Thailand's roads: Why are they so dangerous?

[NangrongJ]

It's easy to wax lyrical and mouth of with suggestions. However, Thailand, in contrast to most, if not all of its Asian neighbours, is an insular country. The indoctrination from birth, through controlled education to censored media, given them a limited if not narrow view of life. Most countries are forced,usually by financial sanctions (not just political but economic) to toe the line. Thailand punches above its weight because of its economy. As long as Thailand is making money, tourists still come (and die), there is no motivation to change. Pressure needs to be applied, firstly by the consulates. It sickens me when a Western foreigner is murdered, they go into a frenzy, yet when the same are killed in RTA;s the consulates don't want to know. Thailand will do nothing other than lip service as long as there is no, or limited international pressure.

[redandyellow]

It's easy to wax lyrical and mouth of with suggestions. However, Thailand, in contrast to most, if not all of its Asian neighbours, is an insular country. The indoctrination from birth, through controlled education to censored media, given them a limited if not narrow view of life. Most countries are forced,usually by financial sanctions (not just political but economic) to toe the line. Thailand punches above its weight because of its economy. As long as Thailand is making money, tourists still come (and die), there is no motivation to change. Pressure needs to be applied, firstly by the consulates. It sickens me when a Western foreigner is murdered, they go into a frenzy, yet when the same are killed in RTA;s the consulates don't want to know. Thailand will do nothing other than lip service as long as there is no, or limited international pressure.

The foreign media says little to sweet F all about the veritable, ongoing, chronic, un addressed issue of the myriad of inherent dangers in the LOS for tourists, waxing eloquently instead about pristine Thai beaches, in 20 year old regurgitated newspaper articles, beaches now covered in plastic bags by the F'ing way.

It plays right into the hands of the good guys (TAT),

Effectively giving them tacit approval to carry on doing sweet F all about the issue of excessive foreigner fatalities in the Kingdom. YAWN

[neeray]

Okay, I'll put my 3 satang in..

With supreme caution and cultural knowledge, driving in Thailand can be a pleasurable and rewarding experience. Driving in Thailand can also be a horrible nightmare. Usually it's somewhere in the middle of the two extremes - something akin to carefully navigating a vehicle through a three ring circus, with clowns of all manner. They drive on motorcycles, in trucks, buses, mini vans, songthaews and cars, along with some responsible defensive drivers - on Thailand's congested, intrinsically dangerous roads.

Excessive speed usually plays a large role in fatal roadway accidents - not simply road conditions as the police asserted in this tragedy. Anyone who drives in Thailand knows that drivers constantly drive too fast - and too close to the driver ahead of them. Period, end of story really. Tailgating and speeding is the norm in Thailand; it's almost embedded in the DNA of Thai drivers.

Let's compare driver training times in Thailand with say Canada. In Thailand, it takes two days or less to get a driver's license. In Canada it takes three years, or about 1,093 more days than in Thailand. In Thailand, you're required (starting in 2015) to take a one day training course, a written test and a driver's test, lasting about ten minutes. There's no instructor in the car with the new driver, as in Canada. They simply observe the student maneuvering in a parking lot. Then you're good to go. One of my relatives in Phuket failed the test three times, then paid the instructor to get a pass. This happens all the time. He recently was involved in a near fatal collision. Driving home intoxicated from a soccer game in Phuket, he crossed the median and hit a power pole on the other side of the road. There was no talk in the large family about drinking and driving, but there certainly was a family trip to Wat Chalong, to thank Buddha that the relative survived the self-inflicted, near-fatal collision. In Canada, a beginning driver has to pass a test, then they are required to drive with an experienced driver for one year. After one year they have another written and road test. If they pass that, they are a New Driver for the next two years. After three years, they take another written and practical test. Only then are they given full status as a driver.The Thai system takes two days, or alternately, you can just pay for the license. The Canadian system takes three years, with a total of three written and two practical tests. In addition, new drivers aren't allowed to drive by themselves for one year.

It's no bloody accident that Thailand has the second most dangerous roadways on the planet, and the most dangerous roadways in the world for motorcycles. In Thailand, extremely lax driver- training standards are just the tip of the proverbial foreigner fatality factor ice-burg. Tailgating and speeding cause more deaths than anything else - including road conditions. The Royal Thai traffic police normally attribute fatal roadway accidents to road conditions by default, as opposed to what really causes most fatal roadway accidents in Thailand - dangerous and careless driving. Attributing most accidents to road conditions as opposed to chronic driver error speaks volumes to the systemic driving culture in Thailand - a very dangerous one indeed. The lack of attention to reality (willful or otherwise) adds another sordid layer onto the complex problem of excessive roadway fatalities in Thailand.

To be clear - there are many good drivers in Thailand, along with hordes of highly dangerous, unpredictable ones. Many drivers lack basic driving skills, basic knowledge and courtesy. They frequently ignore road signs, traffic lights, speed limits and the police. They drive recklessly, in the wrong direction, run red lights, and often possess no driver's license. They take little heed of precautionary safety measures. The name of the game on Thai roads for foreigners is survivability, through caution, defensive driving and adaptation.

Deadly driving sins on Thai roads include small children not strapped down in car seats, distracted drivers texting and using mobile devices, all while swerving dangerously in and out of traffic, driving in the wrong lane, multi-tasking, overtaking and accelerating on dangerous curves (this is a very chronic issue) and turning without signaling. Besides dangerous drivers, the country has a very heavy volume of traffic on roadways and in cities. In addition, roadways are frequently poorly marked and maintained. Some time ago for safety reasons, the Thai government was considering a major change. Roadway driving would shift from left-hand to right- hand driving. Many people said it wouldn't change things much, because Thai people are already constantly driving on the wrong side of the road.

Caveat: This is 100% my own writing, not that it's good. I live in Canada, but spend 4 months a year in Thailand, have a plain Jane Silver Toyota Hilux Pickup in Phuket (don't we all?), and have driven around most of the country, save for the deep south. Last year I drove from Phuket to Chiang Rai, on to Pai, and back. I saw 8 car accidents and 8 dead dogs before I stopped counting, about half way from Phuket to Bangkok, LOL.

Signed,

Keep your Bloody Head on a Swivel (or it's Check) MATE

I guess I experienced an unusual month of travelling in Thailand this past January. I only saw 2 small fender benders (as we call them in Canada) in an estimated one thousand km of travelling. However, my travelling was not in major traffic centers (Surat Thani city and countryside, Ao Nang/Krabi, Hua Hin). I am aware of the Thai traffic statistics but overall, I thought drivers 'melded' together much better than in Canada. I did not see one incident of road rage. Yes, driving did look somewhat hectic by some.

In Toronto and area where I live, one is hard pressed to drive 10 or 20 km without seeing a major intersection accident. And road rage is plentiful. We do have strict rules on acquiring a license, texting while driving, speeding, seat belt enforcement, impaired driving ......... but still, our drivers produce an awful lot of accidents.

At least in the areas that I travelled (and will again for the month of May), my observation was that Thai drivers were self-governing.

[off road pat]

The author of the article has essentially missed the point....he/she thinks that by concentrating mainly on statistics a conclusion can be reached - and does this purely on their own observations - the whole thing is misleading - whereas drink-driving is obviously an issue seeing it as the single be-all and end-all is simply wrong. There is a clue in the OP question - i.e "Thailand's roads" - here is a significant contribution to the appalling death rates.

Road safety relies on proper use of the 5 Es.

1 Education

2 Enforcement

3 Engineering

4 Emergency

5 Evaluation

Unless ALL these are addressed there can be no significant change in the situation on Thai roads.

The road safety bodies of Thailand are well aware of this - unfortunately the relevant authorities seem unmotivated to act on them.

Many people seem to think that Thailand is inherently a nation of bad drivers - apart from being a racist argument it is of course nonsense. Drivers worldwide are idiots, it is how a nation handles this idiocy that makes all the difference.

Something to think about - UK is constantly in the top five in the world for safe roads - by ay set of stats you like to use.....and Thailand is constantly in the worlds top five worst.

Yet both countries have about the same number of RTCs - road traffic collisions - . So this would indicate that it is not just the nature of the driving but how it is controlled and how people are treated during and after an RTC

Intelligent response Well said,....it's a change from the usual Thai bashing from other people....

[NangrongJ]

Stating that the UK and Thailand has the same amount of RTC's is far from accurate. I accept the point and principle within the comment alluding to the post-collision care. The UN/WHO can only, in parts, estimate the true figures as the statistics given in Thailand are regarded as inadequate. This is not just, or only malicious but also incompetence. Many RTC's go unrecorded. I can give one example; 2006 I witness a vat=n hit two motorcyclists. The motorcyclists were stationary leaning against a wall (I was in the bar/cafe next to it). They were on holiday from Ireland. One had a severely broken leg, the other broken leg and ankle as well as a dislocated shoulder. The van driver tried to get away but local Thai vendors stopped and caught him. The police came quite quickly. I accompanied them to hospital, and gave my details. We fast forward two months. I receive an email from one of the lads and his insurance company. I follow it up by going to the police and hospital for verification. They had no records of the said incident, neither the police or hospital. Just in and out. I accept this may not happen in Bangkok, Pattaya or a similar big city. But in rural Thailand, such matters do not get recorded. Many of those driving may have stolen vehicles, on drugs or have a background they want to keep dark. For such reasons, many are settled out of court and the injuries are not recorded as RTC's. I am aware of the estimated death rates related to Thailand and not simply based upon one university (Michigan) that did not even visit Thailand.

[off road pat]

Okay, I'll put my 3 satang in..

With supreme caution and cultural knowledge, driving in Thailand can be a pleasurable and rewarding experience. Driving in Thailand can also be a horrible nightmare. Usually it's somewhere in the middle of the two extremes - something akin to carefully navigating a vehicle through a three ring circus, with clowns of all manner. They drive on motorcycles, in trucks, buses, mini vans, songthaews and cars, along with some responsible defensive drivers - on Thailand's congested, intrinsically dangerous roads.

Excessive speed usually plays a large role in fatal roadway accidents - not simply road conditions as the police asserted in this tragedy. Anyone who drives in Thailand knows that drivers constantly drive too fast - and too close to the driver ahead of them. Period, end of story really. Tailgating and speeding is the norm in Thailand; it's almost embedded in the DNA of Thai drivers.

Let's compare driver training times in Thailand with say Canada. In Thailand, it takes two days or less to get a driver's license. In Canada it takes three years, or about 1,093 more days than in Thailand. In Thailand, you're required (starting in 2015) to take a one day training course, a written test and a driver's test, lasting about ten minutes. There's no instructor in the car with the new driver, as in Canada. They simply observe the student maneuvering in a parking lot. Then you're good to go. One of my relatives in Phuket failed the test three times, then paid the instructor to get a pass. This happens all the time. He recently was involved in a near fatal collision. Driving home intoxicated from a soccer game in Phuket, he crossed the median and hit a power pole on the other side of the road. There was no talk in the large family about drinking and driving, but there certainly was a family trip to Wat Chalong, to thank Buddha that the relative survived the self-inflicted, near-fatal collision. In Canada, a beginning driver has to pass a test, then they are required to drive with an experienced driver for one year. After one year they have another written and road test. If they pass that, they are a New Driver for the next two years. After three years, they take another written and practical test. Only then are they given full status as a driver.The Thai system takes two days, or alternately, you can just pay for the license. The Canadian system takes three years, with a total of three written and two practical tests. In addition, new drivers aren't allowed to drive by themselves for one year.

It's no bloody accident that Thailand has the second most dangerous roadways on the planet, and the most dangerous roadways in the world for motorcycles. In Thailand, extremely lax driver- training standards are just the tip of the proverbial foreigner fatality factor ice-burg. Tailgating and speeding cause more deaths than anything else - including road conditions. The Royal Thai traffic police normally attribute fatal roadway accidents to road conditions by default, as opposed to what really causes most fatal roadway accidents in Thailand - dangerous and careless driving. Attributing most accidents to road conditions as opposed to chronic driver error speaks volumes to the systemic driving culture in Thailand - a very dangerous one indeed. The lack of attention to reality (willful or otherwise) adds another sordid layer onto the complex problem of excessive roadway fatalities in Thailand.

To be clear - there are many good drivers in Thailand, along with hordes of highly dangerous, unpredictable ones. Many drivers lack basic driving skills, basic knowledge and courtesy. They frequently ignore road signs, traffic lights, speed limits and the police. They drive recklessly, in the wrong direction, run red lights, and often possess no driver's license. They take little heed of precautionary safety measures. The name of the game on Thai roads for foreigners is survivability, through caution, defensive driving and adaptation.

Deadly driving sins on Thai roads include small children not strapped down in car seats, distracted drivers texting and using mobile devices, all while swerving dangerously in and out of traffic, driving in the wrong lane, multi-tasking, overtaking and accelerating on dangerous curves (this is a very chronic issue) and turning without signaling. Besides dangerous drivers, the country has a very heavy volume of traffic on roadways and in cities. In addition, roadways are frequently poorly marked and maintained. Some time ago for safety reasons, the Thai government was considering a major change. Roadway driving would shift from left-hand to right- hand driving. Many people said it wouldn't change things much, because Thai people are already constantly driving on the wrong side of the road.

Caveat: This is 100% my own writing, not that it's good. I live in Canada, but spend 4 months a year in Thailand, have a plain Jane Silver Toyota Hilux Pickup in Phuket (don't we all?), and have driven around most of the country, save for the deep south. Last year I drove from Phuket to Chiang Rai, on to Pai, and back. I saw 8 car accidents and 8 dead dogs before I stopped counting, about half way from Phuket to Bangkok, LOL.

Signed,

Keep your Bloody Head on a Swivel (or it's Check) MATE

I guess I experienced an unusual month of travelling in Thailand this past January. I only saw 2 small fender benders (as we call them in Canada) in an estimated one thousand km of travelling. However, my travelling was not in major traffic centers (Surat Thani city and countryside, Ao Nang/Krabi, Hua Hin). I am aware of the Thai traffic statistics but overall, I thought drivers 'melded' together much better than in Canada. I did not see one incident of road rage. Yes, driving did look somewhat hectic by some.

In Toronto and area where I live, one is hard pressed to drive 10 or 20 km without seeing a major intersection accident. And road rage is plentiful. We do have strict rules on acquiring a license, texting while driving, speeding, seat belt enforcement, impaired driving ......... but still, our drivers produce an awful lot of accidents.

At least in the areas that I travelled (and will again for the month of May), my observation was that Thai drivers were self-governing.

Great, writing and oh so true,....!!!

My wife (Well Educated) did her driving test a couple of months ago in Cjhiang Mai, from the +/- 80 people in her class all came driving a car or motorbike...!!...And 2 guys were driving a car for 20 years....20 YEARS !!!! without a drivers licence......!!!

She could have bought the driving licence for 5000 Thb. but preferred to do the test, she had to do it twice and got her licence for a +/- 200 Thb......now I let her drive my strong 4x4 with extra strong steal bumpers with me on her side.....and she does well......!

[NangrongJ]

One thing I forgot to add, that is vital to the essence of this post - The UN/WHO record that any death within 30 days of the said incident is recorded as a RTC death. Thailand does not accept this and therefore does not record such deaths as RTC's. Thailand has also refused funding from UN/WHO as the funding required monitoring and audit (no, were not going to give you money and not check where it's being spent). I contrast, Cambodia opened its doors and came onboard two years ago, accepted the 30 day inclusion and was given half a million dollars US which it used to give motorcycle training, education and free helmets. It worked and has reduced the RTA rate in motor cycles.

[NoshowJones]

Reading through this topic, there is an average of about 80 road fatalities per day, and I think about 60 of them are motorcyclists, plus a few more who die later in hospital

which is not recorded.

How many underage motor cyclists are killed every day on average? I would bet there are not any statistics on that, but in my experience, there are not any underage M/C

riders riding in cities. but in up country towns and villages, there are many of them. I would think it is because of lazy parents sending their children to do their messages etc.

In the cities, there is plenty of transport available, and police checkpoints are very common, but up country they are almost none at all.

[englansi]

I don't find driving a major problem in Thailand. I have been riding various bikes of increasing performance for 8 years here without any significant issues. More than that, I find it a real pleasure mostly. Each time I catch myself swearing at someone here (several times a day), I remember doing exactly the same all over Europe. It's all relative. Lets face it, if you are unable to predict what is going on after driving here for a month or so, you are not really paying attention to the local conditions and mind set. Consider moving to another place or staying in bed if you don't possess the faculties to cope with the local drivers. Of course all driving related standards are low here, what has that got to do with your responsibility to yourself?

[cooked]

One more remark: most of us grew up being driven around by our parents / grandparents, listening to their 'remarks'. My own wife was riding buffalo 40 years ago and that's her driving experience summed up. Down south transport was by boat, up north often by elephant.

Safety? My neighbour cracked his head twice on a low beam cut to a triangle shape. Blood everywhere last time. Did he do a quick 5 minute job on the offending beam? Answers on a postcard please.

[giddyup]

All the accidents in Thailand are caused by colour blind falangs who obtained their licence by deceptive means!

[Gandtee]

After 28 years of driving here, I now can't see the problem.

[giddyup]

I don't find driving a major problem in Thailand. I have been riding various bikes of increasing performance for 8 years here without any significant issues. More than that, I find it a real pleasure mostly. Each time I catch myself swearing at someone here (several times a day), I remember doing exactly the same all over Europe. It's all relative. Lets face it, if you are unable to predict what is going on after driving here for a month or so, you are not really paying attention to the local conditions and mind set. Consider moving to another place or staying in bed if you don't possess the faculties to cope with the local drivers. Of course all driving related standards are low here, what has that got to do with your responsibility to yourself?

You can't anticipate everything. Motorcycles shooting out of side roads while talking on their mobiles without caring if there was traffic or not, red light runners, the list is endless.

[The Deerhunter]

Many drivers in Thailand have developed a sense of roadway entitlement, as they expect other road users to defer to them, and smaller vehicles to give way. Motorcycles sometimes don't give way, and the results are horrifyingly predictable. As so few people seem to be learning hard lessons from excessive roadway fatalities - history is repeating itself. If you are in Thailand anytime soon, you will observe that about half of the motorcycle drivers would not be wearing safety helmets. Many baskets on motorbikes would contain a helmet, however. Life is all about choices and their concomitant consequences. A high percentage of catastrophic motorcycle accidents occur in the wee hours of the morning. Excessive speeds, reckless attitudes, a lack of safety headgear and alcohol are the main fatality factors - time after time. To survive a trip to Thailand, foreign drivers should understand Thai roadway culture, drive defensively and keep their guard up 100 % of the time.

On Thai roadways there's a potential danger lurking around every corner. Those who are prone to high-risk behavior form the bulk of fatalities on roadways. This fact is borne out time and again by numerous grim fatality reports - of foreigners and Thai nationals alike.

It seems that certain officials in Thailand are paid big money to turn a blind eye to roadway safety concerns. In Thailand there's a saying, "don't interfere with someone else's rice pot." Almost every Thai official tops up their salary with their own "rice pot." As a result, roadway safety issues are left on the backburner, or left unaddressed. The result is an unacceptably high number of foreigners and Thai nationals dying on Thai roadways, the majority involving motorcycles. The problem is, no one knows how many - and if they do, they aren't talking.

It also seems that life is of little value here in Thailand. I always wonder why so many drivers seem to value their life on a very low level. Considering there's next to no social security here in Thailand - one would assume they would at least worry about their families. Without them earning money and supporting the household income, the whole family might get into serious trouble. This whole issue is quite clearly a case for proper law enforcement on traffic regulations.

Thai Driver's attitude adjustment required: "If I die on road and family suffer as a result: 1. It was pre-ordained and we could do nothing about it: 2. My family obviously did something bad in a previous incarnation (in-car-nation???) that they are being punished for in this life: 3. If I have accident and die, not matter if I wear seat belt or helmet because I die anyway. My time was up. Seat belt or helmet not save me if my death now was pre-ordained: 4 Nothing is my fault. Spirits, ghosts, witchcraft-spells & pre-ordination cause all bad things. Repeat. Nothing is may fault: 5. I am important other people must always get out of my way and I can go any speed I want as it is important that I am always first at everything." Difficult for an ignorant Farang to argue with all the above excuses for bad road behavior. Almost no one takes personal responsibility for anything in Thailand.

[Tomtomtom69]

Thailand's dangerous roads and driving styles are perhaps one reason why some neighboring countries refuse entry to Thai motorists. Vietnam and China are two such examples. Therefore, for a Thai registered vehicle to enter these countries a myriad of paperwork and a tour, consisting of a guide who travels in the car all the way and in the case of Vietnam, a police escort are required.

[cumgranosalum]

“Yet both countries have about the same number of RTCs”

Whilst I agree that the collection of stats is highly dubious anywhere and Thailand must rate as one of the worst in this field, if one follows that logic, we have to ignore all stats re motoring. I think the problem lies only partly with the stats themselves and the way they are gathered...it is also the way they are interpreted that is also severely flawed.

As according to some or one set of figures Thailand has the highest death rate per 100 k of population, the general interpretation is that driving in Thailand must be very dangerous. I don’t see this as a naturally logical progression of reason, however I do think it is a good indicator of the situation here.

When it comes to counting collisions - I have to say yet again that anecdote is not data, and I firmly believe there is an important factor there. However I know personally that for various reasons in UK, Europe and Australia, that collisions go unreported regularly - largely to avoid massive insurance bureaucracy and possible traffic/vehicle infringements. - Splitting hairs over stats is of course a complete waste of time especially with road safety, where so many, many factors are involved.

There also seems to be a preponderance of people on this and other threads who rather than seriously look into the topic of road safety like to draw erroneous and single-issue solutions based on their own untutored observations......

Some posts are simply “giving examples” this is just silly - telling anecdotes about motoring horror stories that are selected to back up a pre-held view that is at best myopic and can hardly be taken seriously - I could tell similar stories about any country in the world.

People like to blame individuals for what they perceive as bad driving, when the reality is far more complex than that and often they are applying principles that are themselves are quite outdated or ill-informed.

Many posters are also making derogatory assumptions about “how Thais think” - this is both ignorant and racist.

There are 65 million or so people in Thailand and to suggest that you know how everyone thinks is just plain daft.

Another aspect here is that people love to bandy about the word “culture” - when they are in reality just using it as a substitute for their own prejudiced view.

Culture is NOT a static thing, neither are the demographics and attitudes of drivers on Thai roads.

There is one interesting point though that is occasionally touched upon by those who really research Thai culture; check out “Very Thai” for instance. Here they allude to the cultural HISTORY of transport in Thailand and point out that unlike Europe and USA, who in general, graduated slowly from horses and carts to automobiles, Thailand has switched to automobiles vey rapidly (in no more than 2 generations) and not from horses and carts, but from BOATS. If you take time to consider many of the Thai driving ways and more and mays and mights, you’ll see they have a remarkable resemblance to how one pilots a boat on a river.

Edited March 31, 2015 by seedy
font

[cumgranosalum]

For those who aren't sure what the 5 Es are........

1. Education

This is fairly self-explanatory - people need to be told/shown how to drive and given the “tools” to share the road with other users - UK had several government TV campaigns in the 60s and 70s. Clever well thought out ads with a bit of humour that weren’t condescending and helped to establish the country as a safe place to drive. (Do you remember the elephant in the fog?).

The first people to educate in Thailand would be the police.

2. Enforcement

Again self-explanatory - but Thailand has the added problem of ingrained corruption, graft and bribery which impedes this no matter how many laws are passed. The laws need to be reasonable applicable and equitably enforced too.

3. Engineering: - most critics of (Thai) road safety usually ignore this aspect of road safety.

Vehicle engineering - Safer car design and engineering: - car safety is both “passive” (seat belts, airbags and construction etc.) and “Active” (braking steering, handling, traction control etc.) these two are really interdependent now with so much computerised and hi-tech features on modern vehicles.

· Anti-locking brakes

· Traction control

· Air-bags

· Side impact bars

· AVCSS

· More reliable engine, tyres and components

· Vehicle dynamics in general (vary from UK and Thailand)

Of course roadworthiness checks are vital - but totally unenforced in Thailand.

Road Engineering -

The design and construction on the roads, bridges, junction, road surface, camber, drainage etc.

· The use of barriers (e.g. Armco), the removal of roadside hazards - e.g. trees or boulders on the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision

· Traffic - the use of lines, signs, bollards etc. etc. to dictate how and where the traffic flows and at what speed - virtually non-excitant in Thailand and seldom noticed by drivers in countries that make good use of it.

· The use of barriers (e.g. Armco), the removal of trees from the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision.

· Better infrastructure and engineering

· Better road surfaces

· Better signage

· More forgiving

· Traffic calming

· Shared space - keeping various road users apart is key to safety in some situations - if they are separated they can’t collide.

Like so many things on the roads in Thailand, the only reason that U-Turns happen is because the roads ALLOW it.... this is an engineering problem (and cost), not so much a driver problem.

4. Emergency

- What happens in the event of injury... this is a major factor in who lives or dies.

It has been well documented that the time between accident and getting treatment is crucial in the survival of RTI victims.

Treatment on the scene and reducing the time it takes to get the patient to hospital is vital. Thailand still has NO EFECTIVE UNIVERSAL EMERGENCY SERVICE!!

5. Evaluation

- How do we ascertain if measures are effective and what new ideas can be implemented.

Most governments have agencies of some sort that after engaging any road scheme, whether it is construction or a safety campaign, review in detail every aspect of that project; effects on local population, environment, accident statistics etc. etc. Statistics are gathered and monitored and appropriate action taken. - Whereas Thailand may nominally have such bodies their effectiveness is just about zero. Road safety in Thailand is left largely to ill-thought out, baseless pronouncements made by members of the government with little better to do.

I would just like to reiterate that it is my firm opinion that unless ALL 5 Es are implemented there will be no significant improvement in road safety in Thailand.....you can't just pick and choose, they are interdependent.

[englansi]

I don't find driving a major problem in Thailand. I have been riding various bikes of increasing performance for 8 years here without any significant issues. More than that, I find it a real pleasure mostly. Each time I catch myself swearing at someone here (several times a day), I remember doing exactly the same all over Europe. It's all relative. Lets face it, if you are unable to predict what is going on after driving here for a month or so, you are not really paying attention to the local conditions and mind set. Consider moving to another place or staying in bed if you don't possess the faculties to cope with the local drivers. Of course all driving related standards are low here, what has that got to do with your responsibility to yourself?

You can't anticipate everything. Motorcycles shooting out of side roads while talking on their mobiles without caring if there was traffic or not, red light runners, the list is endless.

As you say - the list is endless. It's a case of coping, or not. I like living in Thailand, so I learn to cope with it's darker side. It is what it is. I have plenty of gripes about the local driving too, but it serves no purpose to cry about it. Everything that can be said has been said. Every official that is tasked with knowing, knows.

The alternative is to have the kind of egregious police harassment we had back home. No thanks.

Now you have made me remember the Old Bill in all their glory (sic). Spoilt my afternoon it has.

[bbbbooboo]

Stupid IS what stupid DOES ?

[Tomtomtom69]

I have written tons on this subject, but will defer to others now: Slow Thai drivers sometimes create deadly road conditions by forcing other drivers to pass them on the left. Unlike many western drivers, most Thai drivers don't strive to be considerate to others. It's part of the Thai makeup of being "klaeng jai" (reluctant to impose upon, respectful of other's privacy and space).

There's no word in English that corresponds to "klaeng jai." Thais ignore others on the road in a general attitude to avoid confrontation. It all comes down to face. Thai drivers aren't courteous drivers, simply because it never occurs to them to be courteous on the road. In Thailand, it's every driver for themselves. Judging by fatality statistics, this paradigm is fatally flawed.

In a potential driving confrontation, Thais will do their best to ignore one another. This is because there's a big risk of losing face in a confrontation. If a Thai driver loses face - there's a probability of a bloody confrontation. Thus, it's avoided as much as possible. If this means appearing inconsiderate, so be it.

In practical terms, when Thais ignore other drivers - it means they don't stop to let pedestrians cross the road in a crossing lane. They don't make it easy for another driver wanting to change lanes. To the westerner the Thai driver appears aggressive, but in reality it's often simply a lack of consideration.

Thais mainly ignore other drivers to avoid confrontation - as they focus solely on their immediate driving needs. Most Thais started out driving a motorcycle - and they didn't worry about blocking traffic or being nice to other drivers. Large trucks are frequently over- loaded to the hilt. Many trucks are underpowered; it causes large backups on two lane roadways. Most trucks stick to a maximum speed of 80 kph. Many truck drivers do pull over to the side to let vehicles pass; a quick toot of the horn lets them know their gesture was appreciated.

In Thailand, truck maintenance is generally poor. Many trucking companies pay off authorities to turn a blind eye. Run-away truck tires can pose a deadly hazard.

so often sweeping "cultural" statements are made about "Thai driving" as if they are genuine assessments of road safety -

"Slow Thai drivers sometimes create deadly road conditions by forcing other drivers to pass them on the left." - this is a good example of misinterpretation of the actual situation - it isn't actually "slow" drivers per se - that is a purely subjective assessment; what is really happening here is a dangerous speed differentiation occurring on particular roads. This is a common problem in countries with a poorly developed road/traffic system.

"most Thai drivers don't strive to be considerate to others." - this again is a cultural assessment of what is going on....many foreign drivers actually don't understand the rules of priority in Thailand and how they operate.

"Thais mainly ignore other drivers to avoid confrontation" - again just using a catchphrase to explain away a lack of real understanding of what is happening. In general this poster is complaining because Thai roads don't operate how he/she feels they should - i.e. in the same way as back home.

again with trucks - I think this poster is relying solely on personal, anecdotal observation tand hoping to apply this as a scientific point....its not - its anecdote and the plural of anecdote is not data.

One real problem with commercial traffic is again the huge differentiation between vehicles used - from the latest semis to the ancient and rudimentary 6 wheelers - the "hoc lors".

Anyone who has driven around Thailand will see the huge number of vehicle checking stations - but their effectiveness is compromised; this again underlines one all pervading problem of Thai sociey and therefore road safety - that of institutionalised bribery, corruption incompetence and inconsistency of enforcement.

one might also ask ewhy one doesn't see many foreign trucks plying the roads of Thailand - especially Laos or Malaysian vehicles......

Good question about the Lao and Malaysian trucks...Lao ones I've only ever seen in Isarn. The furthest from the border was three Lao registered "American style" trucks just north of Nakorn Ratchasima I saw last year. Lao fuel tankers I've seen travelling between Mukdaharn and Kalasin.

But not once have I ever seen a Lao truck in Bangkok or vicinity. And yet I've seen Thai trucks driving throughout all parts of Laos, even near the Vietnamese and Chinese borders. Of course they aren't allowed to cross those borders so they unload at the border.

Lao private vehicles, yes, many times as they are allowed to travel throughout the country and in fact, I've driven Lao registered vehicles to Bangkok, Mae Sot, Chiang Mai, Isarn and other parts of Thailand a number of times. Yesterday in fact I also saw a Lao registered Lexus near Muang Thong Thani, and Malaysian cars are often seen driving throughout Thailand too, but Malaysian trucks? Probably they're only allowed near the border, say near Hat Yai.

Because if they were allowed elsewhere, I would have seen them by now. You do see Lao and Cambodian buses in Bangkok, that's because they ply the Bangkok (Mo Chit) - Siem Reap/Phnom Penh routes (for Cambodia) and the Bangkok (Mo Chit) - Vientiane/Pakse routes (for Laos). I've even seen buses supposed to be plying routes such as Luang Prabang-Loei come to Bangkok, not sure why but maybe for servicing?

[Tomtomtom69]

Given that the majority of deaths are bike riders, this is where is should all start. Strict enforcement of wearing proper helmets, strict licencing procedures, strict enforcement of all road rules. For whatever reason, police are simply not all that bothered, unless they can scam a few baht. It seems police only enforce laws at particular check points. I've never seen a policeman of the street randomly book someone who didn't have a helmet. At least 50% of the riders in Nonthaburi don't seem to wear helmets, and that figure is much higher in coutry areas. I guess bike riders are poor so noone really cares. If hi-so benz drivers were being killed in their hundreds, something would be done about it.

"hi-so benz drivers were being killed in their hundreds, something would be done about it."

Doubt it. This is Thailand. Nobody cares who dies, it's just another day and they'll all put it down to fate. Doesn't matter who you are or under what circumstances you lose your life on Thai roads. It won't make a difference. Nobody cares, nobody wants to change things.

Or perhaps only in baby steps. Nowadays I see some very minor steps being taken in the right direction, but they are far from being sufficient.

Road blocks asking to see licences, roadside breath testing, mainly late at night, sometimes you even get stopped 3 times within 30 minutes! These kinds of things. But it's not enough.

[seedy]

One foreign language post removed

[seedy]

Please post in the same font as used by everyone else.

Forum Netiquette
1. Please do not post in all capital letters, bold, unusual fonts, sizes or colors. It can be
difficult to read.

[SunsetT]

Good roads and bad drivers are a deadly combination. Good roads mean one can drive faster. Thailand would be safer if the roads were not so good. Thais have cars but are not taught to drive them, just as Thais have brains but are not taught to use them; i.e., not taught to think.

It all comes down to lack of eduction.

[ThaiRich]

It's not the roads that are dangerous, it's the people driving on the roads that are dangerous.

[cumgranosalum]

Good roads and bad drivers are a deadly combination. Good roads mean one can drive faster. Thailand would be safer if the roads were not so good. Thais have cars but are not taught to drive them, just as Thais have brains but are not taught to use them; i.e., not taught to think.

It all comes down to lack of eduction.

this is a typically completely inaccurate assessment of what is happening. again someone who thinks there is a single issue solution.

[cumgranosalum]

It's not the roads that are dangerous, it's the people driving on the roads that are dangerous.

absolute tripe! This poster too has no idea of what road safety entails and how it relates to driving in Thailand.

I will make an observation here though.....isn't it worth considering that the more you feel the need to shout at or criticise other drivers, the more you really need to look at your own performance behind the wheel?

[Wat dee]

Thai authorities play with fatality statistics. They don't count people who die in the ambulance or the hospital, only the ones who actually die on the road - so if you count properly, Thailand would be number one in the world for road fatalities, if they used WHO standards.

and that's the truth

American Doctor told me this same "system" was used with American KIA's during Desert Storm.He was stationed in Landstuhl, Germany.

[nithisa78]

Mostly first generation drivers. Ex pats that don't know their ear from a hole in the ground. The me, me crowd. What can I find fault with in the world today. Not what can I do to help. How may I say, thank you. Stop now, having lost ability to be polite to the non thinking public.

[cumgranosalum]

Thai authorities play with fatality statistics. They don't count people who die in the ambulance or the hospital, only the ones who actually die on the road - so if you count properly, Thailand would be number one in the world for road fatalities, if they used WHO standards.

and that's the truth

American Doctor told me this same "system" was used with American KIA's during Desert Storm.He was stationed in Landstuhl, Germany.

Except it's not the whole truth......stats are gathered differently in many countries - but of course that does not necessarily lead to gross misrepresentation as most statisticians are aware of the varying methods used to gather the stats.

the "criteria" for a death in a road accident in Uk is dependant on how long after they die. there are also rules concerning where the vehicle is - i.e. still on a highway or in a field ( if it hits a tree in a field, is that a stat too?)

Too imply that Thailand is poor at gathering stats could be credible, but there needs to be backup....to suggest that the stats are worthless in quite another thing.\

...and yes you are quite right in assuming that ALL countries can massage statistics.

Edited March 31, 2015 by cumgranosalum