Thai university students score 7/100 for English test

[Jeremy50]

Was the student in an English class or was it just a random student ?

anyone have a link to the " English Delivery by Chris program "

there seems more to this story that is not posted.....

Come to your own conclusions about this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAjDbj0gmrg

Oh! he is a Thai guy, I was expecting a westerner. It's a pity he has to talk about 'farangs' when he could so easily use the more respectful term 'foreign people'. My students never call me 'farang', though out on the streets I have to hear it every 5 minutes, along with 'gluey' [banana], 'maleng', [insect], 'hean' [lizzard], 'paksida' [guava]. I wonder if Thai people realize how hurtful this can be when inflicted day after day after day, or are they just without empathy, or is the hurt intended? The other day a British politician had to make a full media apology to a Thai lady living in England, at her home, face to face, in front of TV cameras, after he had referred to Thais as 'dting tong'. The painful irony of it!

[overherebc]

“The students nowadays fail because they just don't give a shit about studying and reading and they know that if most of the class fail, the whole class will still pass to the next course and finally graduate. Why? Coz you can't fail students in this country and make them repeat classes,” Wright said in the post.

The problem of the Thai education system in a nutshell.

+ 1.

Nothing will change until there'a complete overall haul of the system and that's not going to happen because it suits everybody the way it is.

A few years after the Asian Economic Community comes into being, Thais will have their eyes opened at how disadvantaged they are (self imposed). Much poorer countries such as Burma, Laos, and Cambodia produce students whose English proficiency should shame Thailand into action. At the moment, they are shielded but when AEC fully kicks in, they will get a rude awakening. I don't think their IQs are especially low but the common Thais are academically lazy. When they are being house boys or maids to educated Indonesians, maybe they will insist their children do better in school. Of course currently, the schools are more day-care than education institutions.

they will insist their children do better

Can I change that to they will insist that that they can pay more to get a better degree.

[Emster23]

On a level with BBC presenters (Junta with a J rather than "Hunta") & EPL announcers mangling names (Kag awa for Ka ga wa, as it is Japanese, Gomes when should be Go mez, etc etc)

[trogers]

So how do Thai students go overseas for post-secondary education get in the door of a USA College/University, and yet graduate!

See the Benz and BMW in the garage?

[uty6543]

Was the student in an English class or was it just a random student ?

anyone have a link to the " English Delivery by Chris program "

there seems more to this story that is not posted.....

Come to your own conclusions about this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAjDbj0gmrg

My wife is a teacher and teaches English at her school and does the same as this guy is doing. He is speaking Thai (mostly) and expecting the children to learn English. It wont work.

An English lesson should IMO be almost 100% English with translations to Thai only for words that cannot be demonstrated or shown in a picture.

[trogers]

Poor quality of the teachers and laziness of the student, coupled with the 'no-fail' policy.

Now we see the merry-go-round.

[janpharma]

“The students nowadays fail because they just don't give a shit about studying and reading and they know that if most of the class fail, the whole class will still pass to the next course and finally graduate. Why? Coz you can't fail students in this country and make them repeat classes,” Wright said in the post.

The problem of the Thai education system in a nutshell.

+ 1.

Nothing will change until there'a complete overall haul of the system and that's not going to happen because it suits everybody the way it is.

A few years after the Asian Economic Community comes into being, Thais will have their eyes opened at how disadvantaged they are (self imposed). Much poorer countries such as Burma, Laos, and Cambodia produce students whose English proficiency should shame Thailand into action. At the moment, they are shielded but when AEC fully kicks in, they will get a rude awakening. I don't think their IQs are especially low but the common Thais are academically lazy. When they are being house boys or maids to educated Indonesians, maybe they will insist their children do better in school. Of course currently, the schools are more day-care than education institutions.

Thai will not open their eyes and are already at the tail of ASEAN. And as long as teachers can buy their job, nothing will change...

[robblok]

Fact is English is not used here a lot by normal Thais. I would say its far more important to teach them other skills. However doctors and others that need it for their job should be taught better. But to say that everyone has to learn English here in a country where its almost not used. Why.. just some extra stuff they will never use.

Only to make some farangs happy that can't speak Thai themselves ?

Mind you I am talking here about Somchai in the motorcycle shop or Mai in the 711.. not Nung behind the counter of a hotel. Its not needed for everyone, so a lot of time is wasted. Just put extra effort in those who need it and forget about the rest.

I remember I had to learn to speak German, I hated it.. even though the Netherlands and Germany were trade partners many of us would never use German. So it was easy for us to dump it after a year or so. The same should be done to English for those who don't need it. There are enough resources wasted in Thai education why make it worse.

I am of course 100% against passing everyone that is crazy for any subject.

[Mr Somtam]

Well, why on earth would one write the English pronunciation for the word? Surely an oral exam is a better option.

But then how would one cheat?

Cheating at an ORAL exam , hmmmm,

[Mr Somtam]

students cant fail a degree, is this correct? whats the point of having one then? it would mean nothing apart from student managed to pay for course for four years

For most universities and schools this is true.

A Thai university graduate in English has never read a book and can't put one sentence together when spoken to. When I was 16 I was reading Shakespeare in school...

[trogers]

Fact is English is not used here a lot by normal Thais. I would say its far more important to teach them other skills. However doctors and others that need it for their job should be taught better. But to say that everyone has to learn English here in a country where its almost not used. Why.. just some extra stuff they will never use.

Only to make some farangs happy that can't speak Thai themselves ?

Mind you I am talking here about Somchai in the motorcycle shop or Mai in the 711.. not Nung behind the counter of a hotel. Its not needed for everyone, so a lot of time is wasted. Just put extra effort in those who need it and forget about the rest.

I remember I had to learn to speak German, I hated it.. even though the Netherlands and Germany were trade partners many of us would never use German. So it was easy for us to dump it after a year or so. The same should be done to English for those who don't need it. There are enough resources wasted in Thai education why make it worse.

I am of course 100% against passing everyone that is crazy for any subject.

This article discussed about University undergrads, not some grade school students in the province.

When AEC kicks off, even SMCs might be of foreign investors looking for English-speaking staff.

[atyclb]

Well, why on earth would one write the English pronunciation for the word? Surely an oral exam is a better option.

But then how would one cheat?

because its the same as when english language is used to teach thai word pronunciation. as in transliteration or karaoke language since most non thais cannot read thai. in the instance in the article the students apparently can read english and they r being tested for pronunciation ability.

[JAG]

students cant fail a degree, is this correct? whats the point of having one then? it would mean nothing apart from student managed to pay for course for four years

For most universities and schools this is true.

A Thai university graduate in English has never read a book and can't put one sentence together when spoken to. When I was 16 I was reading Shakespeare in school...

Was that in English classes or current affairs? :)

[robblok]

Fact is English is not used here a lot by normal Thais. I would say its far more important to teach them other skills. However doctors and others that need it for their job should be taught better. But to say that everyone has to learn English here in a country where its almost not used. Why.. just some extra stuff they will never use.

Only to make some farangs happy that can't speak Thai themselves ?

Mind you I am talking here about Somchai in the motorcycle shop or Mai in the 711.. not Nung behind the counter of a hotel. Its not needed for everyone, so a lot of time is wasted. Just put extra effort in those who need it and forget about the rest.

I remember I had to learn to speak German, I hated it.. even though the Netherlands and Germany were trade partners many of us would never use German. So it was easy for us to dump it after a year or so. The same should be done to English for those who don't need it. There are enough resources wasted in Thai education why make it worse.

I am of course 100% against passing everyone that is crazy for any subject.

This article discussed about University undergrads, not some grade school students in the province.

When AEC kicks off, even SMCs might be of foreign investors looking for English-speaking staff.

For university in the relevant fields of course English is needed but its not equally needed everywhere. What I suggest is to teach it good to those who need it (concentrate the resources there). Don't teach it to those who don't want it and probably don't need it. Its real frustrating learning something you don't need.

The only time I ever failed a subject was because it had no relevance and I just could not bring myself to study the subject as it was bone dry and had no relevance to my future job. Motivation is quite important when studying.

[JonnyF]

So how do Thai students go overseas for post-secondary education get in the door of a USA College/University, and yet graduate!

Not all of them are lame ducks.

Actually the vast majority of these students are from international schools who teach a totally different curriculum to a much higher standard. The teachers are generally native English speakers who are qualified and experienced in teaching in their home countries, not TEFL'ers who themselves speak English as a second language.

This level of education is reserved for the relatively wealthy as the school fees are very high. This maintains the status quo quite nicely.

[robblok]

students cant fail a degree, is this correct? whats the point of having one then? it would mean nothing apart from student managed to pay for course for four years

For most universities and schools this is true.

A Thai university graduate in English has never read a book and can't put one sentence together when spoken to. When I was 16 I was reading Shakespeare in school...

Was that in English classes or current affairs?

The guy is Dutch.. so probably in English classes.

[Riggi]

The test in the photo is ridiculous.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to write the correct pronunciation in Thai script because there is no equivalent sound (Thai being a phonetic script) to /ʃ/ which is used in "inspiration" and "tuition".

Similarly, there is no way to represent /v/ using Thai script. This is one of the most problematic sounds for Thai learners to pronounce (partly because it doesn't exist in Thai) and the exam writer has seen fit to include 4 words with this sound!

There is also no Thai equivalent to the first vowel sound in "island" (/aɪ/), or the first vowel sound in "vacant" ( /eɪ/).

7/100 is still incredibly poor, but needs to be considered in the context that it is impossible to write the correct pronunciation for more than half of the words in the example.

[CindyB]

Well, why on earth would one write the English pronunciation for the word? Surely an oral exam is a better option.

But then how would one cheat?

Do you have any idea of how long it would take to administer an oral exam to a class of 30, let alone a university class of (probably) more than 150? A group of 23 6th graders, identifying 15 vocabulary and using each word in a sentence, took 2.5 hours.

[trogers]

Well, why on earth would one write the English pronunciation for the word? Surely an oral exam is a better option.

But then how would one cheat?

Do you have any idea of how long it would take to administer an oral exam to a class of 30, let alone a university class of (probably) more than 150? A group of 23 6th graders, identifying 15 vocabulary and using each word in a sentence, took 2.5 hours.

About 15 minutes per student?

[soalbundy]

Its bad when I am English and i help my son with his homework. Then the next day his Thai - English teacher says no good. This bad... I feel like going to school and teaching the teacher bloody English.

Are they really teaching my son crap...Yes they are. And 2 are English men( 1 thai ) working at the school, I wonder if they can count to 3????

I find that the teacher relies on my son for correct pronunciation. I let him look at English speaking programmes and cartoons on Youtube which unfortunately has started to give him an American accent. If the teacher starts to correct his English into Thainglish i certainly would go to the school and give her a mouthful.

[whaleboneman]

A couple of years back my Thai daughter came to me wanting help with an English homework test paper that she had been given at her (primary) school. There were about 50 questions to be answered of the multiple choice type. I couldn't help but notice that almost all of the questions (in English) had mistakes, spelling, punctuation or gramattical. I answered the questions for her and then with a red ballpoint pen proceeded to correct all the errors in the test paper.

This was somewhat foolish of me as I should have realised that by showing up the teachers ignorance of the language that he was supposed to be teaching, he would loose face.

My duughter still comes to me for help with her English homework, but insists that I only write on the exam paper in pencil so that she can erase anything that might be contentious.

The Thai education system is hopeless.

"I answered the questions for her".

And how does that help with her English?

[trogers]

Its bad when I am English and i help my son with his homework. Then the next day his Thai - English teacher says no good. This bad... I feel like going to school and teaching the teacher bloody English.

Are they really teaching my son crap...Yes they are. And 2 are English men( 1 thai ) working at the school, I wonder if they can count to 3????

I find that the teacher relies on my son for correct pronunciation. I let him look at English speaking programmes and cartoons on Youtube which unfortunately has started to give him an American accent. If the teacher starts to correct his English into Thainglish i certainly would go to the school and give her a mouthful.

Why the high-brow? All Asians speak their own accents of English. Would you speak down to an Aussie?

[soalbundy]

So how do Thai students go overseas for post-secondary education get in the door of a USA College/University, and yet graduate!

Yingluck managed it, speaks volumes.

[uty6543]

Fact is English is not used here a lot by normal Thais. I would say its far more important to teach them other skills. However doctors and others that need it for their job should be taught better. But to say that everyone has to learn English here in a country where its almost not used. Why.. just some extra stuff they will never use.

Only to make some farangs happy that can't speak Thai themselves ?

Mind you I am talking here about Somchai in the motorcycle shop or Mai in the 711.. not Nung behind the counter of a hotel. Its not needed for everyone, so a lot of time is wasted. Just put extra effort in those who need it and forget about the rest.

I remember I had to learn to speak German, I hated it.. even though the Netherlands and Germany were trade partners many of us would never use German. So it was easy for us to dump it after a year or so. The same should be done to English for those who don't need it. There are enough resources wasted in Thai education why make it worse.

I am of course 100% against passing everyone that is crazy for any subject.

I think all Thai's should learn at least basic English as it would give them many more opportunities for work and travel.

We (English speaking people) can travel to most countries as most speak some English. Can you imagine a Thai arriving at Heathrow airport not speaking a world of English they would have difficulty getting out of the airport.

And workwise it would give them the earning potential they dream of for even the lowest workers.

I would like to see all countries (in time) adopt English as their first language and keep their national language as a second language. What use is the Thai language outside of Thailand?

Edit: Who knows what language they want or need in 5 or 10 years from now.

Edited May 21, 2015 by uty6543

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

students cant fail a degree, is this correct? whats the point of having one then? it would mean nothing apart from student managed to pay for course for four years

Yep... I think... your idea above is the point. The non-failure of failing students here means the university degrees, overall, are pretty much worth the paper they're printed on.

Of course, that doesn't mean that individual students can't choose to apply themselves, learn their course material and come away with some form of a real education.

But English proficiency is only one part of the broader picture. There's also the framework of the entire higher education system here that doesn't really encourage intellectual exploration, challenging, and learning to think for one's self. That's where they're really falling down, in addition to failing to enforce academic standards.

[pedro01]

Typical Thai bashing thread.

I've employed over 100 graduates here, many with perfect English, some with poorer English.

To say they all "can't give a shit about learning" is absolute nonsense.

There are many very smart people here who would have done well at any school.

[jaaaason]

I have helped students at both Payap U.and Chiang Mai U. with some studies. I have been amazed by the large number of students that will copy something directly from a source without citing it. Additionally I have found that cheating in exams is rampant. Teachers do nothing about it. Students will even text answers to each other in the classroom during tests. As with what has been said here , I did ask a few Thai teachers (university level) concerning these matters. The answers were it doesn't matter , they would still have to pass them. That is the truth about "some" of the problems with the Thai educational system. Additionally I have had extreme difficulty in having a conversation with three separate Thai English teachers , they were unable to understand the content of my sentences while discussing some of these matters. It took several attempts at and the use of several different words to have a small polite exchange , even though they were the English teachers......for what it is worth ( But as a side note I have found that the Burmese students have a far greater comprehension of English)

[catweazle]

As shocking as the test result is, the outcome should not surprise anyone. As long as learning here is based on dull repetition conducted by unskilled and clueless teachers in a system where any student is just waved through with a smile, regardless how weak he is, nothing will change. Thailand is in denial and might wake up once the ASEAN thing gets going with well educated asians flooding the market. It was a long fall, but the final impact will be hard and devastating for this country.

Edited May 21, 2015 by catweazle

[scorecard]

“The students nowadays fail because they just don't give a shit about studying and reading and they know that if most of the class fail, the whole class will still pass to the next course and finally graduate. Why? Coz you can't fail students in this country and make them repeat classes,” Wright said in the post.

The problem of the Thai education system in a nutshell.

"That's it in a nut shell!" I was going to say that! It's bloody ridiculous and reflects poorly on the country as a whole.

They 'couldn't give a shit' often translates to:

They turn up late, often very late for class, often miss all morning of a full day classes or all afternoon. Excuses like 'had to go with my sister to pick up her new car' and even lamer excuses.

Plus the lecturer has to keep telling many again and again to stop talking and listen.

Plus many lecturers now stop and approach one of the talkers and say 'what did I just say?' The response is 'I don't know'. Often with arrogance.

Cheating in exams still abounds even though if caught they are removed from the room with an automatic F (which at my university is changed to I (Incomplete) and they can sit again. I refuse to conduct an extra exam for these students, many lecturers do the same.)

Plus continuous talking or texting on their mobile phone. I now go through the ritual at the start of every class:

- Up to 5 minutes late you can join the class, over 5 minutes late cannot enter the room. Under 80% overall attendance cannot sit for exams.

- Tell the whole class to turn their mobiles completely off and put their phone on the desk in front of them and phone cannot be touched. Phones that ring I confiscate, and they get it back at the end of the week. Many lecturers are doing the same thing.

And we still have students who try to demand they should be allowed to join lectures conducted in English because they got A or B for grammar at high school but their conversation / comprehension skills are zero.

I add more to my post. I also lecture in Vietnam, classroom behaviors are pretty much the opposite. The students come on time, no silly excuses, they listen, they ask logical good questions, they have no hesitation to politely check their understanding, they engage in good classroom discussions, they want to learn. They do good assignments, and they are handed in on time. Mobile phones are automatically turned off before each lesson, lecturer doesn't have to tell them to turn off. I have never seen cheating in exams.

[graemeaylward]

For university in the relevant fields of course English is needed but its not equally needed everywhere. What I suggest is to teach it good to those who need it (concentrate the resources there). Don't teach it to those who don't want it and probably don't need it. Its real frustrating learning something you don't need.

The only time I ever failed a subject was because it had no relevance and I just could not bring myself to study the subject as it was bone dry and had no relevance to my future job. Motivation is quite important when studying.

Perhaps it would be better for those who make comments to be able to speak "the Queen's English" themselves.

This comment should read :- What I suggest is to teach it well ( not "good" ) to those............ It's really ( not "Its real" ) frustrating.........