Thailand Brit murder suspects 'still waiting' on evidence review

[JLCrab]

No, but it takes a lot of money to buy off those who might have proof that he was there.

And you have exactly zero proof that anyone was bought off either as alibi providers, or escape accomplices, or eyewitnesses, or anybody else.

.. except to maybe say we all know how corrupt Thailand is and that it has happened before, etc. etc.

I am not convinced, based on anything made public to date, that the 2 Burmese accused are responsible for these crimes. I just don't see that, if the 2 are not responsible, that it's the slam dunk that everybody seems think it is who is/are in fact responsible.

Edited June 16, 2015 by JLCrab

[AleG]

So, the B2/ were cleared before they weren't

It appears that way. Though, with reams of other info which may be pertinent to this case, RTP are very picky about what they reveal and what they must hide. At least two dragnets at KT, days after the crime, forced many migrants to be DNA tested. Surely, the 2 scapegoats were among those tranches. All were officially announced to be clear - no matches. Then it was back to looking at the suspects which most of the evidence (running man video, etc) pointed to. Oh, but wait. By that time, the Headman, Mon, and Mon's police friends, top brass in Bangkok switched in to emergency mode, and convinced the RTP that looking closely at Thais and/or anyone connected to influential people - was out of bounds. So, the police quickly shifted to looking again only at impoverished Burmese migrants. And that's a major reason why the whole smelly case 'is in a hole where the sun don't shine.'

Thai officials are digging themselves in deeper, week by week. There is a way toward truth and justice, but Thai officialdom doesn't even want to know about that route.

" Surely, the 2 scapegoats were among those tranches."

Certainly you are making unwarranted assumptions.

"By that time, the Headman, Mon, and Mon's police friends, top brass in Bangkok switched in to emergency mode, and convinced the RTP that looking closely at Thais and/or anyone connected to influential people - was out of bounds."

And this is true because you say so, no evidence needed.

Now what did the real world look like back then:

"Police are confident that they will be able to issue warrant for the arrest of or arrest the suspects in the September 15 murder of two British bakcpackers on Koh Tao in a few days, said Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen, acting assistant national police chief, said today.

He disclosed that police had narrowed down the number of suspects to about ten who are to be requestioned. These ten suspects who include Thais, foreigners and Myanmar migrant workers were at the AC Bar on Koh Tao on the night of September 15 between midnight to 4.40 am of the following day."

That statement made by the man you say had already been kicked out of the investigation the day before the two Burmese suspects were arrested.

As Philip K. Dick said: 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.'

[thailandchilli]

Does anyone recall that police put bloody clothes in davids travel mates luggage?

Nope.

Didn't happen

This is where you always let yourself down.

Of course you are right it didn't happen. The police put muddy trousers/shorts in Davids travel mates luggage. They thought the mud was blood.

Is that clearer now ?

Actually the trousers were put in the luggage of David:

"Police sources said Mr Ware, 25, was stopped as he was about to leave Suvarnabhumi airport on Tuesday and placed under police questioning after police found what they thought was a pair of his bloodstained trousers in the luggage of the male victim David William Miller, 24"

But yes the police admitted putting what they thought were bloody trousers into Davids luggage and then arrested Ware in Bangkok citing those trousers as evidence.

All very fishy

[AleG]

No, but it takes a lot of money to buy off those who might have proof that he was there.

And you have exactly zero proof that anyone was bought off either as alibi providers, or escape accomplishes, or eyewitnesses, or anybody else.

.. except to maybe say we all know how corrupt Thailand is and that it has happened before, etc. etc.

Something that shouldn't be forgotten is that the reason the man some are so obsessed about become a suspect in the first place was because of tip-offs from social media.

As far as I've been able to piece together the order of events, it went like this...

Some days before the murders Sean McAnna had a motorcycle accident resulting in several cuts, someone at the bar he worked at helped him clean the blood, after the murders someone told Mon about that and either he assumed it must have happened after the murders or the source got the date wrong, in any case he jumped to the conclusion that McAnna had cuts and blood on him the day of the murders therefore he must had been be involved. Then he and a friend harassed McAnna at a 7-11, he made some posts on social media and then the feeding frenzy began.

Of course the conspiracy minded people at CSILA assumed that the men chasing McAnna were actually connected with the murder (and not just, as they were doing themselves, jumping to conclusions), at some point Nomsod pitched in in the discussions and someone decided that his defense(1) of his uncle meant that he must be connected to the murders too.

Any similarity between that and the persons here that see you, me, Jdinasia or anyone else being accused of being connected with the murders for not jumping in on their bandwagon is no mere coincidence; it's the same mindset: "why do they say something I disagree with? They must be in it!"

So the armchair detectives focused on Nomsod, decided he looked like the man on the CCTV footage and next thing you know the police announce they have identified the suspect; after the dust settled the police blamed incorrect information coming from Social Media for the whole thing (2). Of course that didn't felt right with the armchair detectives that were pumped up in the feeling they got the "real" murderer,

Now, in a perfect example of a (very) vicious circle the Social Media detectives point at the police announcement that Nomsod was a suspect to support their theories that he was involved in the murders, even though he became a suspect due to claims made in Social Media.

There's a name for that, Circular Reporting.

(1) Quote from the CSI-LA page "Well, the reason is because "Nom Sod" and his friends had posted comments on CSI during the time that Sean leaked out a statement that he was being threatened and bullied by the mafia. In many ways, this allowed Admin and people on CSI LA page to see the suspicious behavior and we were able to recognize the close similarity in the physical features of the suspect betweem the CCTV video and "Nom Sod"."

(2) On the day Nomsod was cleared: "Pol Gen Somyot pointed to groundless reports posted on social media that obstructed the investigation and confused the investigators."

[ScarpoFongness4U]

My memory is good.

I recall they planted bloody trousers

I recall they had the headmans family

I recall they announced it was the headmans family

I recall. They suddenly got promotions and transfers off the island when they realized they may have made a mistake w uncle sutheps family

Gee whiz, even they thought the coup meant something

I recall their faces when they announced it was the headmans family

I recall their faces when they said it wasn't

I recall they beat a taxi driver

[mcm991]

My memory is good.

I recall they planted bloody trousers

I recall they had the headmans family

I recall they announced it was the headmans family

I recall. They suddenly got promotions and transfers off the island when they realized they may have made a mistake w uncle sutheps family

Gee whiz, even they thought the coup meant something

I recall their faces when they announced it was the headmans family

I recall their faces when they said it wasn't

I recall they beat a taxi driver

You can recall whatever you like .... just don't point any fingers at people of influence on the island.

JD and AleG really don't like that.

[thailandchilli]

From the same quote that AleG made above taken from CSILA but was extremely selective in his editing of its length:

Well,. the reason is because "Nom Sod" and his friends had posted comments on CSI during the time that Sean leaked out a statement that he was being threatened and bullied by the mafia. In many ways, this allowed Admin and people on CSI LA page to. see the suspicious behavior and we were able to recognize the close similarity in the physical features of the suspect betweem the CCTV video and "Nom Sod". Not long after that, a local area witness said they saw "Nom Sod" on the night of. the incident. Many have sent messages reporting that some people have told them about powerful figures and experiences of rape incidents taking place on Koh Tao.

The reason I point this out is that if people are now going to start quoting all the time from CSILA then do so in a balanced fashion and not with their own prejudice

[masquerade]

This is a most disturbing turn of events. Someone, somewhere high up in the Thai food chain is telling the judge what to do.

This appears to have little or nothing to do with conducting a fair trial, or allowing a proper defence for these innocent boys - and yes they are innocent until proved guilty, even in Thailand, but with no proper chance to re-examine the evidence, particularly the DNA evidence, prior to the trial's start, what chance have the defence of properly defending them?

Let me hazard a guess, RTP are directly under the Office of the Prime Minister and the most senior police officer has been personally involved in the case.

[AleG]

From the same quote that AleG made above taken from CSILA but was extremely selective in his editing of its length:

Well,. the reason is because "Nom Sod" and his friends had posted comments on CSI during the time that Sean leaked out a statement that he was being threatened and bullied by the mafia. In many ways, this allowed Admin and people on CSI LA page to. see the suspicious behavior and we were able to recognize the close similarity in the physical features of the suspect betweem the CCTV video and "Nom Sod". Not long after that, a local area witness said they saw "Nom Sod" on the night of. the incident. Many have sent messages reporting that some people have told them about powerful figures and experiences of rape incidents taking place on Koh Tao.

The reason I point this out is that if people are now going to start quoting all the time from CSILA then do so in a balanced fashion and not with their own prejudice

Are you equating hearsay with first hand accounts?

The part you put in bold is hearsay, the part were the administration of the page directly takes ownership of some claims is not.

[AleG]

You can recall whatever you like .... just don't point any fingers at people of influence on the island.

JD and AleG really don't like that.

Yes, fancy that. Some people take umbrage regarding witch hunts, how awful.

[thailandchilli]

From the same quote that AleG made above taken from CSILA but was extremely selective in his editing of its length:

Well,. the reason is because "Nom Sod" and his friends had posted comments on CSI during the time that Sean leaked out a statement that he was being threatened and bullied by the mafia. In many ways, this allowed Admin and people on CSI LA page to. see the suspicious behavior and we were able to recognize the close similarity in the physical features of the suspect betweem the CCTV video and "Nom Sod". Not long after that, a local area witness said they saw "Nom Sod" on the night of. the incident. Many have sent messages reporting that some people have told them about powerful figures and experiences of rape incidents taking place on Koh Tao.

The reason I point this out is that if people are now going to start quoting all the time from CSILA then do so in a balanced fashion and not with their own prejudice

Are you equating hearsay with first hand accounts?

The part you put in bold is hearsay, the part were the administration of the page directly takes ownership of some claims is not.

Its as much hearsay as any part of the statement, unless you are now claiming CSILA as a credible source of reports.

I find it strange that the very person who denounced CSILA in so many previous posts is now attempting to use it to add credibility to his statements, cant have it both ways

[ScarpoFongness4U]

how about the B2 themselves?

DECEMBER 2014
To: Daw Aung San Suu Kyi,

We pay obedience to the Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, our parents and our teachers.

The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already. We think it is injustice that we are in the jail. We want justice and equality.

When you are reading this letter, we do not know really how you will think about us, but if possible we want you to help us, and we are also asking the help from you.

We are poor, so we came to Thailand to work and save money. My friend, Zaw Lin, he does not have father, he has to support his widow mother. I (Wai Phyo) also have to support my grandmother and parents. In the beginning when we arrived in Thailand we suffered many difficulties, we do not want to be suffering like poor people and we tried to work hard and sent money back to our parents regularly, we were happy so much for that.

But now our hopes are broken. We are worried about our parents, who will support them, and we miss our parents every day, when we miss them we are crying. When we go to bed we pray for all people and creatures in the world to have safety, peace, good health and happiness. Please also pray for us to be released from this case.

A May Suu, please have pity on us.

Wai Phyo and Zaw Lin

Wai Phyo and Zaw Lin

--------

เรียน ท่าน (ด่อ) อองซานซุจี

กราบนมัสการพระรัตนตรัย พ่อแม่และครูบาอาจารย์ พวกผมทั้งสองไม่เกี่ยวข้องกับ กรณีดังกล่าวนี้เลย ดังนั้นพวกผมเขียนจดหมาย เพื่ออยากขอความช่วยเหลือเกี่ยวกับเรื่องที่พวกผมประสบอยู่ การก่อเรื่องนี้ไม่ใช่พวกผมก็เลยไม่อยากอยู่ในคุก ในขณะนี้ฆาตกรรมตัวจริงอาจจะทำมาหากินที่ประเทศอื่นแล้วก็ได้ พวกผมถูกจับแล้วถูกคุมขังอยู่ในคุกโดยไม่ได้กระทำนั้นคิดว่าไม่ยุติธรรมเลย พวกผมต้องการความยุติธรรมและเสมอภาพ

ตอนที่ท่านอ่านจดหมายของพวกผมนั้นท่านจะคิดอะไรอยู่พวกผมไม่ทราบเลย ถ้าเป็นไปได้อยากจะให้ท่านช่วยพวกผมและขอให้ช่วยด้วย

พวกผมเป็นคนจนก็เลยจำเป็นต้องเข้าเมืองไทยเพื่อทำงานหาเงิน เพื่อนผม ส่อลิน เป็นคนกำพร้าพ่อและต้องเลี้ยงดูคุณแม่ที่เป็นแม่หม้ายอยู่ ส่วน ผม เหว่เพียว เองก็ ต้องเลี้ยงดูคุณพ่อคุณแม่และคุณยายอยู่ ตอนที่ทาถึงเมืองไทยใหม่ๆนั้นต้องเจอกับปัญหาอุปสรรคมากหมาย แต่ พวกผมก็อยากพยายามหาเงินและเงินที่ได้มาโดยความยากลำบากนั้นก็ ส่งให้พ่อแม่ที่บ้าน โดยความปลาบปลื้มใจมาก

แต่ตอนนี้ความหวังของพวกผมก็ถูกทำลายไป พวกผมกังวงอยู่ว่าใครจะเลี้ยงดูพ่อแม่บ้าง คิดถึงพ่อแม่ทุกวัน และเวลาคิดถึงก็ร้อง ทุกวันที่เข้านอนพวกผมก็แผ่เมตตาให้แก่ สัตว์โลกทั้งหลายที่วนเวียนอยู่ใน 31 ภพชาติ ขอให้ปลอดภัยจากอันตรายทั้งหลายและสุขภาพแข็งแรง มีความสุขในชีวิต

ในขณะเดียวกัน อวยพรให้พวกผมเพื่อหลุดพ้นจากคดีนี้โดยเร็ว

เหว่เพียว และ ส่อลิน

‪#‎WinZawHtun‬ ‪#‎ZawLin‬
https://www.indiegogo.com/proje…/justice-koh-tao-murder-case

[ScarpoFongness4U]

they dont have the right to call themselves a mafia, as they have no honor

[sartoric]

No, but it takes a lot of money to buy off those who might have proof that he was there.

And you have exactly zero proof that anyone was bought off either as alibi providers, or escape accomplishes, or eyewitnesses, or anybody else.

.. except to maybe say we all know how corrupt Thailand is and that it has happened before, etc. etc.

Something that shouldn't be forgotten is that the reason the man some are so obsessed about become a suspect in the first place was because of tip-offs from social media.

As far as I've been able to piece together the order of events, it went like this...

Some days before the murders Sean McAnna had a motorcycle accident resulting in several cuts, someone at the bar he worked at helped him clean the blood, after the murders someone told Mon about that and either he assumed it must have happened after the murders or the source got the date wrong, in any case he jumped to the conclusion that McAnna had cuts and blood on him the day of the murders therefore he must had been be involved. Then he and a friend harassed McAnna at a 7-11, he made some posts on social media and then the feeding frenzy began.

Of course the conspiracy minded people at CSILA assumed that the men chasing McAnna were actually connected with the murder (and not just, as they were doing themselves, jumping to conclusions), at some point Nomsod pitched in in the discussions and someone decided that his defense(1) of his uncle meant that he must be connected to the murders too.

Any similarity between that and the persons here that see you, me, Jdinasia or anyone else being accused of being connected with the murders for not jumping in on their bandwagon is no mere coincidence; it's the same mindset: "why do they say something I disagree with? They must be in it!"

So the armchair detectives focused on Nomsod, decided he looked like the man on the CCTV footage and next thing you know the police announce they have identified the suspect; after the dust settled the police blamed incorrect information coming from Social Media for the whole thing (2). Of course that didn't felt right with the armchair detectives that were pumped up in the feeling they got the "real" murderer,

Now, in a perfect example of a (very) vicious circle the Social Media detectives point at the police announcement that Nomsod was a suspect to support their theories that he was involved in the murders, even though he became a suspect due to claims made in Social Media.

There's a name for that, Circular Reporting.

(1) Quote from the CSI-LA page "Well, the reason is because "Nom Sod" and his friends had posted comments on CSI during the time that Sean leaked out a statement that he was being threatened and bullied by the mafia. In many ways, this allowed Admin and people on CSI LA page to see the suspicious behavior and we were able to recognize the close similarity in the physical features of the suspect betweem the CCTV video and "Nom Sod"."

(2) On the day Nomsod was cleared: "Pol Gen Somyot pointed to groundless reports posted on social media that obstructed the investigation and confused the investigators."

An almost plausible response.

So, who do you think committed the crime ?

Two diminutive Burmese men with little respect in Thailand ?

A gang of entitled Thai men (and not necessarily NS) who are used to immunity from law or justice ?

There've been some other instances of unsolved crimes on this small island. Something's fishy.

[AleG]

My memory is good.

I recall they planted bloody trousers

I recall they had the headmans family

I recall they announced it was the headmans family

I recall. They suddenly got promotions and transfers off the island when they realized they may have made a mistake w uncle sutheps family

Gee whiz, even they thought the coup meant something

I recall their faces when they announced it was the headmans family

I recall their faces when they said it wasn't

I recall they beat a taxi driver

Your memory is not good, it's also very selective.

"I recall they planted bloody trousers"

You don't recall that after being examined they were not bloody to begin with?

"I recall they had the headmans family"

"I recall they announced it was the headmans family"

You don't recall them being cleared of involvement? You know, like the many other suspects that came and went.

"I recall. They suddenly got promotions and transfers off the island when they realized they may have made a mistake w uncle sutheps family"

Suthep... So that's it, you are using this murders to take political potshots? How noble.

Suthep has nothing to do with this, and there was nothing sudden about the promotion of Panya Mamen, it was scheduled since before the murders. But don't let facts get on the way of your political agenda.

"I recall their faces when they announced it was the headmans family"

"I recall their faces when they said it wasn't"

Good for you, it's completely irrelevant to anything though.

"I recall they beat a taxi driver"

Yes, allegedly, and that was wrong, allegedly.

[AleG]

From the same quote that AleG made above taken from CSILA but was extremely selective in his editing of its length:

Well,. the reason is because "Nom Sod" and his friends had posted comments on CSI during the time that Sean leaked out a statement that he was being threatened and bullied by the mafia. In many ways, this allowed Admin and people on CSI LA page to. see the suspicious behavior and we were able to recognize the close similarity in the physical features of the suspect betweem the CCTV video and "Nom Sod". Not long after that, a local area witness said they saw "Nom Sod" on the night of. the incident. Many have sent messages reporting that some people have told them about powerful figures and experiences of rape incidents taking place on Koh Tao.

The reason I point this out is that if people are now going to start quoting all the time from CSILA then do so in a balanced fashion and not with their own prejudice

Are you equating hearsay with first hand accounts?

The part you put in bold is hearsay, the part were the administration of the page directly takes ownership of some claims is not.

Its as much hearsay as any part of the statement, unless you are now claiming CSILA as a credible source of reports.

I find it strange that the very person who denounced CSILA in so many previous posts is now attempting to use it to add credibility to his statements, cant have it both ways

"We did such and such" is not hearsay, referring to statements from a third person is hearsay.

[AleG]

Something that shouldn't be forgotten is that the reason the man some are so obsessed about become a suspect in the first place was because of tip-offs from social media.

As far as I've been able to piece together the order of events, it went like this...

Some days before the murders Sean McAnna had a motorcycle accident resulting in several cuts, someone at the bar he worked at helped him clean the blood, after the murders someone told Mon about that and either he assumed it must have happened after the murders or the source got the date wrong, in any case he jumped to the conclusion that McAnna had cuts and blood on him the day of the murders therefore he must had been be involved. Then he and a friend harassed McAnna at a 7-11, he made some posts on social media and then the feeding frenzy began.

Of course the conspiracy minded people at CSILA assumed that the men chasing McAnna were actually connected with the murder (and not just, as they were doing themselves, jumping to conclusions), at some point Nomsod pitched in in the discussions and someone decided that his defense(1) of his uncle meant that he must be connected to the murders too.

Any similarity between that and the persons here that see you, me, Jdinasia or anyone else being accused of being connected with the murders for not jumping in on their bandwagon is no mere coincidence; it's the same mindset: "why do they say something I disagree with? They must be in it!"

So the armchair detectives focused on Nomsod, decided he looked like the man on the CCTV footage and next thing you know the police announce they have identified the suspect; after the dust settled the police blamed incorrect information coming from Social Media for the whole thing (2). Of course that didn't felt right with the armchair detectives that were pumped up in the feeling they got the "real" murderer,

Now, in a perfect example of a (very) vicious circle the Social Media detectives point at the police announcement that Nomsod was a suspect to support their theories that he was involved in the murders, even though he became a suspect due to claims made in Social Media.

There's a name for that, Circular Reporting.

(1) Quote from the CSI-LA page "Well, the reason is because "Nom Sod" and his friends had posted comments on CSI during the time that Sean leaked out a statement that he was being threatened and bullied by the mafia. In many ways, this allowed Admin and people on CSI LA page to see the suspicious behavior and we were able to recognize the close similarity in the physical features of the suspect betweem the CCTV video and "Nom Sod"."

(2) On the day Nomsod was cleared: "Pol Gen Somyot pointed to groundless reports posted on social media that obstructed the investigation and confused the investigators."

An almost plausible response.

So, who do you think committed the crime ?

Two diminutive Burmese men with little respect in Thailand ?

A gang of entitled Thai men (and not necessarily NS) who are used to immunity from law or justice ?

There've been some other instances of unsolved crimes on this small island. Something's fishy.

As the evidence stands now the two men on trial are likely to be involved in the murders.

Something that may or may not have happened before is not evidence of someone else being responsible.

[thailandchilli]

From the same quote that AleG made above taken from CSILA but was extremely selective in his editing of its length:

Well,. the reason is because "Nom Sod" and his friends had posted comments on CSI during the time that Sean leaked out a statement that he was being threatened and bullied by the mafia. In many ways, this allowed Admin and people on CSI LA page to. see the suspicious behavior and we were able to recognize the close similarity in the physical features of the suspect betweem the CCTV video and "Nom Sod". Not long after that, a local area witness said they saw "Nom Sod" on the night of. the incident. Many have sent messages reporting that some people have told them about powerful figures and experiences of rape incidents taking place on Koh Tao.

The reason I point this out is that if people are now going to start quoting all the time from CSILA then do so in a balanced fashion and not with their own prejudice

Are you equating hearsay with first hand accounts?

The part you put in bold is hearsay, the part were the administration of the page directly takes ownership of some claims is not.

Its as much hearsay as any part of the statement, unless you are now claiming CSILA as a credible source of reports.

I find it strange that the very person who denounced CSILA in so many previous posts is now attempting to use it to add credibility to his statements, cant have it both ways

"We did such and such" is not hearsay, referring to statements from a third person is hearsay.

So in other words anything that is not hearsay on CSI can be taken as credible, ok now that certainly opens up a can of worms

[mcm991]

You can recall whatever you like .... just don't point any fingers at people of influence on the island.

JD and AleG really don't like that.

Yes, fancy that. Some people take umbrage regarding witch hunts, how awful.

Some people? ........ oh ... you mean you and your sidekick.

You may be looking in the wrong direction if you are looking for a witch hunt. There is a good one going on right now ....... it is a pity that you are not allowed to see it.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

so, the headman was all over the newswires bragging about his offer of 100,000 baht if anyone could prove his family did it,

but, two of his employees instead were brought to the altar;

where was the headman then?

[PaPiPuPePo]

Groan.

More pages and pages of some earnest people wasting time and energy trying to do the impossible: convince these 2 guys that their theories about this case are no better supported than anyone else's, or less so (as I think most of us believe, with very good cause), or even engage them in an honest debate. Neither is interested in finding the truth, that should be obvious after months of this. They're merely interested in pushing their agenda and sidestepping or otherwise not responding directly to any statements that poke holes in their own stories.

It's like arguing with your fundamentalist Christian cousin; they're true believers, and nothing's going to change that. I lean towards the B2 being innocent, but am smart and candid enough to admit that I don't KNOW anything about this with certainty. These two guys have no better info than any of us, but they're willing to spend thousands of hours acting like they alone know the truth about this case.

So I've said it before and I'll say it again:

They should present their case in one go, if it's so rock solid (I'm not holding my breath for that).

The vast majority of people populating these threads who disagree with them should use their time and energy more productively: put all the info out there elsewhere on the internet (there is a website for that, can anyone share the URL?), and more importantly IMO engage with people in and outside Thailand who can have some influence: try get in touch with some of these friends of David and Hannah's; send information to the Thai media (MUCH more useful than arguing with these two guys); try track down Sean in Italy and see if he'll start talking, or anything but waste time here.

The fact that these two guys have posted tons of opinions here but I have not seen either express the slightest bit of sympathy for the victims in any of their thousands of posts about this murder should by itself speak volumes (granted, I've got both on ignore so only skim over what others quote, but I challenge anyone to quote me some such sympathy from either). Let them yell into the wind, or better yet into a vacuum!

[AleG]

"We did such and such" is not hearsay, referring to statements from a third person is hearsay.

So in other words anything that is not hearsay on CSI can be taken as credible, ok now that certainly opens up a can of worms

"In other words..." you may just begin with "This is my spin..."

[AleG]

You can recall whatever you like .... just don't point any fingers at people of influence on the island.

JD and AleG really don't like that.

Yes, fancy that. Some people take umbrage regarding witch hunts, how awful.

Some people? ........ oh ... you mean you and your sidekick.

You may be looking in the wrong direction if you are looking for a witch hunt. There is a good one going on right now ....... it is a pity that you are not allowed to see it.

I am not allowed to see it? Why not?

[JLCrab]

22 days

until Wednesday July 08 2015

a Wednesday 22 days from today

Edited June 16, 2015 by JLCrab

[balo]

Groan.

More pages and pages of some earnest people wasting time and energy trying to do the impossible: convince these 2 guys that their theories about this case are no better supported than anyone else's, or less so (as I think most of us believe, with very good cause), or even engage them in an honest debate. Neither is interested in finding the truth, that should be obvious after months of this. They're merely interested in pushing their agenda and sidestepping or otherwise not responding directly to any statements that poke holes in their own stories.

It's like arguing with your fundamentalist Christian cousin; they're true believers, and nothing's going to change that. I lean towards the B2 being innocent, but am smart and candid enough to admit that I don't KNOW anything about this with certainty. These two guys have no better info than any of us, but they're willing to spend thousands of hours acting like they alone know the truth about this case.

So I've said it before and I'll say it again:

They should present their case in one go, if it's so rock solid (I'm not holding my breath for that).

The vast majority of people populating these threads who disagree with them should use their time and energy more productively: put all the info out there elsewhere on the internet (there is a website for that, can anyone share the URL?), and more importantly IMO engage with people in and outside Thailand who can have some influence: try get in touch with some of these friends of David and Hannah's; send information to the Thai media (MUCH more useful than arguing with these two guys); try track down Sean in Italy and see if he'll start talking, or anything but waste time here.

The fact that these two guys have posted tons of opinions here but I have not seen either express the slightest bit of sympathy for the victims in any of their thousands of posts about this murder should by itself speak volumes (granted, I've got both on ignore so only skim over what others quote, but I challenge anyone to quote me some such sympathy from either). Let them yell into the wind, or better yet into a vacuum!

Please ignore me as well since you can not handle to see a case from both sides of the coin.

We all have sympathies for the victims , that is not a part of this discussion at all. We all have our opinions , this is not North Korea where you're not allowed to discuss freely.

I have given the Burmese guys a 50/50 chance to prove they are innocent. We will find out in court, please stop trying to make some of us look like having no sympathies with the victims.

And please but me on ignore if you like.

Edited June 16, 2015 by balo

[PaPiPuPePo]

The fact that these two guys have posted tons of opinions here but I have not seen either express the slightest bit of sympathy for the victims in any of their thousands of posts about this murder should by itself speak volumes (granted, I've got both on ignore so only skim over what others quote, but I challenge anyone to quote me some such sympathy from either). Let them yell into the wind, or better yet into a vacuum!

Please ignore me as well since you can not handle to see a case from both sides of the coin.

We all have sympathies for the victims , that is not a part of this discussion at all. We all have our opinions , this is not North Korea where you're not allowed to discuss freely.

I have given the Burmese guys a 50/50 chance to prove they are innocent. We will find out in court, please stop trying to make some of us look like having no sympathies with the victims.

And please but me on ignore if you like.

Thank you so much for giving me permission to ignore you. So generous.

Your accusation towards me (" you can not handle to see a case from both sides of the coin") is ad hominem and unfounded. I have never demonstrated such an inability. I haven't paid too much attention to your generally short messages because, frankly, IIRC they've mostly been low-wattage rehashing or re-stating of what the hang-the-B2 coterie tries to hammer home on every page; methinks you're projecting your own inability on to me. My general impression of your posts is you have an obvious bias towards thinking them guilty, though maybe not obvious to yourself.

The part of my post you enlarged mentions two people--I think you well know who I mean. Also, it says "I have not seen." Rather than make unfounded assertions to the contrary, why don't you bolster your contention by providing one example of such? Since they've spewed tens of thousands of words, that shouldn't be too difficult should those statements exist. Good luck though.

BTW, the repeated "please do this/that" is pretty passive-agressive you know, just FYI. And again, I've said TWO, not SOME. Try addressing what people actually write.

You give the Burmese guys a 50/50 chance to prove they're innocent isn't, I think, what you mean, which would be a 50/50 chance _of proving_ they're innocent. Subtle difference in English but it changes the meaning. I've gathered from your posts you're not a native speaker though (not that many native speakers get that distinction either).

"We'll find out in court" is exactly the kind of claptrap I consider unworthy of responding to. Your faith in the utter integrity of the Thai court system is naive, at best.

Sharpen your wit if you can and try again.

[jdinasia]

The fact that these two guys have posted tons of opinions here but I have not seen either express the slightest bit of sympathy for the victims in any of their thousands of posts about this murder should by itself speak volumes (granted, I've got both on ignore so only skim over what others quote, but I challenge anyone to quote me some such sympathy from either). Let them yell into the wind, or better yet into a vacuum!

Please ignore me as well since you can not handle to see a case from both sides of the coin.

We all have sympathies for the victims , that is not a part of this discussion at all. We all have our opinions , this is not North Korea where you're not allowed to discuss freely.

I have given the Burmese guys a 50/50 chance to prove they are innocent. We will find out in court, please stop trying to make some of us look like having no sympathies with the victims.

And please but me on ignore if you like.

Thank you so much for giving me permission to ignore you. So generous.

Your accusation towards me (" you can not handle to see a case from both sides of the coin") is ad hominem and unfounded. I have never demonstrated such an inability. I haven't paid too much attention to your generally short messages because, frankly, IIRC they've mostly been low-wattage rehashing or re-stating of what the hang-the-B2 coterie tries to hammer home on every page; methinks you're projecting your own inability on to me. My general impression of your posts is you have an obvious bias towards thinking them guilty, though maybe not obvious to yourself.

The part of my post you enlarged mentions two people--I think you well know who I mean. Also, it says "I have not seen." Rather than make unfounded assertions to the contrary, why don't you bolster your contention by providing one example of such? Since they've spewed tens of thousands of words, that shouldn't be too difficult should those statements exist. Good luck though.

BTW, the repeated "please do this/that" is pretty passive-agressive you know, just FYI. And again, I've said TWO, not SOME. Try addressing what people actually write.

You give the Burmese guys a 50/50 chance to prove they're innocent isn't, I think, what you mean, which would be a 50/50 chance _of proving_ they're innocent. Subtle difference in English but it changes the meaning. I've gathered from your posts you're not a native speaker though (not that many native speakers get that distinction either).

"We'll find out in court" is exactly the kind of claptrap I consider unworthy of responding to. Your faith in the utter integrity of the Thai court system is naive, at best.

Sharpen your wit if you can and try again.

Apparently the answer is no, Balo

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Still,

Not a word from the headman about the arrest of his previously loyal worker

100,000 baht to the person who proves its his family

Zilch offered when his own employee is arrested

Not even an offer of payment for his legal needs

Not an offer of sympathy for the victims killed after leaving his bar

Not even an offer of shock that his employee might have been there

Nothing from the headman except bluster

[JLCrab]

Still,

Not a word from the headman about the arrest of his previously loyal worker

100,000 baht to the person who proves its his family

Zilch offered when his own employee is arrested

Not even an offer of payment for his legal needs

Not an offer of sympathy for the victims killed after leaving his bar

Not even an offer of shock that his employee might have been there

Nothing from the headman except bluster

Maybe as someone who might be a witness in an upcoming criminal case, he has an attorney who has told him: ShutUp.

[berybert]

Does anyone recall that police put bloody clothes in davids travel mates luggage?

Nope.

Didn't happen

This is where you always let yourself down.

Of course you are right it didn't happen. The police put muddy trousers/shorts in Davids travel mates luggage. They thought the mud was blood.

Is that clearer now ?

Please don't try to clarify things, you have already been explained that this "The police put muddy trousers/shorts in Davids travel mates luggage." is false; either that didn't get through or you persist on peddling false information; which by the way is against forum rule #2 "You will not use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false"

Sorry ? So who put the muddy trousers in the luggage ?