Are More or Fewer Westerners Relocating to Thailand?

[Mobi]

It's simply a trade-off:

I've compiled a list of items people may wish to consider in their personal 'trade/off', not in any particular order of importance.

· Climate

· Cost of Living. (Housing, services & utilities, food, clothing, autos (new & used), car hire, taxis, and other transportation etc.)

· Place of abode. (Beach, tourist area, gated village, rural village, town, city etc.)

· Entertainment/bar scene

· Restaurants, resorts

· Places to visit for recreation.

· The presence of 'undesirable' nationalities. (To you).

· Culture (or lack of it - theatres, art galleries, ballet, opera etc)

· Corruption (This works both ways - as you can pay off cops for traffic offences etc.)

· Democratic Institutions (or lack of them)

· Integrity of legal system and foreigner's rights in local courts.

· Availability of younger women to live with/marry older men

· Ease of communication with indigenous population (language etc)

· Infrastructure (Roads, railways, electricity, water supply, sewerage, internet, TV, libraries etc.)

· Food and shopping (availability of western food and other 'western' home consumables, domestic hardware etc.)

· Property ownership

· Racism (Both ways)

· Companionship (Friends)

· Visa availability/restrictions

· Ease of working or running/starting a business.

· Exchange control. (Ease of transferring /repatriating funds abroad)

· Tax regime.

· Financial systems, bank accounts etc.

· Healthcare - proficiency/expertise and cost

· Difficulty /ease of 'getting things done'.

· Integrity in relationships and dealings with the indigenous population, shops, businesses etc.

· Crime

· Safety on the roads and elsewhere. (muggings /robberies etc)

· Freedom of speech.

If I've missed anything, be my guest…

Which items on the above list are crucial to you?

For every foreigner who wishes to make his/her home in Thailand, whenever the 'minuses' outrank the 'plusses' against any of the items on the above list that are important to them, then maybe it's time to move on.

For me personally, the 'minuses' have increased against the 'plusses' in recent years, but have yet to overtake them - but that time may come, one day. (Or, I may die first - see below).

My gut feeling from reading this thread and from my personal observations is that more people are leaving than are coming to live here. This may change as a completely new generation of people, probably wealthier on average than the current residents, will compile their own trade-off lists and decide that they can afford to live happily here. Don't forget that those with plenty of money can leave the country regularly to satisfy those needs which are not met in Thailand.

I suspect that the days of the 'sex-pats', criminals on the run, and the 'cheap Charlie' brigade are numbered as the cost of living increases and there is an irreversible decline in the number of Thai ladies available to fulfil their needs at a price they can afford.

Many will either leave to better (cheaper) climes in Philippines, Central America etc, or will simply die off and not be replaced.

But there again, I predicted that the Tories would win the UK general election… and look what happened to that prediction…..

[NeverSure]

Are Russians considered Western ? If so then Yes.

they "retire" here 3-4 months a year and share condos with friends rotating in and out.

Actually they aren't. They are slavic Eastern Europeans, in part of what we call Eastern Europe. They are of course primarily Caucasian.

In context of Thai expats I personally haven't seen as many as I have tourists but I don't know about all areas of Thailand.

Cheers

[SoiBiker]

These days its about quality, not quantity.

[4evermaat]

I live in rural Thailand, I would suggest the numbers based on what I have observed are multiplying rapidly, now, whether this is "new" people, or people finally seeing the benefits of being in what I would call the "real" Thailand and relocating away from the over priced touristy areas is another matter, that night explain why some feel the numbers are dropping. BUT are they dropping from moving out od Thailand, or just moving on to another area, that's the question.

I've seen an increase of people moving to the beach area in Chumphon over the past 2 years. Not sure if that has anything to do with a thread on the subject. Lots of new building here over the past 2 years especially. It's developed with a nice clean beach most of the time, but nothing like Patong/Pattaya. Close enough to Tesco and the town if you need it. 1-2 Flights per day to bangkok. The few people that I talked to that have left are either doing the "split-shift" arrangement where they spend 1/2 the year in their home country and 1/2 here or they have to take care of something back home.....they don't particularly look forward to a permanent move.

Chumphon has always has daily backpacker traffic for people, usually going to Koh Tao/Phangnan/Samui.

I have lived in Thailand for 19 yrs, approx half that time spent in BKK. At that time I was working legitimately and the two big issue were the trouble involved in renewing both the work permit and Visa was unbelievable, not to mention the cost. The second issue was the corruption of the officials at companies I worked in. The last time I worked was following some time at a hospital where the corruption outweighed the patient care. At that point, I surrendered my work permit and changed to a retirement visa. I vowed never to work in Thailand again. And I never have. I moved to KamphaengPhet area and at that time (9 yrs ago) there was a local community of about 30 expats and the life was very good.

Now we have only 4 of us left, the area has a Big C mall, Tesco and many other so called up market shops, we even have a cinema (all Thai dubbed of course). But the problem now is that you cannot but anything and be sure it is genuine, things are advertised but not available, and what you have bought there is no back up service.

3 examples, A pair of glasses, it took 3 people to test my eyes as neither seemed to know what to do. The Frames were an expensive copy of designer brand, and when I went back a month or so later for a slight adjustment to the frame, I was told they couldn't do it and had to return the frames to BKK which would take a month.

Next I wanted to by a Samsung note 4 Tablet, I went to the shop that advertised it (Franchised) and was told they didn't have one, when asked if they could get one, it would have to come from BKK. After waiting 3 weeks and 4 visits to the shop, plus being told lies (like, the car bringing it from BKK crashed) I gave up and wrote to Samsung, who did help me but I had to go to BKK to get the unit.

A similar issue was with a brand new ASUS laptop. It had a defective keyboard, it went back to the shop 3 times, then to Pitsanoluk and finally I had to take it to the main dealer/service center in BKK. After 3 weeks with them and again a nasty letter to ASUS CEO I finally got it back.

My list goes on and on.

It is this constant non productive hassle that eventually wears you down. For anyone who has lived in a (civilized) society where things work, even the law, then it soon becomes a longing to get back to that.

My friend, a teacher at a University for 8 yrs, heard on the grapevine that his contract would not be renewed, at the end of this month, he went to ask if this was true to be told that it was. After 8 yrs service and they had not the decency to give him sufficient notice or even tell him. One wonders if or when they were going to tell him. That is Thainess.

Soon, my circle of 4 will be down to 3, I cannot take this much longer. I will be on my way to Canada.

One member commented on the endless summer here, well it is also nice to experience the seasons again.

I am glad that places like Penang, Malaysia are accessible. People take things a little more seriously there in regards to customer service. Just in general, it is good to take breaks from LOS. The nanny states do have their rules for a reason sometimes. But there is also a need for more laid back approach like Thailand.

Part of living outside of places like Bangkok, Phuket, Chiang Mai, Hat Yaai, etc is knowing that if you buy a smaller electronic product from a vendor, that if you want warranty service you will often have to go to their service center, which are usually a few in Bangkok and then sometimes in some of the major provincial hubs. So who you buy from locally is much more relevant as some shops like BananaIT, Tokyo, Tesco, Synnex, JayMart, etc will offer some ability to exchange or return to the service center on your behalf. I had my own run in with Asus and they gave me an initial "just contact the vendor and they should help you" and of course the vendor insisted that Asus support should handle it

They have their main service center in a Business Center near FortuneTown IT Mall. But Synnex on the 4th floor of FortuneIT is also an authorized provider for many Asus products. Turns out they were able to get the replacement for a router I had in 3 weeks (and they would mail it back) whereas the main service center around the corner was saying up to 7 weeks, PLUS i would have to physically return to the shop to pick it up.

I was mad and irritated that I couldn't just mail it in and get a replacement for something that had a warranty. But when I cooled down, I realized that there might be a good reason why they sometimes require walk-in service (minimize mistakes/accusations/fraud). Then I realized a friend of mine was able to help out the situation. And now I know that Hua Lampong has MRT subway station that you can use to connect to Rama 9 MRT, right below FortuneTown IT and CentralWorld FortuneTown malls and shopping district. You take the SRT train from the other provinces to connect to Hua Lampong.

Edited May 8, 2015 by 4evermaat

[harleyclarkey]

I can't see any westerners relocating to Thailand.

The press has just gotten too bad to feel you are going to a place where your quality of life will improve.

For sure as is said here every day, Thailand has changed dramatically .... and for the worse.

Hoards of Chinese and Russians and plane loads of louts from Europe have destroyed the place. Phuket, a one star island, with overpriced and too often filthy hotels and restaurants, is a Russian satellite and has gone down the dumps. Along with it's openly flaunted Mafia and street thugs is no longer a family destination.

In contrast Mauritius, where I now go, is a fantastic five star island. Genuine friendliness, english speaking relaxed smiling people, six star service like Thailand used to have, stunning beaches, police that will help you and won't shake you down.

Add in corruption from the very top, a residency/visa system (that changes on a whiim) designed to actually keep you out, open faced hostility from locals, no consumer protection, no medical services as we know from home, no police or courts service that will actually, and willingly help you, increasing violence, no property rights, the ever present threat of losing your property, , ...etc...etc...etc.

You would want to be a fool to relocate to Thailand when the rest of the world is at your feet.

I truly feel a sense of loss of what was a world class stunning place to visit/live and sadly having to watch this degeneration over 30 years.

The corrupt class has made a world class mess out of Thailand.

I have to challenge you on 1 point, viz. NO PROPERT RIGHTS. For anybody that has done their research thoroughly, they will be aware that after residing in Thailand for 5 years, you can apply for Thai citizenship. Once citizenship is granted, you have EXACTLY the same rights as Thais, you can own land, work without a work permit, set up your own business the same way as the Thais do etc, and you don't have to renounce your home country citizenship unless your home country does not allow dual citizenship. All I can say is that it appears to me that most of the whingers in TV have NOT done their research thoroughly.

Yes TG, you are spot on.

However my point really was directed to those who do not wish to live in Thailand but to have a base or holiday home.

The very Thais who will not allow proper title to property are the ones who buy in the west with cast iron legal title.

This is grossly unfair and unbalanced.

It would not make the Thais lose face if they allowed, say, a 99 year lease or better still full title for non prime/beach front property..

[keestha]

Sorry for maybe going off topic. But good things can arise from free flowing conversation.

One recurrent theme is this thread seems to be that Thai people have become less friendly (maybe a good idea for another poll?).

If people ask me if in my opinion Thai people have become less friendly, I really don't know what to say.

Of course the Thais react to me in a different way than in the beginning, I settled in Thailand when I was 37 and now I am 61. Women find you less charming etc.

Also somehow in your beginning days you radiate enthusiasm and curiosity about the country which becomes less later on. The novelty of speaking Thai also wears off, in the beginning you are glad when people understand you, but later it is more like you are irritated when they don't.

If you really think that Thai people have become less friendly, difficult to say if you are the reason yourself, or that something really changed.

[lostoday]

Sorry for maybe going off topic. But good things can arise from free flowing conversation.

One recurrent theme is this thread seems to be that Thai people have become less friendly (maybe a good idea for another poll?).

If people ask me if in my opinion Thai people have become less friendly, I really don't know what to say.

Of course the Thais react to me in a different way than in the beginning, I settled in Thailand when I was 37 and now I am 61. Women find you less charming etc.

Also somehow in your beginning days you radiate enthusiasm and curiosity about the country which becomes less later on. The novelty of speaking Thai also wears off, in the beginning you are glad when people understand you, but later it is more like you are irritated when they don't.

If you really think that Thai people have become less friendly, difficult to say if you are the reason yourself, or that something really changed.

In relationships it's called the 7 year itch.

What city is the unfriendliest in the world?

New York City: 31%

Los Angeles: 15%

Paris: 14%

Hong Kong: 9%

São Paulo: 6%

Tokyo: 6%

San Francisco: 4%

London: 3%

Rome: 3%

Sydney: 2%

Other: 9%

Edited May 8, 2015 by lostoday

[simon43]

after residing in Thailand for 5 years, you can apply for Thai citizenship.

Well, you can apply if you can tick the required boxes, which (at a very top level) explanation), include having 3 years of paying taxes from your job/business, being married to a Thai person (unless you have PR already), having an unbroken extension of one-year visas (which would mean a B or O visa).

[Thaidream]

There are probably fewer Westerners relocating to Thailand for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. As a long term visitor and resident, I find more things now about Thailand that I dislike then when I first came almost 50 years ago. However, having worked in many other countries and growing up in the United States- I still find Thailand has many more plusses than either Europe of the US. It is however a matter of perspective and age. If you are older like I am, Thailand was that exotic place, almost a Shangri-La that captivated one the minute you arrived. You couldn't find anything Western and didn't care. Your were in Bangkok- the weather was hot; the beer cold and the women more beautiful than you could imagine. No pollution.... beautiful beaches. Pattaya was a dream- clear blue water and one hotel.

The changes are a result of industrialisation and the stress that it brings. They call it progress.... mostly it is greed. Those that got it want more and could care less how they get it or who and what they damage to get more. Thais are generally still friendlier than most places I have been but the stress has set in. The countryside still has good clean air and that Shangri-La feel. But for how long? What has really got a lot of people upset is that we want the old Bangkok and are now getting New York or London.

[Berkshire]

Sorry for maybe going off topic. But good things can arise from free flowing conversation.

One recurrent theme is this thread seems to be that Thai people have become less friendly (maybe a good idea for another poll?).

If people ask me if in my opinion Thai people have become less friendly, I really don't know what to say.

Of course the Thais react to me in a different way than in the beginning, I settled in Thailand when I was 37 and now I am 61. Women find you less charming etc.

Also somehow in your beginning days you radiate enthusiasm and curiosity about the country which becomes less later on. The novelty of speaking Thai also wears off, in the beginning you are glad when people understand you, but later it is more like you are irritated when they don't.

If you really think that Thai people have become less friendly, difficult to say if you are the reason yourself, or that something really changed.

Your honesty is refreshing. What I notice is that certain farangs will treat Thais with contempt and disrespect and act surprised when they are in return treated with contempt and disrespect. But instead of admitting their own inadequacies, they blame the Thais for "hating farangs" when that's not the case at all.

The simple explanation is that Thais don't need to kiss-up to foreigners anymore. With so many farangs visiting Thailand, the uniqueness is no longer there. Which is fine. I'd rather just be treated as a normal person than some fake royalty. Thais are still friendlier to foreigners than most western countries. But you'll get what you give. If you are friendly and respect the Thais, they will be friendly and respect you.

[Lukecan]

Thailand is still a very attractive place when you compare it with Europe, Australia etc.

But it will get less attractive over time, lets admit it, we like Thailand because of the relative low cost of living,. As the economy improves and wages increase it wont be so cheap to live here anymore.

I see this happening in the next 15 years or so, the gap between the developed world and Thailand will continue to narrow down until it reaches a point where the cost of living in the west will be comparable to Thailand.

[ajjohned]

We're seeing a big growth in the number of expat-expat couples and single women and a big decline in men on their own or with Thai partners.

men on their own will go to great lengths to get away from those single women you mention, obviously these men have found that Chaiang Mai is no longer far enough and have had to go further. seems they are even bothering the partnered ones too, probably even more so.

so be sure not to tell anyone where you are going or these single "women" show up.

[Rhys]

The smaller provinces are still a good bet for a quiet lifestyle.... the x pats that come want to find their own sense of the relaxed life based on European or Western models, this sets the up for too many ethnocentric attitudes...

The decline I see are the ex missionaries oh sorry that was mercenary... Actually, I have not see the clean looking, white shirt wearing, tie wearing younger men spreading the good word... back in the day they were here...

Hmmm...Chieng Mai is unique... an enclave of X pats...more power to them.. Go for it.. the first EXPAT official... X

Edited May 8, 2015 by Rhys

[chrisandsu]

As I have said before Thailand will become the next Spain to Europeans , Bali to Australians , Hawaii to Americans . Old tired and expensive !! The one thing we had was money and a very good exchange rate , which is getting closer by the year ! Remind me why you are needed ? I'm sure they would find more use in a boatload of Burmese they can send out to work !

[ThaiPauly]

Having been here for almost 12 years I don't know of anyone that's left Thailand. Some have died but none have gone home.

Making my home in Chiang Mai gives me the opportunity to socialise if I want to as I have quite a few ex-pat mates, or stay at home and enjoy my garden/books/tv...and occasionally I may talk to my wife and on the odd occasion I may take her somewhere nice to eat or just chill out.

I do know people that want to move to CM, but they have businesses or property to sell before they move, but they are coming despite the kind of negative stuff I read on here.

I have found that if I keep a low profile and show the Thai people respect I am allowed to just get on with enjoying my life here, and I am sure it is a better life than I would have back in the UK.

So I voted that more people are coming, which in my experience is true.

As far as I am concerned things are OK, yes we have a military government, has that affected me ? Not one bit, I stay well away from political arguments and discussion as it makes not one jot of difference what I think, Thais don't care what my views on their country is, so why should I get upset or worry about any of it?

What will be will be, I miss my home country but I go back at least once a year.

I don't forsee any reason why I would want to go anywhere else, I am happy and content, but I realise I don't have a crystal ball, I can't see what the future holds for Thailand, if things got so bad that I was unhappy here, then I would think about leaving, but till that time I will just keep on enjoying the company of people that come to settle down in CM that happen to be in my social circle.

[hhgz]

Definitely less. TVers claimed that August 29, 2014 was the date on which the bottom fell out of the condo market, because of visa changes. The claim was that there are fewer English teachers buying condos for bargirls (like, that's been a big part of the real estate market, nes pa?), or for themselves. TVers are never wrong...

[Rocketsurgeon]

I did not vote, I have no idea. My suspicions are as follows...

Any younger persons with degrees in ridiculous majors not able to secure work (including simply being a decent human being with proper work ethic) may be (trying) to increae numbers here as English teachers. Yeah, this boat has sailed years ago, but this lot has few options. This includes a trickle of even greater geniuses that have no degree. Thailand offers low standards snd the promise of sex once a month, which is better than none.

As for retirees, IMO there are had been far fewer retirees coming over from US as retirement funds took a beating in US since 2008/9. As for EU IMO these numbers also down due to strengthening thb over the years as well as long stay tourists souring on visa hassles - lesson, don't retire here. Finally, with the Euro sinking, anyone on the margins...a clear message to be careful.

Anyone cutting it loose early in life, that's pretty much over as the visa situation has become increasingly worse since Taksins ouster in 2006. So, now in addition to supporting oneself and their future/old age, a person need worry about visas, constantly.

If you care about the people you live amidst (honestly, most farang don't give a F), you want your guest country to prosper. Thailand has managed to remain a Goldilocks economy but it has made a number of blunders and missteps. Then you have the "new govt", for old hands, I count three such attempts to right the ship.

The last decade has seen huge price increases on many goods and services farang use. Thailand is far cheaper than the west in most regards BUT its far more expensive. Thus means other options surface.

It appears many expats spend every bit as much here as they do at home.

Honestly, you'd have to have been (are) pretty foolish to have had or are planning to make your stake here long term and you best have your economic house in order, we might be looking at negative interest rates and a damaged stock market for seeable future.

I can offer something more tangible in regard to the initial question. Seems processing of IR/CR1 visas is way down. People I've spoken to directly report visas in hand in 2.5-6 months done correctly. So that tells me all the romeo millionaires who came and gave it a go, couldn't deal and decided to return to Murica -with their little tilac as consolation prize. Perhaps it was the lack of Fox News, perhaps they miss complaining about our black, Muslim President? Neverthess, the speed USCIS is processing apps is striking.

Thailand still offers us nothing in regard to a stable life (3-5yr visa), double so for those married snd or with kids and working. Immigration officials process visas/extens torally arbitrarily and wait times have tripled.

I bumped into my wife, married and sort of settled here. Before 2009 for me, the writing was well on the wall and Ibwas only sprnding the cool season here in the Andaman isles. I ended up married and now stuck in BKK. There was at a time no way Id settle in Thailand and I rethink my marriage weekly. Wife is lovely but Thailand offers foreigners absolutely nothing other than an allowance for you to stay at one year intervals for which you must grovel, reporting asva criminal every 90 days. Not to mention no private residence ownership and splitting half assets (not necc earned while married) upon divorce.

We just returned from US, it was my wifes fifth no hassle entry for which she has allowed six months with no reporting.

Id be looking at Cuba, Nicaragua, Adriatic Coast, Poland, Czech Rep, Micronesia, rural/island Indonesia. Possibly even Spain, Portugal and Italy. Japan. Fly to Thailand for winters.

Anyone relocating to Thailand not from another regional Asian country, fresh "teachers" or "digital nomads" (ack), I just see as sorry, lonely losers or child molesters. Some very sketchy gay persons - there is seriously no reason to freshly locate here (expat oil workers excepted).

Thailand remains largely a place where the aging, rotund, retiree with a litany of health issues comes to live out the youth they never had. Most are surprised by how and what is metted out here. At least that is what I see in Bangkok, the walking dead.

Its hugely appealling for the aging, divorced bachelor. The right sized flats, meals served cheap to order, plenty of women who will feign interest.

It is very difficult to have hobbies and interests that one might persue at home.

Its really a question of when most if not all go home, not if. They really should not have planned more than a holiday.

Maybe Tesco.and Big C could put in those little cars you can ride around and shop in?

Edited May 9, 2015 by Rocketsurgeon

[lostoday]

My opinion on the above opinion.

Teacher who visited Cuba due to 'low crime rate' strangled in hotel room.

Cuba, high crime, limited health care, corrupt government, bad food.

Indonesia going to ban beer.

It's not rocket science. Thailand has the best infrastructure and the cheapest prices for those clued into where to live.

90 day reporting now on line and it was never a hassel for those with an extra couple of bucks to have it done for you.

Why marriage visas are down for the USA? Ran out of suckers. USA is getting a worse reputation every year - was bound to happen sooner or later.

It's not rocket surgury remember when someone writes about old and fat people they are talking about themselves in the near future - and they are generally not nice people.

Mention old and fat to me and I think about Churchill winning WW2 and Brando starring in the Godfather as I'm sure do all the women in Thailand.

[SoiBiker]

Old is inevitable. Fat isn't.

[lostoday]

Old is inevitable. Fat isn't.

Fat is surface. There a thousand things more important about a person. There is honor, and trust and morality and ethics and friendship and courtesy and love. A doctor gets paid to talk to a patient about fat - you don't. Some unknown person on the internet making a value judgement about a person because of weight is totally surface, trite and worthy of a brainless, cheerleader from California (sorry picked the most unenlightened specimen I could think of). Get it? Cheerleader skinny - Churchill fat.

[TheCruncher]

My opinion on the above opinion.

Teacher who visited Cuba due to 'low crime rate' strangled in hotel room.

Cuba, high crime, limited health care, corrupt government, bad food.

Indonesia going to ban beer.

It's not rocket science. Thailand has the best infrastructure and the cheapest prices for those clued into where to live.

90 day reporting now on line and it was never a hassel for those with an extra couple of bucks to have it done for you.

Why marriage visas are down for the USA? Ran out of suckers. USA is getting a worse reputation every year - was bound to happen sooner or later.

It's not rocket surgury remember when someone writes about old and fat people they are talking about themselves in the near future - and they are generally not nice people.

Mention old and fat to me and I think about Churchill winning WW2 and Brando starring in the Godfather as I'm sure do all the women in Thailand.

Thailand best value? You must have missed this one

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/823533-spain-1-tourist-friendly-country-thailand-slips-due-to-safety/page-2#entry9390201

Spain #1 Tourist Friendly Country-Thailand Slips Due to Safety

Thailand's safety ranking slipped to 132 out of 140. Last among countries in Asia and only above Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Egypt, Venezuela, Pakistan, Yemen, Colombia and Nigeria.

[lostoday]

My opinion on the above opinion.

Teacher who visited Cuba due to 'low crime rate' strangled in hotel room.

Cuba, high crime, limited health care, corrupt government, bad food.

Indonesia going to ban beer.

It's not rocket science. Thailand has the best infrastructure and the cheapest prices for those clued into where to live.

90 day reporting now on line and it was never a hassel for those with an extra couple of bucks to have it done for you.

Why marriage visas are down for the USA? Ran out of suckers. USA is getting a worse reputation every year - was bound to happen sooner or later.

It's not rocket surgury remember when someone writes about old and fat people they are talking about themselves in the near future - and they are generally not nice people.

Mention old and fat to me and I think about Churchill winning WW2 and Brando starring in the Godfather as I'm sure do all the women in Thailand.

Thailand best value? You must have missed this one

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/823533-spain-1-tourist-friendly-country-thailand-slips-due-to-safety/page-2#entry9390201

Spain #1 Tourist Friendly Country-Thailand Slips Due to Safety

Thailand's safety ranking slipped to 132 out of 140. Last among countries in Asia and only above Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Egypt, Venezuela, Pakistan, Yemen, Colombia and Nigeria.

I agree with you if this thread was about tourism which your survey is about. Perhaps if you read the topic you would see it is not about tourism and your article not on topic.

For example I would love to go to Disneyland but not live there.

The post I was responding to was about; Cuba, Nicaragua, Adriatic Coast, Poland, Czech Rep, Micronesia, rural/island Indonesia. Possibly even Spain, Portugal and Italy. Japan.

I only mentioned Cuba and Indonesia as being bad choices. Although you could check the condo rental prices in Spain, Portugal, Italy and Japan if you really want to consider living there.

I know you are not American but the lifting of restrictions on Cuban travel has made Cuba affordable and only an hour away for Americans but the negatives are just too great at this point to think it will effect Thai relocation competition.

[TheCruncher]

My opinion on the above opinion.

Teacher who visited Cuba due to 'low crime rate' strangled in hotel room.

Cuba, high crime, limited health care, corrupt government, bad food.

Indonesia going to ban beer.

It's not rocket science. Thailand has the best infrastructure and the cheapest prices for those clued into where to live.

90 day reporting now on line and it was never a hassel for those with an extra couple of bucks to have it done for you.

Why marriage visas are down for the USA? Ran out of suckers. USA is getting a worse reputation every year - was bound to happen sooner or later.

It's not rocket surgury remember when someone writes about old and fat people they are talking about themselves in the near future - and they are generally not nice people.

Mention old and fat to me and I think about Churchill winning WW2 and Brando starring in the Godfather as I'm sure do all the women in Thailand.

Thailand best value? You must have missed this one

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/823533-spain-1-tourist-friendly-country-thailand-slips-due-to-safety/page-2#entry9390201

Spain #1 Tourist Friendly Country-Thailand Slips Due to Safety

Thailand's safety ranking slipped to 132 out of 140. Last among countries in Asia and only above Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Egypt, Venezuela, Pakistan, Yemen, Colombia and Nigeria.

I agree with you if this thread was about tourism which your survey is about. Perhaps if you read the topic you would see it is not about tourism and your article not on topic.

For example I would love to go to Disneyland but not live there.

The post I was responding to was about; Cuba, Nicaragua, Adriatic Coast, Poland, Czech Rep, Micronesia, rural/island Indonesia. Possibly even Spain, Portugal and Italy. Japan.

I only mentioned Cuba and Indonesia as being bad choices. Although you could check the condo rental prices in Spain, Portugal, Italy and Japan if you really want to consider living there.

I know you are not American but the lifting of restrictions on Cuban travel has made Cuba affordable and only an hour away for Americans but the negatives are just too great at this point to think it will effect Thai relocation competition.

Thailand's safety ranking slipped to 132 out of 140. Last among countries in Asia and only above Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Egypt, Venezuela, Pakistan, Yemen, Colombia and Nigeria.

Oh, you mean safety concerns only tourists not so expats, so I guess in such a situation the criminals will ask if you are a tourist first. Thanks for the clarification

By the way, property prices in Portugal and Spain are currently a bargain compared to Thailand.

Edited May 10, 2015 by TheCruncher

[Nowisee]

I have good days and bad days here.

Good days are what currently keeps me here.

Bad days are why I read about other places to go. The issue is I am overwhelmed with the possibilities of where I can go.

Living here is a compromise and sometimes (getting more frequent) I feel I am giving too much and not getting enough in return, cheating myself out of good young retirement years being able to pursue my hobbies.

Some of these feelings can be reversed simply by giving more and yet some are deal breakers …that is something I have to decide.

This is the reason I am seriously considering not renewing my retirement extension next year and instead will chose to enter on a 90 day tourist visa.

IF I were to stay, I need to leave CM (within 12k of), this place is a ClusterF and getting worse. I would prefer to live more rural/countryside. I have done without most western goods for 3 years, cook and eat only thai and stay away from places that overcharge because I am farang.

IF (when) I leave it will be for a list of reasons that simply outweigh the reasons to stay.

Of the farangs I know. 3 have left thailand this year alone… one for visa issues, 1 for the unfriendliness of the natives and one for the cost to gain ratio.

[lostoday]

My opinion on the above opinion.

Teacher who visited Cuba due to 'low crime rate' strangled in hotel room.

Cuba, high crime, limited health care, corrupt government, bad food.

Indonesia going to ban beer.

It's not rocket science. Thailand has the best infrastructure and the cheapest prices for those clued into where to live.

90 day reporting now on line and it was never a hassel for those with an extra couple of bucks to have it done for you.

Why marriage visas are down for the USA? Ran out of suckers. USA is getting a worse reputation every year - was bound to happen sooner or later.

It's not rocket surgury remember when someone writes about old and fat people they are talking about themselves in the near future - and they are generally not nice people.

Mention old and fat to me and I think about Churchill winning WW2 and Brando starring in the Godfather as I'm sure do all the women in Thailand.

Thailand best value? You must have missed this one

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/823533-spain-1-tourist-friendly-country-thailand-slips-due-to-safety/page-2#entry9390201

Spain #1 Tourist Friendly Country-Thailand Slips Due to Safety

Thailand's safety ranking slipped to 132 out of 140. Last among countries in Asia and only above Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Egypt, Venezuela, Pakistan, Yemen, Colombia and Nigeria.

I agree with you if this thread was about tourism which your survey is about. Perhaps if you read the topic you would see it is not about tourism and your article not on topic.

For example I would love to go to Disneyland but not live there.

The post I was responding to was about; Cuba, Nicaragua, Adriatic Coast, Poland, Czech Rep, Micronesia, rural/island Indonesia. Possibly even Spain, Portugal and Italy. Japan.

I only mentioned Cuba and Indonesia as being bad choices. Although you could check the condo rental prices in Spain, Portugal, Italy and Japan if you really want to consider living there.

I know you are not American but the lifting of restrictions on Cuban travel has made Cuba affordable and only an hour away for Americans but the negatives are just too great at this point to think it will effect Thai relocation competition.

Thailand's safety ranking slipped to 132 out of 140. Last among countries in Asia and only above Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Egypt, Venezuela, Pakistan, Yemen, Colombia and Nigeria.

Oh, you mean safety concerns only tourists not so expats, so I guess in such a situation the criminals will ask if you are a tourist first. Thanks for the clarification

By the way, property prices in Portugal and Spain are currently a bargain compared to Thailand.

http://happylifestylejournal.com/15-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world/2/

I wrote condo rent.

[TheCruncher]

Thailand's safety ranking slipped to 132 out of 140. Last among countries in Asia and only above Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Egypt, Venezuela, Pakistan, Yemen, Colombia and Nigeria.

Oh, you mean safety concerns only tourists not so expats, so I guess in such a situation the criminals will ask if you are a tourist first. Thanks for the clarification

By the way, property prices in Portugal and Spain are currently a bargain compared to Thailand.

http://happylifestylejournal.com/15-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world/2/

I wrote condo rent.

What's the point of your link, we are talking about countries not cities. By the way most of the cities mentioned in the link are located in the only 8 countries that are considered more dangerous than Thail

[traveldog]

I said more but was including Russians as westerners so my bad, I guess. Anyway, 14 years living in Phuket, married for 8 to a lovely Thai gal. Still happy but probably moving to a quieter province which is what I see many doing. The rural areas where I never would see a western person are now being commonly found, and that seems normal. I have seen several old hands leave but more than replaced by the incoming tide who seem to think even here in over crowded, traffic snarled and greedy Phuket life is pretty great compared to where they are from. I feel the same. I too have researched and visited many other possible countries to relocate.....but there are always drawbacks, such as crime, cost of living, weather or amenities. Anyway, nice thread, interesting to see what people think....not what they know

[lostoday]

Relocation and tourism are two different things. Danger for a tourist would not bother me at all because I know what and where and whom to avoid. Lady boys don't grab me and no one snatches my gold. Why? I speak Thai, don't go to hooker areas and my gold is in an ETF. Simple really. I guess less Farang are relocating here but I don't really know as I don't much associate with them anymore. All the ones I know are still here especially if you count ashes. I try and not use every thread as a sounding board for my pro or anti positions and answer the question except when provoked to counter a lie.

Why are less Farang coming here? Currency. The Thai baht has appreciated against most currencies in the past 10 years. The fellows I know don't worry much about the slight moves re their bank accounts so not a factor to me.

Most of the other reasons are verboten to speak of so the only one I really can confirm is currency.

[RikDao]

I've been here nine years this October and have already purchased my ticket for Mexico. I could be perfectly happy for the rest of my life in Thailand if it weren't for the present government. My little inner voice is saying "get the heck outta Dodge," this man is not playing with a full deck of cards and that will eventually trickle down to all facets of life. It's already bad enough - as a musician it is illegal for me to play UNPAID in public, but the harassment from the BIB in Bangkok described by an earlier post can get worse as they grow bolder when the PM gets cemented into his position. And there are other circumstances we can't even mention on this forum that are going to cause a great upheaval. I don't want to be around for ANY of that. I arrived when Thaksin was ousted, and not a THING was noticed by me or my friends. THIS PM is making serious waves felt by all!

Not trying to be a wise guy, and for sure I haven't been here long enough (year and a half) to compare nowadays with the good ol' days, but what (generally or specifically) are you alluding to in your final sentence above? I understand about the music in public issue, but...

I don't read much about Thai politics or Thai-farang relations, it's true. I am aware that there are tons (literally, LOL) of Chinese here in Chiang Mai, but they seem to add color to the place, especially the beautiful females, and there can be no doubt that they're helping the economy. I have a fair amount of farang friends, and I don't notice them complaining much about the current political situation.

So please, relieve me of my ignorance. I'm naive, yes, I admit it, but I'm open to new ideas and facts.

(I realize this thread has probably peaked, and I probably won't get an answer. So be it).

[elgordo38]

I've been here nine years this October and have already purchased my ticket for Mexico. I could be perfectly happy for the rest of my life in Thailand if it weren't for the present government. My little inner voice is saying "get the heck outta Dodge," this man is not playing with a full deck of cards and that will eventually trickle down to all facets of life. It's already bad enough - as a musician it is illegal for me to play UNPAID in public, but the harassment from the BIB in Bangkok described by an earlier post can get worse as they grow bolder when the PM gets cemented into his position. And there are other circumstances we can't even mention on this forum that are going to cause a great upheaval. I don't want to be around for ANY of that. I arrived when Thaksin was ousted, and not a THING was noticed by me or my friends. THIS PM is making serious waves felt by all!

Funny, I was chatting with a foreigner last week that moved to Chiang Mai last year from Mexico after living there for many years... His reason, safety.. The cartels of narco trafficantes have all but taken over the country, even down on the Yucatan peninsula... I know folks that retired to Monterey 10 years ago and have since moved on, either back to the US or to Costa Rica and Panama... Living in Texas we used to cross the border into Mexico on weekends for holidays... Not anymore considering that hundreds of Americans have disappeared after crossing in Mexico over the last 10 years... Good luck and take care to keep your head attached living in Mexico these days...

I spent 10 yrs. in Mexico and wished I would have skipped that and come to Thailand. Immigration there is harder to work with and the girls are not like here. The Macho Mexicans keep their ladies corralled even their g/f's and the richer they are the more g/f's. Its a money power thingee same as here. Mexicans out and out do not like you because they have a grudge going back to the American/Mexican war and if your white your a gringo/American. Things are more expensive there and the mosquito's are bigger and more plentiful. I was married to a Mexican (big mistake) years ago and her brother was coming home alone in the truck after selling a milk machine to a farmer. He came over a hill and was confronted by what he thought was a Federales roadblock but in fact they were banditos (Mexico is full of them) They found his money under the truck seat and after ruffing him up they threw him over a steep hill. Luckily he rolled against a tree before hitting bottom as they meant to kill him. Do not get a little high and let the word drugs slip out in conversation it could be your last words.