Police reform cannot be put off any longer

[Suffinator]

THE REFORM COUNCIL MUST DEAL WITH THE ISSUES OF TRANSPARENCY AND POLITICAL INTERFERENCE

Starts at the top but so far Prayut has refused to be transparent about his excessive wealth.

Unable to decide whether to separate police investigative work from the Royal Thai Police Office (RTPO), the National Reform Council (NRC) has decided to put off voting on this key issue.

Yeah because it's almost impossible to find anyone honest and not corrupt in either organisation.

Here's the problem ... the country is corrupt to the core. What Thailand needs is someone to take over or better yet voted in that A) isn't corrupt and; cannot be corrupted. If Prayut thinks he IS that person then he needs to step up and adhere to complete transparency ... that alas is unlikely to ever happen and the wheels of corruption will continue to turn and eventually break this country.

Try the Singapore solution ... they did it. The trouble is right now they can't really start making arrests because everyone will start pointing the finger and someone else. They've dug themselves a hole and once things get real bad the people will start to demand more.

[smutcakes]

THE REFORM COUNCIL MUST DEAL WITH THE ISSUES OF TRANSPARENCY AND POLITICAL INTERFERENCE

Starts at the top but so far Prayut has refused to be transparent about his excessive wealth.

Unable to decide whether to separate police investigative work from the Royal Thai Police Office (RTPO), the National Reform Council (NRC) has decided to put off voting on this key issue.

Yeah because it's almost impossible to find anyone honest and not corrupt in either organisation.

Here's the problem ... the country is corrupt to the core. What Thailand needs is someone to take over or better yet voted in that A) isn't corrupt and; cannot be corrupted. If Prayut thinks he IS that person then he needs to step up and adhere to complete transparency ... that alas is unlikely to ever happen and the wheels of corruption will continue to turn and eventually break this country.

Try the Singapore solution ... they did it. The trouble is right now they can't really start making arrests because everyone will start pointing the finger and someone else. They've dug themselves a hole and once things get real bad the people will start to demand more.

That seems to be half the bloody problem, there's no bugger clean enough to cast the first stone!!!

[Time Traveller]

I guess "reform" will mean another round of more foreigners being set up on sting operations on the streets and shaken down for every thing they own.

It's all or nothing now. They might as well scam cheat & steal as much as they can from the weakest targets before they get fired.

[EnglishJohn]

One year into the 'reform' and yet not one 'reform' has been carried out.

I think we can drop the 'reform' crap now, even the feckless morons who supported the coup and actually believed there was intention to 'reform' are starting to see there was never intention to 'reform' anything for the benefit of the people of the country.

I think some of the foam from your mouth has got into your eyes and ears because the 'reform' is the new charter and rules for politicians to prevent another dictatorship in all but name via a Parliament of paid cronies.

Reforming the country is the job of the next elected government.

Do you seriously think the Junta can make any progress on a problem so huge in such a short time ?. Only a feckless moron would expect such a thing.

[smutcakes]

One year into the 'reform' and yet not one 'reform' has been carried out.

I think we can drop the 'reform' crap now, even the feckless morons who supported the coup and actually believed there was intention to 'reform' are starting to see there was never intention to 'reform' anything for the benefit of the people of the country.

I think some of the foam from your mouth has got into your eyes and ears because the 'reform' is the new charter and rules for politicians to prevent another dictatorship in all but name via a Parliament of paid cronies.

Reforming the country is the job of the next elected government.

Do you seriously think the Junta can make any progress on a problem so huge in such a short time ?. Only a feckless moron would expect such a thing.

They have been in power a year and have not done one single thing about reforming the areas desperately needed to be reformed....eg the police.

I would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the New Constitution and how the new rules are going to prevent corruption? i am preparing to be very enlightened.

[fred Kubasa]

Reforming present police force like trying to recover glass filled with water spilt in sand. Best to get a new glass of water !

[Oziex1]

If they found themselves out of a job, what would they do. The same as they do now but without uniform. It's a mess and only the most extreme action can fix it.

[gandalf12]

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One has to start somewhere. Improve the training (get professional help from abroad). Increase salaries. Punish corruption severely. Make finances from higher ranking officers and their families transparant. It all will probably take generations.

You have made one mistake and that is "...get professional help from abroad". Thailand do not like bringing in other countries to train them. They should if they need it but it probably wont happen

[Brer Fox]

The potential policeman has to pay money to get into the Thai police force.

He does so , because he knows it is a money spinner , not because he wants to uphold the law.

You cannot blame them from wanting a return on the thousands they had to pay out just to get on the first rung.

Not much different to the education system where applicant teachers have to pay school directors to get a job. Then students parents have to pay directors to get their children enrolled. And then someone has to pay someone to ensure the students gets qualified. The whole country is corrupt. There are more honest women working in prostitution than there are in people working in government administration.

[JAG]

The potential policeman has to pay money to get into the Thai police force.

He does so , because he knows it is a money spinner , not because he wants to uphold the law.

You cannot blame them from wanting a return on the thousands they had to pay out just to get on the first rung.

Not much different to the education system where applicant teachers have to pay school directors to get a job. Then students parents have to pay directors to get their children enrolled. And then someone has to pay someone to ensure the students gets qualified. The whole country is corrupt. There are more honest women working in prostitution than there are in people working in government administration.

I know it is off topic but I didn't have to pay anything to register my stepson for school, or subsequently for vocational college. I didn't have to pay anything to get my daughter into the school I wanted for her, and , having applied for several jobs as a teacher, I never once had it suggested that I should pay anything, Not even for the two posts for which my applications were successful.

I agree that there is a lot of corruption in Thailand, but at times the accounts are exaggerated.

[scorecard]

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Police reform cannot be put off any longer

I bet it can, and will be.

anyone who has ever worked in a school in Thailand can tell you that this is just another meeting fest in order to honour the new boss.

They will have a meeting to decide if they should offer him white flowers or blue or yellow flowers but definitely not red ones. They know he is like a wisp of smoke and will be blown away by the wind soon enough. He has already shown his like for money by taking over the lottery. What a joke.

That's a very big accusation, please share your rational.

[scorecard]

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One year into the 'reform' and yet not one 'reform' has been carried out.

I think we can drop the 'reform' crap now, even the feckless morons who supported the coup and actually believed there was intention to 'reform' are starting to see there was never intention to 'reform' anything for the benefit of the people of the country.

I think some of the foam from your mouth has got into your eyes and ears because the 'reform' is the new charter and rules for politicians to prevent another dictatorship in all but name via a Parliament of paid cronies.

Reforming the country is the job of the next elected government.

Do you seriously think the Junta can make any progress on a problem so huge in such a short time ?. Only a feckless moron would expect such a thing.

And you really believe that the next elected government will generate and implement major serious reforms?

[BFerearnk]

Sack the lot of them, institute proper training, with the emphasis on the fact that "they" serve "the people", not just the top man, better salaries (reasonable ones for the jobs they do), better uniforms ...

oh, forget it, sack the lot and just put the military in charge of it all. They are (on the whole) nothing more than an extra "tax" collection service (apologies to the very few that actually do the jobs they are paid to do and are not corrupt in some way ... and that will be only a very few).

In THA the police IS a part of the Royal Thai Army.

Royal Thai Landforce - Royal Thai Airforce - Royal Thai Navy - Royal Thai Police. Within the Army, The Royal Thai Marins (Nawikgayothin) are the chefs.

Any rank in the police is consider lower then the same rank in the army.

On Topic ... I visited Tha for 3 years for more then a month, now I live here for 9 yaers and AL annonced clean ups are reforms = ????????.

The upperclass will NEVER give up there priviled live. FEODAL.

[scorecard]

Obviously many things to consider to design the police reforms.

But separating the investigation activity from the RTP because in the past there has been political interference is a waste of words.

What initial guarantee is there that scaly politicians and police won't try to interfere no matter who / what agency heads the investigative wing?

Continuous 'audit' and severe punishment in both directions must feature.

[4u2mad]

Where will the prison be to hold all the corupt police? It would have to be quite large.

[sambum]

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One has to start somewhere. Improve the training (get professional help from abroad). Increase salaries. Punish corruption severely. Make finances from higher ranking officers and their families transparant. It all will probably take generations.

You have made one mistake and that is "...get professional help from abroad". Thailand do not like bringing in other countries to train them. They should if they need it but it probably wont happen

I think you are being generous by using the word "probably"! And all to do with that very Eastern thing "face". No one in their right mind could expect Thailand to accept professional help from any other country as that would be tantamount to them admitting that they are not capable of doing the jobs that they are employed to do. That is never going to happen - just look at the Koh Tao fiasco. First of all we are told that David Cameron has insisted to the Thai Prime Minister that the British Police Force should be involved in the investigation regarding the 2 murdered British backpackers. Immediately upon his return to Thailand the statement/wording is very suddenly changed to indicate that the British Police would be there only to "observe proceedings" - in other words, "look but don't touch". What makes you think that ANY Thai government department would ask for help from another country in any respect when this kind of situation exists?

Edited May 3, 2015 by sambum

[prk888]

A lady named Elsie Tu almost single handedly cleaned up the Royal Hong Kong Police Force (in the 70's as I recall) and shestarted with decent salaries combined with with harsh punishments. Just saying ................

She is still living and would be pleased to advise I am sure !

[sambum]

Where will the prison be to hold all the corupt police? It would have to be quite large.

Could send them all to Koh Tao on "inactive posts". I am sure that somebody could find them something to do.

[BFerearnk]

A lady named Elsie Tu almost single handedly cleaned up the Royal Hong Kong Police Force (in the 70's as I recall) and shestarted with decent salaries combined with with harsh punishments. Just saying ................

She is still living and would be pleased to advise I am sure !

Please read the post #48, just above yours .... TIT

[rametindallas]

Police reform

Isn't that sort of like reforming the Mafia?

When I first came to Thailand, I was told by a good Thai friend that, "there is lots of Mafia in Thailand. The two largest Mafia were very easy to identify because they wear uniforms so you would know they were mafia. The number one Mafia is the military but is is concentrated in the upper ranks of the officer corp and the number two Mafia is the police where even the patrolmen are members (some of the most active assassins in Thailand are active police). The other Mafia is the civilian Mafia that run gambling, prostitution, drugs, and the usual Mafia activities as in other countries. These civilian Mafia have to pay 'tribute' (tea money) to the Police to be allowed to operate. The military Mafia makes its money by controlling the cargo at the airports, customs, and a lot of State Enterprises where they have monopoly control. The type of Mafia the military runs is government sanctioned so no one is 'technically' breaking the law. The Police Mafia are out and out criminals" I don't know if any of this is true, but this is what my good Thai friend told me. I believe him because he is ex-army and ex-police.

Edited May 3, 2015 by rametindallas

[boomerangutang]

But for any reform to be effective, we need to look at it comprehensively - the principles, the philosophy underpinning the force, and the mission of the Thai police.

A thousand rules can be posted, but it comes down to the individual characters of those on the force - particularly those in leadership positions. Moral compass, willingness to do what's right, even in the face of ridicule, courage to do what's right, even it's against the grain. These are big hurdles for Thais, who grow up knowing how to be; how to react to situations, how to get promotions, how to get added money under-the-table. Thais also know all about the endemic social strata and how every situation is predicated on social standing and money issues.

[MZurf]

Reform begins at the top.

When the police chief is seen having his insignia pinned on by a convicted criminal fugitive while the photo of this was hanging in the police chiefs office in the capital of Bangkok in the HQ of the Thai police force then that sends a very very negative message to the future police recruits, the current police recruits and the current police force working under the police chief.

When police chiefs are aligned with a political party and ignore justice and bend to political influence then that sends a message to the police force as well.

Start accountability at the top and ensure that the police force is independent of politics.

And never ever let society see a police chief who is supposed to arrest criminals pin insignia's on them. Never ever let society see police chiefs announce, brag about and cheer the deaths of innocent people at the hands of terrorists in Trat.

When police are terrorists then it is time to reform them with absolute urgency.

God speed Prayut, God speed.

Man, it must be pleasant to live in such a simple world as you do, where everything is either black or white and no shades of gray exist

[davehowden]

JAG

"I think a massive clearout, starting at the top. It will require enormous political will, and I suggest a strong mandate."

Coming soon I think?

[Rod Wallop]

Most of the police I have dealt with can be classified as either buffoons or arrogant losers who are unemployable anywhere else. How on earth do you deal with the tens of thousands of these types? I don't envy anyone trying to solve this particular problem. But the biggest hurdle really is that few are actually in the job because they truly believe in the law, in upholding the law for the sake of the people - at least that's the impression I get. Those that do seldom go anywhere and are marginalised or forced under threat to "look the other way". A good many years back, the Bangkok Post ran a story on Serpisuth (then known simply as Seri) Temiyavej, and headlined it "One good cop". Just about every single person in my office who saw that headline chortled or burst into laughter. Many were outright sneering. The inference is that no cop could make it to his level in the force while remaining a lilywhite. Another inference is that any cop who professes to uphold the law and belief in the law is immediately accused of insincerity. What a mess to have to clean up.

Splendid comments

[selftaopath]

Enforced RULE OF LAW will help change Thailand. No need for debate/ brainstorming/ suggesting/pleading etc. Just enforce the existing laws AND put the guilty where they belong.

SIMPLE.

[NongKhaiKid]

Does anyone know what type of recruitment and screening procedures the BIB have even if only on paper ?

Years ago I saw the results claimed in an opinion poll of police officers and supposedly 44% said they didn't like their job and had only joined for a steady salary. I'll stick my neck out and say ' steady salary ' wasn't defined.

I'm sorry but I can't remember more details of the poll, how many were interviewed etc.

[duckmandon]

P - Protector

O - of

L - Life

I - in

C - Citizen

E - Environment

That is why there ARE a police force. In Thailand life is cheap so why bother. I met a local cop last year, he was old & fat & the first thing he said to me (not in Uniform) was "I'm police". It didn't even require comment. Next time I saw him he was trying to get a free haircut from my wife & free jok at food stall because "I'm Police"

When the Thai government sack them all (putting Army in charge for peace control) then everyone has to re-apply for their jobs after being put through a decent police academy, then Thailand will be on the world stage & not before hand.

[selftaopath]

They just can't make the hard decisions.

Everyone is too scared of making the wrong move and so become an outcast from the IN CROWD.

I think you are correct; sheeple mentality prevails. I also believe Thais ALWAYS "want their cake and eat it too." In all situations and circumstances.

[Nowisee]

First, stop calling them Police...they are far from deserving of that title.
Have separate "services" One trained services patrol and investigates incidents on the roadways. The other patrols and investigates incidents in the communities... beyond that, let the people deal with it one their own.

I am in the pessimistic camp on this "reform"

[bheard]

The potential policeman has to pay money to get into the Thai police force.

He does so , because he knows it is a money spinner , not because he wants to uphold the law.

You cannot blame them from wanting a return on the thousands they had to pay out just to get on the first rung.

Now we understand the term "Born Again".

Evil embedded in the seed of a heart cannot sprung a righteous man.

Understand and agree with the first bit from NE1, but "Evil embedded in the seed of a heart cannot sprung a righteous man."?

What sort of gobbledegook is that?