US must not impose its idea of democracy: PM

[lucky11]

The idea of fiefdoms, mass corruption and military coups aren't uncommon in the west, they just happened 500 or so years ago

Democracy doesn't work in Asia? Japan and South Korea are doing well with it, places like Taiwan and Hong Kong too.

This East and West stuff is just a poor excuse for this man to consolidate power for his 'team' of elites so that they never lose their grip of power. This kind of Rhetoric is like the stuff the Kim family says in North Korea. Thailand pretty much is diet North Korea in some ways.

Some fools on here though think this man is a 'hero' and 'cleaning up' Thailand. They should read there (uncensored) Thai history to know that the previous 19 coups did nothing but benefit the traditional elite.

Is life better for Thais after the coup or prior to it?

The polls seem to suggest the former - please tell me if you can give me another example whereby the citizens are wanting marshal law to stay in place.

He is implementing policies so that ALL Thais will benefit not just the few. All this crap about elitism is nonsense. One of the most elitist families in Thailand is the Shinawatras so have a go at them if you want to criticise elitism. They are your enemy not a general with good intentions that is sorting things out!!!

It don't even regard it as a coup as such as no government was turfed out being that Thailand didn't have one at the time, he gave them two chances to fix their childish squabbling, saw it wasn't going to happen so he made them stand in the corner with dunces hats on and entered the fray to a heroes welcome (apart from those that had their money making corrupt practices stopped).

I am most impressed at his complete dismantling of Thaksin's private army, they are now doing their jobs and aren't threatening people any more. If the new brigade aren't up to it then it 'goodbye jose' and bring someone in who is prepared to do so.

This 'coup' is very much different from the others - I term it a necessary transformation to better governance. He is seemingly doing more for Thailand than any other PM in the world is/has over the last 20 years!! Not bad for a novice.

[Baerboxer]

Anybody who still believes that there is such a thing as democracy in the US or other similar countries is very deluded.

Yu'p Thailand is different, and so is the EU and UK, NZ, AU, and Timbuktu is different as is every other country out there, so quite right, one size dose not fit all.

Now for the kicker, basic rights and freedoms that should come with any attempted legitimizing of a democracy, otherwise your just taking the p*ss.

I don't have a dog in the fight, so my opinion's have not one ounce of weight in the current situation, nor it's past or future, and a mature government would see that, UNLIKE some people here that openly call here on TV for the searching, detention and deportation from the country of some people as they don't agree with their views, and when called out on it try's to spin it instead of backing it up and the MODS need to do something about that, ie rules, ( not criticizing, just a suggestion)

Most of us are individuals, (people of the world) we have our own opinions and moral values, we set our own standards just as different countries do, Thailand is a sovereign nation and sets it own standards.

As for linking aid and politics, in this case the US has it's own laws it must follow and that of aid to a country under a military coup's weather the government like it or not.

alex88, " Anybody who still believes that there is such a thing as democracy in the US or other similar countries is very deluded".

Please , tell me why Australia is not a democracy?

The EU is not a country and neither is Timbuktu.

Ignoring the incomprehensible rant in the middle, as far as Australia being a democracy - go and ask the Aboriginal people how they feel about that one.

[Baerboxer]

The United States is not a democracy. It is a republic. Voters elect liars people to represent them in congress and the White House.

If the US were a democracy, we would not be going to war continuously; creating a pubic debt of tens of trillions of now worthless dollars; nor allowing illegal immigrants good jobs and social security and free school and medical.

No, Mr Couper, the US is not a democracy.

That is why it is doomed.

But then, Thailand ain't one either.

1. The governmental system in US is a democracy.

2. The word republic means nothing in this argument.

3. The people choose and elect who they want to office. That's a basic principle of a democratic society/government. Freedom to choose.

4. In the dictionary meaning of democracy, the word war is not found.

5. You need to read this: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

No need to cry Chicken Little just yet, the US isnt doomed. And for the record, it is the world's strongest economy and the dollar is what currency the world uses for trade.

If you are going to argue a topic at least have one sentence that is true

Your first point is incorrect.

The US is not a democracy but a republic of states.

If you are going to argue at least try and do some real research rather than claiming something is what it isn't and hoping to get away with it.

[Fat Haggis]

Lee Kuan Yew have said this very same thing so many years ago, that Western concept of democracy and human rights will not work in Asia.

Doesn't work in Arabic countries either but at least they're willing to give it a try. The biggest cry is coming from farangs who left their own wonderfully democratic countries behind and gave up the rights to make comparisons by leaving !!

[MILT]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

THE UNITED STATES should not try to impose a one-size-fits-all democracy on the rest of the world, Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha said yesterday.

The USA is doing no such thing wrt Thailand, so yet another strawman argument and another attempt to make outsiders the boogyeman from the unelected 'PM'.

Martial law for 10 months, .... suspension of basic human rights... the General finds time to even let the word "democracy" cross his lips under these circumstances??? alt=whistling.gif>

....and...and no innocent people dying in the name of Thaskinomics or Democarcy...

Edited March 14, 2015 by MILT

[rotary]

Bill Clinton

[Fat Haggis]

Anybody who still believes that there is such a thing as democracy in the US or other similar countries is very deluded.

Yu'p Thailand is different, and so is the EU and UK, NZ, AU, and Timbuktu is different as is every other country out there, so quite right, one size dose not fit all.

Now for the kicker, basic rights and freedoms that should come with any attempted legitimizing of a democracy, otherwise your just taking the p*ss.

I don't have a dog in the fight, so my opinion's have not one ounce of weight in the current situation, nor it's past or future, and a mature government would see that, UNLIKE some people here that openly call here on TV for the searching, detention and deportation from the country of some people as they don't agree with their views, and when called out on it try's to spin it instead of backing it up and the MODS need to do something about that, ie rules, ( not criticizing, just a suggestion)

Most of us are individuals, (people of the world) we have our own opinions and moral values, we set our own standards just as different countries do, Thailand is a sovereign nation and sets it own standards.

As for linking aid and politics, in this case the US has it's own laws it must follow and that of aid to a country under a military coup's weather the government like it or not.

alex88, " Anybody who still believes that there is such a thing as democracy in the US or other similar countries is very deluded".

Please , tell me why Australia is not a democracy?

The EU is not a country and neither is Timbuktu.

Ignoring the incomprehensible rant in the middle, as far as Australia being a democracy - go and ask the Aboriginal people how they feel about that one.

You're unbelievable at times, what about asking the Native Americans how they feel as well seeing as you love to make absurd comparisons, and seeing this is all about Thailand and the Thais, why don't you it up to them?

Just to add, you're life must be pretty dull in Thailand as all you seem to do is complain about everything that isn't on parr with Western values too.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Fat Haggis

[laubau]

trogers, on 14 Mar 2015 - 04:14, said:

Lee Kuan Yew have said this very same thing so many years ago, that Western concept of democracy and human rights will not work in Asia.

As far as Democracy goes, Lee Kuan yew is the biggest joke in the world. I would not follow anything he said except for economic ideas unlike the sheep in Singapore. Most people in other countries would rebel if this fool's idea of Democracy was instituted, especially Thais! The number one rule of Democracy is majority rule or it is not Democracy, Plain and simple. Thailand is trying to institute minority rule!!

[umbanda]

Dear Mr. Prayuth,

In Thailand there's no democracy at all at the moment.....

Human rights are violated. Commoners are sent to military court.

The martial law is still not lifted.

So, why would you discuss with the US which kind of democracy is the best?

The US is right not letting you visit them - you're a dictator after all.

That Japan supports a dictatorship is kinda sad.

Maybe Japan is hoping for the trans-asian railway that they couldn't build during the second world war, in which Thailand chose the side of Japan.

The US is the longest dictatorship in the world..with 2 dictators..

The Republican party and the Democratic Party. Very smart way to keep a country under a Dictatorship...FOREVER.

[yellowboat]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"We told them Thailand is unlike others." Because ? Taiwan's form of democracy has drawn praise from Hong Kong and people in China. What makes Thailand incapable of achieving such results ?

Taiwan nowadays has a history of charging and strongly punishing quite a few previous leaders, especially in regard to corruption, that's certainly one reason why their version of democracy has become stronger.

Thailand now starting to do the same thing.

Thailand is going about it the wrong way; quashing free speech, bringing people in for attitude adjustment. They will not achieve the same results. The junta looks as though they just preserving the livelihood of the Thai elites.

[NeverSure]

The United States is not a democracy. It is a republic. Voters elect liars people to represent them in congress and the White House.

If the US were a democracy, we would not be going to war continuously; creating a pubic debt of tens of trillions of now worthless dollars; nor allowing illegal immigrants good jobs and social security and free school and medical.

No, Mr Couper, the US is not a democracy.

That is why it is doomed.

But then, Thailand ain't one either.

I'm sorry you feel that way about it. The founders of the US were afraid of democracy because the highly populated areas would make laws to rule the rural areas. They had other reasons but this is why each state, regardless of population, gets two senators in the Senate.

As for democracy as opposed to the republic which the US is, I like this quote - author in dispute.

"Democracy is like two wolves and a sheep voting on what is for dinner."

Cheers

[Kaalle]

I wonder if he truly is so ignorant and stupid he thinks the west will ever believe a leader who is not elected and effectively telling people what to think is working towards anything resembling democracy.

[Srikcir]

Prayut's idea that the US imposes a one-size-fits-all democracy on other nations is just a "straw man" argument. You establish is a ridiculous premise, then attact its faults.

Look at the countries that the US has had the highest regard and trade with, and you'll see a diversity of governmental systems ranging from pure democratic republics (France, Germany), to constitutional monarchies (Japan, UK), to absolute monarchies (Saudi Arabia), and to Communist governments (China, Vietnam). The US probably does hold itself out as the most refined democratic system in the world and, consistent with its open and free society, does not hesitate to tell other countries with less or no democratic governance what it thinks.

But the US still maintains a pragmatic foreign approach to secure trade and security for the nation. This is what comprises mature foreign policy - apparently not something that the Thai military can understand because it's exists in an environment of "black or white." To the military leadership, international relationships are defined as to whether you are with Thailand ("They understand") or you are against Thailand ("They do not understand"). There is no middle ground, no ambiquity. If you don't agree with the military governance, leave Thailand. That's why a civilian government is much more capable of seeing the gray areas of politics and taking the good with the bad in pursuit of a balanced foreign policy.

Prayut can decide to cut Thailand's relationship with the US if he feels so imposed and intimidated by US criticism. I am sure the US will survive both in terms of national security and trade. Unfortunately, Thailand may not survive, the Junta may not survive, and that is probably the greater frustration for Prayut. He cannot impose his brand of authoritarian government to force the US become as subservient to the Junta as it requires of the Thai people.

[rotary]

Looks like the PM's tailor has designed a new suit ....

DictatorDress.jpg

I expected to see Obama's face on top of that suit or perhaps thats a czar of speech spinning for him. ha ha

[soalbundy]

Nobody does coups quite like Thailand, in the main they are relatively bloodless, are finished quickly and no one really seems to mind, it's just the Thai way of saying '' all snouts change troughs'' afterwards it all goes back to the way it was until the other snouts get restless.

[slipperylobster]

There is no such thing as "people voting for a president" in the USA. A very misleading statement.

I found it curious to have learned this, in junior High School, taking a course on Politics. We actually vote only for the nomination of an Electoral College, who then, in turn, vote for the President. These people are unnamed....and can potentially vote any way they choose...(although I hear that they tend to follow the popular vote). Each state has a certain number of these "Electoral" votes. Not a true democracy, as there is no direct vote by the people.

Historically, voters were considered ignorant, being farmers and immigrants, by and large. That is why the system was set up by "Enlightened Philosophers" such as the signers of the "Declaration of Independence".

Of course, nowadays, you would have to go to places like "Walmart" to understand why people are still not allowed to vote directly for their President.

Edited March 14, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Exsexyman]

The only democracy people in the US, UK, Europe etc have lasts for the minute in the polling booth when they put their X against the candidate who has told the most believable lies. After that all bets are off, any promises made to secure your vote will be disappear into thin air, never to be seen again.

[SaamBaht]

Anybody who still believes that there is such a thing as democracy in the US or other similar countries is very deluded.

That's a great statement that means very little. As much as I like to criticize the US and other Western nations, those politicians there have to work their asses off to get elected. It appears liberty and the right to vote are alive and well in the West but please do detail how it's all a sham.

[Plutojames88]

The Australian Government forbid this Thai military Government from setting foot in Australia for good reason.

The same reason the Americans have issues .

It doesn't represent the Thai people and is not elected or allows freedoms.

Countries where choice is given people naturally want the freedom to decide for themselves . Removing that freedom is perceived a universal wrong doing.

To go further, and forbid protest and free speech indeed places the western world on a collision course with you.

Ironically , these same people demanded the Police not interfere with the occupation of Government buildings by protesters back in the Mass demonstrations by the Bangkok people . ( prior to Coup)

They also made sure elections could be disrupted and laws broken to do so.

They now hold people with no trial who don't approve of them .

Have polls that say they are supreme in the preferred Stakes .

And speak in double speak to create a very intense fearful climate for any opposition to work under.

Couple that with insults to long time friends and business confidence plummeting and no real move to free and fair elections ....you have a recipe fora country to become unstable.

I recently sold my Condo in Chiang Mai and have my investments in Thailand all but gone as I fear this climate and speeches that don't make for a reassuring future.

I know many westerners who are selling up major assets and renting what they need instead.

This is because of business advice stemming from overseas predicting this Government are not going to leave or relinquish power soon.

And the xenophobic tone is slowly strengthening along with their position.

If anything they are stronger and on course to maintain and keep power in Thailand without much threat.

Key players in their market ensure they will manage to maintain economic balance but perhaps at the expense of ""other factors""

Meaning rules may change overnight ...taxes implemented etc.

It's just uncertain times.

But back to the central theme of democracy ....

Without elections there is none .

And this is the case.

And worse when people can not complain it is not a Type of good will government , but rather a control by authority which is not by the people or for them.

That is the key point.

When you tell hostages "it's for their own good and be patient .."

It's simply not creditable or just or even most importantly ""legal"

At least not internationally .......

And if they can live with that , justify that , what else can they do in future?

I am not brave enough to bank on it so cashed in.

My advice is for others to ponder hard their positions .

( While you can ) .

Just an opinion of one

[HeijoshinCool]

The United States is not a democracy. It is a republic. Voters elect liars people to represent them in congress and the White House.

If the US were a democracy, we would not be going to war continuously; creating a pubic debt of tens of trillions of now worthless dollars; nor allowing illegal immigrants good jobs and social security and free school and medical.

No, Mr Couper, the US is not a democracy.

That is why it is doomed.

But then, Thailand ain't one either.

I'm sorry you feel that way about it. The founders of the US were afraid of democracy because the highly populated areas would make laws to rule the rural areas. They had other reasons but this is why each state, regardless of population, gets two senators in the Senate.

As for democracy as opposed to the republic which the US is, I like this quote - author in dispute.

"Democracy is like two wolves and a sheep voting on what is for dinner."

Cheers

.

Don't look beyond what I said above, NS. I'm simply making the point that the majority of Americans don't want war, massive debt, and illegal immigration. If the US were a democracy, these things would not exist. But they do exist, therefore America is not a democracy.

But that does not mean I think a democracy is the best form of government, I don't. I think a republic is. If the elected are patriotic Americans who genuinely want the best for their country. Which hasn't been the case in years.

Having said that, in reality, America is now neither. Today it can be classified as an oligarchy.

[2fishin2]

The United States is not a democracy. It is a republic. Voters elect liars people to represent them in congress and the White House.

If the US were a democracy, we would not be going to war continuously; creating a pubic debt of tens of trillions of now worthless dollars; nor allowing illegal immigrants good jobs and social security and free school and medical.

No, Mr Couper, the US is not a democracy.

That is why it is doomed.

But then, Thailand ain't one either.

1. The governmental system in US is a democracy.

2. The word republic means nothing in this argument.

3. The people choose and elect who they want to office. That's a basic principle of a democratic society/government. Freedom to choose.

4. In the dictionary meaning of democracy, the word war is not found.

5. You need to read this: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

No need to cry Chicken Little just yet, the US isnt doomed. And for the record, it is the world's strongest economy and the dollar is what currency the world uses for trade.

If you are going to argue a topic at least have one sentence that is true

Your first point is incorrect.

The US is not a democracy but a republic of states.

If you are going to argue at least try and do some real research rather than claiming something is what it isn't and hoping to get away with it.

Thats 2 of you to the ignore list today....

Where did I say it was a democracy? I said the "governmental system in US is a democracy".think you should calibrate your glasses.

What research do I need?

[billd766]

As always, Gen Prayut makes another unrestrained attack on the US in defense of his military-led government. His inelegant and bombastic condemnation of the US comes on the eve when a Thai delegation is going to the US to argue fair and balanced treatment on Thailand's listing with Tier 3 countries. This delegation was going to "help" the US understand that Thailand is meeting all its obligations in stopping and preventing human trafficking.

"We told them Thailand is unlike others." Thailand doesn't need US democracy but it wants unrestrictive access to all US markets.

So fine, the US is also unlike others, will also stand behind its democratic principles, and impose Tier 3 sanctions on Thailand because it DOES UNDERSTAND what Gen. Prayut stands for.

Yet the USA is quite happy to support a coup in Egypt, quite happy to support the King of Saudi Arabia that "bastion of democracy" and several other countries including supporting the people opposed to the Syrian government, it supports the Israelis against the palestinians and yet you say that the USA will stand by its "democratic principles".

How many countries has the USA invaded in the last 150 years quoting "democratic principles"?

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The idea of fiefdoms, mass corruption and military coups aren't uncommon in the west, they just happened 500 or so years ago alt=whistling.gif>

Democracy doesn't work in Asia? Japan and South Korea are doing well with it, places like Taiwan and Hong Kong too.

This East and West stuff is just a poor excuse for this man to consolidate power for his 'team' of elites so that they never lose their grip of power. This kind of Rhetoric is like the stuff the Kim family says in North Korea. Thailand pretty much is diet North Korea in some ways.

Some fools on here though think this man is a 'hero' and 'cleaning up' Thailand. They should read there (uncensored) Thai history to know that the previous 19 coups did nothing but benefit the traditional elite.

....Thai history to know that the previous 19 coups did nothing but benefit the traditional elite.

A very broad statement. And you seem to assume it's automatic that the current coup is / has to be a copy?

[Homeropec]

Well we cannot expect a more articulated discourse from the soldier Loon Praayutt.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

As always, Gen Prayut makes another unrestrained attack on the US in defense of his military-led government. His inelegant and bombastic condemnation of the US comes on the eve when a Thai delegation is going to the US to argue fair and balanced treatment on Thailand's listing with Tier 3 countries. This delegation was going to "help" the US understand that Thailand is meeting all its obligations in stopping and preventing human trafficking.

"We told them Thailand is unlike others." Thailand doesn't need US democracy but it wants unrestrictive access to all US markets.

So fine, the US is also unlike others, will also stand behind its democratic principles, and impose Tier 3 sanctions on Thailand because it DOES UNDERSTAND what Gen. Prayut stands for.

Yet the USA is quite happy to support a coup in Egypt, quite happy to support the King of Saudi Arabia that "bastion of democracy" and several other countries including supporting the people opposed to the Syrian government, it supports the Israelis against the palestinians and yet you say that the USA will stand by its "democratic principles".

How many countries has the USA invaded in the last 150 years quoting "democratic principles"?

Add Singapore and Malaysia, both have elections but in reality they are a farce, and both countries nowhere near real democracy. Does the USA say anything? Never seen it.

[Fat Haggis]

5555 isn't it funny that when people make comparisons about the red shirts stating "but this is what they have done before" or " this is how they operate " seems to be overlooked when making comparisons about this current coup!!! And all the other 18 odd coups The irony is wasted here, some posters need to do more stand up comedy!!

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The Australian Government forbid this Thai military Government from setting foot in Australia for good reason.
The same reason the Americans have issues .

It doesn't represent the Thai people and is not elected or allows freedoms.

Countries where choice is given people naturally want the freedom to decide for themselves . Removing that freedom is perceived a universal wrong doing.
To go further, and forbid protest and free speech indeed places the western world on a collision course with you.

Ironically , these same people demanded the Police not interfere with the occupation of Government buildings by protesters back in the Mass demonstrations by the Bangkok people . ( prior to Coup)

They also made sure elections could be disrupted and laws broken to do so.

They now hold people with no trial who don't approve of them .
Have polls that say they are supreme in the preferred Stakes .
And speak in double speak to create a very intense fearful climate for any opposition to work under.

Couple that with insults to long time friends and business confidence plummeting and no real move to free and fair elections ....you have a recipe fora country to become unstable.

I recently sold my Condo in Chiang Mai and have my investments in Thailand all but gone as I fear this climate and speeches that don't make for a reassuring future.

I know many westerners who are selling up major assets and renting what they need instead.
This is because of business advice stemming from overseas predicting this Government are not going to leave or relinquish power soon.
And the xenophobic tone is slowly strengthening along with their position.

If anything they are stronger and on course to maintain and keep power in Thailand without much threat.
Key players in their market ensure they will manage to maintain economic balance but perhaps at the expense of ""other factors""

Meaning rules may change overnight ...taxes implemented etc.
It's just uncertain times.

But back to the central theme of democracy ....
Without elections there is none .
And this is the case.
And worse when people can not complain it is not a Type of good will government , but rather a control by authority which is not by the people or for them.

That is the key point.
When you tell hostages "it's for their own good and be patient .."
It's simply not creditable or just or even most importantly ""legal"

At least not internationally .......

And if they can live with that , justify that , what else can they do in future?

I am not brave enough to bank on it so cashed in.
My advice is for others to ponder hard their positions .
( While you can ) .

Just an opinion of one

A very over the top negative opinion of one.

[Fat Haggis]

An opinion he's entitled to, just like yours ?

[Dustdevil]

I agree with him. The US has the worst form of democracy where a government can be bought and paid for. It was the same in Thailand also so hope he changes it for the better.

Democracy has three basic and to me universal requirements: 1. Open and honest elections, including judges and top-ranking police officials (not just the president, senators or prime ministers) 2. Accountability. Those in power can't just do anything they want. 3. Freedom of speech. Both for those in the press and individuals. In the US it is very difficult for a public figure to win a libel or slander lawsuit. This is to protect us against the wrath of the powerful. Can you even say that in countries like Sweden and Italy, where libel/slander is a criminal offense? Imperfect, of course. The "worst" form of democracy is in the US? Next time, get your facts straight before you make dumb sweeping statements.

[dominique355]

Can someone explain to me in what Thailand is so different that it cannot have a democracy. I stress "cannot" (not does not).

And while we are at it, why can Thai people not enjoy all human rights fully? Which difference prevents them from being able to be granted full human rights?

Edited March 14, 2015 by dominique355