Turn The Tourists Away

[Saan]

It's called 'hard love'. But in the end it might be the only way to save Chiang Mai.

Tourists should be warned against coming to Chiang Mai during the first half of the year. Expats could write to the travel section of their home newspapers saying don't come to Chiang Mai unless you want to wear a mask.

Maybe Chinese tourists should be told to save their money and visit Beijing instead if they want to see smog.

As more and more rai are turned to corn production the burning off season is extending and choking Chiang Mai more and more.

Big business is involved in these vast corn plantations, growing feed for pigs and chickens for food processors. That means that big money is involved and big money means that the environment runs a poor last.

But money does talk both ways and if the tourist dollar dwindles away the will might be found to actually do more about air quality than sprinkling water into the air.

[JingerBen]

Excellent post.

Only tactics like this are going to solve the problem.

[eyecatcher]

OP the problem with your idea is you are applying (quite rightly) something called logic.

And sadly until logic becomes part of the culture Thailand will never move foreward.

[beau thai]

'the first half of the year' to be avoided??

Maybe I am lucky not to suffer breathing problems normally but it seems to me that the really high PM problems were only about 4 weeks. Very unpleasant for that time, but not a problem for 26 weeks for most, surely??

Maybe I still believe in Father Christmas, but there are discussions now between the environment ministry and the big maize buyers like CP to 'educate' the farmers by refusing to buy crop if they burn off. Very hard to control and maybe naive to believe in it, but I hope next year will not be so bad. I know, I know people have been saying this for years.

Of course, once the smog dies down, so does all the pressure for change, or so it seems.

Perhaps if CM had an elected Governor he might care more about 'his' citizens and do more than borrow a couple of chinooks from Singapore.Let's hope that Pim, the editor of CityLife can maintain some pressure for change.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Pretty ludicrous post, considering that the trend remains down. With increased effort and awareness that we are seeing in recent years, hopefully that will continue or even accelerate.

Where were you 15-20 years ago?

And then "The first half of the year." Did January run over your dog or something that you don't appreciate the best month of the year?

Edited April 23, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[northernjohn]

Pretty ludicrous post, considering that the trend remains down. With increased effort and awareness that we are seeing in recent years, hopefully that will continue or even accelerate.

Where were you 15-20 years ago?

And then "The first half of the year." Did January run over your dog or something that you don't appreciate the best month of the year?

Capture.JPG

15 20 years ago they were younger.

Seems like the older some people get the more critical they get.

[FolkGuitar]

'the first half of the year' to be avoided??

Maybe I am lucky not to suffer breathing problems normally but it seems to me that the really high PM problems were only about 4 weeks. Very unpleasant for that time, but not a problem for 26 weeks for most, surely??.

I'm with you on this one! The air pollution numbers were considerably lower this year than previous years. I wore a mask for about two weeks, and didn't bother with it any longer. Chiang Mai air is so much better than L.A.'s year-round smog, and it's nothing to get upset about. I'm really not sure why we get the whiners every year who feel they need to run off somewhere. Granted, blue skies and clean air are nicer, but we get that from May to March. If there are a couple of weeks when the skies are blocked by some smoke, no big deal. And if the numbers continue to decrease each year AS THEY HAVE BEEN, soon we won't even need to bother with masks at all!

[Chicog]

Yes, and they don't spray the PM sensors with water nor do they fiddle with the readings to make them look good.

It was horrible this year, and I was ready to bail after three days, but fortunately there was a decent stint of rain that had the desired effect.

But you cannot rely on it.

And until the Thais start treating it as a serious public health issue, I think I'll just plan to go south instead.

And I'll recommend the same to anyone and their auntie who is considering coming to Chiang Mai in the 1st and 2nd quarters.

It is an annual disgrace on the part of both the Chiang Mai and national goverments.

[roger1999]

The only month anyone needs to worry about is March, and then April if you can't stand the heat. The rest of the year is just fine.

[Mapguy]

Good luck!

Edited April 23, 2015 by Mapguy

[Chicog]

Good luck!

Luck doesn't really enter into apart from the weather.

Easier to give it a miss and go when the peasants aren't torching everything in sight.

[beau thai]

Yes, and they don't spray the PM sensors with water nor do they fiddle with the readings to make them look good.

It was horrible this year, and I was ready to bail after three days, but fortunately there was a decent stint of rain that had the desired effect.

But you cannot rely on it.

And until the Thais start treating it as a serious public health issue, I think I'll just plan to go south instead.

And I'll recommend the same to anyone and their auntie who is considering coming to Chiang Mai in the 1st and 2nd quarters.

It is an annual disgrace on the part of both the Chiang Mai and national goverments.

Your pigs look as though they are flying through good clean air...

If you are suspicious of the published data it's always possible to buy your own monitor, but I am sure most people can tell by smell and by the effect on their breathing outside, especially if they play sport. But to suggest a 6 month boycott is ridiculous. There may be 1 bad month and 5 good ones.

But you are right, it is a national disgrace and it is damaging very young kids (mostly thai of course) and killing very old or sick people. Regional governmenmt needs to take action now and not wait for the next annual hand-wringing in 2016

[Rogergreybeard]

Let's have another meeting

[Ricardo]

Let's have another meeting

Or perhaps a first-class 5-star-hotel study-trip, to see how other countries tackle this problem, just not to China/Laos/Burma/Cambodia in March or April !

[jonwilly]

"Where were you 15-20 years ago?"

In another thread I said I would ask my friend who has been in CM for over 54 years when in his opinion did the bad 'Smog' start.

​Now he is 95 years of age and understandable said he could not remember exactly but 20- 25 years ago seemed about right.

There always was a 'mist' season with reduced visibility but the smog suddenly developed.

"The only month anyone needs to worry about is March, and then April if you can't stand the heat. The rest of the year is just fine."

I agree with this statement and would add May for heat. Some years are worse then others and I consider this year to have been relatively mild.

The visibility did not drop below 1.5 Kms IMHO, for bad the year after they opened the Royal Flower Park was worse I have known, 2007 I think.

I could on one occasion not clearly see the bookshop across from Bad Dog, 400 mtrs I estimate.

I suffer from the 'smog' and now have plans to head for the coast when I find I develop a cough, my eyes start stinging and weeping.

I have been away 4 times in last 6 years having stayed this year.

john

[piewarmer]

My eyes were burning for the first time this year. been in CM 9 years.

[Saan]

Pretty ludicrous post, considering that the trend remains down. With increased effort and awareness that we are seeing in recent years, hopefully that will continue or even accelerate.

Where were you 15-20 years ago?

And then "The first half of the year." Did January run over your dog or something that you don't appreciate the best month of the year?

Capture.JPG

I love it, Winnie thinks the problem is solved because 15-20 years ago the air pollution in Chiang Mai was worse. Tell that to the tens of thousands of people who have attended Chiang Mai hospitals this year with acute respiratory problems brought on by the smog.

What is ludicrous is that we are recording readings of tiny particles at 253 mg per cu/m and this is a cause of joy for you because for the past 20 years you have lived through unacceptable levels of air pollution that have been actually higher than this.

This is not a pissing contest but a serious heath problem.

[keo]

The only month anyone needs to worry about is March, and then April if you can't stand the heat. The rest of the year is just fine.

There was a study done at CMU which concluded that PM 2.5 was at dangerous levels in Chiang Mai between November - April. Don't know if I would call that "just fine"?

If anyone has the link the above study, please share - I can't find it.

[uptheos]

Maybe we should give ourselves that OP advice and clear out for 3 months!!

[northernjohn]

_{A big factor over looked here is the damage the Ex Pats are doing to the air quality.}

_{All they want to do is blame the problem on the various types of fires.}

_{Not a word about the growing number of vehicles they have added to the situation.}

_{Or the number of songthaew's that have come on the scene to carry them around.}

_{Or that through them many Thais have been able to upgrade to autos.}

_{They come in here wanting to get the same standard of living they had where they lived neglecting}

_{the fact that they are in a different culture not yet up to there high standards.}

_{They are getting older and are more sensitive to the smog than in their younger years.}

_{so they carry on as if it was getting worse. One month almost every year and a part of another month}

_{are the bad times. If they can not take December and January they have no place here in Chuiang Mai.}

_{Move South.}

_{The statistics are there instead of denying them have a look at your own failing ability to with stand}

_{the smog.}

[roger1999]

We probably all know people who have been smoking two packs a day for 30+ years. That's what I call breathing bad air.

[Saan]

We probably all know people who have been smoking two packs a day for 30+ years. That's what I call breathing bad air.

I haven't had a cigarette for over 30 years and now my lungs will end up as if I smoked for every day of those 30 years.

[Saan]

_{A big factor over looked here is the damage the Ex Pats are doing to the air quality.}

_{All they want to do is blame the problem on the various types of fires.}

_{Not a word about the growing number of vehicles they have added to the situation.}

_{Or the number of songthaew's that have come on the scene to carry them around.}

_{Or that through them many Thais have been able to upgrade to autos.}

_{They come in here wanting to get the same standard of living they had where they lived neglecting}

_{the fact that they are in a different culture not yet up to there high standards.}

_{They are getting older and are more sensitive to the smog than in their younger years.}

_{so they carry on as if it was getting worse. One month almost every year and a part of another month}

_{are the bad times. If they can not take December and January they have no place here in Chuiang Mai.}

_{Move South.}

_{The statistics are there instead of denying them have a look at your own failing ability to with stand}

_{the smog.}

Good idea northernjohn - blame it on the farangs. If they didn't eat CP pork dumplings then there would be no need to grow all that corn to feed the pigs and the trash from the corn farms would not have to be burnt off. Problem solved get rid of the farangs.

[FolkGuitar]

Perhaps there actually IS an up-side to the air quality. There are two problems relating to the air quality; the actually figures, and the way people deal with them.

On the plus side, it causes a lot of chronic complainers to leave Chiang Mai, making it far more comfortable for those of us who choose to stay.

Spending today complaining about yesterday isn't going to make tomorrow better. Facing tomorrow with a better attitude will.

And before you say it, no, it won't make the air cleaner. But neither will complaining about the problem. It does, however, solve one of the two problems.

[jonwilly]

I understand that Farmers have been burning to create 'Fertiliser' since before Buddha was born.

I have two Thai friends aged 30-40 both CM natives and both say that things where not always as now with our 'Smog' season in March.

They also are of the opinion that our Smog started 20+ years ago when they where young men.

Do Buddhists not just accept thing that are part of nature and it's very much a Frang thing to question what annoys us.

Also I found it strange that this year first place to 'Top Out' on PM 10 was down in Lampang which is not in a Bowl that suffers with an Inversion.

john

Edited April 24, 2015 by jonwilly

[northernjohn]

_{A big factor over looked here is the damage the Ex Pats are doing to the air quality.}

_{All they want to do is blame the problem on the various types of fires.}

_{Not a word about the growing number of vehicles they have added to the situation.}

_{Or the number of songthaew's that have come on the scene to carry them around.}

_{Or that through them many Thais have been able to upgrade to autos.}

_{They come in here wanting to get the same standard of living they had where they lived neglecting}

_{the fact that they are in a different culture not yet up to there high standards.}

_{They are getting older and are more sensitive to the smog than in their younger years.}

_{so they carry on as if it was getting worse. One month almost every year and a part of another month}

_{are the bad times. If they can not take December and January they have no place here in Chuiang Mai.}

_{Move South.}

_{The statistics are there instead of denying them have a look at your own failing ability to with stand}

_{the smog.}

Good idea northernjohn - blame it on the farangs. If they didn't eat CP pork dumplings then there would be no need to grow all that corn to feed the pigs and the trash from the corn farms would not have to be burnt off. Problem solved get rid of the farangs.

You are visual proof that the Farongs want to take no part in the blame.

Thailand is a big country. If you don't like Chiang Mai try another locale.

Why inflict punishment on yourself? That is Thai logic.

[Chicog]

I understand that Farmers have been burning to create 'Fertiliser' since before Buddha was born.

Yes, and in the West it is now outlawed in favour of ploughing under, which actually retains more of the nutrients in the soil from which they came.

I really that this isn't such a factor here, but there is still no need to burn.

[sfokevin]

This should turn a few tourist away...

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/police-discover-bags-of-body-parts-in-chiang-mai.html

Edited April 24, 2015 by sfokevin

[Saan]

Perhaps there actually IS an up-side to the air quality. There are two problems relating to the air quality; the actually figures, and the way people deal with them.

On the plus side, it causes a lot of chronic complainers to leave Chiang Mai, making it far more comfortable for those of us who choose to stay.

Spending today complaining about yesterday isn't going to make tomorrow better. Facing tomorrow with a better attitude will.

And before you say it, no, it won't make the air cleaner. But neither will complaining about the problem. It does, however, solve one of the two problems.

That's what we need 'a better attitude' and everything will be alright. It's OK to whinge about the road toll and drink driving.

You should remember that drink driving has been acceptable for many years. Thais have been doing it all the time. So have farangs. Tradition, can't interfere with tradition. So burn away it is what has been done for eons.

It is hard to believe to that in your 2263 posts you have never 'complained' about anything in Chiang Mai.

Strum away.

[Rob8891]

"It's not as bad as when....." "You should have been here xx years ago....." "Blah, blah, blah..." BS! It really isn't any cause for petty one-upmanship, folks.

The simple fact is that the air quality index has been significantly high this year (AQI of 151-200 at least in CM) and that is still harming people's health. By carping on "In my day it were really bad....ee, couldn't see t'hand in front o' t'face" all you are doing is denying that there is still a health problem, which gives support to the polluters and to those who do zilch about clearing the mess up apart from quoting laws that no one ever enforces..

Or maybe you are happy to breathe in all that particulate matter.