Who will decide for you if you can't decide for yourself?

[JohnnyJazz]

Our capacity to make decisions can be affected by illness, injury or age. I'm not paranoid and there is no conspiracy theory here. I just witnessed lately a very disturbing situation. A neighbour became suddenly very ill, his family had to make some important decision on his behalf and because they were poorly advised it is my opinion they made the wrong ones.

How can I make sure that it is a person that I trust who will decide for me in the very unfortunate situation that I'm unable to decide for myself ? Will my embassy be informed if something happens to me ? Can I leave instruction there about the person to contact who could then decide for me ?

[benalibina]

Good topic. Only you can decide that in a situation where you are not able to express yourself, what it is you want to be done. And...how...ofcourse. This ofcourse by following the laws of Thailand.

How can you make sure ? Well, you need to look in your innercircle if there is somebody who you can trust to express your, on paper written, wishes in case of such a sad event happening to you.

[CharlieH]

I believe its called "A living Will" , your instructions to be carried out if you are no longer able, but are still alive.

You would need to discuss this with correct legal counsel and an appropriate adult/friend/family member that you trust.

[JohnnyJazz]

I believe its called "A living Will" , your instructions to be carried out if you are no longer able, but are still alive.

You would need to discuss this with correct legal counsel and an appropriate adult/friend/family member that you trust.

Correct legal counsel : Do you mean I should post this thread in the "ask the lawyer" section ?

Edited March 15, 2015 by JohnnyJazz

[smokie36]

Who cares?

[Beetlejuice]

Who cares?

I do.

The OP has mentioned a subject that is very concerning.

My Thai wife is not the brightest bulb in the pack and my 3 adult children all have their own busy lives to lead. If in the event I became gar gar and could not make decisions for myself, my children would probably use their own judgements that I think may not be in my best interests, or in other words if I lose the plot I think my life would turn to chaos.

Making a living will now may not be applicable in the future as circumstances can change, plus who`s to say that those nearest and dearest would follow my instructions to the letter.

I have thought about this subject in the past, and the best I can come up with it is; hope it never happens.

[MJP]

BJ's right. I don't relish the prospect of getting old stuck in Nakhon Nowhere especially with a pre-existing medical condition that renders me completely useless from time to time, with increasing frequency these days.

I'm not afraid of dying but I am afraid of becoming incapacitated and incapable over there, which has happened before and not a lot of assistance was forthcoming.

[MAJIC]

Who cares?

I do.

The OP has mentioned a subject that is very concerning.

My Thai wife is not the brightest bulb in the pack and my 3 adult children all have their own busy lives to lead. If in the event I became gar gar and could not make decisions for myself, my children would probably use their own judgements that I think may not be in my best interests, or in other words if I lose the plot I think my life would turn to chaos.

Making a living will now may not be applicable in the future as circumstances can change, plus who`s to say that those nearest and dearest would follow my instructions to the letter.

I have thought about this subject in the past, and the best I can come up with it is; hope it never happens.

The main criteria is as follows .

1.A trusted Expat from your own Country who will act for you.

2.A pre arranged Lawyer from your own Country who knows Thai law,and how to deal with your own Countries law.

3.A Lawyer who will deal with your friend having to make a Will,and pay in advance! of any updates,as they occur! (this is probably unavoidable) alterations to wills,always occur!

4. A copy of everything should be left with your wife!

Whichever way you choose,nothing will ever be the perfect answer,it's all a very daunting and complex subject,but some effort to resolve it,is better than nothing!

Good Luck.

Edited March 15, 2015 by MAJIC

[georgegeorgia]

Power of Attorney? You can make a power of attorney and lodge it with both your Western Lawyer in your own country and Thai Lawyer.

If i get sick i have a friend who can my bills etc..he has the number to both Lawyers.

Yes you need someone u can trust.

Scenarios are if you get very sick..go into a coma etc u need a power of attorney document.

[JohnnyJazz]

Who cares?

You.

A few years ago a friend of mind had a very bad accident in China. He was unconscious and taken to an hospital where a surgeon wanted to amputate his legs. It was an emergency situation and decision had to be made fast. Fortunately he was who someone who managed to contact his family back in Hong Kong. With the help of the embassy they managed to get a second opinion from a top surgeon who said there may be a chance to save the legs. They decided to take it The rehabilitation was long and painful but my friend has still his two legs.

[i claudius]

My wife ,she is intelegent and as she is close to my familly in Britain would get help from them all of whom are buisnesspeople and have the means to travel here immediatly ,but it is still a worry ,better to die quickly.

[Rancid]

Not sure about Thailand but in some Western countries if you lose mental capacity the government will step in and manage your estate.

And just like government manages pretty much everything poorly, there are some horror stories of them making a mess of that as well leading to a much smaller estate. Such as selling properties below market value, bad nursing homes and even kickbacks to the managers for such bad decisions.

Something else to think hard about if you have assets back home, ensure you are covered.

[billd766]

Who cares?

If that is your best response, why did you bother posting at all?

Very many people in Thailand care especially those with wives, children, property and land, much the same as they would back in their home countries.

[NancyL]

As a foreigner, a hospital will contact your Embassy who will contact your Next-of-Kin. If you're married that will be your wife. If you'd rather not have your wife making decisions on your behalf, then you should be planning now rather than thinking you're too young or healthy for a problem to develop. You're never too young to have a tragic accident.

The way to plan for someone else to make medical decisions on your behalf is to have a Advance Health Directive, sometimes called a Living Will. There is one on the Lanna Care Net website that has been utilized in Chiang Mai dozens of times: http://www.lannacarenet.org/lessons-learned-at-the-end-of-life/

In general, the doctors and hospitals in Thailand are very willing to accept Advance Health Directives.

Incidentally, most Embassies have a provision where you can register on-line to let them know you're in Thailand and who you'd like to designate as your Emergency Contact. For example, the U.S. calls their program S.T.E.P. http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service/smart-traveler-enrollment-program-step.html

[dotpoom]

Who cares?

The OP

[KhnomKhnom]

Best to form a good trusting bond with several people now. Write and file with a number of those people your Living Will.

If you can find a law office that will hold it for you, good idea also.

But you are in the hands of others...... trust is a rare thing. There is no guarantee of any actions given you incapacitated.

[CapeThai]

Or you can just let the Thais bury you here and enjoy permanent citizenship without any border runs at last....???

[AbeSurd]

Best to form a good trusting bond with several people now. Write and file with a number of those people your Living Will.

If you can find a law office that will hold it for you, good idea also.

But you are in the hands of others...... trust is a rare thing. There is no guarantee of any actions given you incapacitated.

However a living will won't help pay your medical bills (or any other bills) while you're incapacitated.

I believe the answer to the OP's query is: you need to make a power of attorney. Then an attorney (wife/friend/lawyer etc) of your choosing can spend your money on your behalf and make other financial decisions on your behalf while you're incapacitated.

[Daniel Ingalls]

I think it would be wise to say. Who ever is to be an inheritor to your estate knowingly, should not be the one to trust

in dealing with, Its time to "Put the Plug!" he'll never come around again!

[JohnnyJazz]

As a foreigner, a hospital will contact your Embassy who will contact your Next-of-Kin. If you're married that will be your wife. If you'd rather not have your wife making decisions on your behalf, then you should be planning now rather than thinking you're too young or healthy for a problem to develop. You're never too young to have a tragic accident.

The way to plan for someone else to make medical decisions on your behalf is to have a Advance Health Directive, sometimes called a Living Will. There is one on the Lanna Care Net website that has been utilized in Chiang Mai dozens of times: http://www.lannacarenet.org/lessons-learned-at-the-end-of-life/

In general, the doctors and hospitals in Thailand are very willing to accept Advance Health Directives.

Incidentally, most Embassies have a provision where you can register on-line to let them know you're in Thailand and who you'd like to designate as your Emergency Contact. For example, the U.S. calls their program S.T.E.P. http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service/smart-traveler-enrollment-program-step.html

Thanks a lot Nancy. That's exactly the answer I was looking for.

[colinneil]

I am incapacitated, cannot walk paralysed from the chest down.

Forget about Thais following your wishes.It wont happen, i know.

I love and trust my wife 100% she controls my money (no problem) never takes 1 baht.

I instruct her to do things for me, she discusses it with her family then they do what they want, not what i want.

In fact they never listen.

[JohnnyJazz]

I am incapacitated, cannot walk paralysed from the chest down.

Forget about Thais following your wishes.It wont happen, i know.

I love and trust my wife 100% she controls my money (no problem) never takes 1 baht.

I instruct her to do things for me, she discusses it with her family then they do what they want, not what i want.

In fact they never listen.

I fully understand what you say. I witnessed a very similar situation last week and that's what prompted me to look for someone outside of the family circle to make decision when I won't be able to do it. It's not a problem of honesty, it's just they usually take advice from the wrong people.

[snottgoblin]

Who cares?

Quite a lot of people who live in Thailand

[malt25]

Who cares?

What a grub. Now we can all see how you arrived at over 27000 posts.

[mojorison]

Excellent point of discussion. I personally have the old"do not open except in the event of blah blah blah." Letter deposited with my Australian lawyer,closest family member,wife. It's private stuff. I to have seen farang become non compus through brain injury and I have said to my missus leave the loaded glock beside the bed...or pack me of in a crate.Last thing I want for me and anyone is to be vegetative in Thailand...mind you I'd probably get countless job offers in the local amphur.

[fey]

do you know how to write a letter?

do that and tell a relative where you put it. problem solved.

[Beetlejuice]

As a foreigner, a hospital will contact your Embassy who will contact your Next-of-Kin. If you're married that will be your wife. If you'd rather not have your wife making decisions on your behalf, then you should be planning now rather than thinking you're too young or healthy for a problem to develop. You're never too young to have a tragic accident.

The way to plan for someone else to make medical decisions on your behalf is to have a Advance Health Directive, sometimes called a Living Will. There is one on the Lanna Care Net website that has been utilized in Chiang Mai dozens of times: http://www.lannacarenet.org/lessons-learned-at-the-end-of-life/

In general, the doctors and hospitals in Thailand are very willing to accept Advance Health Directives.

Incidentally, most Embassies have a provision where you can register on-line to let them know you're in Thailand and who you'd like to designate as your Emergency Contact. For example, the U.S. calls their program S.T.E.P. http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service/smart-traveler-enrollment-program-step.html

Thanks a lot Nancy. That's exactly the answer I was looking for.

Firstly, any vulnerable ex-pat who places their trust in complete strangers under the guise of unregistered outfits would be taking a huge risk, as I have mentioned many times in the past. In my opinion that`s not even an option worth taking into consideration. For me being placed at the tender mercies of strangers or self appointed do gooders would be my worst nightmare.

As regards a so-called instructional living will, this would not be worth the paper it`s printed on unless officially filed with a reputable Thai lawyer and the lawyer becomes a sort of trustee over the testators affairs or in layman`s terms given power of attorney over the testators affairs. Of course anyone who is believed can be trusted can be given power of attorney over a volatile person`s affairs.

The contacting of hospitals and embassies pertains on situations, as everyone`s circumstances is different. An embassy would not become involved with those who already have families here. Many ex-pats living in Thailand have either lost close contact with relatives abroad long ago or have no next of kin abroad. Then there are those who have no close family and friends, or perhaps just acquaintances that are the most vulnerable in Thailand.

[hhgz]

I thought you were referring to the TVers who can't decide anything, and rely on other TVers to get them through their lives. "No, the blue shirt." "No, missionary style." "No, not the green tomatoes."

[ToddinChonburi]

Allison Monkhouse Funeral services just listen to them give a presentation on this subject. They take care of Farang's

[JohnnyJazz]

Firstly, any vulnerable ex-pat who places their trust in complete strangers under the guise of unregistered outfits would be taking a huge risk, as I have mentioned many times in the past. In my opinion that`s not even an option worth taking into consideration. For me being placed at the tender mercies of strangers or self appointed do gooders would be my worst nightmare.

As regards a so-called instructional living will, this would not be worth the paper it`s printed on unless officially filed with a reputable Thai lawyer and the lawyer becomes a sort of trustee over the testators affairs or in layman`s terms given power of attorney over the testators affairs. Of course anyone who is believed can be trusted can be given power of attorney over a volatile person`s affairs.

The contacting of hospitals and embassies pertains on situations, as everyone`s circumstances is different. An embassy would not become involved with those who already have families here. Many ex-pats living in Thailand have either lost close contact with relatives abroad long ago or have no next of kin abroad. Then there are those who have no close family and friends, or perhaps just acquaintances that are the most vulnerable in Thailand.

I don't see how leaving written instruction with one's embassy is placing one's " trust in complete strangers under the guise of unregistered outfits".

" An embassy would not become involved with those who already have families here." That's the normal situation. But I do hope that if they are given written instruction for a different arrangement they will inform the local authority accordingly. Now how these authorities will react if they are contacted by one's embassy and by a local next of kind, a local wife for example, with conflicting instructions ?

My strategy so far will be to leave written instruction with my embassy and to carry with me in card in both Thai and English asking people to contact my embassy (with telephone and person to contact) in case of emergency.