Call to hike minimum wage

[Praematura]

My Thai wife said the noodle shop she gets food at in the Central Festival food court in Pattaya is staffed solely by Burmeese. They have gotten her order wrong every time because they don't speak thai and hardly English

[AlphMichaels]

Just like the western world, Thailand has entered the age of "consumerism" which inevitably leads to personal debt. Getting the things your neighbor has because it's what everyone is doing. All points considered here, and many of them valid, when we promote through media outlets the things people want...., here it would be white skin..., the promise of better health...., fashion..., it all leads to a lost sense of priorities.

[eddie61]

Thailand needs to reduce the burden of its failed bureaucracy on the average business and citizen. If that happens, I imagine the wage rise would be acceptable.

I don't mean just the tax cost: just let the useless bureaucrats stare at windows until they retire, and don't hire any new ones. Simplify the laws so the buros are unnecessary. Enforce the few laws that are necessary.

The root of Thailand's problems is the heavy pyramidic architecture of society, bureaucracy, police force and......

That has resulted in so many other failures, including a failed legal system and education system.

Those at the bottom of the heap have to support an overweight structure at the top, and simply get crushed.

Edited May 1, 2015 by eddie61

[trogers]

The Thai economy is collapsing in part due to the prolonged elected government disruption, military coup, and Junta mismanagement that has cost the nation almost 10% GDP growth to date. Now the nation is entering deflation and devaluation of the baht. Calling for a minimum wage hike is not the solution but will only further damage the economy.

It would better serve the labor leaders to protest the Junta to move more quickly to disinvesting itself of rule government, reactivate the 2007 constitution, elect a new government, and normalize the economy.

Was it not the previous elected government who raised costs and debts with their populist policies that the Thais are now reeling from the pain?

[2fishin2]

You could be a worker on a fishing boat. The Phuket governor said they make 8000 baht a month and a bonus of 10000 - 15000 a month. [emoji4]

[toybits]

Raising the minimum wage doesn't mean these laborers will have more money saved by the end of the month. What is needed is to inculcate financial responsibility - which is difficult to do when you have to show others that you are "wealthy".

[wabothai]

Such a payhike (20%) at this time will be disasterous for thailand.

[fred Kubasa]

I think 500 B is a livable figure considering I, infrequently, spend that much for breakfast for 2. Increased productivity/quality/service plus reduction in staff should pay for that increase,

[fred Kubasa]

Number 2 from Fred " I should add that Henry Ford did pretty well with this concept in early 1900's thru to now !

[FangFerang]

Illegal lending is a subsidized crime in Thailand.

[Thaddeus]

I think 500 B is a livable figure considering I, infrequently, spend that much for breakfast for 2.

Two 99B fry-ups and a 302B tip?

[LuckyLew]

Sure just like last time when minimum wage was hiked to 300 a day

Goods and services went up shortly afterwards making the raise mute

Poor Thais are still poor

[Sydebolle]

In a landslide victory Yingluck got to power in 2011; six months before nobody even knew her.

She managed that by following her puppet master who suggested - quite rightly so:
- promise a minimum salary increase from THB 200 to THB 300 (paid by the private industry)
- promise a minimum monthly salary of THB 15'000 for BA graduates (paid for the private industry)

- promise a minimum of THB 15'000/ton of rice (paid by the tax payer = private industry)
- promise a tax reduction of THB 100'000/first-time-car-owners (paid by the tax payer = private industry)

The salaries went up and through the ceiling by upto 38% over the last four years; our customers would never have accepted such a price increase on our products. Since we had less profit our tax payments were smaller.

If they jack-up the minimum salary to THB 360 the increase would have been only a negligible 80% (eighty percent) without a single percent (zero percent) increase in efficiency, output, dedication or loyalty. Yingluck and her puppet master woke up the proverbial sleeping dog.

In closing, the Indonesians earn in a month what a Thai earns in a week, on Bali the hospitality industry wages start at THB 4'500/month; English spoken while much more dedicated to the work. No loan sharks, materialistic thinking above humanity and no "do as the Jones" though.

Time to pack up and move on, the writing is on the wall!

[Shiver]

I think it might have been better to let a free market decide (even though by their nature they are very volatile). Now that minimum wage is in place though, and loans taken out based on that, to back track might really mess up some lives. I certainly don't think raising minimum wage more is going to make anything better.

Putting concrete constraints around something like a market and not letting it 'off-gas' is only going to ensure a future crash.

[ezzra]

The sad, simple truth is that Thai workers in general are not worth even the money you pay them today,

if they were anywhere near their Chinese or Vietnamese counterpart that would be a big yes,

but they're not, not reliable, not loyal, not hard working, and not caring for the employer or their future

for that matter, and unless this attitude will change for the better, every raise you give them is for nought...

[Thai at Heart]

If you give people with structural debt problems 3000 baht, their debts will increase proportionally. Borrowing money, in most cases, is not about making ends meet, its about wrong priorities and unhealthy dose of PPP (piss poor planning).

I suspect that people trying to raise a family on $10 a day would disagree.

No amount of even the greatest planning stretches $10 to feed, clothe, house, educate and keep 4 people healthy when costs are being globalized.

Sure, some folks would just piss away the extra $2, as they would piss away $20 or even $200 per day. But for many, the extra $2 would represent quite an improvement in the quality of their lives.

People raising families of 4 on $10 dollar a day (do they really exist?) need social securities rather than a pay raise. Raising the minimum wages only leads to higher prices.

To pay social security some one has to pay tax. A concept I think u will find that every Thai business and individual is completely averse to.

[Thai at Heart]

1. So to solve debt, their idea is to pay more? instead of teaching to live within means or how to plan the money?

2. More benefits such as? How about some benefits for the businesses? Say employees actually working instead of playing on the phones or sleeping

3. What happened with the last wage hike? price hike

4. Since last wage hike, number of people in debt increased dramatically, why? because after being paid more, they spend more

5. Being an export country, what would happen to the prices? Price Increase, what would happen with the buyers? Go shopping elsewhere.

6. What skills minimum wage workers poses? answer is hardly any.It requires 5 people to do the job of one.

People who stay working with the same company for longer than 1 year and are useful do not get minimum wage and usually have pay rises every year, plus bonuses.

I think teaching people to live within 300 baht a day isn't much of a vote winner, whilst being incredibly patronising.

Politicians should be aiming for better schools and better jobs, a task for which they are 30 years too late in Thailand.

I fail to see the correlation between paying someone 300 baht a day and apparently they have more debt. You are peddling voodoo economics.

Don't pay people more because they can't handle it. Obviously the same policy should be applied to sports stars. Just look how they waste their cash.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[seajae]

what about taxes, they want the extra benefits but still do not want to pay taxes, this just shows how little they actually think. They go out and buy a big truck, new iphone for all the family, big tvs then complain they cant afford to live due to their repayments for all the loans they have taken out. The only way to help them is for them to be shown how to control their money, make them pay taxes so they can get benefits they want, pay them a higher wage provided they do better work to earn it etc. It is fine demanding all these things but they need to do something in return so that they actually earn it, pay taxes for the benefits, have a better work output for the higher wage etc but as we all know this will never happen, much easier to just demand everyone do what they want so they have a better lifestyle which will never happen with the attitude they have and how they think or should I say not think

[philw]

The sad, simple truth is that Thai workers in general are not worth even the money you pay them today,

if they were anywhere near their Chinese or Vietnamese counterpart that would be a big yes,

but they're not, not reliable, not loyal, not hard working, and not caring for the employer or their future

for that matter, and unless this attitude will change for the better, every raise you give them is for nought...

Wow, you must have a happy bunch of staff.

In my industry, we compete against Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, Sri Lankan, Indonesian, Kenyan and Indian companies, all competing in the same market.

I put my 110 Thai and Thai Yai staff against those companies all the time with the confidence that we can beat them on price, quality and timely delivery all the time.

The Thai bashing on here is just too much.

"not reliable, not loyal, not hard working, and not caring for the employer or their future"

That's quite an insulting generalisation.

Perhaps you are in the wrong place or business ?

[philw]

what about taxes, they want the extra benefits but still do not want to pay taxes, this just shows how little they actually think. They go out and buy a big truck, new iphone for all the family, big tvs then complain they cant afford to live due to their repayments for all the loans they have taken out. The only way to help them is for them to be shown how to control their money, make them pay taxes so they can get benefits they want, pay them a higher wage provided they do better work to earn it etc. It is fine demanding all these things but they need to do something in return so that they actually earn it, pay taxes for the benefits, have a better work output for the higher wage etc but as we all know this will never happen, much easier to just demand everyone do what they want so they have a better lifestyle which will never happen with the attitude they have and how they think or should I say not think

Love all the "They" references.

Who is they ??

Couldn't be them dark skinned folks, could it ?

[Thai at Heart]

what about taxes, they want the extra benefits but still do not want to pay taxes, this just shows how little they actually think. They go out and buy a big truck, new iphone for all the family, big tvs then complain they cant afford to live due to their repayments for all the loans they have taken out. The only way to help them is for them to be shown how to control their money, make them pay taxes so they can get benefits they want, pay them a higher wage provided they do better work to earn it etc. It is fine demanding all these things but they need to do something in return so that they actually earn it, pay taxes for the benefits, have a better work output for the higher wage etc but as we all know this will never happen, much easier to just demand everyone do what they want so they have a better lifestyle which will never happen with the attitude they have and how they think or should I say not think

You want minimum wage workers to pay taxes? Am a little curious that since there is little or no social security in Thailand, what benefits are you talking about. A wage is not a benefit.

Beyond that, tax evasion is massive in Thailand, it is actually the self employed and the family companies evading taxes not the minimum wage employees that fund these companies.

Your rant was indeed weird and I don't see why the minimum wage cannot be simply pegged to the rpi. End of issue.

[trogers]

what about taxes, they want the extra benefits but still do not want to pay taxes, this just shows how little they actually think. They go out and buy a big truck, new iphone for all the family, big tvs then complain they cant afford to live due to their repayments for all the loans they have taken out. The only way to help them is for them to be shown how to control their money, make them pay taxes so they can get benefits they want, pay them a higher wage provided they do better work to earn it etc. It is fine demanding all these things but they need to do something in return so that they actually earn it, pay taxes for the benefits, have a better work output for the higher wage etc but as we all know this will never happen, much easier to just demand everyone do what they want so they have a better lifestyle which will never happen with the attitude they have and how they think or should I say not think

You want minimum wage workers to pay taxes? Am a little curious that since there is little or no social security in Thailand, what benefits are you talking about. A wage is not a benefit.

Beyond that, tax evasion is massive in Thailand, it is actually the self employed and the family companies evading taxes not the minimum wage employees that fund these companies.

Your rant was indeed weird and I don't see why the minimum wage cannot be simply pegged to the rpi. End of issue.

Interesting. Singapore pegs it's minimum wages to a productivity index.

[micmichd]

Productivity seems to be on the rise in Thailand, so wages should rise too.

Maybe additional incentives to put money away for investments. Banks should grant credit to the self employed, so they don't have to take their valuables to pawn shops.

Edited May 1, 2015 by micmichd

[Enoon]

If you give people with structural debt problems 3000 baht, their debts will increase proportionally. Borrowing money, in most cases, is not about making ends meet, its about wrong priorities and unhealthy dose of PPP (piss poor planning).

I suspect that people trying to raise a family on $10 a day would disagree.

No amount of even the greatest planning stretches $10 to feed, clothe, house, educate and keep 4 people healthy when costs are being globalized.

Sure, some folks would just piss away the extra $2, as they would piss away $20 or even $200 per day. But for many, the extra $2 would represent quite an improvement in the quality of their lives.

People raising families of 4 on $10 dollar a day (do they really exist?) need social securities rather than a pay raise. Raising the minimum wages only leads to higher prices.

Yes they do, lots of them. 300baht = $9.10 (22.45hrs 01/05/2015 Thailand)

[Enoon]

Large companies who have a few thousand employees are looking at their calculators and spread sheets, and saying to themselves, "You know, we could do this much cheaper in the Philippines, or Vietnam. Ok, time to move."

Which is why Thailand should do more to create a growing, indigenous industrial/technological base, with an innovative, imaginative workforce, rather than whoring itself out to international capital.

[Enoon]

I think 500 B is a livable figure considering I, infrequently, spend that much for breakfast for 2.

Two 99B fry-ups and a 302B tip?

Obviously, unlike you, Kubasa doesn't breakfast at "Crazy Daves".

[Enoon]

The sad, simple truth is that Thai workers in general are not worth even the money you pay them today,

if they were anywhere near their Chinese or Vietnamese counterpart that would be a big yes,

but they're not, not reliable, not loyal, not hard working, and not caring for the employer or their future

for that matter, and unless this attitude will change for the better, every raise you give them is for nought...

Maybe you're not such a good employer as you think you are?

Being a good employer isn't all about raises.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Enoon

[Thai at Heart]

what about taxes, they want the extra benefits but still do not want to pay taxes, this just shows how little they actually think. They go out and buy a big truck, new iphone for all the family, big tvs then complain they cant afford to live due to their repayments for all the loans they have taken out. The only way to help them is for them to be shown how to control their money, make them pay taxes so they can get benefits they want, pay them a higher wage provided they do better work to earn it etc. It is fine demanding all these things but they need to do something in return so that they actually earn it, pay taxes for the benefits, have a better work output for the higher wage etc but as we all know this will never happen, much easier to just demand everyone do what they want so they have a better lifestyle which will never happen with the attitude they have and how they think or should I say not think

You want minimum wage workers to pay taxes? Am a little curious that since there is little or no social security in Thailand, what benefits are you talking about. A wage is not a benefit.

Beyond that, tax evasion is massive in Thailand, it is actually the self employed and the family companies evading taxes not the minimum wage employees that fund these companies.

Your rant was indeed weird and I don't see why the minimum wage cannot be simply pegged to the rpi. End of issue.

Interesting. Singapore pegs it's minimum wages to a productivity index.

Well, who would I be to say that is a bad idea. Bring it on. Just peg it to something that means the increase is automatic and fair as opposed to a committee half populated by trade and industry themselves.

[NongKhaiKid]

I sincerely feel sorry for the Thai people, especially anyone working for 300 baht/day. Prices everywhere are going up, especially food, so I just don't know how they survive. Here in Canada, one could say the minimum wage is very good compared to Thailand, but if you don't own your own house or condo fully, rent and heat costs alone could almost take away all your months wages. Many people here are in the same situation in that they owe a lot of money to the banks. On top of that Winters are very long and there is no beach or sunshine to cheer you up.

Thai minimum wage workers are no different to other countries minimum wage workers.

The only difference is a large number of minimum wage workers in other countries take a second job to earn more, while in Thailand, its hard to get them to do OT let alone work on day off with extra pay.

Anyone with friends who run a business will tell you how hard it is to hire and KEEP younger staff.

An acquaintance has a small office, pays a good salary, gives generous paid holidays and regularly treats the staff to a buffet or night out but he cannot keep staff and the attitude is mind boggling eg need a rest, work too hard and even no television to watch when nothing to do !