Minimum wage 'not enough for daily expenses'

[trogers]

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Been there done that it is hard yes so what I did was take on a second job and went to college part time for a few years My reward was after those few years was down to one job at three times I was making before. So living standard went up again and so did expenses So ended again a second job and saved every penny till enough to go on my own. Well back to one job but the hours it took to run it were long vacation Not a day for 20 years reward retired and well off now. It is about choices plain and simple.

And you are actually recommending others that they follow this miserable life (insofar as I understand this account)???

Nah...they should not strife to improve their own lives. Just sit and yell and protest for free handouts.

Perhaps it would be easier to get your point across trogers to advise on how, say a farm worker, can improve themselves.

Easiest way I suppose is to ignore the farm work and look for a job elsewhere. But to improve themselves, and not just move to another minimum wage job, in a country that is anally retentive about the requirement for degrees in even the lowest of positions where promotion is available, perhaps you could advise how a farm worker could achieve the necessary qualifications?

That would make your position and comments much clearer.

Edit: We often underestimate the education systems in our home countries, most specifically that everyone gets an education to some sort of level. IMHO, forget your home countries if you are going to comment on people 'improving' themselves. It is not reality in this country for the majority of minimum wage workers............

What skills are in shortage? There was a report projecting shortage of skilled workers by the hundreds of thousands.

But lives can only change with a heavy price - the need to study, learn, and work.

[micmichd]

Yes, education is a solution.

But the time spent in education also costs money, at least you need some credit for the time of education.

Unfortunately, banks accept only material goods as credit guarantees.

[trogers]

Yes, education is a solution.

But the time spent in education also costs money, at least you need some credit for the time of education.

Unfortunately, banks accept only material goods as credit guarantees.

How has the poor gone into debts? The question is not how to borrow as they are already doing it. The question is what they have been doing with the money.

I praise those who borrowed to invest, even if it is only on a food cart to sell noodles.

[ggold]

Interesting thread. I haven't met hardly any "poor" Thai people, although there are an increasing number of them. What they lack in economic means they more than make up for in there own sense of spiritual well being. You cannot compare the economic situation of any particular Thai person to a westerner, anymore than you can compare Thailand's climatic, economic, religious or political past to a country in Europe or with a western style "democracy" (what a joke).

Historically most Thai's wanted for nothing, it's only been the adoption of western values both in econmics and politics that's begun breaking the country's social fabric down, as everyone starts measuring themselves against a number called "money".

Three times a week I sit by the KFC at KSK and watch the world walk by. I am having a plain 10 baht cone. That is after my 45 baht meal at Tops Restaurant ( I bring my own water) We spend 90 bahts or less and my g/f gets to enjoy a free Soy milk (You have to spend over 70 bahts) Plump well dressed teenagers on their IPhones talking to somebody somewhere and not for free I am sure.. I watch them in the mobile shops crowding around the tables full of the latest bestest. Even though they have a good mobile they want the latest. I use a cheap Samsung that I found by the side of the road complete with charger while out biking. I then trundle home to my 4,000 baht a month condo with a pool and in walking distance of everything except immigration of course. Tuesday and Thursday we push bike over to the salad bar and get salad for 2 plus fruit for the evening for around a 100 baht. I do not own a car(hassle to own and operate here) or motorbike(seen to many walking wounded over my time here). Thankfully my bar days are over. I watch my bahts on the spending side and watch them grow on the saving side(for my young g/f after I am gone) I have done all the exciting things in life and do not see a need to do more. Yes some may say my life is boring but at 77 which may be so but its time for reflections and I can now go back in time and watch all those good old movies that I have seen before but have forgotten. These are free. And well I spend a lot of time on TV trying to garner more knowledge as I believe your never to old to learn. Have to use the old grey matter while it is still functioning. Banks would go broke if they were depending on me for their existence.

I'd be more likely to aspire to the peace you have found from your own outlook than the material objects you deny yourself. You've discovered the real beauty of Thailand, you can live freely, at very little cost because this far government haven't yet got their claws into the whole population, pretty much thanks to Generations of powerful yet generous and kind monarchs....but big government, it's coming and I expect you'll be glad to not have to witness the deterioration of Thailand into a "first world" country.

I don't see Thailand becoming a first world country, If they got their act together and improved education and stopped the blatant corruption they might have a shot at it in about 50 years. It would require a complete change in how things are done here.

As it is they will be left behind by other Asean countries once Asean is fully implemented.

[impulse]

I don't see Thailand becoming a first world country, If they got their act together and improved education and stopped the blatant corruption they might have a shot at it in about 50 years. It would require a complete change in how things are done here.

As it is they will be left behind by other Asean countries once Asean is fully implemented.

Or, they could have a strong man take power, drag the country kicking and screaming out of their kleptocracy, and attain first world status in a decade.

Kind of like Singapore, S Korea and Taiwan did...

[dageurreotype]

The whole point is that without extra productivity we get the same thing we got when foolish YL increased the minimum wage by 100%. The result is known to those who lived here at the time. All prices shot up and the people with minimum wage still could not cover their daily expenses. So just increasing the salary won't work, because everything will become more expensive right away.

The point about people having cars and bikes is a good one I have seen the same quite often here in Thailand. No money to drive the car but owning a car and getting killed by the monthly payments.

Ha! What absolute rubbish. Prices are always 'shooting up' - 'naman paerng' is the usual. I noticed no difference other than the Thai businessman recruiting ever more low wage immigrants. You're a Daily Mail reader (with a VPN ) right?

[trogers]

The whole point is that without extra productivity we get the same thing we got when foolish YL increased the minimum wage by 100%. The result is known to those who lived here at the time. All prices shot up and the people with minimum wage still could not cover their daily expenses. So just increasing the salary won't work, because everything will become more expensive right away.

The point about people having cars and bikes is a good one I have seen the same quite often here in Thailand. No money to drive the car but owning a car and getting killed by the monthly payments.

Ha! What absolute rubbish. Prices are always 'shooting up' - 'naman paerng' is the usual. I noticed no difference other than the Thai businessman recruiting ever more low wage immigrants. You're a Daily Mail reader (with a VPN ) right?

With one's own countrymen at supervision and management level...

Isn't this happening in all FDIs?

[rayongchelsea]

If i recall correctly last minimum wage was not enough, so it was hiked to 300, now its also not enough.

So once its hiked again, again it will not be enough.

Said it before and will say it again, stay in the same job for longer than 3 months, do little more than play on the phone and laze around, and you will not be getting minimum wage.

As for usual willyumii drivel, if those work conditions are not suitable, can always either go to labor department or change jobs.

Not to mention minimum wage workers also get free meal and out of 12 hours at work, will be lucky to actually work for half that.

Farmers get to steal take home lots of products and work for few month a year if that.

PS. May be if they stopped drinking 100 baht worth of thai whisky on nightly basis, they might have an extra 100 to spend on food

Just what are you accusing the farmers of stealing?

A bag of rice every few months when it is ready for harvest?

Some unprocessed tapioca that can not be eaten?

Or maybe a few stalks of unprocessed sugar cane?

These are the crops grown here and you can see they are not something anyone would want to "steal".

Do you know anything about farming in Thailand?

It must be nice to know so much and still not care about anyone but yourself.

P.S. a bottle of whiskey Thai is only 50 baht!

and bag of rice is not stealing?

Do you posses any common sense at all?

You should ask yourself if you do you posses a sort of common sense at all? My parents in law are rice farmers and they're not thieves.

Once the rice harvest is over, the majority pick chilies for others, if they don't have land to grow them. They earn 2- 3 baht for one kg.

Do you have an idea how long that takes to do that in the boiling sun?

Their life's really miserable. So the guy's really asking you a sincere question: "How much do you now about farming in Thailand?"

Give you parents in law more money stop being cheap[

Agree. If it's such an important issue to the foreigners on here , regarding how tough life is for the families ( farmers) they have married into, just elevate that problem by assisting more financially.

[trogers]

If i recall correctly last minimum wage was not enough, so it was hiked to 300, now its also not enough.

So once its hiked again, again it will not be enough.

Said it before and will say it again, stay in the same job for longer than 3 months, do little more than play on the phone and laze around, and you will not be getting minimum wage.

As for usual willyumii drivel, if those work conditions are not suitable, can always either go to labor department or change jobs.

Not to mention minimum wage workers also get free meal and out of 12 hours at work, will be lucky to actually work for half that.

Farmers get to steal take home lots of products and work for few month a year if that.

PS. May be if they stopped drinking 100 baht worth of thai whisky on nightly basis, they might have an extra 100 to spend on food

Just what are you accusing the farmers of stealing?

A bag of rice every few months when it is ready for harvest?

Some unprocessed tapioca that can not be eaten?

Or maybe a few stalks of unprocessed sugar cane?

These are the crops grown here and you can see they are not something anyone would want to "steal".

Do you know anything about farming in Thailand?

It must be nice to know so much and still not care about anyone but yourself.

P.S. a bottle of whiskey Thai is only 50 baht!

and bag of rice is not stealing?

Do you posses any common sense at all?

You should ask yourself if you do you posses a sort of common sense at all? My parents in law are rice farmers and they're not thieves.

Once the rice harvest is over, the majority pick chilies for others, if they don't have land to grow them. They earn 2- 3 baht for one kg.

Do you have an idea how long that takes to do that in the boiling sun?

Their life's really miserable. So the guy's really asking you a sincere question: "How much do you now about farming in Thailand?"

Give you parents in law more money stop being cheap[

Agree. If it's such an important issue to the foreigners on here , regarding how tough life is for the families ( farmers) they have married into, just elevate that problem by assisting more financially.

Only question - can you save someone from the bottomless pit, or get pull into it as well?

[rayongchelsea]

If i recall correctly last minimum wage was not enough, so it was hiked to 300, now its also not enough.

So once its hiked again, again it will not be enough.

Said it before and will say it again, stay in the same job for longer than 3 months, do little more than play on the phone and laze around, and you will not be getting minimum wage.

As for usual willyumii drivel, if those work conditions are not suitable, can always either go to labor department or change jobs.

Not to mention minimum wage workers also get free meal and out of 12 hours at work, will be lucky to actually work for half that.

Farmers get to steal take home lots of products and work for few month a year if that.

PS. May be if they stopped drinking 100 baht worth of thai whisky on nightly basis, they might have an extra 100 to spend on food

Just what are you accusing the farmers of stealing?

A bag of rice every few months when it is ready for harvest?

Some unprocessed tapioca that can not be eaten?

Or maybe a few stalks of unprocessed sugar cane?

These are the crops grown here and you can see they are not something anyone would want to "steal".

Do you know anything about farming in Thailand?

It must be nice to know so much and still not care about anyone but yourself.

P.S. a bottle of whiskey Thai is only 50 baht!

and bag of rice is not stealing?

Do you posses any common sense at all?

You should ask yourself if you do you posses a sort of common sense at all? My parents in law are rice farmers and they're not thieves.

Once the rice harvest is over, the majority pick chilies for others, if they don't have land to grow them. They earn 2- 3 baht for one kg.

Do you have an idea how long that takes to do that in the boiling sun?

Their life's really miserable. So the guy's really asking you a sincere question: "How much do you now about farming in Thailand?"

Give you parents in law more money stop being cheap[

Agree. If it's such an important issue to the foreigners on here , regarding how tough life is for the families ( farmers) they have married into, just elevate that problem by assisting more financially.

Only question - can you save someone from the bottomless pit, or get pull into it as well?

That's exactly the point. They know it's as much about poor financial behavior.

Having said that in all the years I have lived here it has always amazed me how the rich seem to despise the poor..so things are stacked against those who would like to better themselves, and that is not just those in the rural areas.

[sambum]

The whole point is that without extra productivity we get the same thing we got when foolish YL increased the minimum wage by 100%. The result is known to those who lived here at the time. All prices shot up and the people with minimum wage still could not cover their daily expenses. So just increasing the salary won't work, because everything will become more expensive right away.

The point about people having cars and bikes is a good one I have seen the same quite often here in Thailand. No money to drive the car but owning a car and getting killed by the monthly payments.

So does the same thing not happen in your country? "Keeping up with the Jones'"? We have a saying in our town - "Flash house, flash car but nowt in t' fridge!"

The problem is not just a Thai problem. When I was at (Grammar) school in the UK, 3 people in my year (about 120 pupils) went on to University - not just because the remainder didn't have the qualifications, but also, their parents couldn't afford to support them. Nowadays, it is probably 3 people that do not go to University, and the remainder do! The pass rate for 'O' levels and 'A' levels is astoundingly high - well not "astoundingly" high - the % required for a pass has been fairly dramatically reduced. The end result is that more people go to University, and get degrees in subjects that they choose because of the high pass rate and low level of difficulty, not one that will better qualify them for a position with prospects, and when they leave University, they are surprised when they can't get a job in line with their ambitions. The country is saturated with people with degrees in "Media Studies" or something similar - a member of my own family has a degree in English and can't even spell properly! ("You don't need to be able to spell properly these days - "Spellcheck" does it all for you"!)

Unfortunately, one of the big problems facing them, and whichever Government is in charge, is finding jobs for them all, and I know of many instances where graduates have been unable to get a decent job for years, because a degree in "Media Studies" isn't much use to an employer who wants someone to "get their hands dirty" and actually work, rather than talk about it! So you end up with a nation bursting at the seams of supposedly highly intelligent graduates who are swelling the unemployment figures and taking full advantage of the Benefits System. along with the legal and illegal immigrants who can't/won't get a job who are also taking full advantage of the Benefits System.

Another end result of this strategy is that while these students are having the time of their lives at Uni, they are getting used to having the latest gadgets and computers and phones, (Keeping up with the Jones' syndrome again!) and when they leave with their degree and high hopes, they still want to have access to the same expensive paraphernalia that they have been accustomed to, but now they have to pay for it themselves. The easy answer is as you say in the last 2 words of your post - monthly payments.

So getting back on topic, the Thai problem is that people want a decent wage for a day's work. If they don't work, they don't get paid. In more "civilised" countries, if you don't work, the Government will "pay" you.

So you tell me - which is the right system?

Edited May 3, 2015 by sambum

[ggold]

I don't see Thailand becoming a first world country, If they got their act together and improved education and stopped the blatant corruption they might have a shot at it in about 50 years. It would require a complete change in how things are done here.

As it is they will be left behind by other Asean countries once Asean is fully implemented.

Or, they could have a strong man take power, drag the country kicking and screaming out of their kleptocracy, and attain first world status in a decade.

Kind of like Singapore, S Korea and Taiwan did...

I don't think that person has been born yet! Certainly none of those that came before had the sort leadership required. And the current leadership, well what ever intentions he has they don't seem to be what is required. If it happens it needs to happen over a short time frame clear out the bad asap. and rebuild.

As it is corrupt politicians will be standing for election once it is announced. In other words a lot of talk but no action. Thainess!

[ggold]

You have been here a while.. when the last time they increased the minimum wage with 100% it went up for everyone because those that were making more wanted more too. So in the end it all got more expensive and they did not win a thing.

No raise without more productivity its just not doable.

Foolish like a fox. Minimum wage was raised, placating the masses (Win).

But the real benefit accrued to the elite who could then raise their prices (and increase their profits) with impunity (Post #222). And since the cost of labor is only a small portion of the cost of a product, the elite saw massive increases in their profits (double win).

Of course, small business owners took it on the chin, but what country in the world has policies meant to benefit them?

Actually the minimum wage was raised as a vote winning bribe of a certain party. Not because the masses needed placating!

Workers will always expect more pay regardless. But the real question is, has the standard of living improved. I think it safe to say that even in Thailand living standards have improved. It is Peoples spending habits that count. Preferring the latest gadgets or satellite TV. rather than putting food on the table or saving.

Not saying people aren't entitled to these things but people need to learn to live within their means.

[samuibruno]

when i first came to thailand most of the labour on construction sites were thai

now more than half are burmese /cambodian/lao

theres just as much construction now as before so what happened to all those thai labourers?

we pay people what they are worth

thailand in so many ways are totally inefficient

as an example

why is it that 2 farang can do a better and faster job than 6 thais

because in many western countries labour is the highest cost on many levels so westerers learn to work fast and efficient to make a living

labour costs are not a high cost of many jobs here , hence 6 people turn up to simply repair your aircon [for example ]

hence very little work ethic in the labour sector in thailand

thailand needs to become efficient to compete in the wider market

giving people more basic wages wont change most work ethics

only education will work and thats a long term scenario

[sirineou]

when i first came to thailand most of the labour on construction sites were thai

now more than half are burmese /cambodian/lao

theres just as much construction now as before so what happened to all those thai labourers?

we pay people what they are worth

thailand in so many ways are totally inefficient

as an example

why is it that 2 farang can do a better and faster job than 6 thais

because in many western countries labour is the highest cost on many levels so westerers learn to work fast and efficient to make a living

labour costs are not a high cost of many jobs here , hence 6 people turn up to simply repair your aircon [for example ]

hence very little work ethic in the labour sector in thailand

thailand needs to become efficient to compete in the wider market

giving people more basic wages wont change most work ethics

only education will work and thats a long term scenario

in an other word

we pretend to pay them and they pretend to work

[SoilSpoil]

Solution:

Import all the oil and raw materials you can get your hands on, and then print let's say 10 trillion baht (QE), and give every Thai an equal share (about 150k).

That will solve the problem of household debt and lower the value of the baht. Good for exports and good for the TV foreigners who've got their cash stashed away abroad. The US and now Europe are doing the same, so why not here? Also raise all wages by 20%, introduce a proper income tax system (for all income levels) and use that tax money for a social security network. Become a bit of a 'nanny state'.

[trogers]

Solution:

Import all the oil and raw materials you can get your hands on, and then print let's say 10 trillion baht (QE), and give every Thai an equal share (about 150k).

That will solve the problem of household debt and lower the value of the baht. Good for exports and good for the TV foreigners who've got their cash stashed away abroad. The US and now Europe are doing the same, so why not here? Also raise all wages by 20%, introduce a proper income tax system (for all income levels) and use that tax money for a social security network. Become a bit of a 'nanny state'.

Why not 100 trillion? Have you not read about the past financial crisis of Argentina?

[Thai at Heart]

when i first came to thailand most of the labour on construction sites were thai

now more than half are burmese /cambodian/lao

theres just as much construction now as before so what happened to all those thai labourers?

we pay people what they are worth

thailand in so many ways are totally inefficient

as an example

why is it that 2 farang can do a better and faster job than 6 thais

because in many western countries labour is the highest cost on many levels so westerers learn to work fast and efficient to make a living

labour costs are not a high cost of many jobs here , hence 6 people turn up to simply repair your aircon [for example ]

hence very little work ethic in the labour sector in thailand

thailand needs to become efficient to compete in the wider market

giving people more basic wages wont change most work ethics

only education will work and thats a long term scenario

As long as companies can import as many foreign laborers as they like at minimum wage, there is no pressure on the wages to increase.

Minimum should be a limit not a target

[blazes]

when i first came to thailand most of the labour on construction sites were thai

now more than half are burmese /cambodian/lao

theres just as much construction now as before so what happened to all those thai labourers?

we pay people what they are worth

thailand in so many ways are totally inefficient

as an example

why is it that 2 farang can do a better and faster job than 6 thais

because in many western countries labour is the highest cost on many levels so westerers learn to work fast and efficient to make a living

labour costs are not a high cost of many jobs here , hence 6 people turn up to simply repair your aircon [for example ]

hence very little work ethic in the labour sector in thailand

thailand needs to become efficient to compete in the wider market

giving people more basic wages wont change most work ethics

only education will work and thats a long term scenario

As long as companies can import as many foreign laborers as they like at minimum wage, there is no pressure on the wages to increase.

Minimum should be a limit not a target

Correct, and the situation is exactly the same in the UK. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Romania, Bulgaria, Poland and other countries (legal, unlike in Thailand with the illegals from Myanmar etc) come into UK and will do jobs for less than minimum wage.

This makes it impossible for native British unskilled labour to find work or to do work at a living wage.

God alone knows how the immigrants mentioned manage to live on their slave wages....but we can easily assume that business-owners are laughing all the way to the bank.

Only UKIP seems to be campaigning with this race-to-the-bottom in wages as a part of their platform.

[Johpa]

thailand needs to become efficient to compete in the wider market

Efficiency eventually leads to its own immense problems such as high unemployment and high income inequality. High income inequality leads to a host of social ills. Read the book "The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better" for the statistical details.

Efficiency is but a small part of Thailand's problems that prevent it from becoming more competitive globally. But other issues, such as corruption, the poor public education system, and the continuing outflow of profits that are not reinvested in, say education and infrastructure, are the far more pressing issues that the Kingdom must confront to become competitive.

[sambum]

when i first came to thailand most of the labour on construction sites were thai

now more than half are burmese /cambodian/lao

theres just as much construction now as before so what happened to all those thai labourers?

we pay people what they are worth

thailand in so many ways are totally inefficient

as an example

why is it that 2 farang can do a better and faster job than 6 thais

because in many western countries labour is the highest cost on many levels so westerers learn to work fast and efficient to make a living

labour costs are not a high cost of many jobs here , hence 6 people turn up to simply repair your aircon [for example ]

hence very little work ethic in the labour sector in thailand

thailand needs to become efficient to compete in the wider market

giving people more basic wages wont change most work ethics

only education will work and thats a long term scenario

As long as companies can import as many foreign laborers as they like at minimum wage, there is no pressure on the wages to increase.

Minimum should be a limit not a target

Correct, and the situation is exactly the same in the UK. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Romania, Bulgaria, Poland and other countries (legal, unlike in Thailand with the illegals from Myanmar etc) come into UK and will do jobs for less than minimum wage.

This makes it impossible for native British unskilled labour to find work or to do work at a living wage.

God alone knows how the immigrants mentioned manage to live on their slave wages....but we can easily assume that business-owners are laughing all the way to the bank.

Only UKIP seems to be campaigning with this race-to-the-bottom in wages as a part of their platform.

"God alone knows how the immigrants mentioned manage to live on their slave wages.."

I would suggest that many of the immigrants that you are talking about are in a far better position in the UK than in their own countries. I know this for a fact as I once had 3 tenants from Eastern Europe rent my house (2 sisters one of which had a boyfriend), and they were all employed working on the production line at a national tyre producing company who had a factory in our area. The sister without the boyfriend had been a detective sergeant in the police force, the other sister had been working as a receptionist in a lawyer's office. I am unsure as to the previous occupation of the boyfriend, but they were all adamant that they were much better off working in the UK than they were "at home". A similar situation involved car mechanics from Poland - they were far better off financially in the UK than in Poland, but apparently the situation has now been reversed as Poland were running out of qualified car mechanics, and had to increase their wages substantially, which in turn led to the aforementioned Poles doing an about turn and returning to Poland.

The immigrants that you are talking about are probably illegals, and yes they do get exploited, but as I said earlier, probably they are better off in the UK than their own countries, and if they cannot find work, then the good old British Government will make sure that they are amply catered for.

[AloisAmrein]

_{Empty promises of Prayuth and his yellowshirt fellows. In fact, he and his fellows do all that the rich get richer and poor remain poor. That's why he has taken power by coup, he and and the aristocracy are afraid of democracy which could change the things. Thailand today is not a leading nation, but 200 years back in history, like France before the Revolution in 1791, when the French trow away the monarchy.}

[Thai at Heart]

when i first came to thailand most of the labour on construction sites were thai

now more than half are burmese /cambodian/lao

theres just as much construction now as before so what happened to all those thai labourers?

we pay people what they are worth

thailand in so many ways are totally inefficient

as an example

why is it that 2 farang can do a better and faster job than 6 thais

because in many western countries labour is the highest cost on many levels so westerers learn to work fast and efficient to make a living

labour costs are not a high cost of many jobs here , hence 6 people turn up to simply repair your aircon [for example ]

hence very little work ethic in the labour sector in thailand

thailand needs to become efficient to compete in the wider market

giving people more basic wages wont change most work ethics

only education will work and thats a long term scenario

As long as companies can import as many foreign laborers as they like at minimum wage, there is no pressure on the wages to increase.

Minimum should be a limit not a target

Correct, and the situation is exactly the same in the UK. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Romania, Bulgaria, Poland and other countries (legal, unlike in Thailand with the illegals from Myanmar etc) come into UK and will do jobs for less than minimum wage.

This makes it impossible for native British unskilled labour to find work or to do work at a living wage.

God alone knows how the immigrants mentioned manage to live on their slave wages....but we can easily assume that business-owners are laughing all the way to the bank.

Only UKIP seems to be campaigning with this race-to-the-bottom in wages as a part of their platform.

"God alone knows how the immigrants mentioned manage to live on their slave wages.."

I would suggest that many of the immigrants that you are talking about are in a far better position in the UK than in their own countries. I know this for a fact as I once had 3 tenants from Eastern Europe rent my house (2 sisters one of which had a boyfriend), and they were all employed working on the production line at a national tyre producing company who had a factory in our area. The sister without the boyfriend had been a detective sergeant in the police force, the other sister had been working as a receptionist in a lawyer's office. I am unsure as to the previous occupation of the boyfriend, but they were all adamant that they were much better off working in the UK than they were "at home". A similar situation involved car mechanics from Poland - they were far better off financially in the UK than in Poland, but apparently the situation has now been reversed as Poland were running out of qualified car mechanics, and had to increase their wages substantially, which in turn led to the aforementioned Poles doing an about turn and returning to Poland.

The immigrants that you are talking about are probably illegals, and yes they do get exploited, but as I said earlier, probably they are better off in the UK than their own countries, and if they cannot find work, then the good old British Government will make sure that they are amply catered for.

Yes, the idea is great, but reality is it has simply served to keep wages at the bottom end of the market stagnant to the benefit of employers.

I am working in London right now and wages are rock bottom with them being taken up by immigrants. If the point of the British economy is to serve British people, this is a market failure of massive proportion which no one acknowledges.

The wages would have risen to attract workers but instead the supply is endless for low end workers. Very wrong in my opinion.

[sirineou]

Minimum should be a limit not a target

Correct, and the situation is exactly the same in the UK. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Romania, Bulgaria, Poland and other countries (legal, unlike in Thailand with the illegals from Myanmar etc) come into UK and will do jobs for less than minimum wage.

This makes it impossible for native British unskilled labour to find work or to do work at a living wage.

God alone knows how the immigrants mentioned manage to live on their slave wages....but we can easily assume that business-owners are laughing all the way to the bank.

Only UKIP seems to be campaigning with this race-to-the-bottom in wages as a part of their platform.

"God alone knows how the immigrants mentioned manage to live on their slave wages.."

I would suggest that many of the immigrants that you are talking about are in a far better position in the UK than in their own countries. I know this for a fact as I once had 3 tenants from Eastern Europe rent my house (2 sisters one of which had a boyfriend), and they were all employed working on the production line at a national tyre producing company who had a factory in our area. The sister without the boyfriend had been a detective sergeant in the police force, the other sister had been working as a receptionist in a lawyer's office. I am unsure as to the previous occupation of the boyfriend, but they were all adamant that they were much better off working in the UK than they were "at home". A similar situation involved car mechanics from Poland - they were far better off financially in the UK than in Poland, but apparently the situation has now been reversed as Poland were running out of qualified car mechanics, and had to increase their wages substantially, which in turn led to the aforementioned Poles doing an about turn and returning to Poland.

The immigrants that you are talking about are probably illegals, and yes they do get exploited, but as I said earlier, probably they are better off in the UK than their own countries, and if they cannot find work, then the good old British Government will make sure that they are amply catered for.

Yes, the idea is great, but reality is it has simply served to keep wages at the bottom end of the market stagnant to the benefit of employers.

I am working in London right now and wages are rock bottom with them being taken up by immigrants. If the point of the British economy is to serve British people, this is a market failure of massive proportion which no one acknowledges.

The wages would have risen to attract workers but instead the supply is endless for low end workers. Very wrong in my opinion.

Same in the US

The unfortunate situation is that many Employers do not want to use this illegal labor but if they want to stay competitive with those who do, many times they have to.

it is a vicious cycle resulting in a race to the bottom

removed posts to allow reply

[gezginrocker]

Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

This is such a horrible and arrogant way of thinking. And I'm shocked that it has the most likes at this topic. Wait, this is Thaivisa, home of the ignorant and arrogant, so I'm not really shocked.

Yeah, like it's just too easy to acquire the skills and climb the wage ladder, keep on dreaming. And blaming someone because he got married and had children?

Again, it is just sick to blame the common working man and woman. The government should be blamed, because they don't provide better minimum wages and social security.

The main factor for the huge sex industry is low wages and lack of social security. If I was a Thai who had to take care of his/her elderly parents who have no social security, instead of working at 7-11 for minimum wage, I'd have probably become a sex worker as well.

For many people Thailand is synonymous with sex tourism. If government really wants to improve this bad image, they should start by increasing minimum wage and provide social security for retired people.

Edited May 3, 2015 by gezginrocker

[trogers]

Minimum should be a limit not a target

Correct, and the situation is exactly the same in the UK. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Romania, Bulgaria, Poland and other countries (legal, unlike in Thailand with the illegals from Myanmar etc) come into UK and will do jobs for less than minimum wage.

This makes it impossible for native British unskilled labour to find work or to do work at a living wage.

God alone knows how the immigrants mentioned manage to live on their slave wages....but we can easily assume that business-owners are laughing all the way to the bank.

Only UKIP seems to be campaigning with this race-to-the-bottom in wages as a part of their platform.

"God alone knows how the immigrants mentioned manage to live on their slave wages.."

I would suggest that many of the immigrants that you are talking about are in a far better position in the UK than in their own countries. I know this for a fact as I once had 3 tenants from Eastern Europe rent my house (2 sisters one of which had a boyfriend), and they were all employed working on the production line at a national tyre producing company who had a factory in our area. The sister without the boyfriend had been a detective sergeant in the police force, the other sister had been working as a receptionist in a lawyer's office. I am unsure as to the previous occupation of the boyfriend, but they were all adamant that they were much better off working in the UK than they were "at home". A similar situation involved car mechanics from Poland - they were far better off financially in the UK than in Poland, but apparently the situation has now been reversed as Poland were running out of qualified car mechanics, and had to increase their wages substantially, which in turn led to the aforementioned Poles doing an about turn and returning to Poland.

The immigrants that you are talking about are probably illegals, and yes they do get exploited, but as I said earlier, probably they are better off in the UK than their own countries, and if they cannot find work, then the good old British Government will make sure that they are amply catered for.

Yes, the idea is great, but reality is it has simply served to keep wages at the bottom end of the market stagnant to the benefit of employers.

I am working in London right now and wages are rock bottom with them being taken up by immigrants. If the point of the British economy is to serve British people, this is a market failure of massive proportion which no one acknowledges.

The wages would have risen to attract workers but instead the supply is endless for low end workers. Very wrong in my opinion.

Same in the US

The unfortunate situation is that many Employers do not want to use this illegal labor but if they want to stay competitive with those who do, many times they have to.

it is a vicious cycle resulting in a race to the bottom

removed posts to allow reply

The alternative is to follow Japan, a country that limits immigrants. See how your expectations would work in a country of aging population and negative population growth.

[trogers]

Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

This is such a horrible and arrogant way of thinking. And I'm shocked that it has the most likes at this topic. Wait, this is Thaivisa, home of the ignorant and arrogant, so I'm not really shocked.

Yeah, like it's just too easy to acquire the skills and climb the wage ladder, keep on dreaming. And blaming someone because he got married and had children?

Again, it is just sick to blame the common working man and woman. The government should be blamed, because they don't provide better minimum wages and social security.

The main factor for the huge sex industry is low wages and lack of social security. If I was a Thai who had to take care of his/her elderly parents who have no social security, instead of working at 7-11 for minimum wage, I'd have probably become a sex worker as well.

For many people Thailand is synonymous with sex tourism. If government really wants to improve this bad image, they should start by increasing minimum wage and provide social security for retired people.

And you think increasing the minimum wage and having a social security net would kill off the sex industry? Hmm...now I wonder why Japan has such a marvelous sex industry, though, a highly priced one...

[moobie]

I read up to page 3 and (apologies) gave up. Has anyone established at what level a minimum wage would be set at as comparable with their own country?

[trogers]

Same old story. I earn minimum wages. I have wife and children to feed. Cost of living is too high to support my wife and kids on minimum wages.

Yes we all know. But why are you still earning minimum wages? Why do you not aquire more knowledge or skill to be productive and climb the wage ladder?

And why do you get married and have children when you can barely support just yourself?

Should society be responsible for you and your foolish acts?

This is such a horrible and arrogant way of thinking. And I'm shocked that it has the most likes at this topic. Wait, this is Thaivisa, home of the ignorant and arrogant, so I'm not really shocked.

Yeah, like it's just too easy to acquire the skills and climb the wage ladder, keep on dreaming. And blaming someone because he got married and had children?

Again, it is just sick to blame the common working man and woman. The government should be blamed, because they don't provide better minimum wages and social security.

The main factor for the huge sex industry is low wages and lack of social security. If I was a Thai who had to take care of his/her elderly parents who have no social security, instead of working at 7-11 for minimum wage, I'd have probably become a sex worker as well.

For many people Thailand is synonymous with sex tourism. If government really wants to improve this bad image, they should start by increasing minimum wage and provide social security for retired people.

And you think increasing the minimum wage and having a social security net would kill off the sex industry? Hmm...now I wonder why Japan has such a marvelous sex industry, though, a highly priced one...

I would have sang your song when I first came to live in Thailand in 1983. Girls were sold into the sex industry by their parents out of poverty.

But society has evolved. Now the girls are not sold, but are choosing to be in it due to laziness and irresponsibility of the fathers of their children, and parents their sons.

Should society bail out such acts of laziness and irresponsibility or should policies be raised to address such acts?

[sirineou]

Yes, the idea is great, but reality is it has simply served to keep wages at the bottom end of the market stagnant to the benefit of employers.

I am working in London right now and wages are rock bottom with them being taken up by immigrants. If the point of the British economy is to serve British people, this is a market failure of massive proportion which no one acknowledges.

The wages would have risen to attract workers but instead the supply is endless for low end workers. Very wrong in my opinion.

Same in the US

The unfortunate situation is that many Employers do not want to use this illegal labor but if they want to stay competitive with those who do, many times they have to.

it is a vicious cycle resulting in a race to the bottom

removed posts to allow reply

The alternative is to follow Japan, a country that limits immigrants. See how your expectations would work in a country of aging population and negative population growth.

My reply was not in reference to immigration,but rather to illegal immigration

legal immigration is done in an orderly fashion, with quotas, medical screening, etc ,and as you said can address certain deficiencies in a society

The problem is illegal immigration, it has no safeguards for the host society or for the immigrants

PS: the minimum wage should be adjusted yearly to keep pace with inflation,

Edited May 3, 2015 by sirineou