When the government mess thing up the army can step in to clear said mess up.

When the army is the government the mess is impossible to clear up.

The water might not run down hill. But the country is heading that way.

I'm guessing that the PM is not planning a trip to the USA or Europe any time soon. He can visit his intellectual brother in Zimbabwe, better hurry up as he is on borrowed time.

Yet it's Thaksin who does business with Zimbabwe, not the current-PM, and who regards someone like Putin as a close friend ?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/spiegel-interview-with-thaksin-shinawatra-thailand-must-be-united-again-a-768492.html

"Thaksin: I'm often in Africa where I've invested in gold mines in Uganda, in platinum and coal in South Africa and Zimbabwe and Tanzania."

and "I also travel to Russia very often to meet my old friend, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin."

And didn't former-PM Yingluck, also appoint a minister who had close links with that repellant regime, wonder who 'suggested' that to her ?

"The US treasury designated Nalinee as far back as November 2008 as one of four key "Mugabe regime cronies" who had repeatedly facilitated financial, real-estate and gem-related transactions on behalf of Grace Mugabe and Gideon Gono, the governor of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe, according to the US treasury website."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/24/friend-robert-mugabe-thai-government

"The charter has undergone more than a dozen rewrites in the last 80 years, either by democrats trying to consolidate parliamentary power"

Just the Democrats? Don't think so

...........................

I tried very hard but I can't see the place where it said "Just the Democrats"

Maybe you go back and read that article again ....... and again!

Whenever there is an EITHER there is an OR as well.

"The charter has undergone more than a dozen rewrites in the last 80 years,

EITHER by democrats trying to consolidate parliamentary power

OR counter moves by the royalist elite to create a more pliant democracy"

At least, if you want to quote something, quote it properly.

"The charter has undergone more than a dozen rewrites in the last 80 years, either by democrats trying to consolidate parliamentary power"

Just the Democrats? Don't think so

"In the eyes of the country's elite, democratically elected politicians have ruined Thailand with populist policies and cronyism that lead the poor astray."

So AFP thinks populism and cronyism are good things?

"A year ago the veteran conservative was giving rousing speeches to crowds of protesters clamouring for the toppling of prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra and a military takeover.

Thailand's generals did just that in May."

Really? I thought yingluck had been removed before then.

AFP take on things, always at right angles to the truth, not lies {well not always} but never the whole truth.

Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.-John Stuart Mill

The sad thing is that the choice in Thailand seems to be a military dictatorship or a kleptomaniac version of democrcy by the Shinawatra Dynasty. Both seem to be roads to ruin. Where are the new, integer and well educated youngster that will lead Thailand in the future?

There are many, like Nattanan Warintarawet en Netiwit Chotiphatpaisal. Look them up. Others are banned, prosecuted or threatened. Others don't dare to raise their voices. What do you expect in this circumstances?

I'm guessing that the PM is not planning a trip to the USA or Europe any time soon. He can visit his intellectual brother in Zimbabwe, better hurry up as he is on borrowed time.

Yet ti's Thaksin who does business with Zimbabwe, not the current-PM, and who regards someone like Putin as a close friend ?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/spiegel-interview-with-thaksin-shinawatra-thailand-must-be-united-again-a-768492.html

"Thaksin: I'm often in Africa where I've invested in gold mines in Uganda, in platinum and coal in South Africa and Zimbabwe and Tanzania."

and "I also travel to Russia very often to meet my old friend, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin."

And didn't former-PM Yingluck, also appoint a minister who had close links with that repellant regime, wonder who 'suggested' that to her ?

"The US treasury designated Nalinee as far back as November 2008 as one of four key "Mugabe regime cronies" who had repeatedly facilitated financial, real-estate and gem-related transactions on behalf of Grace Mugabe and Gideon Gono, the governor of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe, according to the US treasury website."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/24/friend-robert-mugabe-thai-government

Two can play that game

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4658

But that's ok. Keep trying to deflect attention away from the points made in the OP because you can't justify them.

Some guy wrote something.

A newspaper printed it.

Doesn't make it gospel people.

The one thing that many of seem to forget, especially the likes of Costas, is that if we Farangs don't like the way things are going, we can always leave, the majority of the voting Thais cant!!

There isn't a single expat here being forced to live here, we have the choice to leave and go home.... the Thais don't.

Of course, no tread on TV would be complete without the obligatory:

"If you don't like it, you can leave and go home"

In the same context:

Should you not like the haircut of your wife today, go back to your ex.

The sad thing is that the choice in Thailand seems to be a military dictatorship or a kleptomaniac version of democrcy by the Shinawatra Dynasty. Both seem to be roads to ruin. Where are the new, integer and well educated youngster that will lead Thailand in the future?

Bit simplistic, are we?

There are many choices except these two...and chances are, 99% of them are a chip of the same block!

"The charter has undergone more than a dozen rewrites in the last 80 years, either by democrats trying to consolidate parliamentary power"

Just the Democrats? Don't think so

...........................

I tried very hard but I can't see the place where it said "Just the Democrats"

Maybe you go back and read that article again ....... and again!

Whenever there is an EITHER there is an OR as well.

"The charter has undergone more than a dozen rewrites in the last 80 years,

EITHER by democrats trying to consolidate parliamentary power

OR counter moves by the royalist elite to create a more pliant democracy"

At least, if you want to quote something, quote it properly.

"For many Thais the constitutional debate has a sense of deja vu. The charter has undergone more than a dozen rewrites in the last 80 years, either by democrats trying to consolidate parliamentary power or counter moves by the royalist elite to create a more pliant democracy."

There is the quote in the full. It implies and indicates the same thing I was pointing out in full as in the part I used. I.E. that AFP is implying that it is only the dems and their alleged allies to change constitutions.

If you are going to criticise a poster try to understand their point first.

And by the way, when you quote a poster, try to do it in full.

Oh the irony!!

The same posters supporting the push for the golden era aka the good old days for the elite, are the very same posters active on threads condemning when the elite's kids are getting away with murder.

Remember young Miss Na Ayudhya or the Red Bull heir?

Must be a relief for members of the elite to have support from posters from democratic countries in their eager to cling on to power and wealth.

You guys are indeed supporting and encouraging, that some people are above the law!!

I'm guessing that the PM is not planning a trip to the USA or Europe any time soon. He can visit his intellectual brother in Zimbabwe, better hurry up as he is on borrowed time.

Yet ti's Thaksin who does business with Zimbabwe, not the current-PM, and who regards someone like Putin as a close friend ?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/spiegel-interview-with-thaksin-shinawatra-thailand-must-be-united-again-a-768492.html

"Thaksin: I'm often in Africa where I've invested in gold mines in Uganda, in platinum and coal in South Africa and Zimbabwe and Tanzania."

and "I also travel to Russia very often to meet my old friend, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin."

And didn't former-PM Yingluck, also appoint a minister who had close links with that repellant regime, wonder who 'suggested' that to her ?

"The US treasury designated Nalinee as far back as November 2008 as one of four key "Mugabe regime cronies" who had repeatedly facilitated financial, real-estate and gem-related transactions on behalf of Grace Mugabe and Gideon Gono, the governor of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe, according to the US treasury website."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/24/friend-robert-mugabe-thai-government

Two can play that game

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4658

But that's ok. Keep trying to deflect attention away from the points made in the OP because you can't justify them.

Good response !

And please rest assured, that if ever General P. does make an investment in North Korea, I will similarly regard him as an "intellectual brother" of a dictator, and be similarly censorious !

There is a question that I've wanted to ask for a long time.....

Yes, we all agree that politicians tend to mess up things.

Yes, it is often said "that the army had to step in to clean up the mess that politicians made".

Yes, that sounds rather reasonable.

But here is my question:

Do you know of 1 example, anywhere in the world, in any time of history, where the army actually cleaned up the mess?

Surely not Galtieri, Jaruzelski, Patakos, Franco, Salazar, Benito, Othello de Carvalho, Pinochet, Yazov, Mobutu, - I hope I have covered all tendancies.

As a matter of fact, I remember that after the "clean up", the politicians had to come back to clean upthe even bigger mess.

So, any enlightening examples?

Possibly Park Chung-Hee in South Korea is an example though not for democracy or human rights.

People keep forgetting that the elite think they own Thailand and its people no matter which side is in power.

A return to pre 1932 would be ideal when fear and stability reigned and dissent was brutally crushed.

I see that Thailand's female prison population has doubled to 50,000 from 2009. Now that's a good start. Prisons to hold millions might be a good way to kickstart this pre bust economy.

' Golden era ' I don't even know what it is.... is it like the renaissance period? here in Thailand?

500 years later?.....

Golden eras where the elites hold sway always seem to end in tears - elite tears.

The difference is this century that the Thai people have experienced the chance to choose their government on what, 4 occasions so far. They have seen their choice dismissed by the elite 3 out of those 4 times. As several here have already said,they now have access to an unrestricted means of communication and ideas in the internet. Sure the Junta could remove their access to the internet, but does anyone believe that such a move would be anything than the spark which would light a fuze?

The days of golden eras where elite hold sway have gone, and they if they come back it will only be temporary.

Their choices were dismissed 3 out of 4 times because each time their choices had broken the laws of Thailand.

Do you think it is OK to be elected and then break any laws you wish with impunity and ignore any court judgements that go against you yet accept the ones in your favour.

Thaksin was NOT ousted by the coup as there was only a caretaker government and he has illegally assumed the power of the caretaker PM.

Samak broke the law by having a second job which the PM is not allowed to do and then compounded that by lying to the courts. Yes he was removed by the courts BUT he could have been reinstated quite legally by the PPP. He wasn't because Thaksin did not trust him as he wasn't "family". That is why Somchai became PM.

He was removed by the courts and the PPP was dissolved because of electoral fraud.

So the elite did not remove them at all. The sheer arrogance of the TRT, PPP and latterly the PTP are the problem and all can be traced back to Thaksin.

A return to pre 1932 would be ideal when fear and stability reigned and dissent was brutally crushed.

I see that Thailand's female prison population has doubled to 50,000 from 2009. Now that's a good start. Prisons to hold millions might be a good way to kickstart this pre bust economy.

A return to pre 1932 would be ideal when fear and stability reigned and dissent was brutally crushed.

In other words, not very much has changed in 83 years.......................

it will all end in tears and blood. I can still remembers all those TV members: all I can say now is be careful what you wish for.

'golden era' when elite held sway it must have been a wonderful time for the landed rich and a terrible time for the poor basically in servitude no better than slaves but then again the medieval times are over now and the knight on his trusty charger are not now required and the people can stand up and be counted now it’s the 21^st century now not 15^th century.

no surprises here. anyone with common sense knew this was coming and that the coup was an attempt to shore up power in the face of the inevitable.

it is just now that the facade is truly beginning to crack.

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

but Yingluck.......................

What democracy are you referring to JOC?

Democracy never existed in Thailand and I very much doubt that it will ever exist.

At least an effort is being made now to bring Thailand to a more civilized world with less corruption and better police force.

Ideals are for the masses, reality and common sense applies more to the right thinking person.

and exactly what democracy do you think he's talking about? Could it be the one where people - even farmers! - get to vote? Or the one where only the BKK elite have a say with the unelected buddy sytsem you seem to fawn over?

I have read this article which is written in the third person and has borrowed the tactics made popular by America's Fox News.

(1) Quote "experts" and unnamed sources

(2) Create a logic thread based on these anonymous opinions.

(3) Put words in other people's mouths

(4) Report on all this as though it is fact.

The headline should have been a give away that this is simply an anti current leadership ... short on facts ... and long on conjecture.

I hardly think if one were to ring up the General and ask him his future plans for the Kingdom, he would reply "....push for 'golden era' when elite held sway"

I certainly do not know, nor would I ever be so bold as to presume to know, what will be signed by whom in September.

To debate the author's fantasies of future events is a waste of time, and I think the whole Chicken Little / Sky is falling drill is ill timed and ill advised.

Thailand owns its cultural identity, and few of us (Foreigners) really understand it. We sit here on Thai Visa whining that "it is not like home" ... "Thai people do things differently" ... etc.

Exactly. Now you get it. And perhaps if we all took a momnet to measure what really matters in life ... freedom ... happiness, family, friendship, and a sense of community ... we could learn positive lessons from our hosts, instead of accepting an invitation to dinner, and s_____g on the roof.

Many will ridicule this posting .. and I do not care.

Thailand has been one of the great blessings in my life. I love the Kingdom, and hope to spend the rest of my life here. I am a guest here, and do not presume to lecture my gracious host.

Here is what I know, the vast majority of my Thai friends are in favor of what is happening ... they are the experts ... that is good enough for me.

This dream of golden era in Thailand (if you happen to own the gold mine that is) brings to mind ISIS wanting to return to golden era of Islam, which never was in either case, or at least how they picture it.

If you read the history of Thai politics from 1933....It is 15 coups all with the same play book and for decades now the same players.Nothing has ever changed. What is sad , When Thaksin became the PM it really did look like things would change. Instead he made a huge grab for more and more power and more money for him and his.One can only imagine what a PM that really had the people in mind could have accomplished.

I wonder what makes the CDC believe that the so-called German system will favor small political parties. As far as I can see in Germany there are 2 major political parties: the Social Democrats (SPD) and the Christian Democrats (CDU/CSU). Small parties have very little influence and have almost disappeared (FDP).

Instead of tieing knots with all the dictators in the area the General should rather have a look at the political reality in Germany incl. the German Constitutional Court (BGH), upholding human rights.

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

Exactly, why can't people see how the General will take this country back in to the dark ages.

And so true, you point it out to them and the morons go, what about Thaksin blablabla, he was so bad blablabla

Some on here are paid not to see. If you think I am incorrect do some internet research and you will find out that there are a RTA regiment dedicated to spreading propoganda on the internet. The last article on this regiment was in the Bangkok post in early 2012 indicated that they placed on average 18 000 post per day during the period July 2011 and November 2011. According to that article the regiment even had a facebook page. Both the article and the facebook page was pulled after the coup.

So in other words go ahead and vote in whoever you like and if the ELITE don't like what they do they will be quickly removed from office and replaced with people who do as they are told.

Sounds like they want Thailand to become a village again, run by unqualified elders who have no concept of global reality.

I wonder if they considered how this will play with the ASEAN issue which is around the corner?

There is a question that I've wanted to ask for a long time.....

Yes, we all agree that politicians tend to mess up things.

Yes, it is often said "that the army had to step in to clean up the mess that politicians made".

Yes, that sounds rather reasonable.

But here is my question:

Do you know of 1 example, anywhere in the world, in any time of history, where the army actually cleaned up the mess?

Surely not Galtieri, Jaruzelski, Patakos, Franco, Salazar, Benito, Othello de Carvalho, Pinochet, Yazov, Mobutu, - I hope I have covered all tendancies.

As a matter of fact, I remember that after the "clean up", the politicians had to come back to clean upthe even bigger mess.

So, any enlightening examples?

Idi Amin missed your list...a worthy contender