Survey: Are foreigners in Thailand more negative than people in their home country?

[ronwparker]

i have been here many years so am up to police brutality and corruption but many newer people somtimes find disrurbing and overdevelopment near major cities is happening worlwide

[grantbkk]

I agree with some of the posters that after a short honeymoon period invariably you're going to start reassessing everything Thai. If you go at it with a western perspective the only outcome will be negative. Then one day you begin to look at it from your host county's eyes. If not you become a TV poster where most exhibit a kind of manic depression. Not only is the glass half empty, it is empty. So much negativity begins to poor out the posters don't ever realize that they are pouring their guts out, giving clues to the root cause of clinical depression.

Anyway...... Polling TV members in this case is like asking terminally ill people how happy they are.

[BudRight]

The problem is that despite having money, livelihood, family, property and years of life invested in Thailand, there is a culture of exclusion towards people that were not born in Thailand and do not look Thai. After awhile many 'expats' adopt this attitude themselves in order to cope. As a practical matter it is dis-empowering - no choice of job, no involvement in the political process (whatever it is!), no ability to own property yourself, and often no 'home' to go back to away from Thailand. Those who haven't deluded themselves into thinking that their ability to put up with it makes them enlightened or 'adjusted' or superior, complain to other expats as a last recourse of frustration. This wasn't brought with them. It was planted, cultivated and blossomed in Thailand and by Thais.

As a reality check - ask yourselves how the 'don't like it? go home!' and 'you're a guest here - shut up' crowd would be seen wherever you came from. Where I'm from people would say you were an intolerant anti-immigrant redneck jackass. And yet, these opinions are considered to be a healthy adjustment to living in Thailand.

'If you can't change anything, why be upset?'

Being unable change anything - especially things in own your life - seems like a damn good reason to be upset.

Edited March 30, 2015 by BudRight

[TSF]

What gets me the most reading forums like this one is not the ones who post negative views but the ones who seem to believe that Thailand is never to be criticized. That's like the Thai mentality - thou shalt not criticize Thailand or any Thai or anything Thai. And if someone does criticize then the attitude is: what are you doing here? If you don't like it F off back where you come from.

Everywhere has positive and negative aspects, good and bad, great things and terrible things. So what makes anyone think Thailand and Thais are above being criticized?

[beb]

What gets me the most reading forums like this one is not the ones who post negative views but the ones who seem to believe that Thailand is never to be criticized. That's like the Thai mentality - thou shalt not criticize Thailand or any Thai or anything Thai. And if someone does criticize then the attitude is: what are you doing here? If you don't like it F off back where you come from.

Everywhere has positive and negative aspects, good and bad, great things and terrible things. So what makes anyone think Thailand and Thais are above being criticized?

There's a big difference between recognizing faults in Thailand and having a compulsion to attribute every mishap that happens to Thai stupidity, dishonesty, corruption etc.

There's a difference between complaining about the guy that slowed down and turned left off the highway, while in the middle lane and coming up with some crackpot conspiracy theory after a child dies.

There's a difference between speaking the truth and being absolutely unpleasant to interact with.

There's a huge difference between relocating to another country and then complaining daily because the country and the people are the same country and people you chose to live in and among, and staying there only to keep complaining, and saying to yourself "You know, this isn't the place I want to be in. It's time I moved on."

And finally, there is a difference between dealing with frustrations that will always greet us every day wherever we live and going on an expat forum every day and raging for hours instead of finding a solution, any solution.

[kannot]

Negative.jpg

What? ..............ignorance

[canuckamuck]

When you come from a place that is ruled by science, logic, and regulations; and also where the corruption is not so obvious and the press holds people to account. It can be difficult to observe an entire nation which doesn't appear to place any value on these things, and avoid the compulsion to make critical remarks.

Edited March 30, 2015 by canuckamuck

[TSF]

What gets me the most reading forums like this one is not the ones who post negative views but the ones who seem to believe that Thailand is never to be criticized. That's like the Thai mentality - thou shalt not criticize Thailand or any Thai or anything Thai. And if someone does criticize then the attitude is: what are you doing here? If you don't like it F off back where you come from.

Everywhere has positive and negative aspects, good and bad, great things and terrible things. So what makes anyone think Thailand and Thais are above being criticized?

There's a big difference between recognizing faults in Thailand and having a compulsion to attribute every mishap that happens to Thai stupidity, dishonesty, corruption etc.

There's a difference between complaining about the guy that slowed down and turned left off the highway, while in the middle lane and coming up with some crackpot conspiracy theory after a child dies.

There's a difference between speaking the truth and being absolutely unpleasant to interact with.

There's a huge difference between relocating to another country and then complaining daily because the country and the people are the same country and people you chose to live in and among, and staying there only to keep complaining, and saying to yourself "You know, this isn't the place I want to be in. It's time I moved on."

And finally, there is a difference between dealing with frustrations that will always greet us every day wherever we live and going on an expat forum every day and raging for hours instead of finding a solution, any solution.

Duh?

[slipperylobster]

Depends on whether you are talking about Chinese tourists, Western tourists or Expats from both.

I suspect there are many foreigners that come from countries that are worse off. In my opinion, most of the grumpy complainers come from our own Expat Community. Possibly, they have never had to adapt to a different culture for any length of time, and have difficulty with anything that does not fit in their small box of righteousness. One sourpuss can ruin the day for those of us who are enjoying the differences.

The happiest foreigners I met were the ones who settled down far away from the cliche tourist trap areas. Sometimes too many neon lights and hooker havens can convert an optimist to a pessimist.

Fresh air, exercise and down home living (I find that most of my Thai neighbors are extremely friendly) can change you for the better. I have lived in self indulgence (women, beer and song) and it still has the allure. However, I felt myself sliding to negativity, so I relocated, cut down on the alley cat behavior, moved up country to an area where I am surrounded by pleasant views, purchased a shiny, comfortable vehicle, rented a huge house with a nice garden....and ride my bicycle with my wife twice a day. An afternoon swim...a night out on the town (once per week)...mountain/waterfall hikes.....and frequent walks in the beautiful park at Huay Teung Tao. The dogs there adopted us (there are many..but very happy and healthy ones). We named them all and they include us in their pack. Even running up to our car (no food involved) to greet us. Almost like we are their owners.

Bottom line...it is not that People view Thailand negatively...per se. It is more accurate to say that negative foreigners are the ones that don't let there family eat rice (because we do not eat rice back home), think all dogs are homeless (no leash laws here), complain about double pricing (it is bargaining skills/knowledge that they themselves lack...in a place where open markets are flexible). List goes on.

Adapt, improvise and overcome your old ways....

Edited March 30, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Luxfare]

I think you'd have to take it person by person, what type of person out here is cynical? what age are they? what is their history? what is their monthly income? what nation do they hail from?

Thailand has it's problems and while I'm not oblivious to them, I accept them because my standard of life out here is far better than it was in the UK- and I'm not naive enough to think that any nation is perfect. What gets my heckles up about the "Thai bashers" are those who just needlessly complain...about anything and everything even if said complaint has never personally happened to them....you then have the "hypocrites", the ones who expect the same level as service as back in their nations of birth yet at a quarter of the price (If you get in a taxi that costs 100 baht for your journey, don't expect the UK level of service in which you'd pay 600thb for the same journey).

I'm only 36, so I still work, I'm financially comfortable and have a well off, Western educated Thai wife...so I understand I'm certainly not going to have anywhere near as much to complain about as Pensioner Pete who's living on the breadline, dating a girl who sees him as a walking ATM and has lived longer and thus has become more cynical due to life's ups and downs.....maybe in 30 years I will be , but not today.

[slipperylobster]

When you come from a place that is ruled by science, logic, and regulations; and also where the corruption is not so obvious and the press holds people to account. It can be difficult to observe an entire nation which doesn't appear to place any value on these things, and avoid the compulsion to make critical remarks.

Except that, in the land ruled by science, logic and regulations, you get a president named Obama and live across the street from a Walmart.

[Luxfare]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

What gets me the most reading forums like this one is not the ones who post negative views but the ones who seem to believe that Thailand is never to be criticized. That's like the Thai mentality - thou shalt not criticize Thailand or any Thai or anything Thai. And if someone does criticize then the attitude is: what are you doing here? If you don't like it F off back where you come from.

Everywhere has positive and negative aspects, good and bad, great things and terrible things. So what makes anyone think Thailand and Thais are above being criticized?

You have a point, however there's a big difference between being critical of something clearly wrong....and negatively generalizing about Thailand based on the "dubious" facts that are often posted on TVF aimed at creating controversy and conveniently "hits" or slating a place without offering any sort of solution.

There are several on TVF that only type negative comments and to those I do say "go home", I left the UK ( my nation of birth ) because the negatives outweighed the positives...if the same happens to me in Thailand then I'll have some thinking to do- what I won't do is just slate the place while staying here.

[Stan42]

I have to agree with the negativity on TVF.

"Beware! Land of Scams, I just witnessed something horrible, I've been cheated, the government is evil, prices are skyrocketing... blah blah blah." There are good days and there are bad days, but TVF posters usually post after having a bad day.

[Kondiao]

The answer is YES, just read the posts, and you can say most cathegories. Most sad it's that they always find something to complaint about even when people have jumped from balconies or other fatal accidents. Then it's the way the police mention medications, diapers etc that bother them. There are of course a decent amount of people that appreciate Thailand and their wonderful people. I'm a older male with my fare share of illnesses and some days I don't want to see people due to severe pain, but when you walk outside or visit your local restaurant specially on theses bad days and are greeted with all these amazing smiles your pain melts away and you realize how lucky you are that are accepted in their country.

Is everything picture perfect here? Of course not, but at least you have a place where you feel safe, where people respect you and your handicaps and if you fall on the street or drop your cane someone will help you or pick up your cane with a smile. I went to Big C the other day and bought a little bit to much staff, took taxi home and the security guard in my condo building saw that I struggled and came and helped me up to my condo with the bags. My doorman in New York would do the same after I have to call him and he would expect no less then $20.00 tip for that, are occasions when the doorman have asked for $40.00 and don't even offer a smile. With this said, yes I think a lot of people here have nothing better to do then complain.

What you say has merit - and it is true in context.

BUT... it is also true that these smiling local people would not help you - at all - if you fell into into a klong; they would not run into a burning building to save you - or to save their own friends; they would not think to help you if you have an accident and are lying on the road bleeding, or make a move to prevent you having an accident. I have done all these things, or had help from others when I was down and hurting, in the U.S.A. and in Canada. Thai people will take pictures of you, suffering. I am not denying that Thai people are courteous to the elderly, but they would not even think of putting themselves at risk, or even at inconvenience, for a stranger or for a friend.

I have lived in a 3d World country where people did really, routinely stop what they were doing to genuinely help out a stranger, even a foreigner. I won't get into what country that was here.

But if you are going to talk about the pleasant, courteous aspects of Thai culture, please be honest about the cowardice and lack of empathy too.

[EnglishJohn]

I Thailand you certainly have to accept the rough with the smooth. The rough drives me crazy sometimes, but if you can put it out of your mind there's plenty of smooth as well.

Forums allow you to vent at the rough (usually dirty politicians and their supporters) so I think the negative impression you get from here is not indicative of general life.

[Thaddeus]

Empty vessels make the most noise.

Thailand is a very noisy place.

now that was very negative

Did I lie?

Did you lie? What you did was be negative in a negative way....you attacked other members who don't share your same view.

Ahh, you made an assumption that I was attacking members of this forum, wrong, so so wrong.

[Berkshire]

Many things in Thailand are managed poorly. In foreign country's the westerners all complaint about them so they will be improved.

In Thailand nobody complaints and takes things as they are. So it looks like westerners are more negativ but believe me the Thai also don't like it.

Example: Yesterday at Victory Monument, there were qeueu's from 30 metre for the ticketvending machines and cashiers. That's insane but no Thai will complaint, they even apologise to eachother when those machines won't accept their coins and other travellers have to wait longer because of that.

In the West this would happen one time only, then we all complaint and the manager of the skytrain would be informed. If he didn't change that very fast then we would sack him and rent a real manager.

That's not being negative, It's how western country's became developed.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at the comment above. What planet is Mr. Thian from? It certainly can't be the planet Earth as I don't know any country like this. He suggests that in the west, "the manager of the skytrain would be sacked if he didn't respond to complaints"...? No way in heck if he's in a union or a government employee. In my home country (USA), there are a long list of things we complain and complain about and nothing ever changes. I would imagine it's the same in most developed countries.

But Mr. Thian brings up a great example of what's wrong with the typical Thai-basher on TV. It's their superiority complex, mixed in with a dose of delusion and ignorance. They pick out something about the Thais and swear that back home it couldn't possibly be like that, when in fact it is. But it's just different enough to confuse people like...well, Mr. Thian. What planet....eh, country are you from Sir?

[Laughing Gravy]

No not negative just tell the truth and have an opinion. What I would say is that Foreigners will have a say and many Thai people are not use to expressing their view, especially as it might be deemed negative. The ruling elite have used this tactic for a while, citing anyone having an opinion, as anti Thai or negative.

I, like many others who are foreigners here, genuinely care and don't like the constant inequality and two tier system that is rife here

Just because we don't agree with everything doesn't mean we don't like living here, as we do. So the 'if you don't like it go home brigade' need to understand that.

[trainman34014]

It's all &lt;deleted&gt; ! People moan wherever they are on the Planet and Thai's and Foreigner's do the same here.

Apart from my early childhood i can't really think of a day that i haven't heard somebody moaning about something, someone or somewhere unless i've been somewhere remote and alone.

Can't see the point in moaning about moaners....live and let live....and moan a bit if you want to !

[Luxfare]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

No not negative just tell the truth and have an opinion. What I would say is that Foreigners will have a say and many Thai people are not use to expressing their view, especially as it might be deemed negative. The ruling elite have used this tactic for a while, citing anyone having an opinion, as anti Thai or negative.

I, like many others who are foreigners here, genuinely care and don't like the constant inequality and two tier system that is rife here

Just because we don't agree with everything doesn't mean we don't like living here, as we do. So the 'if you don't like it go home brigade' need to understand that.

You may genuinely care about the opressed Thais but I'm willing to bet a penny to a pound that 99% of those who Thai bash do it because they want their own lives improved at the expense of local Thais.

I once had a discussion in a bar with a 60 something ex pat who did nothing but complain about the police, complain about the local infrastructure, complain about the local health care.......when I pointed out that those things were better in our own nations because we pay local government taxes (The council tax in the UK) and would he be willing to pay an extra 3-4,000Thb per month in order to improve the services that he was complaining about, his response was "why should I, I put into the economy?"........ I pointed out that living expenses were everywhere and that what he put into the economy (his pension I assume as he wasn't working) was to survive like he would have to pay anywhere in the world, whereas I and many others who work in Thailand actually pay more towards the infrastructure of the country than he did due to our taxes.......needless to say it didn't go down well with him and I was told "I didn't know what I was talking about" etc etc.

You cannot expect a free lunch in this world, in Thailand or anywhere else....yet some people still do.

[Diddl]

No, only the majority of people on TV who have nothing better to do than slander Thais, be rude and abusive, and anything else that takes their fancy!

[mikiea]

I think most questions so far are too general. There is a big difference between foreigners on TVF and just foreigners here on short or long holidays. I meet many foreigners here for holidays. They mostly like it very much and I hear very few negative comments and many good ones. On TVF it's more like junior high school girls bitching about every possible thing in their lives. When you wake up negative many people stay that way the rest of the day.

huh..huh most tv peeps have bitching jr high school girl friends, just saying...:-)

[janpoo]

Negative is not the right word.

[English 1]

After 12 years here I have a very strong view....being very analytical by nature and far from a dumb Sex Tourist or Mid Life Crisis who fell for all the cons.

I lived in Issan for 5 years , Jomtien for 1 and Bangkok about 7.

My experience and observations are clear....

The Sex Tourist of course has permanent Rose coloured Glasses and although he knows he's a 'prat' at heart he wants for 2 weeks or so to believe that that young Girl or Boy loves him.

The guys who actually fall for all the lies and move here....along with their big company pension....are indeed Negative because they quickly GIVE IN to the Thai becoming the Boss.....they accept it and get cleaned out.....for the sake of peace...Mmmmm?

Fortunately, I don't fall into the Dumbo crowd but observe it daily.

Enjoy but remember 'Buyer Beware!'

Edited March 30, 2015 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[slipperylobster]

We should be honoring the "Prime Directive", as Captain Kirk would always say...just before entering his cabin with yet another alien girl.

[GuestHouse]

We should be honoring the "Prime Directive", as Captain Kirk would always say...just before entering his cabin with yet another alien girl.

Who invariably turned out to be an android.

[GuestHouse]

Once again we return to the perineal topic of 'other peoples negative views of Thailand' and the broad brush classification of people as 'Thai Bashers'.

The question I always ask when this topic comes up is, why do the opinions others have and express bother you so much?

Its a truism, if any of us make a choice we are truly happy with then the opinions others express about our choice will be like water off a duck's back.

And of course there is the 'if you don't like it, go home' line of response, which seldom stands scrutiny.

A guy has a bad experience, perhaps the only bad experience he's had for a long while - he writes about it on TVF, perhaps to let off steam, perhaps to warn others, perhaps to ask for advice, perhaps because TVF is the only place he can express his views with people who speak his language.

So now on the basis of a single complaint, someone else (usually more than one someone else) is ranting at him to go home.

Appart from the absurdity of the line of argument that an individual should up root their life for having expressed an opinion some others don't like, there is the observation I've made, not once, but many many times during my time in Thailand.

When it comes to the sudden epiphany, the conniption fit, the sudden uprooting and disappearance from Thailand to back home; the people I've seen do this have all, and without exception, been people who while in Thailand would hear no criticism of the place.

By example, a friend I've known for 20 years, 15 years in Thailand, recently uprooted and went home; I spoke with him in the weeks before he left, he was seething with emotion, couldn't get out fast enough. This a man who I've had dozens of conversations with in which his ranted against people complaining about Thailand, refusing to hear even the slightest negative comment, regardless of how well founded it might be.

I put this down to a sudden flip in the mind, when denial of the truth can no longer be reconciled with reality.

Far better I think, to take a balanced view, positives and negatives. And when we meet someone having a bad day, or a good day, accept the fact that we all have good and bad days - its the way the swing swings.

If other people's negative comments wind you up, ask yourself why.

The answer is almost certainly close to home.

Edited March 30, 2015 by GuestHouse

[slipperylobster]

We should be honoring the "Prime Directive", as Captain Kirk would always say...just before entering his cabin with yet another alien girl.

Who invariably turned out to be an android.

I hate that when that happens. Then you get all tangled up in the wires.

[Laughing Gravy]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

No not negative just tell the truth and have an opinion. What I would say is that Foreigners will have a say and many Thai people are not use to expressing their view, especially as it might be deemed negative. The ruling elite have used this tactic for a while, citing anyone having an opinion, as anti Thai or negative.

I, like many others who are foreigners here, genuinely care and don't like the constant inequality and two tier system that is rife here

Just because we don't agree with everything doesn't mean we don't like living here, as we do. So the 'if you don't like it go home brigade' need to understand that.

You may genuinely care about the opressed Thais but I'm willing to bet a penny to a pound that 99% of those who Thai bash do it because they want their own lives improved at the expense of local Thais.

I once had a discussion in a bar with a 60 something ex pat who did nothing but complain about the police, complain about the local infrastructure, complain about the local health care.......when I pointed out that those things were better in our own nations because we pay local government taxes (The council tax in the UK) and would he be willing to pay an extra 3-4,000Thb per month in order to improve the services that he was complaining about, his response was "why should I, I put into the economy?"........ I pointed out that living expenses were everywhere and that what he put into the economy (his pension I assume as he wasn't working) was to survive like he would have to pay anywhere in the world, whereas I and many others who work in Thailand actually pay more towards the infrastructure of the country than he did due to our taxes.......needless to say it didn't go down well with him and I was told "I didn't know what I was talking about" etc etc.

You cannot expect a free lunch in this world, in Thailand or anywhere else....yet some people still do.

Yes I agree and willingly pay my taxes. I also contribute to the economy as I have done for many years. No I can't buy a house or vote. I understand that but don't completely agree with not being able to buy a house, in ones name. What I do without any reserve dislike the corrupt practices of the Police, government organisation's and many other things. Usually the common/average/person getting shafted.. Just because things are said and done here in the name of culture and tradition, doesn't mean it is always right.

As a westerner, luckily brought up in a society were I could question things, criticising for me isn't a bad thing, in fact the opposite. Certainly on a message board blowing of steam, can be useful. Far too many people take TV to seriously. It is peoples opinions, if people don't agree or like it, they should scroll down.

I would like to see transparency and accountability. I personally believe it will benefit the Thai and foreign people here who call it home.

[AlexRRR]

I stay clear of negative types of the ones i cant like family members i just dont visit often, BUT this forum seems to have an above average number of pessimistic people who share there wealth of knowledge with us.