Aggressive Driver

[bonobo]

I was driving home from work yesterday and was about to turn right onto the second-to-last small road leading to my mooban. I had the right of way, but two cars were waiting to get off the small road and onto the bigger road.

I was already into the turn when the waiting SUV darted out in front of me. I slammed on the brakes and hit the horn, missing the guy by less than a meter. He pulled out, then stopped his car, blocking both roads. I cut my wheels tighter and eased behind him, the continued on, forgetting about it.

I turned on the last small road a few hundred meters further, then continued the last kilometer or so to my moo ban. Except that just before my mooban, the guy came roaring down the road, blew past me, then pulled to a stop in front of me. He opened his door, and for a moment, my dander was up and I wanted to get out and express my displeasure. A cooler head prevailed, though, and I barely squeaked past his open door and drove the last bit into my mooban.

This guy was totally in the wrong. He almost caused an accident, then drove in a dangerous manner in some sort of show of aggression. I can take care of myself in most situations, but what if he was armed or just the national muy thai champ? Even if it came to it and I "won," what good would it do?

The thing is, this is the third time I have had similar situations in Thailand. Over the years in the West, I've had my share of middle fingers extended my way, a few horns blared, even a few shouts out of windows. BUt I've never experienced aggression like this. Here, over the course of a handful of years, it has happened three times. Nothing came of any of them, but the fact is that people were using their cars almost as weapons and seemed to want to get into physical confrontations.

I am beginning to think that these were not just isolated cases but rather a reflection of Thai culture that I just don't understand yet.

[Costas2008]

Lets not blame the culture for everything.

Aggressive idiot drivers are all over the world.

Best thing, as you did, ignore the <deleted> and only take care of yourself and your wellbeing.

Confrontation can lead you to the hospital or somewhere worst.

[keestha]

I am always sticking to the rule: Everybody always has right of way, with the sole exception of Mr. Keestha.

[wprime]

These people feel weak and helpless in everyday life. When you put them at the wheel of a vehicle they feel powerful. They want to demonstrate this power by dominating others.

[bonobo]

Lets not blame the culture for everything.

Aggressive idiot drivers are all over the world.

Best thing, as you did, ignore the bastard and only take care of yourself and your wellbeing.

Confrontation can lead you to the hospital or somewhere worst.

I do think there is a cultural aspect to this. I have driven millions of miles in the West and have had near misses (and two accidents--one my fault). I have never experienced anything like this except in Thailand, where I have driven far fewer kilometers.

And there are differences in how people from different cultures/countries drive. Forget about adherence to traffic laws for a moment. In the West, when a person flashes his or her lights at you, that means "I see you, go ahead and come out/cross the street/come back into this lane/whatever." In Thailand, it means "I'm speeding up so don't you dare try to come out."

I am not opining that all is better in the West. This is only one observation about Thailand, and I think there is a cultural aspect to it.

[CharlieH]

Moved to Motoring

[krisb]

Cultural aspect is generally Asian drivers are crap, and it's not just a Thai thing.

Was at the Asian grocer in Australia the other day. Chinese guy pulls out of the carpark, but then cuts the corner leading out of the car park only to go over the concrete gutter, and continued to drive and wrecked the underneath of his car down the whole side plus the front bumper bar. What a complete idiot. He could of stopped and reverse out, but no not him, it was crazy.

[cooked]

Lack of willingness to exchange eye contact, indicate willingness to give way. That's a part of it when it comes to confrontations. Drugs tend to show their ugly presence occasionally also. I had a guy running on foot after me in reverse gear after I indicated that my car cam had got him. (It hadn't, actually). He tried to snatch open the door.

[Costas2008]

Lets not blame the culture for everything.

Aggressive idiot drivers are all over the world.

Best thing, as you did, ignore the bastard and only take care of yourself and your wellbeing.

Confrontation can lead you to the hospital or somewhere worst.

I do think there is a cultural aspect to this. I have driven millions of miles in the West and have had near misses (and two accidents--one my fault). I have never experienced anything like this except in Thailand, where I have driven far fewer kilometers.

And there are differences in how people from different cultures/countries drive. Forget about adherence to traffic laws for a moment. In the West, when a person flashes his or her lights at you, that means "I see you, go ahead and come out/cross the street/come back into this lane/whatever." In Thailand, it means "I'm speeding up so don't you dare try to come out."

I am not opining that all is better in the West. This is only one observation about Thailand, and I think there is a cultural aspect to it.

Flashing or not flashing the lights has nothing to do with culture.

Being good or bad drivers has nothing to do with culture either.

The lack of driving skills in Thailand and lack of judgement has got more to do with their mentality and lack of ability to learn or obey the law.

[Berkshire]

Lets not blame the culture for everything.

Aggressive idiot drivers are all over the world.

Best thing, as you did, ignore the bastard and only take care of yourself and your wellbeing.

Confrontation can lead you to the hospital or somewhere worst.

I do think there is a cultural aspect to this. I have driven millions of miles in the West and have had near misses (and two accidents--one my fault). I have never experienced anything like this except in Thailand, where I have driven far fewer kilometers.

And there are differences in how people from different cultures/countries drive. Forget about adherence to traffic laws for a moment. In the West, when a person flashes his or her lights at you, that means "I see you, go ahead and come out/cross the street/come back into this lane/whatever." In Thailand, it means "I'm speeding up so don't you dare try to come out."

I am not opining that all is better in the West. This is only one observation about Thailand, and I think there is a cultural aspect to it.

Bonobo, if there was a cultural aspect to this, then the majority of drivers in Thailand would be like this guy that you encountered. So the question is, are the majority of drivers like this guy? I think not. I drove in the US for many years and the road rage (at least in southern California) was probably worse.

I'm a pretty aggressive driver myself (albeit a safe and relatively polite one...most of the time). On occasions, I might make a mistake like cutting somebody off and I'll be the first to apologize. But if the other guy insists on chastising me or honking at me or giving me a dirty look....well, I may not take too kindly. Human nature. Just saying.

[seajae]

on a trip to Bangkok I was doing 100K/110K on a dual lane highway and a bus was in front of me going way slower so I indicated to move out to over take. About 1 klm behind me a car started to flash his lights as I started to pass the bus, once I was a safe distance past the bus I indicated and pulled back into the left lane, the car that had flashed his lights caught up & passed me then swerved in front of me and slammed on his brakes trying to cause me to crash I presume because I had stayed in the lane overtaking the bus after he flashed me. I have good reflexes so I simply changed gear swerved back out and accelerated past the idiot but this is typical of many thai drivers. They do not know the road rules but expect everyone else to let them do as they please then if they dont these idiots then threaten others or do stupid things to cause accidents, maybe it is the downfall caused by having little d*cks and having to show how "manly" they are, then again face can also be a big player, must be very face losing to have to admit they are sh*t drivers and have no idea what they are doing

[CharlieH]

Learning to drive in the West has a "highway code" a way of doing things, rules, an order, one which we learn and expect from others almost instinctively. Those same rules are ingrained into us and thats , all be it, subconsciously, how we expect other motorists to behave around us. Thats where the issues arise, because they have little or no real highway code here, atleast not one that appears to be followed and it ends up a "free for all". Thats when you see things coming at you the wrong way, no lane discipline, under-taking and a whole host of other issues and events that just wouldn'tbeen deemed acceptable by a "trained" driver as most here are not.

As for the confrontation and aggression, to me, it takes more of a man to keep cool and not react, than to react and probably regret it. The last road rage incident I re-call was in the press where the Thai-airways pilot was shot at several times on the highway over an incident. Then you have the ever increasing "yabba" influence here and the fact there is little gun control and it could lead to a deadly end.

I dont know the full circumstances of the Op's altercation, but I do know he acted in a very sensible and appropriate manner for this country and hope others learn "how to handle it" from his post.

Be safe people, your life is worth more than an idiot making a wrong turn/move.

[stevenl]

In the West, when a person flashes his or her lights at you, that means "I see you, go ahead and come out/cross the street/come back into this lane/whatever." In Thailand, it means "I'm speeding up so don't you dare try to come out."

In both the west and Thailand flashing the lights can have several meanings, depending on the circumstances.

[sipi]

They generally have no concept of "spacial awareness" whether in a car, motorbike, or on foot. It is common to see them standing in the middle of the footpath totally engaged in conversation oblivious to the fact that they are blocking everyone from passing.

[bonobo]

Lets not blame the culture for everything.

Aggressive idiot drivers are all over the world.

Best thing, as you did, ignore the bastard and only take care of yourself and your wellbeing.

Confrontation can lead you to the hospital or somewhere worst.

I do think there is a cultural aspect to this. I have driven millions of miles in the West and have had near misses (and two accidents--one my fault). I have never experienced anything like this except in Thailand, where I have driven far fewer kilometers.

And there are differences in how people from different cultures/countries drive. Forget about adherence to traffic laws for a moment. In the West, when a person flashes his or her lights at you, that means "I see you, go ahead and come out/cross the street/come back into this lane/whatever." In Thailand, it means "I'm speeding up so don't you dare try to come out."

I am not opining that all is better in the West. This is only one observation about Thailand, and I think there is a cultural aspect to it.

Bonobo, if there was a cultural aspect to this, then the majority of drivers in Thailand would be like this guy that you encountered. So the question is, are the majority of drivers like this guy? I think not. I drove in the US for many years and the road rage (at least in southern California) was probably worse.

I'm a pretty aggressive driver myself (albeit a safe and relatively polite one...most of the time). On occasions, I might make a mistake like cutting somebody off and I'll be the first to apologize. But if the other guy insists on chastising me or honking at me or giving me a dirty look....well, I may not take too kindly. Human nature. Just saying.

A cultural aspect does not mean every person will act a certain way. However, it can move the median one direction or the other.It can make it more likely that people might react a certain way.

I am the first to apologize when I make a mistake in driving, and I have found that diffuses most situations. I think it is ahrd to stay upset when the other guy is essentially saying "Forgive me. I'm an idiot."

[bonobo]

Flashing or not flashing the lights has nothing to do with culture.

I disagree. The purpose and meaning of the flashing is a direct reflection of the culture. In Thailand, it generally reflects a sense of entitlement and egocentric thinking. In the West, it generally reflects concern for others.

It is culture that formulates the two ways of thinking.

[arthurwait]

on a trip to Bangkok I was doing 100K/110K on a dual lane highway and a bus was in front of me going way slower so I indicated to move out to over take. About 1 klm behind me a car started to flash his lights as I started to pass the bus, once I was a safe distance past the bus I indicated and pulled back into the left lane, the car that had flashed his lights caught up & passed me then swerved in front of me and slammed on his brakes trying to cause me to crash I presume because I had stayed in the lane overtaking the bus after he flashed me. I have good reflexes so I simply changed gear swerved back out and accelerated past the idiot but this is typical of many thai drivers. They do not know the road rules but expect everyone else to let them do as they please then if they dont these idiots then threaten others or do stupid things to cause accidents, maybe it is the downfall caused by having little d*cks and having to show how "manly" they are, then again face can also be a big player, must be very face losing to have to admit they are sh*t drivers and have no idea what they are doing

You can see 1 km ?

Yep there is a arrogant culture of drivers here like that, but you are taught in the west (UK) that if you can fore-see a problem occurring or that if you will force another car to slow down , don't do it.

[Langsuan Man]

I blame this aggressiveness on these deeply tinted windows that the police allow

It is the anonymity that encourages this type of driving since they relish the fact no one can see who they are so they can get away with anything

[longstebe]

Now he knows where you live. You'll never beat a thai in a fight, never.

[cooked]

There are not more bad drivers in Thailand than elsewhere. There are more bad drivers here that are allowed to continue driving. SIL has been fined three times in three years for not having a driving licence or helmet. he still drives without a helmet. I have been to the hospital three times with family members that had head injuries. Do they as a result, wear a helmet? I don't think so.

It is law enforcement that is at fault.

Thai road safety spots on TV? Never seen any and only ever found one on Youtube.

Prevention, education, repression? this is Thailand, it doesn't happen.

[bonobo]

I blame this aggressiveness on these deeply tinted windows that the police allow

It is the anonymity that encourages this type of driving since they relish the fact no one can see who they are so they can get away with anything

I think there is some validity to your post.

[robblok]

I have seen some aggression too not that much as the bikes goes far faster as cars and you can loose idiots easy in traffic. I feel people are offended faster here and then get aggressive. I have never had anyone wanting to fight with me. I would avoid that at all cost even if you win you can loose. Hit him wrong and he goes down hitting his head you can get into trouble.. or I loose because he uses a weapon or is a pro martial artist. Either way its not a win and not worth it.

I think you did will not to go for the confrontation.

[daveAustin]

What the op describes is a common occurrence. Along with hideous driving and road manners comes the aspect of me first and face saving, which as we all should know is often taken to extreme in Thailand. It IS very different to elsewhere (not everywhere) and anyone who says it's the same the world over is being all PC-silly and apologist.

[JohnnyJazz]

How long have you been living in Thailand ? For me it took me less than one year to to stop paying attention to the honking and the light flashing. I mean I pay attention because I don't want to be involved in an accident, the last time we had to wait for close to two hours for the insurance guy to arrive, but I don't let it affect me. Especially since half of the time I'm the one flashing the lights or honking the horn. So you can say I'm well integrated in Thailand ;-)

And to be honest I've seen much worse. Have you ever drive in Roma, Madrid, Paris or, even better, Sao Paulo ?

Edited March 18, 2015 by JohnnyJazz

[giddyup]

How long have you been living in Thailand ? For me it took me less than one year to to stop paying attention to the honking and the light flashing. I mean I pay attention because I don't want to be involved in an accident, the last time we had to wait for close to two hours for the insurance guy to arrive, but I don't let it affect me. Especially since half of the time I'm the one flashing the lights or honking the horn. So you can say I'm well integrated in Thailand ;-)

And to be honest I've seen much worse. Have you ever drive in Roma, Madrid, Paris or, even better, Sao Paulo ?

I actually thought there was very little in the way of light flashing or horn honking in Thailand. Sounding your horn, even if it's only a polite warning for somebody that hasn't seen you, can be met with angry stares or even the middle finger. I have got the headlights flashed on occasion, which usually means "I'm coming through at a great rate of knots, get the f*** out of my way".

[bkkjames]

I particularly enjoy it here in jam city when driving down some road and a merc, bmw type starts to stick their nose out and then has to decide if I will take off their front end with my big black truck,. Sorry owning one of those may get you wais from security guards but it means nothing to me.

[Berkshire]

Bonobo, if there was a cultural aspect to this, then the majority of drivers in Thailand would be like this guy that you encountered. So the question is, are the majority of drivers like this guy? I think not. I drove in the US for many years and the road rage (at least in southern California) was probably worse.

I'm a pretty aggressive driver myself (albeit a safe and relatively polite one...most of the time). On occasions, I might make a mistake like cutting somebody off and I'll be the first to apologize. But if the other guy insists on chastising me or honking at me or giving me a dirty look....well, I may not take too kindly. Human nature. Just saying.

A cultural aspect does not mean every person will act a certain way. However, it can move the median one direction or the other.It can make it more likely that people might react a certain way.

I am the first to apologize when I make a mistake in driving, and I have found that diffuses most situations. I think it is ahrd to stay upset when the other guy is essentially saying "Forgive me. I'm an idiot."

Agree. I would bump into Thai guys occasionally in the mall and almost always, they apologize first, which certainly diffuses the situation.

Don't get me wrong. The guy in your OP is a prick and there's no denying that. But allow me to explain further. If another driver makes a driving error, thereby nearly causing an accident, yes, he's in the wrong and he knows it. But you can be relatively certain that it wasn't intentional. Perhaps he didn't see me, or was inattentive, or misjudged, regardless, it was unintentional.

But if I respond by honking, or giving him the evil eye, or even giving him the finger, then it's clearly intentional. What would you do if someone intentionally insulted you? I'd say that if you intentionally insulted 20 Thai guys, 19 would probably not respond in an irrational or violent way. But the one guy may just pull out a gun and splatter your brains all over your leather seats.

Anyways, you handled the situation well. But another hot-headed farang may not be so wise.

[slipperylobster]

I blame this aggressiveness on these deeply tinted windows that the police allow

It is the anonymity that encourages this type of driving since they relish the fact no one can see who they are so they can get away with anything

I think there is some validity to your post.

Anonymity...such as which we find even here on TV.

If posts were cars, we would all be guilty of bad driving.

[bonobo]

How long have you been living in Thailand ? For me it took me less than one year to to stop paying attention to the honking and the light flashing. I mean I pay attention because I don't want to be involved in an accident, the last time we had to wait for close to two hours for the insurance guy to arrive, but I don't let it affect me. Especially since half of the time I'm the one flashing the lights or honking the horn. So you can say I'm well integrated in Thailand ;-)

And to be honest I've seen much worse. Have you ever drive in Roma, Madrid, Paris or, even better, Sao Paulo ?

I was the one who honked to avoid the accident. He never honked but rather chased after me and tried for a confrontation.

And I have driven in Rome, Madrid, and Paris, and while not Sao Paulo, I've driven in Rio.

[MichaelJohn]

You only have to look at the (lack of) driving test in Thailand to understand why people drive the way they do.

They have no judgement of the size of car, maneuverability, perception of speed, danger etc etc, all things we learn as part of driving lessons to learn the skills necessary to pass the driving test.

No training results in dangerous driving.