Political parties call for changes to Thai charter

[webfact]

Political parties call for changes to charter
KASAMAKORN CHANWANPEN,
WATTANA KHAMCHU
THE NATION



BANGKOK: -- POLITICIANS from the rival Pheu Thai and Democrat parties agreed at yesterday's discussion on reconciliation hosted by the Army that the country's economy was now "really bad", a participant said.

Pheu Thai politician Worachai Hema said after the meeting that they also agreed the draft constitution needed to be revised, or the country would experience a "crisis even worse than before".

He said they called on the constitution drafters to heed advice from politicians and members of the public as to how the draft charter should be revised.

Participants at yesterday's discussion expressed satisfaction, saying the discussions went well and covered such issues as the new constitution, justice and the economy.

Political figures and activists from the Pheu Thai and Democrat parties took part in the second round of the reconciliation talks under the theme "The Future of Thailand", organised by the Centre for Reconciliation and Reform.

The closed-door meeting, chaired by Army chief of staff General Chatchalerm Chalermsuk, was held at the Thai Army Club and lasted about six hours.

Most of the participants refused to talk to reporters waiting outside. They simply left the venue after the meeting ended at about 4pm.

Among the participants were Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, Pheu Thai politicians Worachai, Jatuporn Promphan, Nuttawut Saikuar, Surapong Tovichakchaikul, Noppadon Pattama, and Kittiratt Na-Ranong.

Other participants included Seri Wongmontha, Chermsak Pinthong and Somsak Kosaisuk.

Some of the participants, including political figures from Thaksin Shinawatra's camp, left the talks early.

Jatuporn said the overview of the talks was good, adding that the chairman, General Chatchalerm, was open to suggestions from all sides.

Jatuporn, who is also chairman of the red-shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship, said he had expressed his concerns over the draft constitution whose contents he believed would trigger the same old political "vicious cycle" and would ultimately cause inestimable damage to the country.

He said for the country to move forward, the new constitution must be democratic. If not, the best thing that could deter a catastrophe is a national referendum on the draft charter.

Jatuporn said he had no concerns about the powers-that-be wanting to remain in power for a long time. Being in power was like playing with fire, he said.

Foreign ministers of former Pheu Thai governments, Noppadon and Surapong, agreed that the talks went well. They confirmed the issues covered at the meeting involved general principles that would take the country forward.

No particular persons, not even Thaksin, were discussed during the meeting, they said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Political-parties-call-for-changes-to-charter-30261567.html

-- The Nation 2015-06-04

[smedly]

Mistake No 1 and a primary one at that -

Politicians should have absolutely no special say in the new charter - the reason is obvious and I have explained why before for those that don't get it so I'm not repeating it, they can have the same input as any other Citizen but nothing more

[heybruce]

The chosen lackeys of a military junta that overthrew an elected government have come up with a flawed charter. Did anyone expect anything else?

Politicians aren't the only ones that object, but censorship and the threat of attitude adjustment is keeping things quiet for now.

[FangFerang]

At first, I think they didn't want the politicians involved, which to me, at first, seemed like a good idea. However, the politicians have consolidated power bases. If Abhisit and every Shin on earth vanished into the Marianas Trench in a storm, there would still be a yellow voting block and a red voting block of voters who would jump in with the newest drivers of their respective bandwagons.

Same thing happens in America. Hard core Dems will go along with their color coded leaders, just as hard core Repubs will go along with their color coded leaders.

The two sets of groups, being Thai voters and American voters, each have their own justifications for doing so, but the end result is exactly the same, precisely the same, and empirically identical. The end results in both examples over the last twelve years have also been identical political train wrecks.

[Anthony5]

Mistake No 1 and a primary one at that -

Politicians should have absolutely no special say in the new charter - the reason is obvious and I have explained why before for those that don't get it so I'm not repeating it, they can have the same input as any other Citizen but nothing more

Sure, because superman knows it all.

[Ulic]

Politicians on both sides agree changes need to be made so they can get back to lining there

pockets, fattening there bank accounts, upgrading there cars and buying additional recreation

homes.

[Fat Haggis]

Mistake No 1 and a primary one at that -

Politicians should have absolutely no special say in the new charter - the reason is obvious and I have explained why before for those that don't get it so I'm not repeating it, they can have the same input as any other Citizen but nothing more

Mistake number 2

Farangs with opinions that mean nothing to those participating in mistake number 1 !!!

[tbthailand]

Mistake No 1 and a primary one at that -

Politicians should have absolutely no special say in the new charter - the reason is obvious and I have explained why before for those that don't get it so I'm not repeating it, they can have the same input as any other Citizen but nothing more

the fact is that the input on the draft of the constitution from "any other Citizen" in Thailand other than those chosen by the military junta is "zero"...

So your wish has been fulfilled.

[scorecard]

At first, I think they didn't want the politicians involved, which to me, at first, seemed like a good idea. However, the politicians have consolidated power bases. If Abhisit and every Shin on earth vanished into the Marianas Trench in a storm, there would still be a yellow voting block and a red voting block of voters who would jump in with the newest drivers of their respective bandwagons.

Same thing happens in America. Hard core Dems will go along with their color coded leaders, just as hard core Repubs will go along with their color coded leaders.

The two sets of groups, being Thai voters and American voters, each have their own justifications for doing so, but the end result is exactly the same, precisely the same, and empirically identical. The end results in both examples over the last twelve years have also been identical political train wrecks.

Agree - if we just see the reemergence of the same old political parties and faces.

Don't agree - if we see new parties with lots of new faces who effuse to let old faces join them and the new parties have solid and specific manifestos.

A big wish list.

[smedly]

Mistake No 1 and a primary one at that -

Politicians should have absolutely no special say in the new charter - the reason is obvious and I have explained why before for those that don't get it so I'm not repeating it, they can have the same input as any other Citizen but nothing more

Mistake number 2

Farangs with opinions that mean nothing to those participating in mistake number 1 !!!

Then don't bother posting here mate if that's your opinion, or put me on ignore

[heybruce]

I just used this on another post, but it's applicable here. From Bloomberg, April 20, 2015:

"To break this deadlock, the new constitution would weaken the clout of elected politicians. A proportional voting system would encourage smaller parties and coalition governments in the lower house of parliament, while the upper house would be filled with a mix of candidates nominated by committee or selected by professional groups, including one dominated by former military figures. Under certain circumstances, the prime minister could be appointed from outside parliament. Watchdog agencies perceived to be tied to the establishment would get new powers. Thus, unelected elites could mind the store, rather than ordinary voters -- thought to be too susceptible to populist blandishments."

"Such a system would hark back to Thailand's failed past. Earlier constitutions also featured an appointed prime minister and senate, along with a weak lower house. But the old system produced 25 coalition governments from 1979 until Thaksin's election in 2001. And because many ordinary Thais, voting that year under a liberalized constitution, saw their circumstances improve under Thaksin, even the poor have grown used to the idea that their votes matter. They can hardly be expected to again trust their fates to a clique of "wise men" in Bangkok."

"Nor is there any reason to believe that constitutional tweaks can eliminate the main vices attributed to Thaksinite administrations. The junta has amply demonstrated that unelected governments can resort to populist measures as easily as any other, having disbursed billions in subsidies to mollify rice farmers loyal to the previous government. Weak coalition governments would face even more pressure to buy support."

"Rampant corruption, meanwhile, did not begin with Thaksin's arrival and won't end with his family’s exit from the political scene. Cutting back on graft requires greater transparency, as well as watchdogs that are truly independent. There’s little evidence the new constitution will promote either."

"The solution isn’t to disempower politicians, as if they were some malign species. Only voters can give government legitimacy. And the only true, sustainable check on any future Thai government is the threat of being voted out of power. The way for opposition parties to defeat Thaksin’s popular electoral machine is to do the hard work of developing a national agenda and appeal. Any constitution that tries to get around basic democracy will only ensure that another one needs to be written in a few years." http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-04-20/thailand-needs-elected-leaders-not-a-new-constitution

A short summary: the draft charter greatly reduces democracy, it's been tried before and failed, the Thai people won't accept it, it does nothing to tackle the problem of corruption often used to justify the coup, and parties that lose elections should stop trying to come to power through other means and try to make themselves more electable.

I and others have been posting much the same things for a year, but people who want to believe in simple answers and quick fixes keep putting their faith in a military junta.

[wowfactor10]

I honestly have given up on the place and on how they practice politics over here..

Best of luck..

[Srikcir]

Mistake No 1 and a primary one at that -

Politicians should have absolutely no special say in the new charter - the reason is obvious and I have explained why before for those that don't get it so I'm not repeating it, they can have the same input as any other Citizen but nothing more

But it's a little difficult to fit 30 million Thais in a meeting room. Maybe hold a meeting in the middle of the Adamant Sea?

Participatory democracy is about having political affiliations that have common interests. Leaders of those affiliations, parties, groups, etc. represent their constituency. When a nation has a large voting population it cannot have effective individual participation like Switzerland or Malta.

But if one wants to be critical about individuals receiving special political consideration, one must also look to the small military cadre that RULES the nation and decides what is right for the Thai people without approval or being accountability to the people.