No More 3mil Investment Visas In Thailand

[asiaworld]

Thanks for the info. Still, 10 mio is a drop in the ocean compared to, for instance, HK's USD 1 mio for a similar one. Not sure how other countries in the region compare.

I did forward details of the Philippines special visa that was mentioned on the other, big, thread to a mate who's married to a filipina but lives in HK. He chortled that it was a waste of money (USD 75k).

ARRRGHHHHHHHHHH !! But in HK what u getting IS : Permanent resident "Green card" with ALL the rights & privileges of any HK born resident !! Even Philippines gives our 'permanency'..

poor poor me got 3mln approved last month >> slightly less than 1 year ,, A LOT shorter, than any permanent rights ( and actually NOT better, than non-imm i've used so far)

Wrong. You have to keep your investment (and I apologise - it's not USD 1m, but only 850,000) for seven consecutive years to gain PR. What you gain during those seven years is normal residency, with the right to work, but without Right of Abode (ie they can kick you out at will if they want to).

Interestingly, you cannot do back-to-back tourist runs in HK either. I should know. They kicked me out back in '99 after two six-month stints. After 90 minutes in an interview room, I managed to persuade them to give me two months to pack up and ship out, which is what I did.

I've done two six year stints in HK separated by 9 months in the UK...sigh...still no PR for me then, but "them's the rules".

Huh.. well still NOT nearly as bad as here. i do keep lotsa assets here , cause IT IS nice place 2 invest & make money( if u've got asian mentality,even thou i'm white, bt lived most of my life in asia) Almost did same thingy with Macau PR > only 125,000 USD investment in property , Very straightforward & u are only required 2 visit every 3 years to keep your status !! so what u r saying abt. HK IS a bit strange , i go there 10-30 times a year & THE MORE I VISIT, THE MORE WELCOME I GET ! Now it takes me LesS time 2 clear immi in HK, than in BKK (where i reside! )

[Francis Maube]

Guys,

Just went to Penang to get my 1 year multiple entry non-O visa (90 days stay). Had all the paper work, marriage certificate (17 years by now) original and copies. I was asked to produce my wife ID card !!! Luckily she was with me, otherwise I wonder was sort of red tape the clerk would have come up with.

I think the message is pretty clear, welcome packaged tourist for 2 weeks and please stay in big hotels. Not welcome are all of you guys trying to live in thailand and bringing in foreign currencies on a regular basis.

[bander]

You can gain Thai nationality, regardless of race, creed or existing nationality.

In theory maybe (could you point me a government site so I can see the requirements?).

In practice, no.

I have never heard of a forigner gaining this status, and don't know anyone that has.

Maybe if he is a politcal figures younger brother or something but for us mere mortals??

I think not.

One I can think of offhand is American Hotelier and Pizza Company owner Bill Heinecke, who I believe is now rated among the top 50 richest "Thais".

It is not uncommon for someone to obtain instant Thai citizenship with or without the Royal Decree if these individual are doing and or bring somethings (money and other personal wealths) to enhance Thai economy and to help enrich Thai culture. Tiger Woods has dual citizenship and was granted honorary bachelor degree from a Thai university. Does he very care about Thai citizenship and the Thai honorary degree? (Bangkok post forum Sep 05, 2006)

It's all about $$$. Correct me if I'm wrong!

[jrincon17]

I dont see why you guys dont go to the philippines , cops dont extort money from you , its cheaper and its so much easier to stay . wait what am i saying , stay away , the philippines is a horrible place

[cutter007]

Yes, Tesco and the other big box retailers are in trouble. I guess that's why Walmart never came here

You actually think the category that makes up long term foreigners staying in Thailand makes a sizable contribution to the bottom line for retailers like Tesco.

My company sells products to Thailand, and I can tell you, you aren't even a second thought to them.

You people need to wake up, upper class Thai's (the ones that set the policies of this country) don't care if every single farang staying in Thailand were to leave tomorrow.

You are small money to them, and you are only an annoyance, one that they are now tired of.

The foreigners they care about are two categories, short term tourists (because they contribute significantly to the economy), and business leaders and engineers (because they do jobs that Thais can't do)

The rest of you that think your 50,000 baht a month in spending, or you being forced to sell your 4 million baht condo, is going to crash the Thai economy, remove the glue bottle from your nose, and wake up.

[dog412]

Yes, Tesco and the other big box retailers are in trouble. I guess that's why Walmart never came here

You actually think the category that makes up long term foreigners staying in Thailand makes a sizable contribution to the bottom line for retailers like Tesco.

My company sells products to Thailand, and I can tell you, you aren't even a second thought to them.

You people need to wake up, upper class Thai's (the ones that set the policies of this country) don't care if every single farang staying in Thailand were to leave tomorrow.

You are small money to them, and you are only an annoyance, one that they are now tired of.

The foreigners they care about are two categories, short term tourists (because they contribute significantly to the economy), and business leaders and engineers (because they do jobs that Thais can't do)

The rest of you that think your 50,000 baht a month in spending, or you being forced to sell your 4 million baht condo, is going to crash the Thai economy, remove the glue bottle from your nose, and wake up.

upper class thais don't give a shat about anyone, except themselves. and if i am small money to them, then just think how they feel and treat even "smaller" thais. that is what is unfortunately happening to this country. and if you think the "upper class thai's " give a shat what happens to this country, then just find out where THEIR big money is invested. they educate their children where?

[Maestro]

Just went to Penang to get my 1 year multiple entry non-O visa (90 days stay). Had all the paper work, marriage certificate (17 years by now) original and copies. I was asked to produce my wife ID card !!!

Francis, did you have to show a Thai savings account book with a certain minimum balance in it?

I am asking because another poster applying for a multiple-entry non-O visa for visiting family was asked in Penang to show a balance of 400K. Others reading this will be interested to know.

Another question: was this your first application for a non-O visa? (There have been reports that Penang gives only a single-entry visa on the first application, multiple-entry on subsequent applications)

---------------

Maestro

[simon43]

Now I understand why all these new rules are being imposed..

It's the only way to boost sales of the Thai Elite card!!!

Simon

[cutter007]

t

You can gain Thai nationality, regardless of race, creed or existing nationality.

In theory maybe (could you point me a government site so I can see the requirements?).

In practice, no.

I have never heard of a forigner gaining this status, and don't know anyone that has.

Maybe if he is a politcal figures younger brother or something but for us mere mortals??

I think not.

One of my good friends has gotten Thai citizenship, and he is not married to a Thai.

It took him 1 day to get it and all he had to do was take a simple test, asking him some basic questions about Thailand. He can't even read or write in Thai.

He did pay some agency 50,000 baht to make sure everything ran smoothly, but that was the total cost he paid.

The only requirement I am aware of that you need to do to apply for citizenship is that you need to extend the same visa for a duration of 3 years or more, no gaps.

I also heard a rumor that they only nationalize 100 people from each home country per year, so the waiting list for some nationalities, chinese for example, is quite long.

Contributing something to notable to Thai society or the economy would help with your treatment in this process, but you don't have to have to be anyone special to be nationalized.

[pschef]

Guys,

Just went to Penang to get my 1 year multiple entry non-O visa (90 days stay). Had all the paper work, marriage certificate (17 years by now) original and copies. I was asked to produce my wife ID card !!! Luckily she was with me, otherwise I wonder was sort of red tape the clerk would have come up with.

I think the message is pretty clear, welcome packaged tourist for 2 weeks and please stay in big hotels. Not welcome are all of you guys trying to live in thailand and bringing in foreign currencies on a regular basis.

I for one am surpised u got that visa, but ID card has always been a requirement. Sorry a copy is enough, u dnt need to take ur wife. Nice to hear they still issue that one. Cheers

Seems funny they still issue that, thinking about all the previous stuff???

Edited September 12, 2006 by pschef

[thaigene2]

t

You can gain Thai nationality, regardless of race, creed or existing nationality.

In theory maybe (could you point me a government site so I can see the requirements?).

In practice, no.

I have never heard of a forigner gaining this status, and don't know anyone that has.

Maybe if he is a politcal figures younger brother or something but for us mere mortals??

I think not.

One of my good friends has gotten Thai citizenship, and he is not married to a Thai.

It took him 1 day to get it and all he had to do was take a simple test, asking him some basic questions about Thailand. He can't even read or write in Thai.

He did pay some agency 50,000 baht to make sure everything ran smoothly, but that was the total cost he paid.

The only requirement I am aware of that you need to do to apply for citizenship is that you need to extend the same visa for a duration of 3 years or more, no gaps.

I also heard a rumor that they only nationalize 100 people from each home country per year, so the waiting list for some nationalities, chinese for example, is quite long.

Contributing something to notable to Thai society or the economy would help with your treatment in this process, but you don't have to have to be anyone special to be nationalized.

This sounds suspect Cutter007. You sure your friend didn't get "Permanent Residency"? I recall hearing the Permanent Residency" status was only granted to around 100 people per year. And it was a tough thing to get. Now for 50,000 Baht to the right people it may be possible..but citizenship?? I doubt it...even PR requires near fluency in the language (or so I've heard - 3rd hand I admit).

[Maestro]

This sounds suspect Cutter007. You sure your friend didn't get "Permanent Residency"?

...but citizenship?? I doubt it...even PR requires near fluency in the language (or so I've heard - 3rd hand I admit).

I was wondering the same, Cutter. These second-hand reports are often suspect.

Regarding “Permanent Residency”, anybody interested in the subject can read a detailed first-hand report here.

---------------

Maestro

[ChiangMaiThai]

There is a reason for this.Thai people are about a million times more likely to overstay.

And what do you think this whole issue of banning border runs is about, then?

Jesus Christ man, wake up! The two countries are so vastly different that your comparisons are moronic. If a Thai dissapears into a country like NZ, he will be a burden on the system and he will "take" employment opportunities from locals. If a farang stays long term in Thailand, what burden is he on the Thai government? What benefits are given to him? What work does he steal from the Thais? All he does is bring money in and spend it and this is something that the Thais should be encouraging.

[Couthy]

Having had a look at this debate and the potential changes in Immigration Law.

My lot had a talk about this today: (Being Thai as they are).

If a law is actually changed it must be by due process of Government.

A ‘committee’ cannot alter or rescind a law.

An existing law that has been in force but unused for a period of 10 years can be argued as being unconstutional.

There is no allowance in Thai law for a law to be applied retrospectively. That applies in the same way as in Europe, Oz, Nz, USA, Canada, Et al.

Therefore whilst the existing law regarding ‘back to back voa’s’ has been on the book for years and years – those on the investment visa, have no worries.

There were and are specific terms for those conditions and cannot be arbitrarily changed without the due process of Government.

As Thai law stipulates – a new law cannot be applied in retrospect.

(Personally – my lot think it is a scare tactic, but somewhat more evil, as they know what is liable to happen in the upcoming political/ electoral bun fight and there will be a lot of property then to be bought up cheap – the foreigners having legged it or lost out).

The advice is: All you guys or gals out there who are married to a Thai, live with a Thai, have invested in Thailand and feel aggrieved with these rulings is this:

Get your Thai wife, friend, friends, and get them to write to their M.P.

Moan like bloody buggery.

My lot from have already done it to (K Montri) – these new regulations affect me not one jot, it is irrelevant what country I am in as long as I am helping to generate income for our company here.

It is a Democracy, there is a parliament, and complaining to a Thai Embassy or Consulate will achieve the square root of SFA.

Get your politicans involved- talk to them and politely explain just how it will affect the immediate income levels in the area in which you stay and the likely long term effects on world opinion about Thailand no longer being the Land of Smiles.

If enough of you do it – hey, policy change maybe?. After all there is a Democracy Monument in Bangkok……..I remember when they were shooting people there…..

Get your pens out folks.

Cheers,

Couthy.

[cutter007]

This sounds suspect Cutter007. You sure your friend didn't get "Permanent Residency"?

...but citizenship?? I doubt it...even PR requires near fluency in the language (or so I've heard - 3rd hand I admit).

I was wondering the same, Cutter. These second-hand reports are often suspect.

Regarding “Permanent Residency”, anybody interested in the subject can read a detailed first-hand report here.

---------------

Maestro

THis is not second hand information, I have copies of his Thai passport, and his Thai ID card.

He owns lots of land here, and he told me who he voted for in the last election.

I said before that the waiting list of 100 people was only a rumor I heard, and so I can't confirm this.

Edited September 12, 2006 by cutter007

[snakestick]

With reference to the various comparisons with other countries:

If a Thai successfully becomes a citizen of the UK, say through marriage, they are entitled to live and work anywhere in the EU and they are entitled to all the welfare benefits - this is not remotely similar to Thailand, which is presumably why it's harder to get in.

I have no problem with rule changes, but in the UK they are not made retrospectively effective. What am I supposed to do with an unsaleable condo purchased with my life savings in a country that I now cannot live in? I obeyed all the rules as laid down and am now effectively being told that I failed to obey rules that didn't exist when I bought my condo 3 years ago.

These aren't just minor bureaucratic changes - these are people's lives being wrecked.

How long before someone kills themselves in despair. I know I feel like the bottom has just dropped out of my world and I don't know what I'm going to do.

Don't do anything drastic there Maestro, eye no how u feel

[snakestick]

Wow - bet a few bottles are being popped now ! ! !

Very glad for all in this situation.

Thanks, Sunbelt, for these updates.

No one who would have switched to this type of visa due to the visa fiasco is popping any bubbly. very small consolation

[thohts]

This is getting crazier by the minute, isn't it? I think my priority now is to sell up everything and go to Malaysia or so.

I'm with you on that one!

I don't really like Malaysia that much, but the immigration environment seems to be getting unstable these days.

I was actually considering the investment visa.. I'm sure glad I didn't go with it. It would have been both a waste of time AND money.

Wonder what's next?

[Nam Kao]

>>>I dont see why you guys dont go to the philippines

Too dangerous, and the birds well..........

[pap]

I just did a business visa that I can now use as toilet paper. I am glad I only dropped 4 mil baht on a condo to test out doing business in Thailand. I would have been happier if it was 0 baht now. Now that the condo will be devalued I can safely say I will take my investment money elsewhere. There are to many places in the world that want your money to do business. Places that suddenly decide to change the rules on you have scared away serious investment, other than the hotel industry, accross the board. I guess the Thais don't get that. They will lose lots of investment money for sure now. A lot of that money was already looking at India and Vietnam due to the recent liberalization of their laws and the return on investment.

Talk about killing the golden goose. I could understand grandfathering in laws but the way they are doing these things screams go away. Every country that has done this has pushed themselves back into the stone age and then been pissed at the rest of the world because that happened to them.

Not to bright. When dollars start flowing to Malaysia instead of Thailand it will become a better place. That will take a couple of years but it will happen. Good luck on the sale. It won't be easy now but I guess it beats having the Thai government decide you can't own property in Thailand as a foreigner and taking it from you.

This is getting crazier by the minute, isn't it? I think my priority now is to sell up everything and go to Malaysia or so.

I'm with you on that one!

I don't really like Malaysia that much, but the immigration environment seems to be getting unstable these days.

I was actually considering the investment visa.. I'm sure glad I didn't go with it. It would have been both a waste of time AND money.

Wonder what's next?

[capt_canada42]

This only means 1 thing for us foreigner......... SCRAMMMMM!!!

Bye have a nice trip its was nice knowing you !

[Big Dogster]

This sounds suspect Cutter007. You sure your friend didn't get "Permanent Residency"?

...but citizenship?? I doubt it...even PR requires near fluency in the language (or so I've heard - 3rd hand I admit).

I was wondering the same, Cutter. These second-hand reports are often suspect.

Regarding “Permanent Residency”, anybody interested in the subject can read a detailed first-hand report here.

---------------

Maestro

THis is not second hand information, I have copies of his Thai passport, and his Thai ID card.

He owns lots of land here, and he told me who he voted for in the last election.

I said before that the waiting list of 100 people was only a rumor I heard, and so I can't confirm this.

So what? the guy is a needle in a haystack. if it were so easy we'd all have the same thing. aint worth discussion. off topic

[Couthy]

Look,

Everbody is losing the plot on this discussion.

Every Thai citizen has a member of parliament.

Get your mates to start lobbying.

After all, if up country farmers can get things done by camping out in front of Government House then think what a few hundred thousand letters from Thais to their M.P's might achieve?.

Letters that explain money coming in their prefectures....

Why is everybody thinking about running?.

No ask, no get.

Democracy is earned and rights are earned.

Would it be cynical to suggest that certain Thai law firms may like to maximise this story?.

Nothing to do with potential future profit at all.

Ever met a lawyer without a dollar in the eye?.

The two oldest professions in the Biblical sense - whores and lawyers. Do you trust whores?.

Then why the other?. Heh-Heh-no offence to lawyers; everbody has to earn a living.

Cheers,

Couthy.

This sounds suspect Cutter007. You sure your friend didn't get "Permanent Residency"?

...but citizenship?? I doubt it...even PR requires near fluency in the language (or so I've heard - 3rd hand I admit).

I was wondering the same, Cutter. These second-hand reports are often suspect.

Regarding “Permanent Residency”, anybody interested in the subject can read a detailed first-hand report here.

---------------

Maestro

THis is not second hand information, I have copies of his Thai passport, and his Thai ID card.

He owns lots of land here, and he told me who he voted for in the last election.

I said before that the waiting list of 100 people was only a rumor I heard, and so I can't confirm this.

So what? the guy is a needle in a haystack. if it were so easy we'd all have the same thing. aint worth discussion. off topic

[CTM]

My question would be ,what is the amount you have to invest now?

3m baht is about the price of a car in the UK where most "investors"seem to come from.

Try and get into other developed countries with such limited funds?

Is there a real plan to raise the stakes?or is it just another crackdown for the sake of a crackdown?

W

I suspect that the marriage visa financial requirement will be doubled shortly as it is very low

"very low" how much is it exactly ??

Not true. Marry an American and you only have to show an income or cash of about $12000 a year or about B444000. And it can be either spouses income. That is barely more than Thailand expects and last time I checked America was far more expensive place to live. And that visa is for 10 years with work permit for any job or 12 jobs in different locations plus full land, business, and investment rights. Also includes the right to enter and leave the country at will for free. And a clear path to citizenship if desired.

I'm sure the numbers are slightly higher now. Those are from when I did it a few years ago. My point is that it is absolute crap that people with even minimum qualifications and money can't get into Western countries. Western countries are flooded with immigrants.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the people who think only independently wealth (by Western standards) farangs should be allowed to stay longterm in Thailand seem to be the same people who complain how unfair it is their 4th grade educated, ex-hooker, yaabaa addicted, B100 in the bank, no job, no job skill having "tii rak" should be given instant citizenship to their country of origin based on marriage?

As for the investment visa, I thought it always was like B10 million but lowered on a temporary basis when the economy tanked.

[zeusbheld]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the people who think only independently wealth (by Western standards) farangs should be allowed to stay longterm in Thailand seem to be the same people who complain how unfair it is their 4th grade educated, ex-hooker, yaabaa addicted, B100 in the bank, no job, no job skill having "tii rak" should be given instant citizenship to their country of origin based on marriage?

in a word, no.

[sfokevin]

I can find no information or confirmation that this is the new policy? Nothing in the Bangkok Post or other papers... Has anyone seen anything in other venues?

Edited September 12, 2006 by sfokevin

[MyFriend You]

As this is not the case in Thailand, (it seems you can never be a Thai citizen, own your own property, vote and have any rights that a Thai citizen has) and they are now targeting only foriegners (and, in a very short timescale). Perhaps a better word would be ethnocentrism but certainly in my country if it was happening to a racial minority (which I certinly am here) it would be called political racialism, prejudiced policies or social discrimination.

You can gain Thai nationality, regardless of race, creed or existing nationality.

Tell that to Tiger Woods, his mother was a Thai and they refused him citizenship, I am sure he has the $$$ to buy one as well, but shouldn't he be afforded citizenship since his mother was Thai (Oh I forgot, she was Issaan, not a 'Bangkok Thai')

[Sulaphat]

As this is not the case in Thailand, (it seems you can never be a Thai citizen, own your own property, vote and have any rights that a Thai citizen has) and they are now targeting only foriegners (and, in a very short timescale). Perhaps a better word would be ethnocentrism but certainly in my country if it was happening to a racial minority (which I certinly am here) it would be called political racialism, prejudiced policies or social discrimination.

You can gain Thai nationality, regardless of race, creed or existing nationality.

Tell that to Tiger Woods, his mother was a Thai and they refused him citizenship, I am sure he has the $$$ to buy one as well, but shouldn't he be afforded citizenship since his mother was Thai (Oh I forgot, she was Issaan, not a 'Bangkok Thai')

I think Tiger let it be known that he wasn't interested in Thai citizenship and all the talk and speculation about offering it to him went away.

[kiakaha]

all the farang have gone ? what a load of ass. what about all the foriegn workers on non b visas with work permits , non o holders, various other non imm categories etc...etc.... the lack of demand will be like xmas for these expats (low rents, cheap sale prices)

They are next.

Watch and learn my dear Padawan )

There is a bit of difference between multinational expats working legally on Sathorn for Fortune 1000 companies/and other professionals in Thailand vs the visa runner gang.

Not all foreigners hold the same status/respect in Thailand, the thai government realise this and, in terms of long stay immigration, are simply trying to get rid of the effluent and keep the cream and establish more thorough checks and balances.

[Acharn]

I predict a huge increase in WP's. Can a person get a WP.....say to teach.....but then not really pursue work; just use it as a way to stay in country legally?

The short answer is, "No". A work permit is issued to do specific work for a specific company/school at a specific location. In general, they check up by checking to see if payroll taxes are paid. I doubt that any school will go to the effort of getting work for somebody who doesn't then do real work for them -- even if they don't pay that person and so don't pay payroll taxes on him/her. Actually, I've heard of people who got a work permit at one place and then used it to work at another place, but the company that originally got the work permit is subject to a large fine if they fail to notify the Labor Department when the person leaves their employ, so they're not going to do it willingly. That can even be a form of slavery, because if you leave one company you aren't supposed to work until the work permit is issued for the new company, and the old company can report you to Immigration if you do start working before then. There's also a teaching license involved, which has even more complications that I'm not clear on.