Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[Mobi]

Back in the old, old days, there was no such things as VOA and we all had to jump on plane to Hong Kong every 90 days to get a new non immigrant visa. This even applied to those of us who were working. Only permanent residents could avoid leaving the country every 90 days.

I've never understood why most visa runners (except maybe those at the bottom of the pile) didn't go somewhere and get a 60 day multiple day tourist visa, which extends to 90 days. There could never have been much difference in the cost, and far less hassle.

However, if you read the statement put out by immigration, he seems to be saying two things. Firstly no more "back to back"VOA''s, and also that Tourists cannot stay for more than 90 days without having a break for 90 days. He says this is to get rid of undesirables, illegal workers etc. So, at the end of the day, what's the difference between a long term tourist who gets VOA's, and a long term tourist who gets multiple tourist visas? No much in my view - so I wouldn't be surprised if the tourist visas also come into this new net, even though it hasn't been spelt out very clearly. Because, most visa runners, if they have the cash, will now revert to tourist visas - so how have the authorities solved the problem of "undesirables"? Maybe someone can find out?

Incidentally, I can say from persoanl experience that if you are over 50 and have 800K, it is far easier to get a retirement visa (takes about 1 hour in Pattataya) then to get a visa based on marriage to Thai.

Also, if you are under 50, and not married to a Thai, it doesn't actually cost that much to set up a small buiness which will entitle you to a work permit. Those with a bit of cash, and want to do something with their lives should check it out.

[pistonpilot]

You have to come in Thailand with a non immigrant visa then you go to the immigration to ask for a retirement visa and show that you have 800.000 bath on a thai account bank and show that the money come from your country which have to be bank to bank you can use that account but you need to show next year that you still have 800.000 bath on that account and you need to show your bankbook + a atest from that bank an a medical atest.

Best regards

Albert

Taking travelers checks and cashing them at the bank (at least Bangkok Bank) gets them entered into your account as a foreign transaction.

The code used in my bankbook is the same as the wired code.

[BKK90210]

okay here is a hypothetical situation:

an american comes to thailand to live. but he has a job in america. he can do the work from his house in thailand, everything works over the internet. the money is deposited in his US account, nothing passes over thailand's borders. this american has a house and family in thailand, and takes nothing from thai society, in fact he is ONLY contributing by spending his US-made money here. he stays on a tourist visa- triple entry from penang. no point in trying to get a non-imm, as he does not have en employer in thailand to write the letter to get the visa. it should be perfectly alright for him to live on a tourist visa.

what happens to this person now? when he has used up his first 90 days of the triple entry visa (60 days + extension), if after Oct. 1, would they make him leave the country for 90 days before he could come back in, or would they just renew for another 90 days (60 days + extension) as usual?

Thanks for any input.

I'm in the same situation.....An american married to a thai, will be living in thailand, has a job(my own company) in US, will do all my works from my home in thailand via the internet, $$$ will be deposited in my US account....all my clients are US base only.

I will be getting non-O visa. I'm working with Sunbelt on getting the working permit, however the thai labor dept said no working permit needed in my case and the labor dept is issuing me a clearance letter in writing to reconfirm this, because I want this document in writing just in case there will be a problem later on during my visa extension.

[PeaceBlondie]

Crises or emergencies come in differing levels. Living in a foreign country, your immigrant status is way too important, and any threat to it is a big deal.

Of course, we all have opinions, and with 33,000 opinions on ThaiVisa, on a subject of major interest, we all want to say our comments, at least once.

Maybe it's a tempest in a teacup, as many such pronouncements by Thai government officials often are. But the xenophobia's getting sharp enough to cut with a knife, and the political party in power isn't named "Thais Love Farang."

I haven't met many farang in more than three years (a couple hundred?), but some of them, decent people, include:

Retired military, early 40's, pension maybe 55K, no savings in Thailand.

American on SS, pension maybe 40K, no savings

Canadian, under 50, not retired or working, lives off his investments but isn't going to put 800K in a Thai savings account

Brit, no pension, trying to teach, no papers

Lots of farang teachers from native speaking countries, working for schools that simply don't give them work permits or visa help, and all these schools are either government owned, or owned by educated, rich Thai citizens.

Discount the rumours 80%, add back in the other things, and you've got Trouble, capital T, right here in River City. If that makes me a fear monger, so be it.

[chanchao]

Ok, so many posts, might as well add some of my own..

* So far the only source to this is a short article in a foreign magazine/website. You can't make any conclusions out of this one, chances are not everything relating to this change is mentioned.

* It would make sense to enforce this for people who (mis)use the 30 day visa free stay to stay indefinitely.

* It would NOT makes sense to enforce this for expats working in Hong Kong or Singapore who make frequent weekend trips into Thailand to play golf or chase girls or both. Passports will quickly show which is which: 10 trips of 3 days each, or 29 day stays followed by a same-day foray into Cambodia or Burma... Not hard to tell the difference.

So.. unless more information is made available, preferably directly from the immigration department, I'll shut up again.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[fourbaht]

The only real news article I have seen is the one in the Nation which refers to VOA. The Visa On Arrival is different from the 30 day Tourist Permit. Understand the difference between VOA and Permit? The Visa on Arrival facility is going to be limited. I haven't seen anything from any news source that says the 30 day permits will be disallowed. I think some people are blowing this out of proportion.

Read post #1 in this thread.

Which article in The Nation are you referring to?

George

I cant see anything in the original posts that affects those that have either embassy issued tourist visa's or O or B visa's.

Can any one clarify this is it just VOA 30 day back to backs that are affected or not.?

[cyborgx]

Thanks for the clarification, although I would still like to hear from someone who has actually done it.

I also note that (even though it is also in the family section) they say as usual but very concerningly "The visa privilege conditions, extension periods, and fees are subject to change by the office of the Immigration Bureau"

Pay Bt.1M then lose the visa priveledges some time later. Perhaps not the solution I was hoping for.

Guess I'll have to go the investment route, but so far, all I have met are barriers and difficulties buying goverment bonds.

[pistonpilot]

I suspect a lot of people will be washing or losing their passports. Maybe this is a plot hatched by the USA and UK to increase passport issuance.

At 70 dollars per passport (USA) it could amount to a lot of money.

New passport, no stamps.

My friend who does back to back tourist visas for years and is from UK has been warned about 2 months ago. His Tourist Visa(2+1) obtained in Vienchen had a "red stamp" along side visa sticker. It stated something like "Upon exiting Thailand admitance back to Thailand may not be allowed."

I look for this red stamp to be used as a flag for these visa runners. They have no intention of stranding anybody but will warn them. You will then have to get your things in order. I bet this starts on Oct 1st.

It might not be so difficult to thumb through your passport and see how many entrys have been made over the last three months. If you are a tourist then you will have multiple stamps out of the country with some lenght of stay.

I am a tourist and I do travel so I am interested on how they will treat me. If there is too much of a problem then I will just spend my tourist dollars some place else.

LLL

[A_Traveller]

I suspect a lot of people will be washing or losing their passports. Maybe this is a plot hatched by the USA and UK to increase passport issuance.

At 70 dollars per passport (USA) it could amount to a lot of money.

New passport, no stamps.

Not sure that's as true as it once was. The computer system, though it's on-line at only 15 locations, is designed to track, and at some stage you either have to get the visa transfered from old to new passport, or present both passports at exit.

Regards

[lecter]

For the Cry babies...

Get a VISA.

Owning Land illegal? Yes, I suppose, but if you are in a trusted relationship, it's not an issue, and the banks will even lend you money to buy it!!

Also, if you are a regular tourist, you're fine.

For the pathetic "I'll take my money elsewhere" dribble from some. Where boys? If there was somewhere else, all you little moaning bitches would be there already.

If you are a regular visitor, get an APEC card. 90 day VISA's on every visit (If you come from an APEC country, Aus NZ, Sing, HK) and as many times as you like.

or...

Invest some money (men of straw stay away) and get a real VISA...

did I mention, get a VISA?

Wanna live here, but want it for free? Times they are a changing. Most will just get the correct documents and get a VISA. For the losers, time to leave chaps!

I know it sounds harsh..... But you have to give something for living in Paradise.

:-)

[Big Dogster]

Immigration can print out all entry and exit history for any passport at anytime. They dont need to shuffle thru pages looking for stamps. If someone washes or loses a passport, immi can check it anyway

[pistonpilot]

A crisis this is,

(I have a 12 month visa and will easily be able to renew it when it expires, but that is easy for me to say and do. Just becasue you can achiecve something dosent mean other will)

It seems to me that everyone who bitches about this, says something such as "I don't have the time" or "I'm too busy".

Border running is costly, has to be more costly than doing it properly. Time and the money involve add up. That's the part I don't understand, they say they don't have the time to do it properly but have the time to sit on a bus eating a packed lunch and watching bad movies.

c'mon.

[bendix]

I for one find it appalling that the Thai Government has the audacity to unilaterally decide to enforce the spirit of its (lax) immigration laws. I mean, where does it get that right?

Surely us poor farang have a god-given right to circumvent the rules and live here forever on a 30 day tourist visa?

Let's get some perspective. Thailand is trying to enhance its image in the world. The bottom-dweller farang may not like that, but it's a fact. This move is not aimed at genuine tourists and it is not aimed at genuine farang with jobs, wives, families or a desire (and the wherewithal) to live in Thailand. It IS aimed at low-lifes such as the guy I'm aware of who has done visa runs for 15 years and currently earns a living taking sex tourists on escorted trips of the nightlife, never having paid a satang in tax in 15 years. It's aimed at deadbeat Khao San hippies. It's aimed at enhancing the quality of teachers and avoiding another Karr incident.

Sadly, some decent people will get caught up in it too. That's a shame. Innocents are always caught in cross-fire

But, as I've said before, being here is a privilege, not a right. Just being a good guy and wanting to be here is not enough; we are obliged to live by the laws of our hosts.

And, if we don't like it? The answer is simple, isnt it?

[Monkey Boy]

It'll be against the law to chew gum next! I am offshore working outside of Thailand going home (Thailand) 6th of Oct. I have 3 30 day chops in my passport already. A wife and 3 kids waiting for me to come home. All my documents for applying for a visa are at my home in LOS. This is going to be real convenient. What a load of ****!!! Maybe I'll just pack up the wifey and kids and go back to Falangland. I wish they would have done this in the springtime.

I'm ready to beam you up and out. You have a THAI wife and kids? If that is so, then why didn't you just do the 1 year extension to a proper non-immigrant visa for supporting your wife and kids?

If you are outside the country, get off your lazy ass and visit a Thai Embassy to get the proper visa.

Jesus.

"Lazy Ass" Did you not read the part about WORKING!!! I would and have done several times. Some of us lazy asses are to busy working and and raising our children to run off and get visa's. Especially when you have the option to get a tourist visa. Thanks for your insightfull and helpfull coment though.

Heard of mail? Fedex? No excuse - go visit an embassy or send your passport to one.

Have you not got better things to do then antagonise people who are trying to work through a crisis

To me, it is sheer madness to be working illegally in another country, and have wife and kids in same, risking all for the sake of a little convenience. If your employer cannot or will not provide you with the correct documentation for visas, then you must form your own company, do your own visas and work permit etc. I spent my first months here working for a company that promised visa, work permit etc. and of course never came through. I will never again trust my own legal status with someone who has no investment in it. If I go to jail, they simply find a replacement for the foriegn "criminal" who used to work for them. No thanks. I'll buck up, pay my fees, file my taxes and be left alone please.

1. He says he is working offshore and that could be offshore anywhere. Doesnt have to be Thailand. Is even unlikely as there is much more business elsewhere.

2. As you never know when/where you go you cannot send passports off as sure when you have done it you may have to go elsewhere...

Same going through that application, if married and not just aq girlfriend like most of use.

3. Personally I would check with an immigration office, not the one where you might want to apply and find out what you really need to do it with a visum, to make it into a Yearvisum and not loose passport during the application period or have it cancelled to start all over again!!

Also if your work is in Thailand if near Malaysia no way to go via Malaysia as then you have a one month Malaysia stamp....

Its easy for others to say get a proper Visa or push off, but for some of us, like some of the guys mentioned previously, we do have a problem getting a one year Visa.

1. Personally, I work in the Caspian Sea on a platform on a 6/2 rota.

2. We don't have access to a Thai Embassy or Consulate to apply for a Non Imm O Visa.

3. It is not advisable (and illegal) to FEDEX your passport out of the country to another Embassy.

Yes I could go back to the UK to get a Non Imm O visa and not see my (Thai) wife and children for nearly 4 months.

I did speak to an immigration officer previously before this news broke and was informed that even if I did get an Non Imm O Visa I had to stay in Thailand for 90 days before I could apply for a 9 month extension to make it a one year Visa. I can't see my company paying me to sit on the beach while I wait for the extension.

If the problem is only consective back to back Visas, I guess myself and others in a similar position should still be ok. If it is 3 Visa stamps within a certain time period and then a break of 90 days, then we could be on a sticky wicket.

It would be a shame if we did have to pull up stumps and look elsewhere to live as I know that myself and my colleagues are not bums abusing the Thai people, but geniue hard working guys who do contribute to the Thai Society that we live within.

[Tod Daniels]

Don't confuse a Tourist VISA which is valid for stays of 30 or 60 days and applied for BEFORE you come to the Kingdom in your home country's Thai embassy and a PERMISSION TO STAY stamp issued to the list of countries posted earlier. They are NOT the same. There is NO VISA issued to US, UK, EU nationals when they enter Thailand, the passport is stamped w/a Permisson to stay until stamp.

It is NOT a VOA, as there is no Visa stamped into the book. Some countries can apply for VOA, but the US, UK, and EU are not in that group.

If you read the articles (which are as ambiguously written like all things Thai), it is only the 30 day permission to stay stamps which seem to be limited to 3 in a row, then a 90 day break, then another 3 in a row.

Tourist VISAS, (even Non-Immigrant Multiple Re-entry Type O or are easily available from US, EU, UK Thai Embassy's.

Granted the people working on the 30 day permission to stay stamps will be put under pressure to get "legal", (another ambiguous term here in LOS), but few people who work in the teaching, or private industry will be affected, nor will most tourists, who's stays here are less than 90 days.

This opinion is that of the author, no expressed or implied warranty, your mileage may vary, DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS AT HOME...

ท็อดด์ แดเนียลส์: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Todd Daniels; Krung Thep Mahanakhon

[yankeechief]

What about the retired US military who do not meet the monetary requirement for a retirement visa and have 12 months of back to back visas? Will they say sorry you have too many stamps at the end of the month you must leave and oh by the way, you will lose your deposit on your apartment.

[kiakaha]

I presume APEC card holders, who get 90 day permits on arrival and use the special APEC lane at the airport, will be immune as the APEC card is for accredited and verfied business travellers.

[pistonpilot]

Non O based on a house rental agreement. sounds like a scam to me. I suppose u expect to be able to do this every year. Not a chance

Why a scam?

I had a rental agreement. I got a non-o visa. I asked for it. Got it.

I came. Got married. Wife's pregnant. I'm renting a house.

Next year I'll probably rent a house.

I'll do the 1 year extension in a week.

Again, why a scam?

[bendix]

yes, Yankee. Because it's a well known fact that the Dept of Immigration is, in fact, a front organisation for the Secret Thai Landlord Mafia.

Jeez . . . a country tries to enforce its laws and . . .. . . .

[sjaak327]

Now as funny as I find this for all the visa runners who have now got to actually get the correct legal visa or sod off. I mean what would happen in the UK if people were doing it!

There is a large problem from my view as from 2 weeks time me and my Lao wife are moving to Laos to build a house (I will have a full 1 year immgration visa in Laos) - however we will be frequently needing to nip over to Nong Khai for provisions etc. what is supposed to happen then? We'll only be over the border then back in the same day - this a regular thing for Lao and Thai people doing trade in Laos/Thailand.

So does this change mean it can't happen - as it'll completely ###### up many things there. I would imagine there is work around for this for people entering from the country of there legal abode? As it just won't make sense otherwise.

Oh by the way all you visa runners don't come Laos . . . Thanks.

You can't extend your Visa for 90 days anyway so there is no point!

Edit: Why do people think people who are truly holidaying in Thailand will care that the holiday visa rules have been tightened? The only people who are totally against it are people who are living and working in Thailand illegally by doing visa runs.

Other people who travel frequently in and out of thailand for business and trade - are the ones with genuine concerns over it.

All this has come about because of abuse and mis use of the tourist visa that has been going on for years.

If you are coming in for business ect. you need to get a legally recognised visa to do so.

You cannot come in as a tourist and do business ect.

I used to get a non imm. B multi entry visa soley for the purpose of this and trade ect.

As for casual workers, they in my humble opinion are the main architecs of this clamp down along with the people who have spent ex amount of time hopping over the border for what ever reasons.

Now they have clamped down so o.k. you,ve had a good run and it,s now finnished, be grateful, for what you,ve got away with, calm down and be reasonable

No matter what your take is on this the fact is Immigration laws are there to be obeyed and it is not just relevant to Thailand.

A tourist as i see it will not be effected by this change.

If you want to stay for a longer period other than what is laid down then apply for the relevant visa as the majority of sensible visitors do.

It really is no big deal and will hopefully make it better in the long term.

Who knows, the powers in charge after the next election may change and be more sympathetic to the ones who need it most, don,t have much flexability, in lots of cases and have a personal interest in the well being of Thailand through their ties.

Families and Dependants.

Stay coollllllllllllllllllllllllll, read up on the Imm. laws and find an alternative visa that suits your genuine needs.

If you cannot find it then T.Visa have very good, competent experts on the visa section who are more than willing to assist all of us.

marshbags

P.S.

They,ve possibly introduced this change to come into effect before the new airport opens, yes i know tourists arrive via other methods but the majority will fly in.

In my humble opinion.

Of course tourist will be affected by this new law. It's simple, you get three consecutive entries no more. As I stated before, this is the end of Thailand as a travel hub, use Singapore next time...

[Totster]

Can any one clarify this is it just VOA 30 day back to backs that are affected or not.?

This is how I understand it.

totster

[A_Traveller]

Well Troy....

.. It's aimed at enhancing the quality of teachers and avoiding another Karr incident. The irony here is there is no evidence that Karr did 30 day back to backs, indeed he came back from Malaysia with an O visa and the Commisioner created confusion about this by saying at the Karr press conference that 'he {Karr} was a tourist, like you..' {answering a Falang journalist, to much laughter in the room}

Sadly, some decent people will get caught up in it too. That's a shame. Innocents are always caught in cross-fire True.

But, as I've said before, being here is a privilege, not a right. Just being a good guy and wanting to be here is not enough; we are obliged to live by the laws of our hosts. But it is to be hoped that a clear statement will emerge on this soonest, the press reports are confusing. What about the liability issue for the 'conveyance'?

And, if we don't like it? The answer is simple, isnt it?

/edit for id//

Edited September 11, 2006 by A_Traveller

[marquess]

Having been married for five years, and having been on the Non Immigrant O, I have preferred to go in and out every three months, rather than leave 400k in a Thai Bank with no interest and a constantly depreciating currency. There will no doubt be those, who don't have the 400k. It would be a big scandal internationally if they start seperating families. Then again they are so dense, that I wouldnt' be surprised it they tried, only the loss of face seems to instill any semblance of common sense, to officialdom!

Depreciating against what currency?

When I first got here six and a half years ago, it was 22 Baht to the Australian Dollar and 18 to the Kiwi now the Auzzie is 29 to the Baht, that is already a 25% loss in value and against the British Pound it was 52, as opposed to 71 now a 27% loss. Hence you would have to be getting a pretty hefty rate of interest on your 400k over the last six years to off set, those levels of depreciation, I speak only about these currencies as they are the ones that I have my money in.

[Thaiquila]

What about the retired US military who do not meet the monetary requirement for a retirement visa and have 12 months of back to back visas? Will they say sorry you have too many stamps at the end of the month you must leave and oh by the way, you will lose your deposit on your apartment.

How much is your military pension? If it is under 800K per annum, I suppose your only option is go back to the US and save the money to make up the difference for the Thai bank account. Then you can come to Thailand. Just checking to make sure you understand the financial requirements ... if you have a pension, you might not be far off qualifying.

[tararam]

Rent a cheap appartment in Laos. Here is not all that problems. And its even cheaper than Thailand.

3 month here and then 3 month in Thailand. ....lol

[Big Dogster]

Non O based on a house rental agreement. sounds like a scam to me. I suppose u expect to be able to do this every year. Not a chance

Why a scam?

I had a rental agreement. I got a non-o visa. I asked for it. Got it.

I came. Got married. Wife's pregnant. I'm renting a house.

Next year I'll probably rent a house.

I'll do the 1 year extension in a week.

Again, why a scam?

Oh I see, that explains everything. No you're right, not a scam. You've got a load of other problems, visa should not be one of them. I prefer my visa problems to the probs you have. what a nightmare. And let me tell you something, your tone toward anyone caught up in this visa nitemare is not very understanding or nice. I'm a caring and sympathetc person, I sympathize with you and the quagmire you are caught up in as well as the visa people. I am glad though that you bring to light how much worse a situation can be

Edited September 11, 2006 by Big Dogster

[A_Traveller]

What about the retired US military who do not meet the monetary requirement for a retirement visa and have 12 months of back to back visas? Will they say sorry you have too many stamps at the end of the month you must leave and oh by the way, you will lose your deposit on your apartment.

Might this help?

Retirement Visa

A copy of bank statement showing a deposit at the amount equal to not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthy income totalling not less than 800,000 Baht.

Regards

[Thaiquila]

Rent a cheap appartment in Laos. Here is not all that problems. And its even cheaper than Thailand.

3 month here and then 3 month in Thailand. ....lol

Funny thing, I just had that idea.

For the true visa runners who can't manage or don't want to manage another kind of visa, I propose Thaivisa start a new forum for called Visa Runner Apartment/Country Exchange.

Heres the concept.

Hook up with another runner. Runner A rents an apartment in Thailand. Runner B rents an apartment in Cambodia, Laos, or Malaysia. Like clockwork, every 3 months, MUSICAL CHAIRS!

Kind of like timeshare. What dya think?

[dalmatian]

I beg to disagree with the post by BENDIX shown below:

*****************************************************************

Bendix reply :

Let's get some perspective. Thailand is trying to enhance its image in the world. The bottom-dweller farang may not like that, but it's a fact. This move is not aimed at genuine tourists and it is not aimed at genuine farang with jobs, wives, families or a desire (and the wherewithal) to live in Thailand. It IS aimed at low-lifes such as the guy I'm aware of who has done visa runs for 15 years and currently earns a living taking sex tourists on escorted trips of the nightlife, never having paid a satang in tax in 15 years. It's aimed at deadbeat Khao San hippies. It's aimed at enhancing the quality of teachers and avoiding another Karr incident.

*******************************************************************

Well if the above is the case why is it that my wife (37 years of age - non-thai) will no longer be able to stay in Thailand with me as a dependent on my retirement visa.

Part of my post on the Dependent topic below:

Please advise where this information is in regards to immigration as you have made me most concerned. Do I tell my wife that even though I am retired here she can no longer live with me and must return to UK or I pay an extra 800,000 so that she can stay with me. Please advise as this has serious implications on my desire to stay in this country. I own a house in a company name (which could soon be a problem) and now they wish to tell me my wife is no longer a desirable person. Also on the basis of maybe paying another 800,000 this would not be her money as she does not work so in effect I am being asked for 1.6 million to retire here.

And the reply from Sunbelt :

Sorry it is worse than that. She don't qualify by just having 800,000 Baht in the bank as she is not over 50 years old! She has to meet the criteria somehow else, either by a investment visa, education or business but not on retirement.

Nothing has been published yet. We have been told it will be October 1st 2006 but they are enforcing this ruling in Bangkok now.

And you guys think you have got it hard! I suppose Thailand just wants me to tell my wife to go back to UK while I stay here, well it looks like the two of us will be moving out and the 600,000 baht a year I add to the Thai economy will just have to go elsewhere.

LOS, my a**

[bendix]

I would have thought it was obvious that i meant married to a Thai. If you're married to a farang, she is obviously restricted to the same immigration laws as anyone else, and as Sunbelt says, she doesnt qualify for retirement visa.

Again, you have the choice to live here or not. Both of you have the right to stay (on their terms) or leave, on your own.

Someone married to a Thai might not be able to leave so freely, hence the more equitable visa situation for them.

Life is simple, innit?

And, let's get it into perspective. You're not being asked for 800,000. It's still your money. You just have to show you have those funds so you can support yourself or perhaps you would prefer if the Thai government supported you?

Edited September 11, 2006 by bendix