Steak medium rare coming usually as rare in Thailand

[Jingthing]

I don't eat steak out very often but I when I do I want it medium rare.

Not rare.

Not medium,

But what I've found is that when I order medium rare and have confirmed the waiter heard me, it comes as definitely rare.

Usually I don't complain as I'd rather too rare than overcooked but I do have concerns about food safety eating raw beef.

I think once I ordered medium hoping to get medium rare and predictably it was cooked more than medium.

One time I did complain on the medium rare being raw and returned it. Predictably it came back overcooked.

As I don't eat steak out that often, I am wondering if this is just a coincidence or is this something a lot of people experience in Thailand.

Also what do you think is happening in the kitchen?

My guess is that medium rare is communicated to the kitchen as RARE.

It's interesting that never have I ordered medium rare here and gotten MEDIUM.

Anyway, this isn't a huge issue for me as I don't eat steak very often, but I probably eat it even less because of this issue.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Jingthing

[Costas2008]

I thought you are an easy going guy.

Seems to be, you are a difficult one.........(nayak)

Also amazes me that you expect the Thais to understand about Medium or Rare and most of it Medium rare.

Don't know what restaurants you are eating in, but the ones I eat in, up here, when I order steak, I get a dry piece of beef that can't even chew.

Anyway, when I come to Pattaya, you have to introduce me to some restaurants.

[Jingthing]

I only order steak at places that cater to westerners. Everyone is speaking English. It's not about the language. They heard me.

Sometimes the ordering options for cooking are spelled out on the menu in ENGLISH ... including of course MEDIUM RARE which is in my opinion the most favored way for westerners to cook beef steaks by chefs and customers alike.

Doesn't seem to make any difference in the results when presented.

Anyway ...

what I really want to know is whether I have just been unlucky having this problem or is this a pattern others have noticed (and I guess I should add this is mostly about places catering to westerners)?

Edited April 21, 2015 by Jingthing

[RichCor]

They can't judge what it looks like on the inside from the outside, nor do they know the timed method.

Probably easiest to teach them to use the touch/squeeze measure method, similar to what is found here:

How to tell when a steak is done?

Scott Thomas | Grillin' Fools

* May not work at all with Thai sa dtek neuua wuaa

[thrilled]

I know in the U.S. For some time now you ask for medium it comes medium rare.I guess I need to start asking medium well to

Get it medium. Use to be medium was pink. Now medium is red.

[tifino]

I use the words "just stopped bleeding",which seemed to work

otherwise - go Soy Steak

[Baerboxer]

I guess places are different. In Europe I eat steak rare, (Bleu in France). Here I like it cooked a little more as I worry about the safety more. So I go for medium rare. Fine in the Western type steak houses or even the Chockchai places (fantastic btw).

We often eat at a Thai franchise place, outside but with a good menu selection, even fish and chips. I always have a T-Bone. Brilliant at Saimai, average at Rangsit.

Just checked with "her indoor" and she says she always orders medium for me but then tells them not too well done . She orders well done which comes as medium!

Guess I've been lucky up to now as only very few have been over cooked. And I eat steak regularly.

[gamini]

I think your definition of a rare steak might be different from others, especially if you are from the UK New Zealand or Australia. Where most steaks are overcooked. (On my honeymoon to New Zealand I took my wife to a nice looking steak restaurant and asked for a rare steak. The waiter told me that they had no such thing that they cook them all the same way ! Even in the Dorchester Hotel in Park Lane London I ordered a rare steak and I had to send it back three times before they got it right}
. In Thailand I think it is the past influence of these countries that have an effect on the Thai cooking of steaks.
In your post you say you get a rare steak when you order medium rare. For me it is the other way around. When I order a rare steak I always get a medium rare.. So obviously you and I have a very different idea what constitutes a rare steak. I like my steak very very rare almost raw. My favourite is dish steak tartar but I cannot get it in Thailand nor would I eat it here because the meat has to be very very fresh. So what it boils down to I can never get my steak cooked how I like it in Thailand because I'm used to French cooking.

[Jip99]

Jingthing, try living in Isaan.....

Anything the pink side of burnt is "mai sook"

I have asked for medium in a (Thai) steak restaurant in Buriram and you could have re-soled your shoes with it..... that was after waiting 55 minutes for it to arrive.

When it arrived I got the missus to order a medium rare and it (eventually) came out exactly as overdone as the first steak.

[Suradit69]

I thought you are an easy going guy.

Seems to be, you are a difficult one.........(nayak)

Also amazes me that you expect the Thais to understand about Medium or Rare and most of it Medium rare.

Don't know what restaurants you are eating in, but the ones I eat in, up here, when I order steak, I get a dry piece of beef that can't even chew.

Anyway, when I come to Pattaya, you have to introduce me to some restaurants.

" I get a dry piece of beef that can't even chew."

If the it can still chew that would be done extremely rare ... still breathing even.

[Jingthing]

Here you go:

These pictures are very close to what I think too.

Again, ordering medium rare I usually get either rare or sometimes even "blue rare" which I never heard of before, but there it is.

[yankee99]

If its taste between med rare and rare i understand. If you think one is safer then the other then you might be disappointed. I believe 160f kills most bacteria but in beef they call for a 145f. 145f would most likely give a med rare steak but its borderline to kill anything that gonna make you sick.

More important would be the handling of the food and protecting it from cross contamination.

[wayned]

The last steak that I ordered in Thailand, Samui, many years ago I ordered it rare! When it came it was well done. I called the manager over, Thai, and explained that I had ordered it rare so he took it back. I assume that he would bring me a new one freshly cooked but he brought the same one back about 5 minutes later now burnt to a crisp.

[slipperylobster]

I know in the U.S. For some time now you ask for medium it comes medium rare.I guess I need to start asking medium well to

Get it medium. Use to be medium was pink. Now medium is red.

I can handle pink...nothing less cooked.

My problem with red is that the blood gets all over the plate and into the mashed potatoes.

Cannot handle blood on the plate.

[canuckamuck]

I used to cook steaks at a pizza shop (just after high school). I had a very consistent method of grilling and our meat supply was consistent. So there was generally no doubt in my mind as to the degree the steaks were cooked. I was always amazed when steaks were returned for being undercooked. Because you could clearly see that they were done right (manager would agree with me). The problem always was the people's perception of medium rare and medium was completely variable (no one ever complained about rare, medium well or well done BTW). We would sometimes need to cook steaks all the way to well done to satisfy people who were asking for medium rare.

In fact it is very tempting to over cook steaks because when people see how much red is in a proper medium rare, they think it is undercooked. So I am confused as to how Jingthing is having the opposite experience, but this is Thailand and I am used to being confused. I don't order steaks here. I come from cattle country and I have no expectation of having a good steak here at a reasonable price.

[meatboy]

The last steak that I ordered in Thailand, Samui, many years ago I ordered it rare! When it came it was well done. I called the manager over, Thai, and explained that I had ordered it rare so he took it back. I assume that he would bring me a new one freshly cooked but he brought the same one back about 5 minutes later now burnt to a crisp.

the same happened to me and mrs.meat but ours was frozen in the middle,as the wife was a catering supervisor in the uk.with all the hygeine certificates she called the manager and he said [thai excuse] a new starter,but what alarmed us was meat was cooked from frozen in a microwave.

that was the last time i ate out 2011.

oh yes they did cook it a second time UNEATABLE.

[Jingthing]

Thanks for all the feedback.

It appears my experience as it has been so limited may not be any kind of national Thailand pattern (at places catering to westerners).

I think in my case as I seem to usually get it served too rare or even way too rare, that I might just order MEDIUM in future and see how what pattern I notice with that.

[Water Buffalo]

Sizzler's can cook a steak medium rare.

I have a lot of trouble getting a fried egg that isn't half raw. And when you ask them to cook it more, it comes back the way my grandparent would have cooked it: unrecognizable and crunchy. But they are still afraid of salmonella, or something.

[Jingthing]

I like runny fried eggs and ask for them. Not s fan of Sizzlers but good to know.

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[xylophone]

Thanks for all the feedback.

It appears my experience as it has been so limited may not be any kind of national Thailand pattern (at places catering to westerners).

I think in my case as I seem to usually get it served too rare or even way too rare, that I might just order MEDIUM in future and see how what pattern I notice with that.

I used to order medium rare here but was closer to rare with much blood!

Now I order medium and it seems to do the trick as it would rate just on the medium side of medium rare, if you see what I mean, and that I can handle.

[Mrjlh]

Cooking streak is just not a Thais strong point. First off they cut the meat too thin. That makes it harder to judge how well the meat is being cooked inside.Secondly, the butchers here really do not know how to slice meat in order to give you the best cuts. It's an art and one they do not posses.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Mrjlh

[Water Buffalo]

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I like runny fried eggs and ask for them. Not s fan of Sizzlers but good to know.

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But surely the white should be fully cooked right? I have no problem with a runny yolk, but when the white is still a clear mucus on top ......ewwww

[canman]

Here you go:

doneness_chart2.jpg

These pictures are very close to what I think too.

Again, ordering medium rare I usually get either rare or sometimes even "blue rare" which I never heard of before, but there it is.

Those pics are accurate to my interpretation. Notice the thickness of the cut. My experience in Thailand was that the meat was usually cut far to thin which makes it much more difficult to cook to the requested temperature.

IMHO, if there is not some blood on the plate after cutting through a steak then it has been over cooked.

Edited April 22, 2015 by canman

[Jingthing]

Coicidentally, I just saw on a very credible BBC doc that said rare steak, the same portion, is effectively LOWER CALORIE than well cooked steak. The reason is that our digestive systems need to work a lot harder (burning more calories) to digest the rare meat. The well cooked meat on the other hand is ready to be digested easily. Pretty cool factoid and perhaps another reason more than the culinary to consider more rare steak as preferable.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Jingthing

[NiwPix]

I've worked in a steakhouse for many years in the US and learned it is better to send a steak to the customer slightly under-done than over done. If it's over-done and gets sent back, it's waste.

If it is under-done and sent back you can still throw it on the grill a few minutes. It happened several times that steaks get sent back because the ordered temperature wasn't correct. Upon inspecting the steak in the kitchen, it was perfectly done. We learned that the lighting played a major role in the decision if the steak was done correct or not. The dining area was dim lit ( correct english? lighty lit? ) with soft yellow light, but the kitchen was well lit with bright lights. Try explaining that to the customer when he sends his steak back...

Also, sometimes customers did not know their temperatures, but, sometimes we had it wrong too.

There are many different factors that involve the getting the steak temperature right...even an experienced cook/chef can get it wrong on occasion.

As for foreign owned restaurants getting the steaks wrong, I can't speak for all of them, but in my case it COULD happen, though I obviously try to avoid it....A foreigner/owner won't be in the kitchen the entire time the restaurant is open...so at times the -hopefully- trained Thai cook takes it upon themselves to grill a steak. A normal restaurant that has a steak or two on the menu won't get ordered as much, so the Thai cook doesn't have much experience with various temperatures and just guess when it's ready....or just grill it until it looks and feels like the sole of a shoe.

I would try to order the steak one notch less than you like and if it is under done ask the server / cook to throw it on the grill another 2 or 3 minutes....or however long you think it needs to reach your desired temperature. Not a great solution, but best I can come up with in / for Thailand.

[tifino]

you may have already heard that Steak is about the only meat that you can take straight from the deep freezer, and cook immediately without pre-thawing...

anyhows - you have now.

It certainly makes it easier to obtain the pink inner, especiallyif you are not so good at determining your elapsed cooking times

just don't try the same (non-defrosting) with pig, fish or bird

[xylophone]

Quote "tifino": "just don't try the same (non-defrosting) with pig, fish or bird".

On that subject, I have been quite surprised here when I have been asked how I would like my pork fillet cooked and asked if I liked it rare?? In one restaurant I ordered a dish of pork with a cream and peppercorn sauce and was extremely surprised to find that the pork was cooked on the outside and was raw on the inside, and they said that's how they serve the dish??

I was always told that pork had to be cooked quite thoroughly and if not there was the potential for food poisoning – – any experienced chefs care to comment (don't mean to go too far away from the main topic).

[Jingthing]

Yeah raw pork is scary.

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[RichCor]

you may have already heard that Steak is about the only meat that you can take straight from the deep freezer, and cook immediately without pre-thawing...

anyhows - you have now.

It certainly makes it easier to obtain the pink inner, especiallyif you are not so good at determining your elapsed cooking times

just don't try the same (non-defrosting) with pig, fish or bird

By "steak" maybe you mean beefsteak,

People worldwide usually accept "steak" as referring to any perpendicular cut of muscle from a grazing animals, usually farmed, to include cattle, bison, camel, goat, horse, kangaroo, sheep, ostrich, pigs, reindeer, turkey and deer, as well as various types of fish, especially salmon [...or so say Wikipedia]

Though, if I want a Steak I want a Beef Steak. Thick, tender juicy, slightly marbled. Don't try to pass off 'Chicken' as a "steak". And get that bottled "steaksauce" away from me, you freaks.

[slipperylobster]

One bar/restaurant place at Imperial Beach, San Diego, had broken the code on how to cook a steak

Every Monday, they would have thawed out sirloin steaks...each presented on butcher paper.

You simply go in, pay 7 usd, pickup your steak and toss it on a large BBQ. All the seasonings were handy, as well. People would order beer and chat with each other at the indoor BBQ. Cooking times and tips were put on the wall.

It was very nice, going there and grilling them up just as you like them. There was also a salad bar, roll and french fries included in the price. Nobody complained how the steaks turned out, as there was no chef to blame.

There was another place in Waikiki that did the same, but you had many choices of meats and seafood.

I wonder if anybody thought of opening a similar operation? I would enjoy having a place like that in CM.