabet so it is very difficult for them.

MaprangHolmes makes the point that the passmark is low. That is true to an extent. When my wife did the Listening test (both TOEIC and BULATS) the passmark was as I recall 12% for 4 option multi-choice answers i.e. a,b,c or d. Therefore if you just randomly guessed every answer you would, on average, get 25% i.e. more than twice the passmark! Ridiculously easy and actually made a mockery of that part of the exam!

However, Speaking was another matter. The passmark was far higher and a lot harder to achieve and had questions with very much a business flavour to them. One I remember was that you worked for a bank and a customer rings up to say they had lost their cashcard in one of the banks ATMs and they were going on holiday the next day - advise them. So my wife had to READ this question, understand it and say what she would do. Now my wife is very intelligent, used to run 3 different businesses and spoke German and Japanese to a reasonable degree of fluency. She failed.

So please do not tell us that these tests are easy.

[bigyin]

Thanks durhamboy and just to expand on that the current test which most people do I think is the Key English Test (KET) and for this the A1 mark is 45 out of 100 so not particularly low and the mark is an overall score for the whole test. There are no scores for the individual parts just a candidate profile giving an indication that weak or better was achieved for each part. It sounds like up to now each change has actually made the test harder, not easier. We will have to wait and see what the latest change brings. I would be interested to hear if anyone's partner has scored less than 45 overall in the KET but got a visa on the strength of the candidate profile. My wife for example did pass with a score overall of 59. She attained good in speaking, weak/borderline in listening and just above weak in reading and writing. But if she had not got over 45 with below weak in reading and writing would the profile showing good and borderline/weak in speaking and listening have got her through? My understanding as well is that the ECO goes online to Cambridge English to verify the results so what do they get from them? The overall score or the individual elements on the candidate profile? The whole thing is a minefield and my concern is that someone reads a thread like this and things it is an easy pass. It is not.

[MaprangHolmes]

Yes bigyin that is correct. Unfortunately some people in this forum (I suspect it is those whose Thai partners never had to take these tests in Thailand) do not seem to understand that you have to READ THE QUESTIONS in order to answer the questions in the SPEAKING & LISTENING SECTIONS. There I cannot be any clearer than that!

Obviously Thais use a completely different alphabet so it is very difficult for them.

MaprangHolmes makes the point that the passmark is low. That is true to an extent. When my wife did the Listening test (both TOEIC and BULATS) the passmark was as I recall 12% for 4 option multi-choice answers i.e. a,b,c or d. Therefore if you just randomly guessed every answer you would, on average, get 25% i.e. more than twice the passmark! Ridiculously easy and actually made a mockery of that part of the exam!

However, Speaking was another matter. The passmark was far higher and a lot harder to achieve and had questions with very much a business flavour to them. One I remember was that you worked for a bank and a customer rings up to say they had lost their cashcard in one of the banks ATMs and they were going on holiday the next day - advise them. So my wife had to READ this question, understand it and say what she would do. Now my wife is very intelligent, used to run 3 different businesses and spoke German and Japanese to a reasonable degree of fluency. She failed.

So please do not tell us that these tests are easy.

My wife had to do the test in Bangkok for her settlement visa and then had to do B1 or entry level 3 in the UK to get her ILR and also the LIfe in the Uk test. If your partner really is unable to read anything in English than how do you propose that she or he is going to be able to pass the tests that are required to stay in the UK?

Edited March 9, 2015 by MaprangHolmes

[bigyin]

Now you have changed the argument. Previously you said that you could just sit back and do nothing on the reading and writing..now you are saying that if you cannot read English how can you pass the tests for ILR. The 2 points are not in any way comparable. Firstly you have 5 years to prepare for the B1 test and the LITUK test after attaining A1 so plenty of time to improve. Secondly there is no actual requirement to be able to read and write English for a settlement visa so why should an applicant have to do that? It is utterly illogical! My wife can communicate in a most satisfactory way in terms of speaking and listening but reading and writing is not easy. She can do it and in 5 years time I don't have the slightest doubt she will be able to achieve both B1 and pass LITUK. But that is not the point...there is no current requirement for the applicant to be able to read and write English to obtain a settlement visa yet the test expects them to be able to do so.