Winning the battle against Islamist fanaticism

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL
Winning the battle against Islamist fanaticism
The Nation

The world needs to support muslim leaders facing attacks by islamic state extremists in the middle east

The two gunmen were referred to as "knights of the Islamic State" for murdering 20 foreign tourists at a museum in Tunisia.

Islamic State (IS) took credit for the attacks and said this was a sign of more things to come. It was the "first drop of the rain", IS said.

Tunisia was not chosen out of the blue. Because of its secular atmosphere and a sense of strong cultural, academic and intellectual history that pre-date Islam, Tunisia is a threat to Islamic State, or the kind of Islamic society ISIS wants to create.

In many ways, Tunisia was a model for the future. It was there where the "Arab springs" had emerged four years ago and it was there where values such as democracy, civil society, peaceful co-existence and human rights have a chance of making it.

The incident was another example of how low IS can sink with its tactics. It was also another wake-up call for the Muslim world to see IS for what it is and to take a stand because, essentially, they are the ones under the IS guns.

In the previous decades, especially when al-Qaeda was making headlines, there was a tendency to dismiss these terrorist acts as part of bigger battle between the West and the East.

But that narrative has taken a back seat to the reality that came about with the emergence of IS. Attacking the West was not an end in itself; the West was a sideshow; the West was attacked because they were backing a different horse.

Experts said it was a 'convenient' way to unite the Muslim world under one single narrative. Radical Islamists wanted to portray the West as the big bad wolf and the Muslim world as the defenceless victims. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan reinforced that perception.

Using the West as a stepping-stone to the end-game came about after the Islamists failed to unite the Muslim world by turning their guns on their authoritarian leaders back in the 1970s-80s. Many of those governments were secular politically and most were extremely repressive and dictatorial.

The anti-West campaign worked to some extent as Muslims, as well as non-Muslims, accept the misleading "clash of civilisation" theory. In Thailand, even outspoken non-Muslim intellectuals were telling Muslims that Islam was the only force to counter Western hegemony.

But deep down inside, taking into consideration the historical context and the battle between Islamists and authoritarian Muslim countries since the early 1980s, the real prize for the militant Islamists was control over the respective Muslim state.

The plan is to remove authoritarian governments and replace them with the militant Islamist fighters.

It was largely a Sunni movement but the first country that succeeded in making this transition was the Shiites in Iran.

The repressive nature of Iran under the mullahs was well documented. But it was not long before the mullahs in Iran realised that they could not keep the aspirations and free spirit of the Iranian people caged up. And so over recent years, things began to unravel for the better.

Unlike the clerics in Iran, IS fighters, as seen with their senseless killings, are not interested in norms or decency. So grotesque were their tactics that even groups like al-Qaeda rejected being allies with them.

If al-Qaeda was credited for taking this war against the West, Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) is trying to finish off the "last stage of the game" by turning their guns to the nations of the Middle East.

The two are part of the same evolution of militant Islam whose aim, as stated earlier, is to dissolve these modern Arab nation states and replace them with a classical community romanticised by these fanatics.

What's alarming for governments around the world is that the fanatic romantic notion of IS has lured many Muslims men and some women from around the globe to their hideous ways and means.

The East vs West narrative no

longer holds water. At stake now is the fate and sustainability of the socio-political future of the Arab world. Muslims will have to take the lead on this fight and the world needs to stand by them.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Winning-the-battle-against-Islamist-fanaticism-30256513.html

-- The Nation 2015-03-22

[HeijoshinCool]

Fly overhead and spray them with pig's blood. Then start killing them with conventional weapons. This will prevent their dead from going to heaven and gettin' their 72 virgins.

They'll run like the wind.

[NeverSure]

Spray them with their own blood which can't be scientifically differentiated from pigs' blood.

[rhythmworx]

Didn't read it all. it's nice of Thailand to be concerned of the west though when they are harbouring fanatic terrorists in their southern most provinces.

...and also their capital and elsewhere.

Edited March 22, 2015 by rhythmworx

[sirineou]

Spray them with their own blood which can't be scientifically differentiated from pigs' blood.

Wow !!!! some one is awfully cranky today. are the Mods sleeping today?

By the way I am sure you are wrong , I am sure Human blood could be easily and scientyficaly differentiated from the blood of other species

[Scott]

Mod's aren't sleeping. Please stay on topic and try not to outdo each other on who can be the most outrageous.

[Seastallion]

Personally I think the West, and the Muslim world, have to first of all wage a comprehensive psychological war at home. The OP alludes to this without recognising it when it talks about "narratives" that no longer work.

It's all about perceptions and attitudes. Get the right perceptions and attitudes instilled in the minds of the masses, the potential recruits, the supporters, and just as importantly in the minds of those that are against ISIS.

Turning the entire Middle East into a giant glass parking lot is not the answer and is in fact a suggestion that is counter-productive, as are silly ideas with pigs blood. The psychological war needs to get the moderate Muslims with us, not swaying against us.

[sdanielmcev]

Change in the Muslim world will only come when the average Muslim gets sick and tired of the radicals. Some of which seems to be happening now.

[simple1]

From the OP...

"In Thailand, even outspoken non-Muslim intellectuals were telling Muslims that Islam was the only force to counter Western hegemony"

Can anyone point to the non Muslim Thais who promulgate this POV?

Edited March 22, 2015 by simple1

[ezzra]

Fly overhead and spray them with pig's blood. Then start killing them with conventional weapons. This will prevent their dead from going to heaven and gettin' their 72 virgins.

They'll run like the wind.

'from going to heaven and gettin' their 72 virgins'

That 72 virgins is a typo, it was suppose to read 1 virgin, 72 years old.....

[ezzra]

Muslims all over the world are being led to believe that there is this epic battle going on between

Muslims and the non believers, they're brainwashed and indoctrinated into ideas by people, who

are benefiting from such chaos, either for power, money and hegemony over land and countries,

those people should be hunted down and exterminated, and the Muslims world should be made

to understand that there is such thing as religious wars going on, only in their wrapped minds...

[lemonjelly]

From the OP...

"In Thailand, even outspoken non-Muslim intellectuals were telling Muslims that Islam was the only force to counter Western hegemony"

Can anyone point to the non Muslim Thais who promulgate this POV?

I've yet to see a source reference to any of the bizzare statements that these guys publish.

[Mosha]

It's not coincidence that the trouble in the M.E. has happened as the west backed opposition to strong, but unpalatable leaders is it?

[ChrisY1]

IMO, the war against radical islamists will be unwinnable for the west.

The attraction IS has to enrol young men and women is frightening..............

Many islamics do speak against the jihad.....only to beg forgiveness for what they utter, at prayer time in the mosque.

The sheer numbers of muslims now....and which continues to grow......indicates they will be in control in just the next few decades.

[smedly]

Muslims all over the world are being led to believe that there is this epic battle going on between

Muslims and the non believers, they're brainwashed and indoctrinated into ideas by people, who

are benefiting from such chaos, either for power, money and hegemony over land and countries,

those people should be hunted down and exterminated, and the Muslims world should be made

to understand that there is such thing as religious wars going on, only in their wrapped minds...

agree .....great post,

somewhere in the plan of a few when closely scrutinised you will find the true goal of money and power at the expense of the masses

quote from..........

smedly

[smedly]

IMO, the war against radical islamists will be unwinnable for the west.

The attraction IS has to enrol young men and women is frightening..............

Many islamics do speak against the jihad.....only to beg forgiveness for what they utter, at prayer time in the mosque.

The sheer numbers of muslims now....and which continues to grow......indicates they will be in control in just the next few decades.

if what you say is correct then we are headed for ethnic cleansing on a global scale - I see no other alternative if true

[Credo]

I don't know if it will be ethnic cleansing, but you may be right about a major cleansing.

[Steely Dan]

If you consider the relative merits of a Middle East run by secular leaning tyrants or Islamist fanatics the former is infinitely preferable to the latter. The Quixotic vision of an Arab spring bringing pluralism and democracy to the region has now been shown to be a dessert mirage. The best that can be hoped for is the reestablishment of authoritarian rule, but this is appearing to be odds against in Iraq and Libya.

There needs to be a wholesale reform and modernization of Islam before Muslim populations can live comfortably beside non-Muslim ones, but I suspect before such a process can resolve itself there will be a large sectarian war between Sunni and Shia

Incidentally 'Islamist fanaticism' is just a palatable term for Islamic Puritanism, though for obvious reasons Western leaders can't admit this any more than can Monarchs or Military hard men ruling middle eastern states.

[Seastallion]

If you consider the relative merits of a Middle East run by secular leaning tyrants or Islamist fanatics the former is infinitely preferable to the latter. The Quixotic vision of an Arab spring bringing pluralism and democracy to the region has now been shown to be a dessert mirage. The best that can be hoped for is the reestablishment of authoritarian rule, but this is appearing to be odds against in Iraq and Libya.

There needs to be a wholesale reform and modernization of Islam before Muslim populations can live comfortably beside non-Muslim ones, but I suspect before such a process can resolve itself there will be a large sectarian war between Sunni and Shia

Incidentally 'Islamist fanaticism' is just a palatable term for Islamic Puritanism, though for obvious reasons Western leaders can't admit this any more than can Monarchs or Military hard men ruling middle eastern states.

I agree with a lot of your post.

With regard to secular tyrants vs religious fanatics, indeed you are correct. The US trying to impose it's style of democracy was always going to end in tears.

Puritanism...that may be so, but must be said within context.

[BuaBS]

Isn't ISIS the wet dream of the west : muslims killing muslims so we don't have to ?

Imagine 1 unified muslim/islamic front against the west , that would be scary !

[transam]

Time for action..........The innocent are being wasted worldwide by shit heads that have been given a gun, numnuts who have nothing, will never have anything but this thing over life and death of the unarmed women and children.

Yes, another hiccup with humanity........We must prevail...........

[ABCer]

• Whether we like it or not - they are also 'humanity'.
• No need to 'kill them all' - this would be a Nazi solution.
• The last experiences over Millennia shows that total Isolationism between Islam countries and the rest of the world works!
• Do not fight 'radicals'. Do not help 'moderates'. Leave them alone.
• Get rid of 45,000,000 Muslims living among the westerners. It is not easy but is absolutely necessary!
• Do not ask me - how? I didn't let them in. The West is lost if this is not done. No use fighting Islam with a 45,000,000 Fifth column among us.

The moment they are gone back to their countries of origin there will be peace. Meaning that the West has won!

The big questions are - Do our Politicians want peace? Who let the Muslims in? Who and to what aim has invented 'Political Correctness'? Can it be applied to Muslims?

We can win the battle against Islamic extremists. We can never win war! A war against a Religious idea cannot be won by superior weapons.

[7by7]

IMO, the war against radical islamists will be unwinnable for the west.

Possibly; without the help of mainstream Muslim countries, which the west currently has, definitely!

The attraction IS has to enrol young men and women is frightening..............

Indeed, and very worrying for their parents and others in Muslim communities.

Of course, when people demonise and attack all Muslims for the actions of IS, this only acts to turn even more against the West and towards IS.

Are those who demonise and attack all Muslims too stupid to see this: or are they deliberately acting as recruiters of IS?

Many islamics do speak against the jihad.....only to beg forgiveness for what they utter, at prayer time in the mosque.

You are correct; many Muslims from many countries and all walks of life do speak out against IS; a fact often ignored by those who wish to demonise Islam itself rather than act against the terrorists.

They speak out; and they are sincere in what they say.

You seem to doubt their sincerity, so tell us; how do you know what any individual says in their private prayers; whatever the religion of that person?

The sheer numbers of muslims now....and which continues to grow......indicates they will be in control in just the next few decades.

The world's largest religion is, by a long way, Christianity; Islam is second. (Source)

As to which is the fastest growing religion; it depends on one's source.

Some say Pentecostal Christianity, others say Islam; others say Atheism!

Edited March 22, 2015 by 7by7

[sirineou]

The world's largest religion is, by a long way, Christianity; Islam is second. (Source)

As to which is the fastest growing religion; it depends on one's source.

Some say Pentecostal Christianity, others say Islam; others say Atheism!

Atheism is not a religion,

To call Atheism a religion is as to call Abstinence a sexual position

Atheists are that segment of the population that Abstains from religion

All the rest insist in F#*king each other

The Fastest Growing religion is Frisbeeterianism

(the belief that communion with god can only be achieved through a Frisbee)

There was only one, now there are two, so it has grown by 100%

[JDGRUEN]

The world's largest religion is, by a long way, Christianity; Islam is second. (Source)

As to which is the fastest growing religion; it depends on one's source.

Some say Pentecostal Christianity, others say Islam; others say Atheism!

Atheism is not a religion,

To call Atheism a religion is as to call Abstinence a sexual position

Atheists are that segment of the population that Abstains from religion

All the rest insist in F#*king each other

The Fastest Growing religion is Frisbeeterianism

(the belief that communion with god can only be achieved through a Frisbee)

There was only one, now there are two, so it has grown by 100%

Yes - but Atheists quite often become fanatical in pushing their beliefs that there is no God - insisting that others believe as they do ... often try to prevent other people from displaying symbols of their particular Religious beliefs done while in public -- seeming to believe that anything done in public must be done according to Atheistic beliefs and rules - Religious beliefs must conform to Atheistic beliefs - the public areas belong to Atheists ... Sounds like a religion to me ... damned near as intolerant as followers of Islam ...

[Linky]

The world's largest religion is, by a long way, Christianity; Islam is second. (Source)

As to which is the fastest growing religion; it depends on one's source.

Some say Pentecostal Christianity, others say Islam; others say Atheism!

Atheism is not a religion,

To call Atheism a religion is as to call Abstinence a sexual position

Atheists are that segment of the population that Abstains from religion

All the rest insist in F#*king each other

The Fastest Growing religion is Frisbeeterianism

(the belief that communion with god can only be achieved through a Frisbee)

There was only one, now there are two, so it has grown by 100%

Yes - but Atheists quite often become fanatical in pushing their beliefs that there is no God - insisting that others believe as they do ... often try to prevent other people from displaying symbols of their particular Religious beliefs done while in public -- seeming to believe that anything done in public must be done according to Atheistic beliefs and rules - Religious beliefs must conform to Atheistic beliefs - the public areas belong to Atheists ... Sounds like a religion to me ... damned near as intolerant as followers of Islam ...

Religions are based on belief. Atheism is also based on a belief. Atheism is a form of religion and yes, true believers are bigoted and intolerant.

I prefer agnostics, they don't seem to give a toss either way.

[arjunadawn]

The piece has some known but useful information but this piece utterly fails in both its introduction and closing sentence- totally fails!

Winning the battle against Islamist fanaticism
The Nation

"The world needs to support muslim leaders facing attacks by islamic state extremists in the middle east."

Great, the problem is the author did nothing to identify and elaborate on both the leaders and the choices. The author could not have overlooked the fact that his piece never answered his own premise. It just did not even approximately address the byline. Perhaps an expose on the brave Al Sisi would have been useful.

"The East vs West narrative no longer holds water. At stake now is the fate and sustainability of the socio-political future of the Arab world. Muslims will have to take the lead on this fight and the world needs to stand by them."

Lets be certain we are on the same page; what is the East vs West narrative the author refers to? He notes that this narrative, presumably code for religious war (which it is) is not valid any longer. It is not valid presumably because he made the argument rebutting it previously (which he did not), or he will close with a refutation of this narrative (which he does not). The author closes by noting the "socio-political future of the arab world" is endanger of being unsustainable (This statement actually says nothing at all. Not even an elementary observation). Of course the "narrative" for the "East vs West" (read religious war) can exist and social upheaval and economic hardship be experienced. What is the point?

Is this the jobs for jihads argument? There is no reasoning here. There is premise, body, and faulty conclusion. No where does his delivery support the intro nor confirm the conclusion. This is nonsense! Perhaps the reason this is a vacuous piece is because it really is another jobs for jihad gaslighting story.

[sirineou]

The world's largest religion is, by a long way, Christianity; Islam is second. (Source)

As to which is the fastest growing religion; it depends on one's source.

Some say Pentecostal Christianity, others say Islam; others say Atheism!

Atheism is not a religion,

To call Atheism a religion is as to call Abstinence a sexual position

Atheists are that segment of the population that Abstains from religion

All the rest insist in F#*king each other

The Fastest Growing religion is Frisbeeterianism

(the belief that communion with god can only be achieved through a Frisbee)

There was only one, now there are two, so it has grown by 100%

Yes - but Atheists quite often become fanatical in pushing their beliefs that there is no God - insisting that others believe as they do ... often try to prevent other people from displaying symbols of their particular Religious beliefs done while in public -- seeming to believe that anything done in public must be done according to Atheistic beliefs and rules - Religious beliefs must conform to Atheistic beliefs - the public areas belong to Atheists ... Sounds like a religion to me ... damned near as intolerant as followers of Islam ...

Of course non of what you say is true

Fanatic: defending once belief to the death

When was the last time you show an Atheist strap a bomb vest on and blow him/her self up while screaming

THERE IS NO GOD, SO HE CANT BE GREAT

Atheists do not try to prevent anyone from displaying their religious symbols in public, you are welcome to wear any of your magical talisman on your body or display them in your property, what we object is that you use public property.

Public property belongs to the whole public of all religions and of non religion,

[sirineou]

The world's largest religion is, by a long way, Christianity; Islam is second. (Source)

As to which is the fastest growing religion; it depends on one's source.

Some say Pentecostal Christianity, others say Islam; others say Atheism!

Atheism is not a religion,

To call Atheism a religion is as to call Abstinence a sexual position

Atheists are that segment of the population that Abstains from religion

All the rest insist in F#*king each other

The Fastest Growing religion is Frisbeeterianism

(the belief that communion with god can only be achieved through a Frisbee)

There was only one, now there are two, so it has grown by 100%

Yes - but Atheists quite often become fanatical in pushing their beliefs that there is no God - insisting that others believe as they do ... often try to prevent other people from displaying symbols of their particular Religious beliefs done while in public -- seeming to believe that anything done in public must be done according to Atheistic beliefs and rules - Religious beliefs must conform to Atheistic beliefs - the public areas belong to Atheists ... Sounds like a religion to me ... damned near as intolerant as followers of Islam ...

Religions are based on belief. Atheism is also based on a belief. Atheism is a form of religion and yes, true believers are bigoted and intolerant.

I prefer agnostics, they don't seem to give a toss either way.

Not true also

Atheism is the absence of belief

We make no claims, It is up to those who make claims to explain, we have nothing to explain

This is the last thing I will say about Atheism in this Thread

PS: if everyone was an Atheist there would be no need for this Thread , and many people would be alive today

[NeverSure]

Yes - but Atheists quite often become fanatical in pushing their beliefs that there is no God - insisting that others believe as they do ... often try to prevent other people from displaying symbols of their particular Religious beliefs done while in public -- seeming to believe that anything done in public must be done according to Atheistic beliefs and rules - Religious beliefs must conform to Atheistic beliefs - the public areas belong to Atheists ... Sounds like a religion to me ... damned near as intolerant as followers of Islam ...

you are welcome to wear any of your magical talisman on your body or display them in your property, what we object is that you use public property.

Public property belongs to the whole public of all religions and of non religion,

Ah the common intolerant error which Muslims also make.

In my country - the US - the founders strongly enshrined in the Constitution my right to freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of religion.

Now tell me. If the only place I'm free to speak/express/show my beliefs is on my own property locked in my bathroom...

How am I free?