Farangs know nothing

[nithisa78]

You're right Farangs know nothing. Though they can make a big something out of nothing. They know that.

[CharlieH]

Several off topic squabbling/bickering posts removed.

If you cant discuss/comment and show mutual respect for each other then don't post.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[meltingpot2015]

Not saying this could apply for the OP (because the OP is unable to get about due to illness), but for anyone doing this kind of thing (someone with construction experience, who would know the exact amount of material needed), they could tell the builders beforehand, let us take the responsibility for estimating the materials, ordering it and delivery. It may be best coming from the OP (farang) than the wife, as it may sound a bit "she's got some nerve" coming from wife. The builders may lose face if the wife says asks them, "is it okay if my husband makes the estimates and gets the material delivered". (Particularly if the wife has already said to the builders that the OP used to be in construction) Just as post #86 (BTW I don't agree with most of post #86) says this is more about losing face than use of logic. While westerners mostly work using logic, in Thailand and other asian countries, its all about 'losing face'.

So I guess, westerners logic needs to adopt to how best to handle a situation without making anyone 'lose face'. Easier said than done!. BTW, I did take the time to read all the posts.

p.s. I used to live in another Asian country for a while and building work for an extension was done in a pretty-much ad-hoc way. If they run-out of something, they would literally have to send someone to the store to get it. in the OP's case the rice farmers didn't have to do that because they ordered extra. (maybe I am naive assuming this, but personally, I don't think all Thais are crooks) So if the owner provides estimate and material (again not saying this is possible with the OP) the rice farmer (workmen) don't need to worry about ordering short or ordering in excess.

@OP:

you require the same materials no matter what country it is.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Edited April 29, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[louse1953]

I feel for you Colin.Been there done that.I,like you,have been in construction a long time.Sorry to say,the missus is the problem,not in a bad way.You have to deal with the contractor,direct.You make up your list and give it to him.If you stuff up,it's on you.You lose the face,but you probably wouldn't worry about that.Also get on good terms with your building supplier,make sure they take returns.Works for me.This will take a knowledge of the Thai language and maybe a few beers.

[louse1953]

who is the boss in your house?,the wife ,the workers or you,

you knew you were correct in the quantities of materials you

needed,why did you not put your foot down,you were paying

i would think.

regards Worgeordie

Comment from the cave.Nothing to do with boss, this shouldn't be the way in 21st century.It's who has the best experience of the job in hand.Some wives are very much on the ball in the building game.

[louse1953]

They had you order extra everything so there would be something to steal. They way you worked it out there was nothing for them.

How can it be stolen if it is sent back for refund,and you get the receipts.Gotta keep your eye on the ball.In Colin's case this maybe a bit harder.He is going to have to put a lot of trust in a lot of people.

[louse1953]

sounds to me you need to get control of your wife, tell her farangs do the thinking and thais do the s- - - - - - g and the f- - - - - g stick to what ur good at.

Now i know,why some farangs come to Thailand.

[louse1953]

I went through the building of an entire house like this, ...... the ground was covered with red roof tiles that had been chipped or broken, and there was still a pile of bundles unused. The lack of logic astounds me, ..... they laid the tile floor then erected scaffolding to work on the ceiling and walls. The floor was covered in slopped materials and several of the tiles needed to be replaced!

The house was supposed to cost 1.5 to 2 million baht and take 6 months to complete. .... costs exceeded 7 million baht and it took 2 years! I would never advise anyone to build anything in Thailand.

Bugger me!!! I would advise anybody to to listen to "any" advise you give.

[louse1953]

Is "cube" a construction term for m3 or Ft3 or similar in England?

It's a Thai term,which we use in Thailand,when speaking to Thais,so they will know what we are talking about.TIT.

[bander]

Why Thais always order more than needed?

They use the excess of your materials on their next assignment.

Things start to disappear as soon as you turn your back on the workers.

If you don't believe me just put up a hidden cctv cam, you will be surprised when you see your wife help the workers with the theft.

Welcome to LOS (land of scam)

Edited April 30, 2015 by bander

[louse1953]

My wife built our mud brick bungalow.

She designed it, she took care of the planning / scheduling and she instructed the local workers (mostly rice farmers) exactly how she wanted it built.

Started off with the intention of being a 1 room bungalow where I could go and hide if the karaoke got too loud in the bar but it must have got lost in translation. LOL !!!001.JPG002.JPG012.JPG013.jpg016.JPG021.jpg

Amazing to see a Thai interested in muddies,good stuff.I am helping a Thai family to build a muddie for their holiday use,and to show the locals what can be done.Not sure about the roof though,starts to leak after 5 years.She wants you to go there and stay there.

[bander]

Having a new veranda built on our home.

We are paying for materials, workers labour only.

Fun and games, worker gives my wife a list of materials, wife shows me. !! what is this !! list for materials darling says the wife, rubbish says i.

I had already calculated quantity of materials required, after 42 years in construction in UK i think i know what is required.

Workers ordered 3 concrete columns, i said 2, workers ordered 2 cube sand 2 cube stone 14 cement.

I said 1.5 cube sand 1.5 cube stone 5oo kilos of cement. 5 cube dry materials/mixed 3.5 cube wet.

Roof sheets workers want 68, i said 60. Steel i said 9 4x2 workers said 13, i said 14 2x1 workers said 8.

Ceiling sheets i said 6, workers said 4. shera wood workers said 100, i said 80.

Quess who my wife listened to, me or workers?

Easy she listened to (rice farmers) workers.

Now we have 1 concrete column left 5 cement 3/4 cube sand 3/4 cube.

8 roof sheets , 22 shera wood.

We had to order 4 more 4x2 steel, 5 more 2x1 steel, 2 more ceiling sheets.

What a bloody fiasco, but darling workers said, i listened, why you not listen to your husband, who has more than 40 years experience.

You work in England this is Thailand. So you require the same materials no matter what country it is.

The mind bogols at the logic of Thais, or lack of logic.

Force your wife into admitting her fault. Force her to introspect, and acknowledge the gravity of her error, and the amount of money she cost the family. Force her to apologize and to promise she will never side with a fool again, over a trusted spouse. Only in this way will she grow, develop as a human being, and improve as a person and a spouse. This kind of thing is very painful for a Thai, as introspection is not something they like to engage in. But, it works. I have used it, and it works.

You are dreaming man, have you ever heard any Thai admit they are wrong? That means they lose face big time and you have an enemy for life.

[louse1953]

My wife built our mud brick bungalow.

She designed it, she took care of the planning / scheduling and she instructed the local workers (mostly rice farmers) exactly how she wanted it built.

Started off with the intention of being a 1 room bungalow where I could go and hide if the karaoke got too loud in the bar but it must have got lost in translation. LOL !!!001.JPG002.JPG012.JPG013.jpg016.JPG021.jpg

Cool house !

Yep, I think we both have seen similar experiences in building a house in Thailand, and supervised by the trouble and strife. But really this happens in any country, the difference is Thais are a little bit more forgiving that you got angry with them.

Once you get away from the typical 4 wall cinder block bungalow design common up-country, anything can happen.

I told my missus when building the house,if we get through the next 3 months we can get through anything.

[Ballbearing]

My wife built our mud brick bungalow.

She designed it, she took care of the planning / scheduling and she instructed the local workers (mostly rice farmers) exactly how she wanted it built.

Started off with the intention of being a 1 room bungalow where I could go and hide if the karaoke got too loud in the bar but it must have got lost in translation. LOL !!!001.JPG002.JPG012.JPG013.jpg016.JPG021.jpg

Cool house !

Yep, I think we both have seen similar experiences in building a house in Thailand, and supervised by the trouble and strife. But really this happens in any country, the difference is Thais are a little bit more forgiving that you got angry with them.

Once you get away from the typical 4 wall cinder block bungalow design common up-country, anything can happen.

I told my missus when building the house,if we get through the next 3 months we can get through anything.

We (she) started building in August 2014 and just built as we could afford it.

I work a 4/1 roster so I just came back once a month to check on progress.

She learnt how to make the bricks in Chiang Mai and then put her own spin on it.

When the bar / restaurant was quiet we had the staff making bricks so it worked out well.

Grass roof is only for looks - plastic roof sheeting underneath.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Ballbearing

[louse1953]

In this case OP is basing his own personal experience and equating it to the entire country. Kind of boogles the mind why his own wife wouldn't listen to her own husband who being a farang and being quite old (from his avatar) which would mean he has vastly more experience compared to the thai workers who i might add are rice farmers according to the OP and thus inferior to him because they are just nameless, brainless, faceless rice farmers who couldn't be better than a farang in the construction business. The most ironic thing is his wife who is thai and whom he married would rather listen to her own countrymen you know those stupid low class rice farmers working in construction over her own husband who with his vast experience and being a farang should definitely know more than them. Then again he chose to actually stay in thailand and marry her and then start a diatribe on the country afterwards. It is kind of like getting yourself a pet chimp and then complaining that the chimp poops itself and doesn't behave like a human should not that i am advocating that thais are in any way related to chimps but rather the odd way some of you farangs complain of the country that you yourself chose to reside in despite knowing or thinking that it's inferior to your own home country but yet still choosing to stay there. That would be akin to moving to say zimbabewe and then complaining hey they don't have nice looking cities and homes and their basic ammenities like electricity, running water always seems to shut down unlike back in my home country where everythinM

Makes you wonder how all those multi story buildings in Bangkok get built at all and manage to last a coupla years.By the way,your related to chimps,99% dna.

[micmichd]

Not sure, Thailand is a subtropical country, and the material used in buildings must fit different climatical challenges.

Edited April 30, 2015 by micmichd

[meltingpot2015]

Sure the OP took these in to account.

There is building material quantities, then there is building materials. Pretty sure we are talking about Quantities here. 3 concrete columns or 2 concrete columns. For a small building like a extension, pretty simple. For larger building dont know if you need more columns to withstand storms (monsoon season) or if they need special reinforcement.

[micmichd]

I'm Farang, and I read somewhere that buildings in extreme climate zones need adjustments from time to time. Maybe extra material is needed for this. In former Southern Europe quite a few buildings collapsed due to quantitative lacks of material, I would prefer a safe building using a small buffer quantity.

As a Farang I don't know exactly how much, but I guess Thai people know better.

Edited April 30, 2015 by micmichd

[meltingpot2015]

so, is this a 'one-off' where they got it wrong?

[spidermike007]

Having a new veranda built on our home.

We are paying for materials, workers labour only.

Fun and games, worker gives my wife a list of materials, wife shows me. !! what is this !! list for materials darling says the wife, rubbish says i.

I had already calculated quantity of materials required, after 42 years in construction in UK i think i know what is required.

Workers ordered 3 concrete columns, i said 2, workers ordered 2 cube sand 2 cube stone 14 cement.

I said 1.5 cube sand 1.5 cube stone 5oo kilos of cement. 5 cube dry materials/mixed 3.5 cube wet.

Roof sheets workers want 68, i said 60. Steel i said 9 4x2 workers said 13, i said 14 2x1 workers said 8.

Ceiling sheets i said 6, workers said 4. shera wood workers said 100, i said 80.

Quess who my wife listened to, me or workers?

Easy she listened to (rice farmers) workers.

Now we have 1 concrete column left 5 cement 3/4 cube sand 3/4 cube.

8 roof sheets , 22 shera wood.

We had to order 4 more 4x2 steel, 5 more 2x1 steel, 2 more ceiling sheets.

What a bloody fiasco, but darling workers said, i listened, why you not listen to your husband, who has more than 40 years experience.

You work in England this is Thailand. So you require the same materials no matter what country it is.

The mind bogols at the logic of Thais, or lack of logic.

Force your wife into admitting her fault. Force her to introspect, and acknowledge the gravity of her error, and the amount of money she cost the family. Force her to apologize and to promise she will never side with a fool again, over a trusted spouse. Only in this way will she grow, develop as a human being, and improve as a person and a spouse. This kind of thing is very painful for a Thai, as introspection is not something they like to engage in. But, it works. I have used it, and it works.

why not take the whip out beat her, chain her to table and withhold rations as well, your dealing with an adult not a child, how perfectly arrogant of you

I suggest we do something similar for farangs...dunce cap and sit the corner facing the wall, based on a lot of the response on TV going to need a big wall and a lot of dunce caps...

You really missed my point. Growth can be a healthy thing for a relationship. If she becomes aware of how important this is to you, she may be willing to think thoughts she has never pondered before.

[spidermike007]

Having a new veranda built on our home.

We are paying for materials, workers labour only.

Fun and games, worker gives my wife a list of materials, wife shows me. !! what is this !! list for materials darling says the wife, rubbish says i.

I had already calculated quantity of materials required, after 42 years in construction in UK i think i know what is required.

Workers ordered 3 concrete columns, i said 2, workers ordered 2 cube sand 2 cube stone 14 cement.

I said 1.5 cube sand 1.5 cube stone 5oo kilos of cement. 5 cube dry materials/mixed 3.5 cube wet.

Roof sheets workers want 68, i said 60. Steel i said 9 4x2 workers said 13, i said 14 2x1 workers said 8.

Ceiling sheets i said 6, workers said 4. shera wood workers said 100, i said 80.

Quess who my wife listened to, me or workers?

Easy she listened to (rice farmers) workers.

Now we have 1 concrete column left 5 cement 3/4 cube sand 3/4 cube.

8 roof sheets , 22 shera wood.

We had to order 4 more 4x2 steel, 5 more 2x1 steel, 2 more ceiling sheets.

What a bloody fiasco, but darling workers said, i listened, why you not listen to your husband, who has more than 40 years experience.

You work in England this is Thailand. So you require the same materials no matter what country it is.

The mind bogols at the logic of Thais, or lack of logic.

Force your wife into admitting her fault. Force her to introspect, and acknowledge the gravity of her error, and the amount of money she cost the family. Force her to apologize and to promise she will never side with a fool again, over a trusted spouse. Only in this way will she grow, develop as a human being, and improve as a person and a spouse. This kind of thing is very painful for a Thai, as introspection is not something they like to engage in. But, it works. I have used it, and it works.

You are dreaming man, have you ever heard any Thai admit they are wrong? That means they lose face big time and you have an enemy for life.

But, you are referring to average. Who wants average? Why settle for average? Why not find exceptional? One who is willing to lift herself above the mundane crowd of sheep, who are willing to live their lives without ever reflecting on themselves, or looking within? If compelling a woman into looking within makes her an enemy, than I would admit my mistake on having chosen her, and move on.

Face is merely an act of extreme cowardice, and how can one improve, develop, and grow unless one looks within for the source of the problem, admits it, and moves forward? I say it is impossible. So, be bold, ask a lot, and you might be pleasantly surprised when your woman steps up. I sure was.

[micmichd]

I would accept a little fight, defend myself a little bit (maybe just duck and cover), then make peace and explain the budget to her.

Did she already understand that you can spend money only once after you took it out from ATM?

Edited April 30, 2015 by micmichd

[spidermike007]

Having a new veranda built on our home.

We are paying for materials, workers labour only.

Fun and games, worker gives my wife a list of materials, wife shows me. !! what is this !! list for materials darling says the wife, rubbish says i.

I had already calculated quantity of materials required, after 42 years in construction in UK i think i know what is required.

Workers ordered 3 concrete columns, i said 2, workers ordered 2 cube sand 2 cube stone 14 cement.

I said 1.5 cube sand 1.5 cube stone 5oo kilos of cement. 5 cube dry materials/mixed 3.5 cube wet.

Roof sheets workers want 68, i said 60. Steel i said 9 4x2 workers said 13, i said 14 2x1 workers said 8.

Ceiling sheets i said 6, workers said 4. shera wood workers said 100, i said 80.

Quess who my wife listened to, me or workers?

Easy she listened to (rice farmers) workers.

Now we have 1 concrete column left 5 cement 3/4 cube sand 3/4 cube.

8 roof sheets , 22 shera wood.

We had to order 4 more 4x2 steel, 5 more 2x1 steel, 2 more ceiling sheets.

What a bloody fiasco, but darling workers said, i listened, why you not listen to your husband, who has more than 40 years experience.

You work in England this is Thailand. So you require the same materials no matter what country it is.

The mind bogols at the logic of Thais, or lack of logic.

Force your wife into admitting her fault. Force her to introspect, and acknowledge the gravity of her error, and the amount of money she cost the family. Force her to apologize and to promise she will never side with a fool again, over a trusted spouse. Only in this way will she grow, develop as a human being, and improve as a person and a spouse. This kind of thing is very painful for a Thai, as introspection is not something they like to engage in. But, it works. I have used it, and it works.

That would be "loss of Face" big time,I guess nobody has ever told you,it just don't happen in Thailand,and I believe forcing your wife to admit she was wrong,would be more painful for you than her!

Quite the opposite. I spent two years working on her, and she came around. She now admits her errors, and is willing to apologize, just as I do when I am wrong. Just as any couple does in a healthy relationship with good communication. I simply do not give into all the defeatist talk that Thais are not capable of this. They just need encouragement, an education in healthy behavior, and a realization that it leads to a happy and fulfilled life. Face is nonsense. It is child's play, and the total lack of courage. Help them to overcome this incredible character deficit.

[colinneil]

Very interesting reading some of the replies to my post.

One thing i do not have to worry about is theft. We have a cctv system covering the property.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I just stay right out of it and let me wife handle this even if I am better.

Ignorance can be a bliss.

[connda]

Did you pay for it or did she? If she paid for it, it's her business. If you paid for it, then it's your own fault.

[meltingpot2015]

All makes sense now. Post #114 gives 'closure' on this one. Good riddance.

[hawker9000]

I just stay right out of it and let me wife handle this even if I am better.

Ignorance can be a bliss.

It can be expensive, too.

[thailand49]

Having a new veranda built on our home.

We are paying for materials, workers labour only.

Fun and games, worker gives my wife a list of materials, wife shows me. !! what is this !! list for materials darling says the wife, rubbish says i.

I had already calculated quantity of materials required, after 42 years in construction in UK i think i know what is required.

Workers ordered 3 concrete columns, i said 2, workers ordered 2 cube sand 2 cube stone 14 cement.

I said 1.5 cube sand 1.5 cube stone 5oo kilos of cement. 5 cube dry materials/mixed 3.5 cube wet.

Roof sheets workers want 68, i said 60. Steel i said 9 4x2 workers said 13, i said 14 2x1 workers said 8.

Ceiling sheets i said 6, workers said 4. shera wood workers said 100, i said 80.

Quess who my wife listened to, me or workers?

Easy she listened to (rice farmers) workers.

Now we have 1 concrete column left 5 cement 3/4 cube sand 3/4 cube.

8 roof sheets , 22 shera wood.

We had to order 4 more 4x2 steel, 5 more 2x1 steel, 2 more ceiling sheets.

What a bloody fiasco, but darling workers said, i listened, why you not listen to your husband, who has more than 40 years experience.

You work in England this is Thailand. So you require the same materials no matter what country it is.

The mind bogols at the logic of Thais, or lack of logic.

Force your wife into admitting her fault. Force her to introspect, and acknowledge the gravity of her error, and the amount of money she cost the family. Force her to apologize and to promise she will never side with a fool again, over a trusted spouse. Only in this way will she grow, develop as a human being, and improve as a person and a spouse. This kind of thing is very painful for a Thai, as introspection is not something they like to engage in. But, it works. I have used it, and it works.

That would be "loss of Face" big time,I guess nobody has ever told you,it just don't happen in Thailand,and I believe forcing your wife to admit she was wrong,would be more painful for you than her!

Quite the opposite. I spent two years working on her, and she came around. She now admits her errors, and is willing to apologize, just as I do when I am wrong. Just as any couple does in a healthy relationship with good communication. I simply do not give into all the defeatist talk that Thais are not capable of this. They just need encouragement, an education in healthy behavior, and a realization that it leads to a happy and fulfilled life. Face is nonsense. It is child's play, and the total lack of courage. Help them to overcome this incredible character deficit.

You are right but you do realize that the comments including mines, are in " GENERALIZATION " and that includes yours. If you have a women that can learn what you just spoke of more power to you and you have a women with a good head on her shoulders. You are very luck, envious to many including me but from my experience she might be in a league of her own because I've lived here for a long time and have not met one Thai HI or LO So that like being criticized or challenged in the open. Of course I'm talking in general like yourself from our own experiences.

Edited May 1, 2015 by thailand49

[hutchings1963]

Do not worry you can take it all back and get your money as long as you have bill from them to prove you bought it there.