Yes or no? Ireland decides whether to legalize gay marriage

[Lite Beer]

Yes or no? Ireland decides whether to legalize gay marriage
SHAWN POGATCHNIK, Associated Press

DUBLIN (AP) — Voters determined to have their voice heard on gay marriage turned out in strength Friday for Ireland's most hard-fought referendum in decades, a contest that pitted the liberal forces of social change against the nation's conservative Catholic foundation.

Polls closed at 10 p.m. after 15 hours of voting that featured long-distance trips by Irish citizens, including thousands of emigrants who returned by aircraft or ferry to take part in the world's first national vote on gay marriage.

Backers of gay marriage had hoped for high turnout, reflecting strong participation by young and first-time voters. Electoral officials said this appeared to have happened, particularly in Ireland's major urban centers of Dublin and Cork, where many arriving at polling stations declared it was their first time voting.

Polling station officials said Ireland could top 60 percent turnout nationally for the first time since the country narrowly voted to legalize divorce in 1995, but was unlikely to reach the 68 percent achieved when the Irish voted to ease access to foreign abortions in 1992. Results will be announced Saturday.

"This is really a turning point in our country, and I fully believe we're going to have a 'yes' vote," said Aodhan O Riordain, the government's equality minister, speaking after he cast his own ballot to amend the description of marriage in Ireland's 1937 constitution to a contract between "two persons without distinction as to their sex." O Riordain, 38, called it the most important vote of his generation.

Ireland has no system for mail-in voting, so Irish expatriates in London, New York, Bangkok and Nairobi planned weekend trips home. Many documented their journeys on Twitter, often under the hashtags #HomeToVote or, for some of those in neighboring Britain, #GetTheBoatToVote. One posted a picture on a London-to-Wales train with travelers decked out in rainbow colors and balloons of the gay rights movement.

Voters questioned by The Associated Press as they left several Dublin polling stations demonstrated a clear generational gap. Those under 40 were solidly "yes," with older voters much more likely to have voted "no."

"You can give the gays their rights without redefining the whole institution of marriage. What they're asking for is too much," said Bridget Ryan, 61, as she voted with her border collie in tow at a Catholic parish hall.

A second proposed amendment to lower the minimum age of presidential candidates from 35 to 21 was not expected to pass.

On the gay marriage question, leaders of the country's predominant faith, Roman Catholicism, have led the opposition, arguing that legalization would undermine marriage as a pillar of society and trigger unintended legal consequences in Irish courts, where adoption and surrogacy rights loom as legal battlegrounds.

Yet even within the church, a vocal grass-roots minority voted in favor, arguing that their bishops had no right to stop the state from managing civil wedding rules.

"A lot of practicing Catholics are voting yes, and it's no different in the clergy," said the Rev. Tim Hazelwood, a 56-year-old County Cork parish priest who told his flock from the pulpit at weekend Masses he was defying the bishops' line on the vote.

"We didn't get much leadership from our leaders. I was hearing cold and clinical arguments against gay marriage, and what they said didn't represent my view of Gospel values at all," said Hazelwood, a psychotherapist who counsels gay parishioners on how to cope in an often-unfriendly world.

Hazelwood said he knows of at least four fellow priests who also voted yes and estimates that one in 10 did nationwide. "They would share my view that Ireland and the church have caused gay people a lot of unnecessary hurt and pain, and it's time for that to stop," he said.

A "yes" result would provide fresh evidence of waning church influence in a country that handed control of key state services to the church upon independence from Britain in the 1920s. In the 1930s Ireland wrote its constitution in close consultation with Catholic leaders and in the 1980s voted forcefully in referendums to strengthen Ireland's abortion ban and to reject divorce.

The Catholic Church in Ireland has suffered declining Mass attendance since the early 1990s, when its moral authority started to be battered by two decades of scandals over sexual abuse and its systemic cover-up in parishes and church-run institutions for children.

Underscoring the changed national mood, Prime Minister Enda Kenny assailed the Vatican's role in the cover-ups after he took power in 2011 and closed Ireland's embassy to the Holy See.

By the shores of Dublin Bay, roadside campaigners from the Yes Equality lobbying group waved rainbow flags and held up placards urging commuters to "Vote for us." Cars honked back in approval.

The Students Union of Ireland, determined to spur students back to their often faraway home districts to vote, produced an app offering custom-tailored advice on the best transport links to take. Cab booking companies Hailo and Uber offered free lifts to polling stations. And one of Ireland's best known comedians, New York-raised Des Bishop, ran his own personalized taxi service for voters, taking free orders by tweet.

Bishop said his last free fare, Ashley Kehoe, was a first-time voter who told him she was voting for gay marriage "for the Ireland we want to live in for the future. Great to see people so engaged."

Gay couples who hope to marry were keeping their fingers crossed. Many also expressed a sense of dread that the amendment might be rejected.

Anne Marie Toole, 34, and Dil Wickremasinghe, 41, proposed to each other five years ago while strolling on a Dublin pier. But they agreed to wait until Ireland legalized gay marriage, rather than travel to a country where the practice is already legal.

"We had options to move elsewhere and we said no, based on our belief and our trust that marriage equality would come to Ireland," said Toole, who is from a small town outside Dublin and came out to her parents and four siblings when she was 29.

Only this week they had a baby boy, Phoenix, thanks to an IVF treatment at Dublin's first fertility clinic to serve lesbian couples.

As they took turns cradling the 5-day-old — Wikremasinghe is the biological mother, whereas Toole faces a potentially long wait to become the boy's legal guardian — they imagined what raising their boy in an accepting Ireland would be like.

"I would love for this referendum to pass," said Wikremasinghe, a Sri Lankan and Irish citizen. "Because then I I'd know that when Phoenix is old enough to go to school, or when Phoenix is playing in the park, and we are there to pick him up and to hold him ..."

She paused, overcome with emotion, wiped away tears and continued in a whisper: "I'd know then that he's not going to be viewed any differently than all the other kids."

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-05-23

[shirtless]

While they are distracting you on a non event , they are probably sliding in some tax increases and removing some other freedoms governments are dishonest and we need a fairer system.

[Maggusoil]

No interest here is there? Of course. Why are so many things illegal that do not harm other people?

To give lawyers jobs.

[Cats4ever]

While they are distracting you on a non event , they are probably sliding in some tax increases and removing some other freedoms governments are dishonest and we need a fairer system.

Good to see anarchy making a comeback.

[harryfrompattaya]

I heard Ireland shall pass a law that Gays can not divorced for 3 years once they get married.

[NoshowJones]

No interest here is there? Of course. Why are so many things illegal that do not harm other people?

To give lawyers jobs.

What exactly is illegal that does not harm other people?

[Nobb]

I am 100 percent Irish and i do not believe in gay marriages. I live in Thailand at the present time but all the true Irish Catholics should respond just like there ancestors would have. Ireland Forever!

[Nobb]

While they are distracting you on a non event , they are probably sliding in some tax increases and removing some other freedoms governments are dishonest and we need a fairer system.

Non events and against the Catholics religion is not at all acceptable at all in Ireland and gay marriages if the true God loving Irish people have a vote on it i promise you it will fail. Ireland Forever!

[Chicog]

Good old God loving Catholics, they've been turning a blind eye to their institutional child abuse for years but a couple of blokes or women want to get married and they're all up in arms about it.


Give me a break.

[MockingJay]

It's all about politics, isn't it? Since depopulation is on the worldwide agenda of those puppeteers behind the curtain, every gay or lesbian couple to them is a small success since those couple won't produce any children. Rest assured that if the human race were about to be exctinct, gay marriage would be handled like Ebola and demonized worldwide. In 2015 however, gay marriage is chique and hipp. In my opinion: Let people do whatever makes them happy as long as it won't harm anyone else.

Edited May 23, 2015 by MockingJay

[granuaile]

Non events and against the Catholics religion is not at all acceptable at all in Ireland and gay marriages if the true God loving Irish people have a vote on it i promise you it will fail. Ireland Forever!

Well, I have a lot of friends born and raised in Ireland who are voting in favor of same sex marriage, some returning there, some Catholic (including some priests), some Anglican... Times change... But it seems from your posts that you didn't return to vote so one "no" vote not cast.

[Seastallion]

No interest here is there? Of course. Why are so many things illegal that do not harm other people?

To give lawyers jobs.

What exactly is illegal that does not harm other people?

Currently, gay marriage is illegal, and the marriage of any two consenting adults does not harm anybody.

[Seastallion]

I am 100 percent Irish and i do not believe in gay marriages. I live in Thailand at the present time but all the true Irish Catholics should respond just like there ancestors would have. Ireland Forever!

Why should your beliefs affect what others do, if what they do does not affect you?

Gay marriage will not affect you or the church.

I don't believe in the god of the Catholic Church.....but I do not desire the church to be delegitamised....because your beliefs do not affect me (until, of course, people start trying to impose their beliefs on me!).

[samran]

While they are distracting you on a non event , they are probably sliding in some tax increases and removing some other freedoms governments are dishonest and we need a fairer system.

Non events and against the Catholics religion is not at all acceptable at all in Ireland and gay marriages if the true God loving Irish people have a vote on it i promise you it will fail. Ireland Forever!

j

Geez, I'm catholic and would vote yes if I could, but seriously your post sounds like it could be written by the ISIS PR department...

[thaibeachlovers]

No interest here is there? Of course. Why are so many things illegal that do not harm other people?

To give lawyers jobs.

What exactly is illegal that does not harm other people?

The Christian religion does not accept homosexuality and marriage is a religious institution ergo the Chuch can't accept homosexual marriage.

I am not against state approved non religious unions though.

It's ironic though. Heteros are realising that marriage is a con and abandoning it, while homosexuals are wanting to fall into the trap.

[MaeJoMTB]

Happy to support gay marriage,

But only on the condition one of the guys is nominated as 'wife', so the divorce judge knows who to give the house and kids to.

[khunken]

No interest here is there? Of course. Why are so many things illegal that do not harm other people?

To give lawyers jobs.

What exactly is illegal that does not harm other people?

The Christian religion does not accept homosexuality and marriage is a religious institution ergo the Chuch can't accept homosexual marriage.

I am not against state approved non religious unions though.

It's ironic though. Heteros are realising that marriage is a con and abandoning it, while homosexuals are wanting to fall into the trap.

Not correct. Not all Christian faiths reject gays and gay marriage. You are mistaking Christian for Roman Catholic.

Marriage has long since ceased to be a religious institution in most countries - it is a legal process that can either be carried out within or without a church.

I am an Irish atheist and my TV vote is a strong Yes. The Catholic church there has lost it's overbearing dominence of the Irish people I'm glad to say.

[Halion]

The way this world is going today the next referendum will be for the right of the sheep shaggers to get married. If it is acceptable to marry a member of the same sex then why not an animal. I know of many animals whose company I prefer to people.

[Scott]

Animals can't give consent. I knew a guy in the ME who wanted to marry a donkey, but the donkey said 'Nay'.

[Jingthing]

Game over folks.

Yes wins ... BIG.

Congratulations to the wonderful people of Ireland for doing the right thing.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Jingthing

[steven100]

Yes ......

[Jingthing]

It's great that this won by popular vote but such issues shouldn't need to be decided by popular votes.

Gay people are still a very unpopular minority in most of the world, indeed in many countries being murdered just for being gay people.

Equal civil rights for unpopular minorities should be a matter of constitutional structures, not popular votes.

It's great the people voted this way in Ireland, but still in most countries they wouldn't. Why should civil rights for unpopular minorities be dependent on popular votes?

[Chicog]

Animals can't give consent. I knew a guy in the ME who wanted to marry a donkey, but the donkey said 'Nay'.

http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/crime/driver-jailed-for-bestiality-1.302810

[Chicog]

It's great that this won by popular vote but such issues shouldn't need to be decided by popular votes.

Gay people are still a very unpopular minority in most of the world, indeed in many countries being murdered just for being gay people.

Equal civil rights for unpopular minorities should be a matter of constitutional structures, not popular votes.

It's great the people voted this way in Ireland, but still in most countries they wouldn't. Why should civil rights for unpopular minorities be dependent on popular votes?

Well they were voting to change the constitution.

[granuaile]

The Christian religion does not accept homosexuality and marriage is a religious institution ergo the Chuch can't accept homosexual marriage.

I am not against state approved non religious unions though.

It's ironic though. Heteros are realising that marriage is a con and abandoning it, while homosexuals are wanting to fall into the trap.

There is no single view in Christianity. My church, Episcopalian, does as do Presbyterians, United Church of Christ, and I think now Methodist...

[granuaile]

My Donegal cousin sent me a message while I was out on my walk that it appears to be going to be yes, and news reports right now are suggesting yes will win. Proud to be of Irish ancestry, Ireland rocks!

[Jingthing]

Already announced on BBC. Yes wins easily.

Next ...

[Scott]

Already announced on BBC. Yes wins easily.

Next ...

Next? Russia....well maybe not!

This is a nice victory and it is particularly sweet that it was by popular vote, although I agree with your previous assessment on structural protections for minority rights.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, I really only meant that the result is no longer in any doubt. Yes won.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Jingthing

[CWMcMurray]

I don't have any problem with any priest refusing to preform the ceremony if it is against their religion...

But as another poster mentioned, marriage is a secular institution with many secular benefits for those married.

Also it seems that the reasons against gay married are all routed in religious values

Given this, it seems that any country that purports to support religious freedom for all of its citizens should not have any real reason to ban gay marriage.