Is saying sorry

[Jingthing]

I have a related question I'm hoping someone can advise me about.

It relates to a baht bus paying situation in Pattaya.

The standard fare is 10 baht but it is 20 baht for "long" rides but what is long is not officially defined by anybody.

So I usually pay 10 baht unless the the ride is obviously very long where I pay 20, and also am prepared to pay the 20 if the driver demands it for rides that may or may not be defined as very long.

So the other day that happened, handed over 10, the driver said 20, I said OK and quickly found the 20 to pay him instead.

But he still seems to want to FIGHT me about it ... I mean he was on the edge of violence even though I had already payed him the 20 with no fight.

So what Thai phrase would you recommend, related to "Sorry" or not ... that would tend to calm down a hothead like that who has already got what he demanded but still isn't satisfied?

Edited May 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[JohnnyJazz]

I have a related question I'm hoping someone can advise me about.

It relates to a baht bus paying situation in Pattaya.

The standard fare is 10 baht but it is 20 baht for "long" rides but what is long is not officially defined by anybody.

So I usually pay 10 baht unless the the ride is obviously very long where I pay 20, and also am prepared to pay the 20 if the driver demands it for rides that may or may not be defined as very long.

So the other day that happened, handed over 10, the driver said 20, I said OK and quickly found the 20 to pay him instead.

But he still seems to want to FIGHT me about it ... I mean he was on the edge of violence even though I had already payed him the 20 with no fight.

So what Thai phrase would you recommend, related to "Sorry" or not ... that would tend to calm down a hothead like that who has already got what he demanded but still isn't satisfied?

Two option :

You want to be a TV hero. You punch him in the face. You will probably end up beaten up by the crowd, then in the police station, then in jail, then deported. Later you can write a thread about how you were so unfairly treated and be named poster of the year.

Or you can totally ignore him. Make it clear that you want no part in the argument and it's just your bad luck that you were singled out by this guy who is obviously "bababobo". The more he argues the more he's losing face. He will eventually walk away cursing you. Forget about it. Have a nice day.

Edited May 28, 2015 by JohnnyJazz

[malt25]

I'm sorry I started ring this post.

[lostoday]

I have a related question I'm hoping someone can advise me about.

It relates to a baht bus paying situation in Pattaya.

The standard fare is 10 baht but it is 20 baht for "long" rides but what is long is not officially defined by anybody.

So I usually pay 10 baht unless the the ride is obviously very long where I pay 20, and also am prepared to pay the 20 if the driver demands it for rides that may or may not be defined as very long.

So the other day that happened, handed over 10, the driver said 20, I said OK and quickly found the 20 to pay him instead.

But he still seems to want to FIGHT me about it ... I mean he was on the edge of violence even though I had already payed him the 20 with no fight.

So what Thai phrase would you recommend, related to "Sorry" or not ... that would tend to calm down a hothead like that who has already got what he demanded but still isn't satisfied?

Same thing happened to me. I gave the driver 10 baht and he asked for 20 instead. So I gave him a 20 baht note and he kept the 10 baht coin too. As he drove away with my 30 baht with a big smile saying ka tote, ka tote. Obviously asking for punishment....

[Berkshire]

If it'll make the OP feel any better....

[scoutman360]

My experience with the female Thai species is that if you are a stranger, they will say sorry rather quickly for a small infraction. But if you are their significant other, good luck. Sorry to them means they agree they did something wrong. Sorry is not given just because they did something and you got hurt. They could care less about you getting hurt.

[marko kok prong]

I think it is not really an asian concept,the same as strongly disagreeing is not,or shouting,or asserting yourself,that;s why they were colonised by a handfull of Europeans,except Thailand,as it provided a buffer between french indo china,and Britsh Malaya,and Burma,why because we were bigger stronger,and more advanced,in the case of Thailand,a british envoy was warned of lies within promises within deciect,with more lies,and to be honest Thailand has suffered as it would be a far better country today,if it had been a British colony,you only have to look at Singapore and Malaysia to see that.

[zeichen]

"This forum gets more ridiculous by the day. Now it's not a 'real' apology unless the person is groveling at your feet."

Thanks for misquoting me. because I didn't say real apology. I said highest form of apology. If you don't know about this, don't insult others for your own ignorance.

also it isn't groveling as that is a western thing. For a serious insult it is the highest level of apology. It is a very old tradition. I have only witnessed it first hand 2 times. Once when my friend accidentally stabbed me while we were cooking and once when at a funeral of a relative when the person that ran over his son showed up to ask for forgiveness. There is also a very famous clip back in the late 80's where two opposing politicians performed this type of apology in front of the King.

[zeichen]

"I think it is not really an asian concept,the same as strongly disagreeing is not,or shouting,or asserting yourself,that;s why they were colonised by a handfull of Europeans,except Thailand,as it provided a buffer between french indo china,and Britsh Malaya,and Burma,why because we were bigger stronger,and more advanced,in the case of Thailand,a british envoy was warned of lies within promises within deciect,with more lies,and to be honest Thailand has suffered as it would be a far better country today,if it had been a British colony,you only have to look at Singapore and Malaysia to see that."

I am not sure your logic and train of thought are that focused. You kind of go all over the place with this.

However, your last statement of Thailand being better off if it were colonized. Then giving Singapore and Malaysia as examples. Well what about the other 4 other countries in the area that are far worse off than Thailand that were colonized. Also name me one of the Asian countries that were colonized that didn't have a major civil war.

I think Thailand does just fine as is, but I still don't understand how this applies to apologizing.

[SoiBiker]

I like the idea of countries being colonised because they were just too polite to say anything about it.

[Suradit69]

Thais say sorry all the time. The word is "koh tod, krup/ka."

Yes, I hear it repeatedly for even the most trivial reasons. And the English word is one that many Thais even with limited English still seem to know ... although as Berkshire has said, there is a common Thai expression for it as well.

[Suradit69]

No, Thais don't actually apologize in the same respect that westerners do. Yes, there are the words but the meaning and intent are not the same.

Conflict resolution is quite difficult in most Asian countries, Thailand specifically. People in higher authority, class, age etc don't apologize and to do so would show that they are beneath the other person. There are subtleties that will arise that show regret, but not really the same as fully apologizing.

If the person was truly sorry, they would prostrate themselves on the ground and wai at one's feet. That is the most sincere form of apology and it just isn't done that often.

"If the person was truly sorry, they would prostrate themselves on the ground and wai at one's feet."

What utter nonsense. Obviously someone who did that would be abjectly sorry for some reason, but people can be genuinely sorry without making a public spectacle of themselves and the mode of expressing that one is sorry often depends on the relationship or status of the person making and receiving an apology.

Many people say "sorry" to someone for things that have nothing to do with anything the speaker has done. You can tell someone you're sorry if there has been a death in the family or to someone who lost all his money or who tripped over something & fell, even though you had nothing to do with what happened.

No, Thais don't actually apologize in the same respect that westerners do

Oh for heaven's sake. People in the west often say they're sorry even when they're anything but sorry. It's a social convenience most of the time or used in the hope of getting away with something. You really think westerners only speak sincerely and only apologize from their hearts.

I have received a heart felt apology from Thais for something that went wrong as well as a simple "sorry" for any number of inconsequential things ... just as would happen in the west.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Suradit69

[zeichen]

get out of the village and talk to other people besides your bar girl wife, Learn to speak Thai and actually learn about the culture, history and its people before spouting off garbage.

You also twisted everything I said and inferred totally incorrect. So perhaps go back to 6th grade and start again.

"You can tell someone you're sorry if there has been a death in the family or to someone who lost all his money or who tripped over something & fell, even though you had nothing to do with what happened."

sorry but Thais don't say Kor Toht at funerals or if someone fell down and got hurt. They say Mai Pen rai.

[lostoday]

get out of the village and talk to other people besides your bar girl wife, Learn to speak Thai and actually learn about the culture, history and its people before spouting off garbage.

You also twisted everything I said and inferred totally incorrect. So perhaps go back to 6th grade and start again.

"You can tell someone you're sorry if there has been a death in the family or to someone who lost all his money or who tripped over something & fell, even though you had nothing to do with what happened."

sorry but Thais don't say Kor Toht at funerals or if someone fell down and got hurt. They say Mai Pen rai.

Did you say,"if someone fell down and got hurt. They say Mai Pen rai." Of course they do. A trip to a busy grocery store or mall any day will confirm Thais saying ka tote or sorry hundreds of times a day. When some one bumps into me they say, "I'm sorry or ka tote." My wife who has never been a bar girl says ka tote when I trip over her feet all the time. (I'm old and don't walk to well)

[zeichen]

"When some one bumps into me they say, "I'm sorry or ka tote." My wife who has never been a bar girl says ka tote when I trip over her feet all the time. (I'm old and don't walk to well) "

please re-read his post. It didn't say bump or tripped over someone. He stated if someone fell down near them not caused by them.

You have heard Thai people say Im sorry to a stranger that fell down near them and they didn't cause it? Never in my life have I ever witnessed that.

The simple fact is that typically when two Thai friends have a falling out, disagreement, or a rift, they don't often apologize unless it is a major offense. They just either let it destroy their friendship or let time take time and eventually forget about it.

I have given many seminars in conflict resolution here and it is a universal truth that typically in most circumstances when something divides friends or colleagues, they don't apologize. They also don't shame each other like most westerners do either.

[lostoday]

"When some one bumps into me they say, "I'm sorry or ka tote." My wife who has never been a bar girl says ka tote when I trip over her feet all the time. (I'm old and don't walk to well) "

please re-read his post. It didn't say bump or tripped over someone. He stated if someone fell down near them not caused by them.

You have heard Thai people say Im sorry to a stranger that fell down near them and they didn't cause it? Never in my life have I ever witnessed that.

The simple fact is that typically when two Thai friends have a falling out, disagreement, or a rift, they don't often apologize unless it is a major offense. They just either let it destroy their friendship or let time take time and eventually forget about it.

I have given many seminars in conflict resolution here and it is a universal truth that typically in most circumstances when something divides friends or colleagues, they don't apologize. They also don't shame each other like most westerners do either.

Sorry. I completely missed what you were saying. I read, "sorry but Thais don't say Kor Toht at funerals or if someone fell down and got hurt." I think that means if someone falls down and does not specify why they fell down.

I have met many people all over the world who have started conflicts or lost friendships or created family vendettas over trivial things.

Much ado about nothing is not a Thai invention.

[marko kok prong]

The song does say it is the hardest word.

[buhi]

My point was I readily admit if I know I am in the wrong. Maybe a lot harder for me to back down when I am sure I am not at fault.

Ok a wifey thing, but I deflate obvious future conflicts by pointing out why I did whatever, which she might object to, but will never discuss.

"Too serious!"

End of discussion.

She will back down in her own way and I say face and it means losing a lot of face by humbling herself unecessarily.

I just buy her some flowers and say for you not Buddah, sorry.

https://youtu.be/nvlTJrNJ5lA

Edited May 29, 2015 by buhi

[buhi]

My point was I readily admit if I know I am in the wrong. Maybe a lot harder for me to back down when I am sure I am not at fault.

Ok a wifey thing, but I deflate obvious future conflicts by pointing out why I did whatever, which she might object to, but will never discuss.

"Too serious!"

End of discussion.

She will back down in her own way and I say face and it means losing a lot of face by humbling herself unecessarily.

I just buy her some flowers and say for you not Buddah, sorry.

https://youtu.be/nvlTJrNJ5lA

And I am not Thai bashing and love my wife of twenty years, but she is Thai and it is a Thai/ Asian thing.

Perhaps other observations are correct, that Westerners just blurt out sorry all the time, when no apology is required.

But I read the Thai press and watch the news here and from the West and denial is all too common!

[Stan42]

To sum it all up, it's just the hardest word...

[dirtycash]

8 years married to a thai she said sorry twice,,,only when [pushed or she wanted something, no, they do not say sorry , re phrase that, they do not mean "sorry

[Soutpeel]

Is saying sorry a Western concept? Thai speakers I would like your reply.

No its not a western concept in the least, I have Thai nationals saying sorry all the time even my Mrs

If your not getting the " sorrys" you are demanding its very obvious the persons concerned have absolutely no respect for you and believe your just another kee nok farang not worthy of their respect

[Soutpeel]

8 years married to a thai she said sorry twice,,,only when [pushed or she wanted something, no, they do not say sorry , re phrase that, they do not mean "sorry

Issan an rice farmers by any chance ? Certainly not my experience Edited May 30, 2015 by Soutpeel

[buhi]

Is saying sorry a Western concept? Thai speakers I would like your reply.

No its not a western concept in the least, I have Thai nationals saying sorry all the time even my Mrs

If your not getting the " sorrys" you are demanding its very obvious the persons concerned have absolutely no respect for you and believe your just another kee nok farang not worthy of their respect

I think you may be correct, that was in part why I was angry, but a domestic issue not for this forum.

And not "demanding", expecting maybe.

The kee nok has the money and is well respected elsewhere.Not kee nok too most I hope. Gere maybe!

Thanks for your replies.