Was Immigration Officer correct re Double Entry Tourist visa problem?

[soblue2001]

I obtained a Double entry Tourist visa from Laos, issued 13 Jan 2015.

I entered Thailand the next day, 14 Jan, giving me 60 days.until the 14 march.

On the 13 March I went to CM immigration to buy a further 30 days until the 13 April.

So on the 13 April I went to Myanmar to leave Thailand and return, thereby activating the second 60 days.

However the Imm Officer gave me 30 days.

I pointed out his 'mistake'..............not so he said.

On my visa sticker in my passport there is a category entitled 'Enter before'.

It's dated 12 April 2015.

I'd always thought this the day I had to do my initial entry, but he said my visa was finished already, and instead gave me only 30 days.

Can anyone confirm he is indeed correct?

[wayned]

All entries have to be made on/before the enter before date on the visa. The immigration officer was correct!

[soblue2001]

I thought I was pretty clued up on these things too.

He did say if I'd come on the 12th he'd have given 60 days.

For me this is a little known thing.

Thanks for clarification.

[beechguy]

Yes, he was correct, discussed here pretty much on a daily basis. Unfortunately people don't pay attention until too late.

[csabo]

Yes, he was correct, discussed here pretty much on a daily basis. Unfortunately people don't pay attention until too late.

Amazing how these things never sink in. The information is all here for the reading.

[Liquorice]

Yes, you must make your second entry before or on the 'enter before date' or your Visa will expire.

[BudRight]

It's still a stupid rule. A stupid thing that is easily knowable does not become less stupid.

Edited April 14, 2015 by BudRight

[ubonjoe]

It's still a stupid rule. A stupid thing that is easily knowable does not become less stupid.

Why is it a stupid rule?

I don't think any visa issued would be good for infinity for entry to any country. They all have to expire at some time.

[Suradit69]

It's still a stupid rule. A stupid thing that is easily knowable does not become less stupid.

In what way is it stupid? You get a visa that has a limited life, just as do visas issued by every country in the world, and when it's expired it can no longer be used. He's still got a 30 day entry extendable by another 30 days.

In most cases involving visa entries, you have to check the date by which the visa must be used and the date your permission to stay ends. Not rocket science and if you're unsure about the implications, ask (or do a search) on TV or ask at immigrations. There may at times be language issues (at either source) but most of the straight-forward & basic issues produce pretty straight-forward answers.

If you buy medicine with a use by date, do you think that applies only to the first tablet or capsule and that the rest can be taken whenever you feel like it?

Edited April 14, 2015 by Suradit69

[IMA_FARANG]

Yes, you must make your second entry before or on the 'enter before date' or your Visa will expire.

--------------------------

To b clear rather a double entry or triple entry tourist visa requires you to do ALL entries before that "must enter before" date/

That means if you have a triple entry visa you need to do your third entry before that date expires also.

[tropo]

It's still a stupid rule. A stupid thing that is easily knowable does not become less stupid.

I've never considered this rule "stupid". Obviously visas need to have expiry dates.

The OP confused his entry stamp date with the Visa expiry date. If he'd entered Thailand on the day he got his visa he would have just made it in time (2nd entry).

[jagfx]

Probably not so much a stupid rule but it could be handled much better by embassy/consular staff. If you were to obtain a double entry tourist visa for example, why don't they at least cut you a bit of slack with regards to your final entry by date. For example I obtained mine in Brisbane on 20th Jan 2015 and flew to Thailand on the 5th Feb. My 'enter before' date is 16th July (approx 6 mths). All good for me as I had my 30 day extension on my 1st entry until 5th May, where I am actually heading over to Saigon prior to this date, returning to Thailand on the 7th May, which is obviously well before the 'enter before' date of 16th July. I'll then be able to stay another three months with the extension.

The problem seems to be a couple of things. One is people get their visa issued well in advance before they actually travel believing that it is not activated until you arrive in Thailand. I guess technically this is true, but you are eating into your 'enter before' date. This is probably where the 2nd part of the problem lies, is that different overseas embassies/consulate offices issue applicants with a different number of months for their 'enter before' date. Brisbane was good, giving most a full 6 months to complete this, but I have read other places keeping it down to three months from time of visa issue. This basically means you would have to jump on a plane that same day in an effort to get max time allowable on your visa.

I think it would make much more sense that if at the date of issue, they nominate a date for your first entry. For example, you have one month to get yourself to Thailand, and if you don't, the visa expires. When in country you are bound to obey the rules of the visa, where you would either leave prior to the 60 days, where on your departure, Immigration could give you another date eg, one month, by which you would have to activate your 2nd entry. The same would apply if you obtained the 30 day extension as on your eventual departure, again you could be given a new 'enter before' date for your subsequent entry. This way there would be less confusion and Thai authorities would still be controlling the movement of tourists as everything is clearly recorded in the passport. Maybe I'm missing something, but the way it is at the moment is just a tad confusing, which is obvious by the comments above that it has been discussed many times on this forum. If it was clear, then it wouldn't be a problem. It is alright for the old hands who have grasped the whole Thai visa system, which is a clear as mud sometimes, but for the newbies it can be a bit daunting where mistakes can easily be made. Cheers.

[meltingpot2015]

Agree with post #12. It can be quite confusing for someone not clued-up on the rules and procedures in Thailand.

You kinda feel for the OP because he was going by the expiry date on the extension by CM Immigration, when he should have also checked the enter by date.

There is a related post here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/187149-how-long-can-i-stay-in-thailand-after-my-tourist-visa-expires/#entry1963904

Make sure you do your final border run the day before your Visa expires. Check the date. If you wait until your 2nd 30 day extension finishes you may be too late.

So in the OP's situation its not worth doing the border/visa run on the day of the expiry as the quote from the link above quite correctly advises.

On a related note, I am still confused as to how come his enter before stamp is 12 April 2015 (so it actually means the OP needs to enter on or before 11 April...is that correct??). Visa was issued on the 13 Jan 2015, so shouldn't it be: enter before 14 April 2015.

The use of "until", "within", "by", "before" (I am guessing "before" means before 12 midnight on the night of 11 April) are so much riddled with confusion.(Does it include that date or does it mean before that date etc.)

Please see:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g293915-i3686-k6120246-Thai_Visa_expiry-Thailand.html

Its about time we put a stop to the confusion.

Edited April 14, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[nzexpat]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Agree with post #12. It can be quite confusing for someone not clued-up on the rules and procedures in Thailand.

You kinda feel for the OP because he was going by the expiry date on the extension by CM Immigration, when he should have also checked the enter by date.

There is a related post here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/187149-how-long-can-i-stay-in-thailand-after-my-tourist-visa-expires/#entry1963904

Make sure you do your final border run the day before your Visa expires. Check the date. If you wait until your 2nd 30 day extension finishes you may be too late.

So in the OP's situation its not worth doing the border/visa run on the day of the expiry as the quote from the link above quite correctly advises.

On a related note, I am still confused as to how come his enter before stamp is 12 April 2015 (so it actually means the OP needs to enter on or before 11 April...is that correct??). Visa was issued on the 13 Jan 2015, so shouldn't it be: enter before 14 April 2015.

The use of "until", "within", "by", "before" (I am guessing "before" means before 12 midnight on the night of 11 April) are so much riddled with confusion.(Does it include that date or does it mean before that date etc.)

Please see:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g293915-i3686-k6120246-Thai_Visa_expiry-Thailand.html

Its about time we put a stop to the confusion.

"Confusion" is usually self created.

There is no country in the world that I am aware of that issues tourist visas which are not date/time restricted.

[meltingpot2015]

It's still a stupid rule. A stupid thing that is easily knowable does not become less stupid.

I've never considered this rule "stupid". Obviously visas need to have expiry dates.

The OP confused his entry stamp date with the Visa expiry date. If he'd entered Thailand on the day he got his visa he would have just made it in time (2nd entry).

Assuming he goes to CM (CHang Mai??) Immigration on the 12 March 2015, but then why would he?. 14 March 2015 was a saturday, 13 March 2015 was a Friday. Immigration Dept is open on Friday.

[paz]

Assuming he goes to CM (CHang Mai??) Immigration on the 12 March 2015, but then why would he?. 14 March 2015 was a saturday, 13 March 2015 was a Friday. Immigration Dept is open on Friday.

OP needed to leave country and re-enter, not go to immigration. Borders are open 365 days a year.

[moe666]

The OPs other problem was extending and leaving re-entering to close to the expiration dates. When you get an extension it doesn't start untill the full 60 days is used. If he had made his border run a few days earlier he would have gottenthe full 60 days.

[meltingpot2015]

Assuming he goes to CM (CHang Mai??) Immigration on the 12 March 2015, but then why would he?. 14 March 2015 was a saturday, 13 March 2015 was a Friday. Immigration Dept is open on Friday.

OP needed to leave country and re-enter, not go to immigration. Borders are open 365 days a year.

Then he would not be receiving the maximum 180-days offered on a double-entry Tourist visa. He would be "missing" the 30 days offered by the extension (by visiting Immigration). 180 - 30 = 150 days. I have seen many posts on here advising to go for the double-entry tourist visa, because it offers 180 days.

Borders are open 365 days a year.

This is NEW in this thread.

[beechguy]

Agree with post #12. It can be quite confusing for someone not clued-up on the rules and procedures in Thailand.

You kinda feel for the OP because he was going by the expiry date on the extension by CM Immigration, when he should have also checked the enter by date.

There is a related post here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/187149-how-long-can-i-stay-in-thailand-after-my-tourist-visa-expires/#entry1963904

Make sure you do your final border run the day before your Visa expires. Check the date. If you wait until your 2nd 30 day extension finishes you may be too late.

So in the OP's situation its not worth doing the border/visa run on the day of the expiry as the quote from the link above quite correctly advises.

On a related note, I am still confused as to how come his enter before stamp is 12 April 2015 (so it actually means the OP needs to enter on or before 11 April...is that correct??). Visa was issued on the 13 Jan 2015, so shouldn't it be: enter before 14 April 2015.

The use of "until", "within", "by", "before" (I am guessing "before" means before 12 midnight on the night of 11 April) are so much riddled with confusion.(Does it include that date or does it mean before that date etc.)

Please see:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g293915-i3686-k6120246-Thai_Visa_expiry-Thailand.html

Its about time we put a stop to the confusion.

There is no confusion, for those that can be bothered to pay attention and look at the stamps in their passport. As I said, this is discussed on a regular basis.

[meltingpot2015]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Agree with post #12. It can be quite confusing for someone not clued-up on the rules and procedures in Thailand.

You kinda feel for the OP because he was going by the expiry date on the extension by CM Immigration, when he should have also checked the enter by date.

There is a related post here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/187149-how-long-can-i-stay-in-thailand-after-my-tourist-visa-expires/#entry1963904

Make sure you do your final border run the day before your Visa expires. Check the date. If you wait until your 2nd 30 day extension finishes you may be too late.

So in the OP's situation its not worth doing the border/visa run on the day of the expiry as the quote from the link above quite correctly advises.

On a related note, I am still confused as to how come his enter before stamp is 12 April 2015 (so it actually means the OP needs to enter on or before 11 April...is that correct??). Visa was issued on the 13 Jan 2015, so shouldn't it be: enter before 14 April 2015.

The use of "until", "within", "by", "before" (I am guessing "before" means before 12 midnight on the night of 11 April) are so much riddled with confusion.(Does it include that date or does it mean before that date etc.)

Please see:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g293915-i3686-k6120246-Thai_Visa_expiry-Thailand.html

Its about time we put a stop to the confusion.

"Confusion" is usually self created.

There is no country in the world that I am aware of that issues tourist visas which are not date/time restricted.

I am actually talking about improving the wording, not about prevailing countries that offer non-restricted tourist visa's.

[DP25]

It's still a stupid rule. A stupid thing that is easily knowable does not become less stupid.

Why is it a stupid rule?

I don't think any visa issued would be good for infinity for entry to any country. They all have to expire at some time.

'Some time' doesn't mean the visa must expire exactly 90 days after its issued. They could add a few days so that so that this type of situation isn't so common.

[beechguy]

It's still a stupid rule. A stupid thing that is easily knowable does not become less stupid.

Why is it a stupid rule?

I don't think any visa issued would be good for infinity for entry to any country. They all have to expire at some time.

'Some time' doesn't mean the visa must expire exactly 90 days after its issued. They could add a few days so that so that this type of situation isn't so common.

That, or for the person that is too stupid to read and comprehend, should just stay home in their nanny state.

[paz]

Then he would not be receiving the maximum 180-days offered on a double-entry Tourist visa. He would be "missing" the 30 days offered by the extension (by visiting Immigration). 180 - 30 = 150 days. I have seen many posts on here advising to go for the double-entry tourist visa, because it offers 180 days.

Just read the thread again to understand what happened. Plot spoiler:

On the 13 March I went to CM immigration to buy a further 30 days until the 13 April.

Borders are open 365 days a year.

This is NEW in this thread.

Uh ?

[BritTim]

It's still a stupid rule. A stupid thing that is easily knowable does not become less stupid.

Why is it a stupid rule?

I don't think any visa issued would be good for infinity for entry to any country. They all have to expire at some time.

'Some time' doesn't mean the visa must expire exactly 90 days after its issued. They could add a few days so that so that this type of situation isn't so common.

What seems logical to people wanting to stay for long periods in Thailand on tourist visas may not be logical to the consulates issuing them. I think the original intent of tourist visas was for tourists, who might well want to break their visit to go to, say, Angkor or Luang Prabang, and therefore need multiple entries, but would not normally wish to spend half a year here. Those getting tourist visas from their home countries will often wish to apply well in advance. It makes sense that the enter before date takes account of the possible delay before the holiday starts, even possible rescheduling. If receiving a visa in the region, it is logical:

• To assume that the first entry will be made nearly immediately.
• That the holiday will be of normal duration.

I think if you are willing to show a confirmed travel itinerary that requires a different enter before date, most consulates will be willing to accommodate you.

Further, the idea of extensions of temporary stay is for people whose travel plans change (for whatever reason) and need a few extra days in the country for that reason. Using a regular double entry tourist visa as a way to live in Thailand for 180 days is against the spirit of them.

I am not criticizing those who stretch the validity of tourist visas, visa exempt entries and extensions to their limit, but they need to be extra careful when they do that they are not stretching the validity past its breaking point.

[meltingpot2015]

Got one member (who often advises on these forums) saying, no, its not confusing. that's like a learner driver saying to Lewis Hamilton, driving is confusing and Lewis Hamilton saying "no, its not. Its only you!. You are making it confusing".

Then there is another asking me to read the OP and making personal attacks, when no one bothered to even understand why the OP made the trip to Immigration on the 13 March 2015.

It's all getting a bit silly folks. I think I owe you a two finger salute on this one. Unfollow from thread, unfollow from the rudeness and sillyness.

There's been a lot of swerving going on here. No one has (and probably will) be able to answer my question: Why wasnt the OP's enter before date 14 April 2015. His visa was issued on the 13 January 2015. See post #13 if anyone missed the question too busy telling others to read the OP's post.

Edited April 14, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[paz]

Then there is another asking me to read the OP and making personal attacks, when no one bothered to even understand why the OP made the trip to Immigration on the 13 March 2015.

It's all getting a bit silly folks. I think I owe you a two finger salute on this one. Unfollow from thread, unfollow from the rudeness and sillyness.

There's been a lot of swerving going on here. No one has (and probably will) be able to answer my question: Why wasnt the OP's enter before date 14 April 2015. His visa was issued on the 13 January 2015. See post #13 if anyone missed the question too busy telling others to read the OP's post.

There were no personal attacks here. You are the on swerving and twisting this, insisting with your failure to count days. And, as explained above already, it immaterial for the purpose of using a 2nd entry on which days the OP went to immigration to get his extension.

Now, a visa issued 13 Jan 2015 has the correct "enter before" date as 12 April 2015, that is after 90 days including issuing and end date.

http://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?d1=13&m1=1&y1=2015&d2=12&m2=4&y2=2015&ti=on

[gilo]

I just checked my own and with an issue date of 25th March and enter before date 24 June using the above and including entry and issuing date is 92 days so perhaps some consulates do provide that extra allowance. This was from Vientiane.

Edited April 14, 2015 by gilo

[paz]

I just checked my own and with an issue date of 25th March and enter before date 24 June using the above and including entry and issuing date is 92 days so perhaps some consulates do provide that extra allowance. This was from Vientiane.

In your case they gave you 3 months validity, in OP case 90 days. There is no published rule so they can do as they please, some do issue for 6 months. What is important is to be careful with the date.

[soblue2001]

There are some antagonistic folk here.

I asked a simple question.

Thanks for those who helped to answer my simple query.

As for the rest of you..........................

[nickmanchester2]

yep, i have been caught out like this... dont worry, you wont make the same mistake again