80-baht price control takes toll on small Thai lottery vendors

[Smokemachine]

The small vendors are telling the key issue about their overpriced tickets. The problem is very clear. It is always the big cash buying and reselling to these lower end vendors. Easy quick profit turnover.

is there a way to stop this?

If the government want the ticket officially sold at 80baht, then they need to explore new regulations for all vendors to purchase the tickets at the same cost price. Find a way to prevent them from resell the quota.

When the sellers bought at 70baht, some bought at 74baht, some bought at 75baht, the sellers are not in a fair level. When some sellers pushing hard to sell off 1000 tickets (for eg. cost price is 75baht), they earn 5000baht. While some others are also selling away 1000 tickets but they have already earned 10000baht, because their cost price is at 70baht.

You can see every level is not consistent from the top end vendors to the very low end ticket sellers. But the government wants the selling price fixed at 80baht, is it feasible?

In order to get the 80baht policy done, perhaps they need to rethink the quotas handling out to the vendors.

For me personally, I would prefer the lottery tickets sold by the GLO itself (no one is going to benefit by reselling the tickets to lower vendors) OR simply give the quota only to the disabled/ handicapped personnel. ONLY REGISTERED PERSONNEL beforehand will be given the quota and the quota will be share out evenly to the handicapped vendors.

This ticket selling is a too easy job for the healthy people. I believe since those healthy vendors are able to have big cash for the quota, they can also make a good living doing other trade as well. I would rather implement a policy to cater only just the disabled citizens for their living.

What is the objective of selling lottery from the GLO's point of view?

I would rather give more happiness to the poor Thais than making the rich become more richer.

I believe there are many jobs available for the healthy group at anytime.

[maidee]

well, they can always go back work the field for 200 baht per day

[casualbiker]

I have been reading all your comments, none of you came up with "The sellers bringing this onto themselves"

Few years ago in Pattaya they came around and you could buy for 90bt. We were ok with that but then they started 100 with some pushing for 110bt. We even had some trying for 120bt.

Now there must have been complaints gone in and it has gotten to to Top.

All I can say really is you brought it on your selves being to greedy.

Who agrees with this.

The only greedy ones here are the Junta and the major wholesalers who they are protecting and no doubt receiving a kick back. The 5 tigers contracts were up, so why allow them to continue? Because it is all about the money, where it goes and to whom it goes. This country is never going to change while you have scum like these in charge.

Did they renew the contracts?

[billd766]

I don't understand these people, 6,000 baht profit isn't enough, the lottery is not supposed to be a primary source of income.

Really they don't like it is because they can't scam us now!

If they don't like it, go home there will be someone else to replace them.

Really? Can you please point out the links that says selling lottery tickets is not supposed to be a primary source of income?

Do you know who pays for the unsold lottery tickets? It isn't you or anybody other than the lottery seller.

Nobody forces you to buy a lottery ticket and if you feel you are being scammed, then simply don't buy a ticket.

If you think you are being scammed I have a quote for you,

"If they you don't like it, go home there will be someone else to replace them you."

[billd766]

@colin. Your comment shows just how stupid you are. How long do you think it would take a person to sell 1000 lottery tickets to make a profit of 6000B. Sounds like a full time job to me. And for some of these poor individuals the selling of lottery tickets is their only means of getting any form of income for many various reasons none of which I will bother wasting my time explaining to Mr. Braindead.

I made a constructive valid point, 6,000baht is a good wage especially for someone from the provinces. Its a job an uneducated person can do they have not studied for a university degree and probably not even finished high school so again 6,000 baht is a good wage, If you don't like it so be it, but no need to call me Stupid, because that I am not.

If you think that 200 baht per day is a good wage then try living on it for a week. In GBP it is around £4 per DAY.

[billd766]

So, after a certain percentage of the street level vendors give up selling lottery tickets due to the lower profits, and some of them do not get any better jobs, and the unemployment rate rises a bit, and the overall sales of lottery tickets declines a bit, and the government lottery revenue declines...

Who will be blamed?

The PM and the government by some instead of the GLO and the "five tigers".

[DLock]

Does anyone know the cost of the books to the lottery agents or wholesalers?

The price to registered retail agents is 70.40 baht per retail agent, and they each get an allocation of 500 tickets per drawing.

Certain organizations receive tickets at a special price of 68.80 baht per ticket. It is unclear how many tickets they receive or how they dispose of them.

And unsold tickets cannot be returned (which is stupid)

Really?

I assumed that they could return any unsold tickets within a certain timeframe before the lottery draw.

That could be an expensive problem.

[robblok]

I have been reading all your comments, none of you came up with "The sellers bringing this onto themselves"

Few years ago in Pattaya they came around and you could buy for 90bt. We were ok with that but then they started 100 with some pushing for 110bt. We even had some trying for 120bt.

Now there must have been complaints gone in and it has gotten to to Top.

All I can say really is you brought it on your selves being to greedy.

Who agrees with this.

The only greedy ones here are the Junta and the major wholesalers who they are protecting and no doubt receiving a kick back. The 5 tigers contracts were up, so why allow them to continue? Because it is all about the money, where it goes and to whom it goes. This country is never going to change while you have scum like these in charge.

Did they renew the contracts?

I read that the contracts were not renewed.. but could be wrong here.

[Jimbo53]

Does anyone know the cost of the books to the lottery agents or wholesalers?

I was told by a seller that the Government sell them to the Five Thai Families that buy all the tickets at source for 74 Bht each.

[tartempion]

well, they can always go back work the field for 200 baht per day

No one works for 200B a day over here (40 kms East of Udon Thani)

[Scouse123]

I can't believe this thread!

Clearly printed on a lottery ticket is the retail selling price. The gravy train has stopped at the station and they don't like it.

The rest about mafias, middle men, elite buying them all up in bulk and reselling, poor vendors is a load of side issues and nonsense.

If the profit isn't there at that price, change your business to something that is worthwhile and where you can make a living.

Let's increase the cost of cars then as the cleaner in the showroom isn't getting a fair deal out of the sale, eh? She's poor with a family to feed. Let's put 20% or 30% extra on the advertised price of the car, ridiculous? Yes, it is!!!

[Saan]

Of course this is a drop in the bucket compared to some lottery scams. The DSI is currently investigating one that cheated people in Chiang Mai of 760 million baht.

There was another one in Loei back in 2011. I think the figure there was 300 million baht. Some local heavyweights were involved and the investigation was going nowhere until the DSI were pulled in.

[Jonmarleesco]

Typically the government clamps down on the retail price, but not the upstream one.

[BritTim]

Does anyone know the cost of the books to the lottery agents or wholesalers?

Yes, the 5 tigers, each pay 380bahts a book of 10... but buy many books and redistribute to other wholesalers and then to the street gang leaders who in turn sell to the street sellers who then sell on to you and me... and many times there is a third wholesaler in there.... The lady I normally buy my single ticket from, she took my 100 bahts and offered no change this week until I pointed out her 80baht sign.. I felt bad to take it ..But.... the only way to hurt the guys at the top is to squeeze from the bottom up..! This very corrupt lottery needs to be ran similar the Eurolottery as there is no shortage of 7/11 shops to cover the nation.. and it needs much more transparency from the start to finish.... I don't think we would be surprised if we saw a list of the "big" prize winners over the last 10 years.. a nudge and a wink..!

So:

government gets 38 baht per ticket

wholesaler gets 36 baht per ticket

retailer gets 6 baht per ticket

I think we can see where the problem is.

Yes, the primary problem is people spouting complete nonsense.

Each book contains 100 tickets.

The price charged to registered retail agents is 70.40 baht per ticket. They get an allocation of 5 books (500 tickets) per drawing. Assuming they sell all their tickets at 80 baht, their margin at 9.60 baht per ticket is 4,800 baht per drawing or 9,600 baht per month. Thus far, this is fairly transparent. It is pretty easy to find out who the registered retail agents are.

There are then associations and organizations that receive an unclear number of tickets at a special discounted price of 68.80 baht per ticket. I imagine it is from these that the unregistered vendors must generally purchase their tickets.

As I understand it, the payout in prizes is 48 baht per ticket. The Thai treasury ends up with 16 baht per ticket. The rest is shared between the vendors, GLO and some pork barrel entities.

[ddavidovsky]

Does anyone know the cost of the books to the lottery agents or wholesalers?

Yes, the 5 tigers, each pay 380bahts a book of 10... but buy many books and redistribute to other wholesalers and then to the street gang leaders who in turn sell to the street sellers who then sell on to you and me... and many times there is a third wholesaler in there.... The lady I normally buy my single ticket from, she took my 100 bahts and offered no change this week until I pointed out her 80baht sign.. I felt bad to take it ..But.... the only way to hurt the guys at the top is to squeeze from the bottom up..! This very corrupt lottery needs to be ran similar the Eurolottery as there is no shortage of 7/11 shops to cover the nation.. and it needs much more transparency from the start to finish.... I don't think we would be surprised if we saw a list of the "big" prize winners over the last 10 years.. a nudge and a wink..!

So:

government gets 38 baht per ticket

wholesaler gets 36 baht per ticket

retailer gets 6 baht per ticket

I think we can see where the problem is.

Yes, the primary problem is people spouting complete nonsense.

Each book contains 100 tickets.

The price charged to registered retail agents is 70.40 baht per ticket. They get an allocation of 5 books (500 tickets) per drawing. Assuming they sell all their tickets at 80 baht, their margin at 9.60 baht per ticket is 4,800 baht per drawing or 9,600 baht per month. Thus far, this is fairly transparent. It is pretty easy to find out who the registered retail agents are.

There are then associations and organizations that receive an unclear number of tickets at a special discounted price of 68.80 baht per ticket. I imagine it is from these that the unregistered vendors must generally purchase their tickets.

As I understand it, the payout in prizes is 48 baht per ticket. The Thai treasury ends up with 16 baht per ticket. The rest is shared between the vendors, GLO and some pork barrel entities.

Just trying to get this straight, because it still isn't.

The vendor in the OP said she was paying 74 baht per ticket, not 70.4 baht. Which is it?

You say the government ends up with 16 baht per ticket after payout 48 baht per ticket in prizes, implying that the price to the middlemen is 64 baht per ticket. But somebody above said it is 38 baht per ticket. Big discrepancy. Which is it? Is the 48 baht per ticket prize payout transparent? Just wondering.

As to the middlemen, can someone explain exactly what they do? The solution to this problem seems entirely to involve putting a fair price on that service (whatever it is).

[greenchair]

I don't understand these people, 6,000 baht profit isn't enough, the lottery is not supposed to be a primary source of income.

Really they don't like it is because they can't scam us now!

If they don't like it, go home there will be someone else to replace them.

It has never been the lottery sellers that scam us. It is the wholesale buyers that have cornered the market scamming. The sellers had to lower their price by 10 to 20 baht. Meanwhile the big buyers and the lottery office did not lower their price by a single penny. Once again the little people getting kicked, while the fat wallets of others continue to fatten wiggling through the loop holes.

[Scouse123]

A few options here.

1. Don't buy them as it only encourages the rampant corruption that goes with it.

2. Continue paying your normal inflated fee to help the poor who sell them and satisfy yourself and be happy with your thoughts that you are helping.

3. Boycott purchasing them until they are moved and sold only through authorised outlets such as 7-11, Tesco, Big C, etc

I personally feel they are lousy value for money compared to other lotteries across Europe.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Scouse123

[BritTim]

Yes, the primary problem is people spouting complete nonsense.

Each book contains 100 tickets.

The price charged to registered retail agents is 70.40 baht per ticket. They get an allocation of 5 books (500 tickets) per drawing. Assuming they sell all their tickets at 80 baht, their margin at 9.60 baht per ticket is 4,800 baht per drawing or 9,600 baht per month. Thus far, this is fairly transparent. It is pretty easy to find out who the registered retail agents are.

There are then associations and organizations that receive an unclear number of tickets at a special discounted price of 68.80 baht per ticket. I imagine it is from these that the unregistered vendors must generally purchase their tickets.

As I understand it, the payout in prizes is 48 baht per ticket. The Thai treasury ends up with 16 baht per ticket. The rest is shared between the vendors, GLO and some pork barrel entities.

Just trying to get this straight, because it still isn't.

The vendor in the OP said she was paying 74 baht per ticket, not 70.4 baht. Which is it?

You say the government ends up with 16 baht per ticket after payout 48 baht per ticket in prizes, implying that the price to the middlemen is 64 baht per ticket. But somebody above said it is 38 baht per ticket. Big discrepancy. Which is it? Is the 48 baht per ticket prize payout transparent? Just wondering.

As to the middlemen, can someone explain exactly what they do? The solution to this problem seems entirely to involve putting a fair price on that service (whatever it is).

Indeed, not all is clear.

It is also worth mentioning that the situation today is not exactly the same as it was a few months ago. What I describe is the situation as I understand it today.

By law, the price to registered retail agents is supposed to be 70.40 baht. There are two provisos.

1. Not all vendors are registered retail agents. Those who are not registered (or registered agents who want more than their statutory allocation of 500 tickets) must negotiate a price.
2. In the same way that buyers have been overcharged by vendors, retail agents have probably been overcharged by the wholesalers appointed to distribute to the retail vendors.

We need to add to this cases where tickets are purchased from the distributors and then resold to other retail vendors. I suspect there is quite a lot of that also.

My understanding is that the official wholesalers pay 68.80 baht per ticket.

As for how the pie is cut up,

• The 60% payout in prizes (48 baht per ticket) is probably correct. It is not obvious how they could avoid paying the prizes as printed on the ticket.
• The 20% to the Thai treasury (16 baht per ticket) could be fiddled by understating the number of tickets sold. I do not know if this is properly audited.
• The remaining 20% (16 baht per ticket) is split several ways. Ideally, the retail vendor gets 12% (9.60 baht). Ideally, the wholesaler gets about 2% (1.60 baht) for not doing much. I think the GLO is supposed to get about 3% (2.40 baht per ticket) as management fees. Then there is something about 3% for "social activities" and 2% "to provide discounts to foundations". Let us just say that some of this is hard to verify.

What I outline above is not an audited account of the Thai lottery. There is plenty of scope for funds to be siphoned off. However, it is an accurate reprise of what is supposed to happen. This is all I know.

[masquerade]

I have been reading all your comments, none of you came up with "The sellers bringing this onto themselves"

Few years ago in Pattaya they came around and you could buy for 90bt. We were ok with that but then they started 100 with some pushing for 110bt. We even had some trying for 120bt.

Now there must have been complaints gone in and it has gotten to to Top.

All I can say really is you brought it on your selves being to greedy.

Who agrees with this.

The only greedy ones here are the Junta and the major wholesalers who they are protecting and no doubt receiving a kick back. The 5 tigers contracts were up, so why allow them to continue? Because it is all about the money, where it goes and to whom it goes. This country is never going to change while you have scum like these in charge.

Did they renew the contracts?

He who believes he walks on water indicated he wasn't going to, then all quiet and they are carrying on business. Didn't expect much else from this clown without a circus in town.