Has There Been Events in Thailand as Big as What is Going on in Indonesia Right Now?

[Time Traveller]

Don't forget. The United States executes people and later finds out they were innocent.

Which is better than the countries that execute people they knew at the time were innocent.

The topic was about Indonesia and Thailand so what was the point of your post exactly? A bit of anti-American whining perhaps?

Edited May 1, 2015 by Time Traveller

[SiSePuede419]

<strike>Smuggling drugs</strike> Selling alcohol alcohol <strike>IS</strike> IS NOT a crime against persons...

have you forgotten about the thousands of lives and families that get destroyed by the <strike>drugs smuggled</strike> LEGAL alcohol sold?

Of course you have.

have you forgotten about the thousands of crimes (including murders) that <strike>drug addicts</strike> ALCOHOLICS do on a daily basis in order to get the money for their addiction?

Of course you have.

Edited May 1, 2015 by SiSePuede419

[Time Traveller]

Why these ridiculous countries (USA included) cannot understand that death penalty does not stop any crime ?

Ok, lets say that I am open mind and that I accept it for crimes against persons, but how can any country still use death penalty for drugs ? These Asia countries make me throw out..

Smuggling drugs IS a crime against persons... have you forgotten about the thousands of lives and families that get destroyed by the drugs smuggled? have you forgotten about the thousands of crimes (including murders) that drug addicts do on a daily basis in order to get the money for their addiction?

Putting smugglers away in line with the laws of the countries is the way to go. Smugglers know the risk the take when they do their crime against thousands of persons, specially when they do it in countries that have the harshest penalties for those crimes, just they take the risk for a huge gain they would make. No tears from me for them.

P.S.: Have the Australian and the other governments ever withdrawn their embassadors from the US of A when they (the US of A) put mentally retarded people to death?

I understand your hardline stance. But there is hypocrisy in your view. Legal drugs kill many times the number of people dying from illegal drugs. In fact, comparing the Indonesian President's quoted figure of 50 people a day dying from illlegal drugs in his country, with the WHO recent figures showing around 550 people a day dying from cigarette smoking related illnesses. Are you saying that the cigarette company, the government, the tobacco grower, the shopkeeper that sells this addictive substance that kills is entitled to make billions in profits and freedom, but that another person that sells another less deadly substance is deserving of death?

The issue is much bigger than the 2 aussie smugglers, since at least 2 or 3 of the other prisoners that were originally scheduled to be executed and who claimed - with at least a good element of doubt - that they were unaware of the drugs in their vicinity/possession. If being unaware of trafficking drugs is no acceptable excuse, then why don't we also execute Airlines and their pilots for also being involved in the internation trafficking of drugs?

Clearly, it seems that it is much easier to go for the softest target to kill and make a spectacle of them, even if it contradictory to how others are treated.

Finally there is the issue of what crimes are deserving of death penalty. And remember it's called capital punishment becuase it designed to punish people, not to stop crimes. The UN says that capital punishment should only ever be used for the most heinous of crimes. That is, violent crimes like Murder, Genocide, terrorist acts, are examples. Drug crimes are NON VIOLENT so are not considered heinous.

Unfortunately, Indonesia is a country that beleives differently. Recent examples have shown that murder even terrorism are not considered serious - such as the case of American that killed his girlfriends mother in Bali, or the fact several person is directly planned and supplied the materials for the Bali bombing in 2001 were now released from prison.

PS. And since you are talking about USA, as far as I know they have never executed an Australian citizen, so why would Australia protest against them? And secondly, they don't execute drug traffickers, death penalty in the USA is reserved for violent killers.

So it's ridiculous to compare USA with Indonesia over the death penalty as they are completely used differently..

Edited May 1, 2015 by Time Traveller

[Time Traveller]

Australian politicians are having a candle light vigil for those 2 dirtbags. If they would have got away with it, would those same assh£le politicians, done the same for all the deaths that heroin would have caused. Yes an I am an Aussie. They knew the rules and did it before. Took a gamble and lost. Rigar mortis excreta. More commonly know as "stiff sh_t". May they rest in.........the ground.

How do you fit drug trafficking in the same level as violent crimes like murder, or the rape & killing of children, or blowing up a night club full of people ?

Because those are all crimes where people in Indonesia were given sentences of 20 years or less? Do you beleive murder and rape and killing children is less of a crime than carrying heroin - even if you had no idea you had it?

[northernjohn]

Why these ridiculous countries (USA included) cannot understand that death penalty does not stop any crime ?

Ok, lets say that I am open mind and that I accept it for crimes against persons, but how can any country still use death penalty for drugs ? These Asia countries make me throw out..

Wrong the death penalty has never once in thousands of years failed to stop a repeat offender.

there is a school of thought that premeditated murders if given life in prison will cause people to reconsider. Many of them prefer death to life in Prison.

Mind you that theory kind of falls apart in the states where the death penalty can take up to 18 years.

[Suradit69]

It is no secret that some countries have very harsh penalties for dealing drugs.

Some will even execute dealers.

Again, it is no secret or surprise!

Anyone stupid enough to get involved with drugs in these countries ( including Thailand ) deserves no sympathy.

They deserve what they get!

Of course the ones who get caught are seldom in the upper echelon of the "business" and some of those caught transporting drugs are forced into it if, for example, family members are held hostage or other threats are made or. as you say, they're stupid because they allowed themselves to be used by the real criminals.

[Suradit69]

Don't forget. The United States executes people and later finds out they were innocent.

Which is better than the countries that execute people they knew at the time were innocent.

The topic was about Indonesia and Thailand so what was the point of your post exactly? A bit of anti-American whining perhaps?

"Which is better than the countries that execute people they knew at the time were innocent."

So if you're executed because of police/ prosecutorial incompetence or corruption that caused a court/jury to give the death sentence out of ignorance, that's somehow excusable. Oops, we screwed up and now you're dead. Your family can hang a nicely framed copy of the posthumous pardon in the living room for comfort.

Incidentally, there was a Supreme Court ruling maybe 20 or 30 years ago that made a death sentence solely for drug dealing difficult to impossible without some direct link to a death caused by the crime. Of course drug dealers or "kingpins" sometimes do kill, which raises the stakes.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Suradit69

[trainman34014]

It's not being put to death that is painful....it is the waiting, which is the real 'punishment'.

[Time Traveller]

Don't forget. The United States executes people and later finds out they were innocent.

Which is better than the countries that execute people they knew at the time were innocent.

The topic was about Indonesia and Thailand so what was the point of your post exactly? A bit of anti-American whining perhaps?

"Which is better than the countries that execute people they knew at the time were innocent."

So if you're executed because of police/ prosecutorial incompetence or corruption that caused a court/jury to give the death sentence out of ignorance, that's somehow excusable. Oops, we screwed up and now you're dead. Your family can hang a nicely framed copy of the posthumous pardon in the living room for comfort.

Incidentally, there was a Supreme Court ruling maybe 20 or 30 years ago that made a death sentence solely for drug dealing difficult to impossible without some direct link to a death caused by the crime. Of course drug dealers or "kingpins" sometimes do kill, which raises the stakes.

I'm not in favor of death penalty. But I do understand the reasoning why some places use it for criminals who commit acts of violent crime. Obviously there is the risk that innocent people can get killed. But to say the US is as bad as Indonesia is just showing your anti-American bias.

In fact, I honestly, don't know how any non-biased person could do that since the USA is more like 50 different countries because not all states have death penalty. In fact, in the states that do have death penalty the methods of execution are different, the offences that are eligible for death penalty are different, as are the minimum ages for crimes when committed. Some states have even arguably executed mentally handicapped people, while others are very rigid in making sure they have the right person and they are of sound mind.

Indonesia falls more in the let's make a big spectacle of killing a weak target, even if there is doubt over their guilt. BTW, indonesia executes more foreigners than it does indonesians. The US executes almost no foreigners. In fact, I can't remember when they did, perhaps a Mexican killer?

[Thongkorn]

Perhaps not about drug executions.

But in 1977 when I first came to Thailand as a tourist there were still advertisements in Thai newspapers warning university students that unless they returned to register for their classes in the university, they would be suspended from the university.

That was after he events of 1976, when many students "disappeared" after anti government demonstrations when the police stormed the campus to arrest demonstrators.

And my tour guide when I went to the Crocodile farm then "jokingly" warned us not to get to close to the Croc pens as "they liked human flesh these days"

That was "Thainess" in 1977.

Thailand has a lot of history in the last few decades, they prefer not to talk about, especially to tourists.

I'm interested in finding out more about this.

Load of cobblers, My wife worked there , not at that time but she would have known of anything that happened there , she was a Police small arms trainer.

[Dannyboy666]

Don't forget. The United States executes people and later finds out they were innocent.

Which is better than the countries that execute people they knew at the time were innocent.

The topic was about Indonesia and Thailand so what was the point of your post exactly? A bit of anti-American whining perhaps?

These Monkeys jump on everything that's Bashes Americans...

[MrWorldwide]

OP, go back and look at the history of Thailand over the last 10-15 years and ask yourself if you can honestly compare that to the execution of convicted criminals in Indonesia. Those who live here - and that will soon be past tense for Yours Truly - know that the stakes are a lot higher for foreigners in Thailand. I could type up a scenario for a 'perfect storm' here, but I'm sure the same sequence of events has occurred to most who live here on a permanent basis : here's hoping it never comes to that.

[Time Traveller]

Don't forget. The United States executes people and later finds out they were innocent.

Which is better than the countries that execute people they knew at the time were innocent.

The topic was about Indonesia and Thailand so what was the point of your post exactly? A bit of anti-American whining perhaps?

These Monkeys jump on everything that's Bashes Americans...

Well i'm pretty sure if you wanted to you could find a fault with every nation. The fact that the comment overlooked the fact that 18 states do NOT have the death penalty of those that do one third of all executions are caused by one state - Texas - indicates this clearly just anti american bias on a different topic.

Perhaps you can educate a monkey... so let's meet in person? Today is fine

[GuestHouse]

Perhaps not about drug executions.

But in 1977 when I first came to Thailand as a tourist there were still advertisements in Thai newspapers warning university students that unless they returned to register for their classes in the university, they would be suspended from the university.

That was after he events of 1976, when many students "disappeared" after anti government demonstrations when the police stormed the campus to arrest demonstrators.

And my tour guide when I went to the Crocodile farm then "jokingly" warned us not to get to close to the Croc pens as "they liked human flesh these days"

That was "Thainess" in 1977.

Thailand has a lot of history in the last few decades, they prefer not to talk about, especially to tourists.

Thanks for posting, these events should not be allowed to be forgotten.

During the same period the military conducted campaigns against Thai communists in the northern provinces.

Until the early 90s there were memorials on some of the hills around Phitsanlok commemorating the executions of hundreds of people - their bodies burned by the military in oil drums.

There is a very dark side to modern Thai history, which is recorded in libraries and archives outside of Thailand, but not accessible within.

Contemporary accounts differ starkly with the official history.

[AyG]

During the same period the military conducted campaigns against Thai communists in the northern provinces.

Until the early 90s there were memorials on some of the hills around Phitsanlok commemorating the executions of hundreds of people - their bodies burned by the military in oil drums.

I'm not sure if you're making two points here, or one. Something's not right.

In the north, in 1972, around 200 communist insurgents were killed. That didn't involve oil drums AFAIK.

In the south in late 1972, 200 or so people were killed in Phattalung province (which is in the south. Phitsanulok is not) in the so-called "Red Drum Killings". (Some reports put the number as high as 3,000.) The individuals were beaten unconscious, then dumped into oil drums part filled with blazing gasoline and which had a metal grill part way down. Not a nice way to go.

Edited May 2, 2015 by AyG

[Banzai99]

Perhaps not about drug executions.

But in 1977 when I first came to Thailand as a tourist there were still advertisements in Thai newspapers warning university students that unless they returned to register for their classes in the university, they would be suspended from the university.

That was after he events of 1976, when many students "disappeared" after anti government demonstrations when the police stormed the campus to arrest demonstrators.

And my tour guide when I went to the Crocodile farm then "jokingly" warned us not to get to close to the Croc pens as "they liked human flesh these days"

That was "Thainess" in 1977.

Thailand has a lot of history in the last few decades, they prefer not to talk about, especially to tourists.

Thanks for posting, these events should not be allowed to be forgotten.

During the same period the military conducted campaigns against Thai communists in the northern provinces.

Until the early 90s there were memorials on some of the hills around Phitsanlok commemorating the executions of hundreds of people - their bodies burned by the military in oil drums.

There is a very dark side to modern Thai history, which is recorded in libraries and archives outside of Thailand, but not accessible within.

Contemporary accounts differ starkly with the official history.

Well said GH.

[GuestHouse]

During the same period the military conducted campaigns against Thai communists in the northern provinces.

Until the early 90s there were memorials on some of the hills around Phitsanlok commemorating the executions of hundreds of people - their bodies burned by the military in oil drums.

I'm not sure if you're making two points here, or one. Something's not right.

In the north, in 1972, around 200 communist insurgents were killed. That didn't involve oil drums AFAIK.

In the south in late 1972, 200 or so people were killed in Phattalung province (which is in the south. Phitsanulok is not) in the so-called "Red Drum Killings". (Some reports put the number as high as 3,000.) The individuals were beaten unconscious, then dumped into oil drums part filled with blazing gasoline and which had a metal grill part way down. Not a nice way to go.

The red drum killings where not restricted to the Phattalung province, nor where the numbers restricted to 200.

But yes, all part of the same sordid history.

[jayboy]

Just Loptr so far.

Are you denying it happened or is this a lame attempt at humor?

You're obviously a newbie if you haven't heard of Thaksin's extra-judicial murder of over 5000 suspected drug dealers when he was PM...

Actually the count was more like around 2,500 of which they figure at least 1,350 were innocent.

I've read the numbers and there seems to be a difference as to whether there were 2800 killed, plus another 1800 who were innocent or whether the 1800 were part of the 2800... Either way it makes the execution of the Indonesia nine seem tame by comparison...

Your comparison is absurd.However misguided and incompetent the war on drugs was ( and it was both) in Thailand its purpose was to tackle the misery and pain that drug addiction has brought to thousands of Thai families.It had enormous support in Thailand across society including the highest level.

There has never been any serious attempt to charge Thaksin even when those seeking to destroy him were casting around for excuses.The reason for this is that many of the ruling elite were supportive or implicated.Across the country at large there was massive popular support.

None of this makes the Thai drugs war other than morally repugnant and even worse, thoroughly ineffective.But spare us the crocodile tears hypocrisy.

[BudRight]

Don't forget. The United States executes people and later finds out they were innocent.

In the interest of fairness, it should be mentioned that most such executions happen in Texas, sentenced by Texas courts under Texas law.

Many US States do not have any death penalty - which is good because executing people is barbaric.

Edited May 2, 2015 by BudRight

[Swiss1960]

<strike>Smuggling drugs</strike> Selling alcohol alcohol <strike>IS</strike> IS NOT a crime against persons...

have you forgotten about the thousands of lives and families that get destroyed by the <strike>drugs smuggled</strike> LEGAL alcohol sold?

Of course you have.

have you forgotten about the thousands of crimes (including murders) that <strike>drug addicts</strike> ALCOHOLICS do on a daily basis in order to get the money for their addiction?

Of course you have.

1. the discussion is not about which drug is worse. it is about people smuggling a drug into or out of countries where the know they can get executed for it.
2. there are countries where alcohol is also illegal (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_alcohol_prohibition)
3. yes, alcoholics commit crimes, but they do not smuggle their drug in order to sell to others to get those addicted too, that is a totally different level of crime

[bannork]

In the very early years of Thaksin's tenure 3 prisoners were executed, one was a foreigner, Taiwanese,I think. There were filmed live walking to the execution chamber, at that time the condemned were shot. I believe they were executed because they continued to deal drugs behind bars.

[AyG]

In the very early years of Thaksin's tenure 3 prisoners were executed, one was a foreigner, Taiwanese,I think. There were filmed live walking to the execution chamber, at that time the condemned were shot. I believe they were executed because they continued to deal drugs behind bars.

Almost right. It was in 2001. Five prisoners - four for drug smuggling on a massive scale, one for murder - and there were two foreigner, one from Taiwan and one from Hong Kong. They were shot by machine gun. Now, of course, Thailand uses lethal injection (though hasn't done so yet AFAIK).