Unbuilt Phuket condo buyers appeal to Gov to push refunds

[cardinalblue]

I agree....anyone who pays money up front in Thailand for services/products not yet rendered knows little of how the culture works here....

Thais are always looking to take advantages of vulnerable people given that there is an incredibly weak and corrupt legal system...

Disputes here are settled by duels and gunfights (and throw in some hit men)..

You pay as you go...

CB

[KarenBravo]

I agree....anyone who pays money up front in Thailand for services/products not yet rendered knows little of how the culture works here....

Thais are always looking to take advantages of vulnerable people given that there is an incredibly weak and corrupt legal system...

Disputes here are settled by duels and gunfights (and throw in some hit men)..

You pay as you go...

CB

Completely wrong.

The culture here is to pay 50% and 50% on completion of services and/or delivery.

It is you that doesn't understand the culture.

[BlackJack]

Buying condo´s off the plan in Thailand is like a lottery. If the condo´s are actually being built, you will gain a large profit. If not you will take the loss without crying.

Thailand badly needs ESCROW to protect buyers

[steelepulse]

I have heard that some off plan condo developers were paying a seriously high commission ( up to 25%) on sales thus people getting pushed towards developments like this.

[BKResort]

I hope the money was paid to the developer/contractor, and not to a marketing company representing the developer.

Donald Trump got away with all the deposit money of a big vacation project in Mexico, in 2007, blaming the developer for abandoning the site, and not even started the construction. Trump "liability" was stated on the contract in small printing, even if the development's name was "Trump Towers".

It is a lot of info about this event on the Internet....but....now Donald Trump started another "Trump Towers" with the same scheme.... Probably there are many "developers" learning from the "Master". No Government will be involved in those cases. It is a civil matter. Some people will be lucky in getting some refund in court.

Edited May 9, 2015 by BKResort

[NamKangMan]

I agree....anyone who pays money up front in Thailand for services/products not yet rendered knows little of how the culture works here....

Thais are always looking to take advantages of vulnerable people given that there is an incredibly weak and corrupt legal system...

Disputes here are settled by duels and gunfights (and throw in some hit men)..

You pay as you go...

CB

Completely wrong.

The culture here is to pay 50% and 50% on completion of services and/or delivery.

It is you that doesn't understand the culture.

Ahhhh, that would be "50%" paid "up front" wouldn't it????

[Robert24]

why should the government get involved in this?

Because it is quite possibly massive fraud. And the government should be concerned with financial fraud. Nail the developers to a cross.

I guess you are referring to the police and prosecution when you talk about the government, right? They would have to lodge a complaint with the police if they think it was fraud or another criminal offense. And their lawyers would have to sue the company to get the money back. IMHO this is a matter for courts, lawyers etc and not the governor.

[grumpyoldman]

why should the government get involved in this?

Because it is quite possibly massive fraud. And the government should be concerned with financial fraud. Nail the developers to a cross.

I guess you are referring to the police and prosecution when you talk about the government, right? They would have to lodge a complaint with the police if they think it was fraud or another criminal offense. And their lawyers would have to sue the company to get the money back. IMHO this is a matter for courts, lawyers etc and not the governor.

"we've been down this road before,down this road before, just too long and dark"

I don't think anyone got any money back and ol boy did 10 months:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/695410-aussie-fraud-embezzlement-trial-to-start-in-june/

[Robert24]

why should the government get involved in this?

Because it is quite possibly massive fraud. And the government should be concerned with financial fraud. Nail the developers to a cross.

I guess you are referring to the police and prosecution when you talk about the government, right? They would have to lodge a complaint with the police if they think it was fraud or another criminal offense. And their lawyers would have to sue the company to get the money back. IMHO this is a matter for courts, lawyers etc and not the governor.

"we've been down this road before,down this road before, just too long and dark"

I don't think anyone got any money back and ol boy did 10 months:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/695410-aussie-fraud-embezzlement-trial-to-start-in-june/

Yep. Maybe you not get the money back. But spending 10 months in a Thai jail and I guess not being able to return to Thailand is no fun neither.

[micmichd]

Hopefully there will be Thai immigrants in Oz to care for him, and one with a sharp knife.

[sambum]

“The project cannot be completed [at the moment] because of a problem inside the project. I am not at liberty to say what that problem is."

"It's only words, and words are all I have ................" (With thanks to the Bee Gees)

[xylophone]

“Refunding the money is is not the problem. The problem is an internal company issue.”

If anyone is daft enough to believe this, I am selling timeshares at Buckingham Palace for 1-20 million euros.

Investors in the stalled project in Nanai Road, "The Park" have also been told that they will get their money back if the project doesn't go ahead............and they believe these people! One Thai lady I know even continued paying the monthly payments because of this promise and would not believe me when I said that she was highly unlikely to get any money back if they are not completed.

She still firmly believes that she will get her money back, as do a couple of her Thai friends who "invested" in this development with the promise of a big profit from on selling them once they were completed.

IMO there have been warning signs about the property market in Patong for some time and when one starts to see local girls who earn around 12,000 baht a month, buying into these units (borrowing from friends and family to do so) then you know that is the time to get out of it.

Just about every crash, has an element of this in it, people borrowing money to invest in the "sure thing", whether they be shares or property, only to find that they were in the bubble which they had helped create, and it burst.

I saw it in the 1987 sharemarket crash, the 1999 tech stock crash, and even the recent GFC was as triggered by unfettered lending which resulted in risky bank/financial institution property loans which were then "engineered" into debt instruments (CDOs) and sold around the world.

The Patong property market has been suffering for some while now, even though the real estate "experts", whom I notice have published articles in the Phuket Gazette, are saying otherwise (well they would, wouldn't they) with houses and apartments remaining unsold for over five years, and to get a perspective on this, a friend recently sold a 64 m² apartment in the middle of a golf course in Kathu for 1.55 million baht, because he wanted to get rid of it, and he lost money on it because there were no buyers out there...........someone got a bargain.

On that note, I suppose every cloud has a silver lining and if someone is in the market for a bargain, I believe there will be a few around in the not too distant future.

[Jonmarleesco]

I should have thought people would have long learnt that paying most of the money in advance of the project even starting is not a good idea; not least because it raises questions about the developer's financial viability.

High time the government introduced laws compelling developers to start development before marketing, and to utilise escrow accounts, no exceptions.

[mikiea]

why should the government get involved in this?

should not , money spent on good wine , loose women and fast cars . now it is a civil legal problem . did not insist on escrow of some type ? well .. send me some money each month , ehhhh.... yea i will build you a super duper pent house apt . yea dats it , dats da ticket ...build it next year i will , yes i will .

[balo]

I agree....anyone who pays money up front in Thailand for services/products not yet rendered knows little of how the culture works here....

Thais are always looking to take advantages of vulnerable people given that there is an incredibly weak and corrupt legal system...

Disputes here are settled by duels and gunfights (and throw in some hit men)..

You pay as you go...

CB

Actually you are wrong, it's the foreign developers or scammers as I call them , coming to Pattaya and Phuket that are the real criminals here, not Thais. If you buy off plan from a Thai owned , experienced developer , you will start a down payment plan and you can be sure it's legal if a lot of Thais invest in them. Most of the condos are finished on time here in Pattaya and they are from respectable Thai companies, you will see progress there unlike other projects that are controlled by foreigners. But right now due to the financial problems in Europe some projects has been delayed.

[stevenl]

I agree....anyone who pays money up front in Thailand for services/products not yet rendered knows little of how the culture works here....

Thais are always looking to take advantages of vulnerable people given that there is an incredibly weak and corrupt legal system...

Disputes here are settled by duels and gunfights (and throw in some hit men)..

You pay as you go...

CB

Actually you are wrong, it's the foreign developers or scammers as I call them , coming to Pattaya and Phuket that are the real criminals here, not Thais. If you buy off plan from a Thai owned , experienced developer , you will start a down payment plan and you can be sure it's legal if a lot of Thais invest in them. Most of the condos are finished on time here in Pattaya and they are from respectable Thai companies, you will see progress there unlike other projects that are controlled by foreigners. But right now due to the financial problems in Europe some projects has been delayed.

Building in Thailand, payment in Thailand. How can financial problems in Europe delay a development like this?

[GiantFan]

This is really disturbing What is the name of the company that is building the project No where in the Story does it state what the name of the company is

Just the name of the Condo We should know the company name too

If you are interested, just Google the condo name.

They say they are family run and have done a few other small projects in Patong. They could indeed have another partner on this project.

Having lived in Patong for 10 years, I recall when Sai Kor was first being built up and the word was that much of that land was in the hands of the powers

that be. I wonder if the other partner "no longer being around" is a euphemism for something else?

[micmichd]

I agree....anyone who pays money up front in Thailand for services/products not yet rendered knows little of how the culture works here....

Thais are always looking to take advantages of vulnerable people given that there is an incredibly weak and corrupt legal system...

Disputes here are settled by duels and gunfights (and throw in some hit men)..

You pay as you go...

CB

Actually you are wrong, it's the foreign developers or scammers as I call them , coming to Pattaya and Phuket that are the real criminals here, not Thais. If you buy off plan from a Thai owned , experienced developer , you will start a down payment plan and you can be sure it's legal if a lot of Thais invest in them. Most of the condos are finished on time here in Pattaya and they are from respectable Thai companies, you will see progress there unlike other projects that are controlled by foreigners. But right now due to the financial problems in Europe some projects has been delayed.

Building in Thailand, payment in Thailand. How can financial problems in Europe delay a development like this?

European banks probably want property on Thai land as guarantee for further credit.

[stevenl]

I agree....anyone who pays money up front in Thailand for services/products not yet rendered knows little of how the culture works here....

Thais are always looking to take advantages of vulnerable people given that there is an incredibly weak and corrupt legal system...

Disputes here are settled by duels and gunfights (and throw in some hit men)..

You pay as you go...

CB

Actually you are wrong, it's the foreign developers or scammers as I call them , coming to Pattaya and Phuket that are the real criminals here, not Thais. If you buy off plan from a Thai owned , experienced developer , you will start a down payment plan and you can be sure it's legal if a lot of Thais invest in them. Most of the condos are finished on time here in Pattaya and they are from respectable Thai companies, you will see progress there unlike other projects that are controlled by foreigners. But right now due to the financial problems in Europe some projects has been delayed.

Building in Thailand, payment in Thailand. How can financial problems in Europe delay a development like this?

European banks probably want property on Thai land as guarantee for further credit.

Very, very unlikely European banks are involved in projects like this. And on top of that, I would presume they still have the land deeds (probably mortgaged to a Thai bank though).

[DrDave]

I agree....anyone who pays money up front in Thailand for services/products not yet rendered knows little of how the culture works here....

Thais are always looking to take advantages of vulnerable people given that there is an incredibly weak and corrupt legal system...

Disputes here are settled by duels and gunfights (and throw in some hit men)..

You pay as you go...

CB

Completely wrong.

The culture here is to pay 50% and 50% on completion of services and/or delivery.

It is you that doesn't understand the culture.

Ahhhh, that would be "50%" paid "up front" wouldn't it????

Agree with KB. No more than 50% should be paid prior to delivery of an off-plan unit.

Anyone signing a contract that requires monthly payments is asking for trouble. Any payments made prior to turnover of the unit should be based upon project milestones, not dates.

If a contract requires time-based payments, insist that it be re-written to require milestone-based payments instead. If the developer refuses, then walk away because it's obvious that the project is under-funded and has a good likelihood of not being completed.

[NamKangMan]

I agree....anyone who pays money up front in Thailand for services/products not yet rendered knows little of how the culture works here....

Thais are always looking to take advantages of vulnerable people given that there is an incredibly weak and corrupt legal system...

Disputes here are settled by duels and gunfights (and throw in some hit men)..

You pay as you go...

CB

Completely wrong.

The culture here is to pay 50% and 50% on completion of services and/or delivery.

It is you that doesn't understand the culture.

Ahhhh, that would be "50%" paid "up front" wouldn't it????

Agree with KB. No more than 50% should be paid prior to delivery of an off-plan unit.

Anyone signing a contract that requires monthly payments is asking for trouble. Any payments made prior to turnover of the unit should be based upon project milestones, not dates.

If a contract requires time-based payments, insist that it be re-written to require milestone-based payments instead. If the developer refuses, then walk away because it's obvious that the project is under-funded and has a good likelihood of not being completed.

Why would someone in their right mind even part with the 50% deposit????

If someone is set on buying in Thailand, buying "off the plan" carries the most risk, of an already risky property purchase.

Also, if one was to insist on "milestone-based payments" - I could only imagine the dodgy construction and materials used to slap the thing together, if they were not built bad enough here already, just to keep the payments coming in.

Edited May 10, 2015 by NamKangMan

[KarenBravo]

50% deposit is the maximum for ANY goods or services.

Of course you don't pay 50% of a deposit on an off-plan condominium.

[ChiangmaiRob]

A couple of things bother me.

Why did the buyers pay monthly? I have never heard of this. A deposit is the norm

Why did they continue to pay when nothing was built?

Why did the red flag not go up when their payments were acknowledged with an email (!!) that said "Thanks" .

Bizarre.

I have bought off plan here in Pattaya with a deposit and monthly installments. The project was never built owing to not getting the percentage. I was refunded all monies I paid in along with the interest due.

I did exactly the same 6 or 7 years ago, maybe the same developer, certainly the same circumstances and I also got my deposit back, with interest. I then bought into another development by the same developer and have been in the condo for 5.5 years. Incidentally, the first development has now been completed after it was re-advertised a couple of years later and sold no problem.

[NamKangMan]

50% deposit is the maximum for ANY goods or services.

Of course you don't pay 50% of a deposit on an off-plan condominium.

You wouldn't pay a 50% deposit to a bar girl for "services."

Why would you pay a 50% deposit to anyone working in the biggest scamming industry in Thailand, the property industry?

[micmichd]

No, you only pay ladydrinks and barfine.

You make advance payments for material and services in building construction, step by step.

Edited May 10, 2015 by micmichd

[KarenBravo]

50% deposit is the maximum for ANY goods or services.

Of course you don't pay 50% of a deposit on an off-plan condominium.

You wouldn't pay a 50% deposit to a bar girl for "services."

Why would you pay a 50% deposit to anyone working in the biggest scamming industry in Thailand, the property industry?

What's the matter with your reading comprehension?

I said a MAXIMUM of 50% and I wasn't thinking of bar-girls. Just general goods and services that make up 99% of trade.

Get your mind out of the gutter.

[NamKangMan]

50% deposit is the maximum for ANY goods or services.

Of course you don't pay 50% of a deposit on an off-plan condominium.

You wouldn't pay a 50% deposit to a bar girl for "services."

Why would you pay a 50% deposit to anyone working in the biggest scamming industry in Thailand, the property industry?

What's the matter with your reading comprehension?

I said a MAXIMUM of 50% and I wasn't thinking of bar-girls. Just general goods and services that make up 99% of trade.

Get your mind out of the gutter.

Wake up to yourself KB.

There is no such thing as a REFUND in Thailand. Don't even pay 1% deposit, let alone a "maximum of 50%."

I only pay for any goods and/or services upon supply or completion here.

[NamKangMan]

No, you only pay ladydrinks and barfine.

You make advance payments for material and services in building construction, step by step.

Haven't paid a barfine in a long time.

I refuse to pay a 1000 baht bar fine. I've been going "freelance" for sometime now.

"Advanced payment for materials and services" - what a great way to ensure you are not ripped off.

[micmichd]

50% deposit is the maximum for ANY goods or services.

Of course you don't pay 50% of a deposit on an off-plan condominium.

You wouldn't pay a 50% deposit to a bar girl for "services."

Why would you pay a 50% deposit to anyone working in the biggest scamming industry in Thailand, the property industry?

What's the matter with your reading comprehension?

I said a MAXIMUM of 50% and I wasn't thinking of bar-girls. Just general goods and services that make up 99% of trade.

Get your mind out of the gutter.

Wake up to yourself KB.

There is no such thing as a REFUND in Thailand. Don't even pay 1% deposit, let alone a "maximum of 50%."

I only pay for any goods and/or services upon supply or completion here.

If you're American and pay cash, then most likely you pay with a promise on a piece of paper.

[KarenBravo]

50% deposit is the maximum for ANY goods or services.

Of course you don't pay 50% of a deposit on an off-plan condominium.

You wouldn't pay a 50% deposit to a bar girl for "services."

Why would you pay a 50% deposit to anyone working in the biggest scamming industry in Thailand, the property industry?

What's the matter with your reading comprehension?

I said a MAXIMUM of 50% and I wasn't thinking of bar-girls. Just general goods and services that make up 99% of trade.

Get your mind out of the gutter.

Wake up to yourself KB.

There is no such thing as a REFUND in Thailand. Don't even pay 1% deposit, let alone a "maximum of 50%."

I only pay for any goods and/or services upon supply or completion here.

Well. Under those conditions, you can't:-

Build a house.

Rent a vehicle.

Rent a house.

Buy anything through the internet.

Rent a hotel room.

Pretty much rent anything.

Get a driving license etc. etc. etc.

Obviously, there are some things you don't have to put a deposit on. In fact, many things. Like food and drink.

But, when someone wants/needs payment in advance, the convention here is 50% down, 50% on completion (as you well know).

Why don't you go and play in a tuk-tuk thread.