Income Tax Vs. Voting Rights

[raybkk]

Just asking around, as today, while I was looking at the monthly pay slip that comes each and every month, and yes, each month its the same amount of TAX being deducted...Never really bothered thinking further than just seeing it as a duty. However after reading the News lately with regards to all the things the Thai Government does with Tax money such as the latest incident with renewed orders for Airport Scanning machines I am really worried...after all...even I am paying for the things the government can't get right.

Now than, I have been here a long time and I really feel that I should get a legal right to vote. Not that it means much to the overall picture but I least have peace with myself. After all I am being billed 37% tax monthly but no legal rights to interfere with any decisions being made.

Regardless the amount you pay in Taxes, do you feel the same... Should each and every Tax payer have the right to vote?

[jdinasia]

Get citizenship then you can vote! simple!

[raybkk]

Get citizenship then you can vote! simple!

Does citizinship in Thailand for "Foreigners " mean that you can vote? Or does it just mean that you dont need Visa's any longer?

However thats a different subject.

[jdinasia]

means BOTH

[raybkk]

means BOTH

Ok, I take your word for it. However dont you need to be in Thailand for at least 10 years non stop. Sorry to get off topic, it really interests me.

[jdinasia]

http://www.phuketgazette.com/issuesanswers...ails.asp?id=759

To qualify to apply for Thai citizenship, the applicant must meet the following criteria:

He or she must be 18 years old or older and also have reached legal majority in his or her country of origin.

He or she must be of good behavior and background. The following will be checked: criminal record; political background; involvement with illegal drugs and, in the case of Vietnamese applicants, personal behavior.

If working in Thailand, he or she must have an income of at least 80,000 baht a month or have paid taxes in the year the citizenship application is made of 100,000 baht or more.

If living in Thailand for “reasons of humanity” such as being marriage with a Thai people or having a Thai-born child or having graduated from a university in Thailand, he or she must have an income of at least 30,000 baht a month and be able to prove that he or she has paid taxes in Thailand for at least three years.

He or she must have lived in Thailand contunously for at least five years before applying.

The applicant must know the Thai language, including speaking, listening and understand, be able to sing the National Anthem and Sanserm Phra Baramee and pass an interview in Thai with government officers.

Points are awarded to applicants on the following basis: Age and education, 25 points; Occupation, 35 points; Length of residence in Thailand, 10 points; Relationship with Thai people and Thailand, 10 points; Thai language knowledge, 10 points; Personality, 10 points.

Applicants must score a total of at least 50 points in order to qualify for consideration. They must also have two guarantors of their behavior and assets. These guarantors must not be relatives.

Documents applicants must supply are;

Five copies of passport

Five copies of documents verifiying address in Thailand

Five copies of work permit

Five copies of house registration

Five copies of marriage registration (translated into Thai)

Two copies each of ID cards and house registrations of two people who guarantee the applicant’s behavior and assets.

Copy of birth certification, ID card or passport of a wife or husband and children, if any. If the applicant has changed names or surnames, documents relating to these must also be provided.

Documents showing income tax paid over the past three years.

In the case of applicant being a director or partner in a limitewd liability company or partnership, documents verifying that company taxes have been paid for three years.

Two copies each of company or partnership registration, licenses, lists of shareholders, value-added taxes and other related documents of the organization the applicant works at.

Two documents verifying occupation from the organization where he or she works. Salary and position of the applicant must be stated, and the documents must be signed by an authorized person in that organization.

Two documents verifying the applicant’s educational background and those of his or her children, if any.

A document verifying bank accounts, and showing they contain a minimum of 80,000 baht.

A document verifying donations to charity. These should total not less than 5,000 baht and the money must have been donated a long time ago – not just a time to support the citizenship application.

A dozen photographs, 2.5x2.5 inches in size, showing the applicant dressed politely.

A document verifying that the applicant has reaches majority according to the laws in his or her country of origin.

Applicants must present all original documents in person, along with an application fee of 5,000 baht fee. Bangkok-resident applicants should go to the Nationalization Office, Special Branch, Royal Thai Police, the 5th building, Phraram 1 Rd, Kwang Bangmai, Pathumwan Bangkok.

Residents outside Bangkok should apply to the Provincial Police.

Documents will be sent to the relevant authorities for checking. The officers will present those documents to higher ranking officers.

The Interior Minister is the final authority for the decision. There is no exact timetable for consideration – it depends on the length of the checking process.

Last year 48 people applied for Thai nationality. Ten received approval from the Minister of Interior. ”

Thursday, October 28, 2004

[jdinasia]

But directly to your topic ....... can you name ONE country where non-citizens get the vote?

[raybkk]

But directly to your topic ....... can you name ONE country where non-citizens get the vote?

Nope I couldn't. Thats why I wondering about it. Dont wanna change the world..just imput.

However in Europe a ID card gives you rights. In Thailand the ID doesn't give you much..I mean, you can be a Thai citizen, you will not get the Thai passport.

But I might be wrong about the Thai side of the story.

[britmaveric]

But directly to your topic ....... can you name ONE country where non-citizens get the vote?

Nope I couldn't. Thats why I wondering about it. Dont wanna change the world..just imput.

However in Europe a ID card gives you rights. In Thailand the ID doesn't give you much..I mean, you can be a Thai citizen, you will not get the Thai passport.

But I might be wrong about the Thai side of the story.

You become citizen you have thai passport.

[jdinasia]

Yes as a Thai citizen you would be eligible to get a Thai passport

and do anything else a Thai can do ... property ... vote ... passport ... work ... etc etc

Edited August 30, 2006 by jdinasia

[raybkk]

But directly to your topic ....... can you name ONE country where non-citizens get the vote?

http://www.thaivisa.com/301.0.html

Wow! The processing takes 2 to 3 years. (quote by TV)

[raybkk]

Thanks sofar for your reply. I think I am gonna give it a try. Strange, started with a question and ending up with a new challenge in life.

[farangsay]

But directly to your topic ....... can you name ONE country where non-citizens get the vote?

Irish citizens resident in the UK have had the right to vote in UK

elections for many years.

I understand Ireland was going to reciprocate but I'm too long out of Ireland

to know if they did.

[jdinasia]

all you need to do to start is ...... get your 5 years in country continuously

and learn Thai

[Gumballl]

Can foreigners (non-citizens) form Political Action Committees (PACs) or become lobbyists? Do they need a work permit to rally others (Thai citizens of course) to support whatever cause it is that they support.

Before a vote can count for anything, a good majority of the voters must agree on a cause or course of action. Without wide support, one dissenting vote is meaningless.

By the way... I would never want to become a Thai citizen. Too much hassle, and very little to gain.

[samran]

All commonwealth nationals living in the UK are allowed to vote and run for political office. European nationals have some rights I think to vote in certain elections, I can't remember which ones.

British subjects (ie commonwealth nationals) and entrolled in australia prior to 1984 are allowed to vote.

But that isn't really a precedent for Thailand. More a colonial overhang.

Citizenship in most countries usually confers the right to political representation and activity, and is soley the right for citizens of that country.

I'm lucky. I've managed to have voted in Thai, Australian and UK elections recently. Fun fun fun.

[bendix]

Philosophically, simply paying taxes where you live shouldn't give anyone the right to vote - if it did, where would you draw the line? Would a tourist demand the right to vote based on paying sales tax in the US or VAT in Britain, for example? I'm going to Indonesia in two weeks - I'll be paying entry and departure tax, plus various taxes on everyday purchases such as hotel rooms? Does that give me the right to vote.

I consider myself a guest in Thailand. Part of my responsibility as a guest is to pay my way, based on whatever wealth I am accumulating here. Yes, I can smile ironically at political decisions, but do I think I should be able to contribute to the political process? No way.

[steveromagnino]

Philosophically, simply paying taxes where you live shouldn't give anyone the right to vote - if it did, where would you draw the line? Would a tourist demand the right to vote based on paying sales tax in the US or VAT in Britain, for example? I'm going to Indonesia in two weeks - I'll be paying entry and departure tax, plus various taxes on everyday purchases such as hotel rooms? Does that give me the right to vote.

I consider myself a guest in Thailand. Part of my responsibility as a guest is to pay my way, based on whatever wealth I am accumulating here. Yes, I can smile ironically at political decisions, but do I think I should be able to contribute to the political process? No way.

THe flip side is that the original poster also implies that paying taxes earns the right to vote.

So...does not paying tax remove the right to vote?

- students

- housewives

- unemployed

- poor farmers

These make up probably 70% of Thailand voters; if we take the vote away from them, then effectively the govt would be decided by BKK instead of upcountry. A minority could tell the majority what to do, ad the majority would never get to comment!

It sounds like what Stewie in family guy would do.

[bendix]

No, because they are khon Thai. Of course they should vote, even if they don't pay taxes.

We should not vote, because we are foreigners, even if we pay taxes. if we don't like it, we can leave.

[~G~]

The OP is clearly inspired by Thai politics, in which money buys votes. Yes, it works, but no, it's not in the books.

[thaihome]

Got to admit it would be great to be able to vote just because you paid taxes in a country. That would mean I get to vote in Singapore, Malaysia, China, and Thailand. I have paid more tax in a year in each one of those countries then the average yearly income of the citizens of each.

TH

[Scott]

So then not paying taxes means you don't vote? That means some poor people and a lot of elderly get disenfranchised. Hhmm....I think being a citizen should be good enough for this one.

Money is tied to too many things already.

[simon43]

As a quick comment re the requirements for applying for Thai citizenship, there was an article last cweek in The Phuket Gazette about 2 'foreigners' who were applying. One was a successful Australian businessman with a family (farang) in Phuket. The other was an Indian businessman (Patong tailors???

Anyway, they had both lived in Thailand for about 17-19 years!!

Seems in practice, you have to live here a long time before applying for Thai citizenship...

(It must be said that although they had been living here for 19 years, Thai immigration only had proof of living here for about 6 years...)

Simon

[fxm88]

Yeah, it'd also be nice if I also got a vote in how the shops I spend money in were run, or the services I employed... HAHAHAH... but wait: I do! I don't have to spend my money there. I can leave and go elsewhere. It's called voting with one's feet. (No offense intended against anyone who's touchy about feet.)

[mrbojangles]

We should not vote, because we are foreigners, even if we pay taxes. if we don't like it, we can leave.

Come on Bendix, i hate that sort of reply. The op has asked a serious question and we get the same old answer. He didn't say anything about hating the country and wanting to leave etc. As it is, his question has now led him onto the path of maybe looking at getting citizenship.

Good luck to him, so let's keep off the "don't like it, leave" drivel.

Personally, when i'm ready to retire there, i'll be going down that route.....eventually

[Mossfinn]

I'm lucky. I've managed to have voted in Thai, Australian and UK elections recently. Fun fun fun.

And are you out on licence or just having a break from your padded cell!

Moss

[Mossfinn]

But directly to your topic ....... can you name ONE country where non-citizens get the vote?

Irish citizens resident in the UK have had the right to vote in UK

elections for many years.

I understand Ireland was going to reciprocate but I'm too long out of Ireland

to know if they did.

This info is correct farangsay as long as they are 18 or over and resident in the UK as you have said, additionally to answer your question, British Citizens who are resident in the Republic can also vote in the national elections.

Moss

[samran]

I'm lucky. I've managed to have voted in Thai, Australian and UK elections recently. Fun fun fun.

And are you out on licence or just having a break from your padded cell!

Moss

they give laptops to us inside the cells these days.

Occassionally I end up smashing it on my head. But they always give me a new one.

[astral]

But directly to your topic ....... can you name ONE country where non-citizens get the vote?

No BUT I can name a number where the path to citizenship and the right to vote

is a good deal easier and more readily obtainable than Thailand..........

[Donz]

But directly to your topic ....... can you name ONE country where non-citizens get the vote?

No BUT I can name a number where the path to citizenship and the right to vote

is a good deal easier and more readily obtainable than Thailand..........

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