Families: No justice in Israeli inquiry on Gaza beach deaths

[Jingthing]

So Israel does "war crimes" and Hamas ... no war crimes including against their own children and people? Is that it?

You do realize innocent children get killed in just about any and all wars.

Yet oddly this bizarre unbalanced obsession with Israel.

Why is that? Why Israel? Why the obsession?

Edited June 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[Linky]

So Israel does "war crimes" and Hamas ... no war crimes including against their own children and people? Is that it?

You do realize innocent children get killed in just about any and all wars.

Yet oddly this bizarre unbalanced obsession with Israel.

Why is that? Why Israel? Why the obsession?

Because this is a thread about Israel. So to stay on topic Im talking about Israel. Hamas is not the topic.

Sometimes innocent children get killed, but Israel had no idea who they were bombing. People were there and Israel wanted them dead. They didnt know or care who it was, they just hoped it was Hamas. They were wrong, and that is a tragedy.

But then along comes some who then pluck excuses out of thin air in an attempt to justify the murder. The murder of innocent children.

Its digusting how some on here will stoop to such levels as denigrating those boys just so their own ego of never being wrong can be satisfied.

[Jingthing]

No, you're wrong.

This is about Hamas.

Who had an active military zone in the area the boys were playing?

HAMAS.

What force was Israel responding to during that war? HAMAS.

If you think Israel was the only player in this conflict, the one where those boys were killed in a war, you're being horribly dishonest.

BTW ... if you were accusing me of denigrating those specific boys, that's wrong, I never did that, I don't know anything about their specific involvement although boys that young are trained there in the terrorist arts ... I do believe they were playing that day and certainly nobody deserves to die in a war playing on a beach ... but stuff like that happens in WARS.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[Linky]

No, you're wrong.

This is about Hamas.

Who had an active military zone in the area the boys were playing?

HAMAS.

What force was Israel responding to during that war? HAMAS.

If you think Israel was the only player in this conflict, the one where those boys were killed in a war, you're being horribly dishonest.

BTW ... if you were accusing me of denigrating those specific boys, that's wrong, I never did that, I don't know anything about their specific involvement although boys that young are trained there in the terrorist arts ... I do believe they were playing that day and certainly nobody deserves to die in a war playing on a beach ... but stuff like that happens in WARS.

No i wasnt accusing you. It was others.

The facts are that Israel had no idea who they were bombing but did so anyway. Reckless bombing on persons unknown. Big mistake, murder, war crime.

[Jingthing]

So you're the accuser and prosecutor. Good luck with that, mate.

[simple1]

No, you're wrong.

This is about Hamas.

Who had an active military zone in the area the boys were playing?

HAMAS.

What force was Israel responding to during that war? HAMAS.

If you think Israel was the only player in this conflict, the one where those boys were killed in a war, you're being horribly dishonest.

BTW ... if you were accusing me of denigrating those specific boys, that's wrong, I never did that, I don't know anything about their specific involvement although boys that young are trained there in the terrorist arts ... I do believe they were playing that day and certainly nobody deserves to die in a war playing on a beach ... but stuff like that happens in WARS.

The OP is not about Hamas, it's in reference to a review of Israeli military action. Within the IDF report, as a consequence of the tragic killing of children, it clearly states there will be a review of IDF ROE and target identification processes; how this can then be turned around as being about Hamas I find rather odd.

One individual in particular has tried 'blame the victim' that you correctly refuted. However, it does underline the vehement support of Israeli actions, as is so often the case in this forum, no matter the outcome for non combatants.

I repeat can anyone point to a report of a formal apology / compensation for the victims families.

EDIT: I did locate a public apology by the Israeli President, was this followed up by communication with the families?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28339796

Edited June 13, 2015 by simple1

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[sirineou]

What an amazing debate.

Israeli apologist arguments run the gamut of outright denial as does the OP that the IDF are completely blameless yet without any transparent presentation of evidence.

Then it was justifiable homicide because the entire Gaza strip was a war zone, the exclusive realm of extremists including the journalists from the Guardian and the New York Times in the popular hotel opposite witnessing the whole atrocity.

Then we had deflection: yeah, maybe IDF did do it but what about illegal immigration into Europe??

Then we finally plumbed the depths by blaming the parents: they are looking not for justice for the love of their kids but compensation money, and further distortion: what were they doing actually allowing their children to play in Gaza?

No ... then it got worse: the innocent child victims themselves were to blame : the kids would probably have grown to adulthood if they had not been blown apart, and ....I couldn't believe it...they had just come from digging tunnels for Hamas.

Wouldn't it have been an enormous boost to IDF credibility if they had simply said:

Yes, we made a mistake because ...someone misread the coordinates, ... or we had some trigger happy gunner..or orders had come from on high that if it moves, shoot it...whatever ... and the person(s) involved are under investigation, charged or punished or our rules of engagement have been seriously revised.

Or even a totally open transparent presentation of all the evidence available to allow the world to decide, if the IDF can't.

Imagine the impact. Past and future IDF inquiries would have become far more believable.

But no, we are left with the usual: the IDF can do no wrong...which of course is ridiculous, be a first for any army in history and no-one believes it. Does more harm than good for Israel.

It is amazing to me that these apologists, using the logic they use, made their way all the way to Thailand. I am sure they had to purchase tickets, get on airplanes make connecting flights.

and yet, somehow they made it all the way here!

incredible!! unless of course they were not heading for here, and got lost, which is a more possible explanation.

Why do you even bother debating with them? if you look at all the Israel based threads, in the past 10 years or so that I have frequent this forum , you will find the same usual suspects engaging in the same usual tripe. giving each other" likes"

, do you really think you will now show them the light? they will now some how develop reason? and compassion for their fellow human beings?

People talk about the Holocaust and how it was allowed to happen?

Read the responses of the apologists,

This is exactly how it was allowed to happen,

and is being allowed to happen now.

I suggest in the future, you replace the word, "apologist" with

enabler .

[Seastallion]

Yes, it was a war.

Tell us something we didn't know, dude.

You say "crimes committed" when you don't know if any crimes were committed.

Certainly not all deaths of non-combatants during active combat in war situations are any kind of crime.

I certainly understand not accepting an IDF report as the final word of truth on this matter, but it is surely closer to the truth than Hamas propaganda.

Good on you for finally coming round and "certainly" understanding not accepting the IDF report as the final word. You started out with the usual stance that any questioning of the report is Israel demonisation. Well done, let's hope you have more change for the good in future. It shows good strength of character.

You say the report is surely closer to the truth than Hamas propaganda. Surely not "surely", for sure! Such is propaganda...whose side is the more truthful? Besides, I have seen no Hamas propaganda presented in this thread, so it is difficult to compare.

So lets look at what we have;

We have the journalist's eye-witness accounts. Lets assume that those accounts contain no lies albeit you might think the accounts are biased, any bias is just word-play not factual error.

And we have an IDF report that you yourself admit is questionable. A report that offers no evidence, just 2nd and third-hand testimony that we don't get to see, just hear about. The IDF has in it's possession audio and video. But does not offer it.

Why would the IDF not present video evidence if it showed there was no wrongdoing? Especially in the circumstances where the whole world is watching and politically Israel and the IDF need to show up the demonisers as wrong?

Why?

[Jingthing]

It's about Hamas in the sense that in a war there are warring sides.

At least two.

Israel was attacking targets in Gaza in military response to attacks from Gaza, mostly from the military wing of HAMAS.

No Hamas ... no war ... no dead kids on the beach.

The people yelling "murder" without hard evidence act like Israel was there to be evil sadists.

No, it was a military action and the goal was to destroy the Hamas rocket capability and also to minimize Israeli losses, civilian and military.

That is always a balance ... Israel was careful up to a point but each level of increased caution results in more losses on their side.

For example going on ground rather than bombing guarantees larger Israeli losses.

It can be argued both ways ... that Israel was too careful and lost people unnecessarily to the enemy and also that they were not careful enough.

Difficult stuff. Reasonable people can disagree on that one.

Of course obviously for the people who are Hamas cheerleaders and agree with those racist Jihadist terrorists that Israel should not exist and should have never existed (like some posters here), they would want Israel to take as many casualties as possible.

Awful things happen in military actions.

I am not saying it's a done deal that "war crimes" didn't happen at that beach.

I don't know.

But the Israel demonizers are acting like they do know.

That's pretty disgusting.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[Pakboong]

I guess the only rational way to evaluate this one is to imagine that the 4 dead children were Israelis killed by a Palestinian rocket. Would the fog of war hold up as a serious excuse?

[simple1]

I guess the only rational way to evaluate this one is to imagine that the 4 dead children were Israelis killed by a Palestinian rocket. Would the fog of war hold up as a serious excuse?

The Israelis were monitoring the target in real time, no comparison whatsoever. As already said the IDF are now reviewing their ROE as a result of the tragedy, so I guess you can say they acknowledge mistakes were made.

[Steely Dan]

Take a good look at this. Someone has taken the trouble to put the 'evIdence' presented by the press under the microscope. There are several inconsistencies with the supposed location of the deaths, the nature of the injuries and whether or not they ever were playing football. In answer to the obvious question, who do you believe the press or some bloke writing s blog, I would have to say the record of the press when it comes to honest reporting on Israel would make me choose the blog writer every time.

Who remembers the Mohammad Al Dura hoax perpetrated by a French reporter? Or the entire family wiped out during operation Cast Lead who were named by all the press as a cause célèbre with photo ops a plenty, all dropped completely off the radar when it emerged a Hamas rocket had in fact killed them. Then there's dead bodies witnessed being dragged inside a UN compound with a dead kid thrown on the top in true Pallywood style.

Little wonder the Israelis declined to interview any so called press eye witnesses.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/four-boys-on-the-gaza-beach/

Edit to add link summarizing why the incident looks fake.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/was-the-gaza-beach-incident-a-setup/

Edited June 14, 2015 by Steely Dan

[Linky]

Take a good look at this. Someone has taken the trouble to put the 'evIdence' presented by the press under the microscope. There are several inconsistencies with the supposed location of the deaths, the nature of the injuries and whether or not they ever were playing football. In answer to the obvious question, who do you believe the press or some bloke writing s blog, I would have to say the record of the press when it comes to honest reporting on Israel would make me choose the blog writer every time.

Who remembers the Mohammad Al Dura hoax perpetrated by a French reporter? Or the entire family wiped out during operation Cast Lead who were named by all the press as a cause célèbre with photo ops a plenty, all dropped completely off the radar when it emerged a Hamas rocket had in fact killed them. Then there's dead bodies witnessed being dragged inside a UN compound with a dead kid thrown on the top in true Pallywood style.

Little wonder the Israelis declined to interview any so called press eye witnesses.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/four-boys-on-the-gaza-beach/

I guess it is beyond some to just admit it is a tragedy and should not have happened.

Doesnt surprise me though.

Not one word of regret from the enablers.

[jdinasia]

Quote from link :

"Given this prevailing state of affairs, it is necessary to take into account the already complex reality and asymmetry which law-abiding states are compelled to deal with and to beware in particular of imposing additional legal and operational burdens which serve only to exacerbate the asymmetry and make it more difficult to deal with terrorist organizations."

http://www.law.idf.il/592-6584-en/Patzar.aspx

In other words : 'Just let us do the things like we are used to do...'

I have a better idea. Hamas -- just stop preparing for the next aggressive war against Israel, invest in rebuilding for a PEACEFUL society instead of sacrificing your babies in terror tunnel building, and stop training your kiddies to be cute little Jihadists.

hamas-kid-1-300x160.jpg

Then the IDF won't have to worry about asymmetrical warfare at least in Gaza.

What does this have to do with the murdered children? Abhorrent attempt to deflect yet again.

Can't take your post seriously. There was no murder. There was an active war going on and tragically these children were playing in the middle of an active combat zone and yes, horribly, got killed. It was a very bad time to be playing on the beach in that area. Of course they are not to blame but as far as blame for their deaths, you can't put this only on Israel, to be fair you also have to put it on Hamas.

As far as your dim personal attack, I was responding to the text from the IDF report posted by Mr. Thorgal ... agreeing that IDF and other civilized nation's armies have sticky complex difficulties fighting terrorist forces like Hamas. We're not uninformed morons here ... we about the extremist ideology and tactics of Hamas.

I don't know what country you're from, but I reckon if you had Jihadist terrorists launching rockets into it and digging aggressive tunnels under your soil you'd be singing a different tune.

No matter what is happening there is no excuse to murder children. Israel obviously did not know who they were but bombed them anyway in the hope they were Hamas.

Murder and war crimes all bundled into one.

Or similar as collective punishment.

There's a requirement in war that you actually know what you are shooting at.

This was clearly a war crime, and yes the unlawful killing of those children is by the very definition "murder"

[geriatrickid]

"that it took place in an area "which was utilized exclusively by militants.""

Well, there's one lie! Obviously, if there were children there, it's not exclusively utilised by militants.

Not a lie. Hamas used children for cover.

It's no secret that Hamas located its command bunkers in the basements of hospitals and stored munitions in mosques, schools and hospitals.

Why not ask the question why children were playing in a militarized area.

[Linky]

"that it took place in an area "which was utilized exclusively by militants.""

Well, there's one lie! Obviously, if there were children there, it's not exclusively utilised by militants.

Not a lie. Hamas used children for cover.

It's no secret that Hamas located its command bunkers in the basements of hospitals and stored munitions in mosques, schools and hospitals.

Why not ask the question why children were playing in a militarized area.

They werent. Just because Israel says it is doesnt mean it is. By proven facts it was not an exclusive militarized zone.

Israel had no idea who it was bombing but bombed anyway. Indiscriminate bombing.

[geriatrickid]

Clearly killing those kids on the beach was a war crime.

And on what legal basis do you make your claim? You haven't got a pot to piss in.

The politically correct comment for me to make is, oh my what a tragedy. Unfortunately, the realist in me knows that these "children" who should have not been allowed anywhere near a military compound, were encouraged to hang around because they were valuable as shields. That's how Hamas works. The politically incorrect statement for me is to say I don't care anymore. Gaza is one big welfare state created by the locals own political selfishness and laziness. Generations have made a comfortable living not working and collecting generous financial benefits from the west and wealthy gulf states. T

he Egyptians loathe and detest these people with good reason. Unlike the Israelis, they don't cower in and hide in fear. When Hamas murdered 31 Egyptians last year, the Egyptians bulldozed hundreds of Gaza dwellings and kicked ass Along with digging up many of the tunnels they also sent some dead bodies back to the Hamas leadership. The Egyptians didn't have any inquiries or worry about the western press. Maybe Israel needs to ask the Egyptians to come take over their border security. At least then no one be crying crocodile tears when the Egyptians pacified the border.

When Turkey machine guns down refugees on its border, no one demands a war crime trial. When Iran kills Afghanis including women and children who are trying to cross its border, no one demands a war crime trial. Where are the war crimes trial demands against Hizbollah, Iraq, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, and Saudi Arabia as all are currently involved in brutal armed conflict in which children are either participating or are injured.

[Linky]

Clearly killing those kids on the beach was a war crime.

And on what legal basis do you make your claim? You haven't got a pot to piss in.

The politically correct comment for me to make is, oh my what a tragedy. Unfortunately, the realist in me knows that these "children" who should have not been allowed anywhere near a military compound, were encouraged to hang around because they were valuable as shields. That's how Hamas works. The politically incorrect statement for me is to say I don't care anymore. Gaza is one big welfare state created by the locals own political selfishness and laziness. Generations have made a comfortable living not working and collecting generous financial benefits from the west and wealthy gulf states. T

he Egyptians loathe and detest these people with good reason. Unlike the Israelis, they don't cower in and hide in fear. When Hamas murdered 31 Egyptians last year, the Egyptians bulldozed hundreds of Gaza dwellings and kicked ass Along with digging up many of the tunnels they also sent some dead bodies back to the Hamas leadership. The Egyptians didn't have any inquiries or worry about the western press. Maybe Israel needs to ask the Egyptians to come take over their border security. At least then no one be crying crocodile tears when the Egyptians pacified the border.

When Turkey machine guns down refugees on its border, no one demands a war crime trial. When Iran kills Afghanis including women and children who are trying to cross its border, no one demands a war crime trial. Where are the war crimes trial demands against Hizbollah, Iraq, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, and Saudi Arabia as all are currently involved in brutal armed conflict in which children are either participating or are injured.

More deflection. But but but but.

I'll give you a hint, this thread is about Israel.

How do you know the children were encouraged to play there? Again more grasping at straws.

The facts are that Israel bombed those kids when they had no idea who it was.

Everything else you say is off topic and smoke and mirrors.

[jdinasia]

Clearly killing those kids on the beach was a war crime.

And on what legal basis do you make your claim? You haven't got a pot to piss in.

The politically correct comment for me to make is, oh my what a tragedy. Unfortunately, the realist in me knows that these "children" who should have not been allowed anywhere near a military compound, were encouraged to hang around because they were valuable as shields. That's how Hamas works. The politically incorrect statement for me is to say I don't care anymore. Gaza is one big welfare state created by the locals own political selfishness and laziness. Generations have made a comfortable living not working and collecting generous financial benefits from the west and wealthy gulf states. T

he Egyptians loathe and detest these people with good reason. Unlike the Israelis, they don't cower in and hide in fear. When Hamas murdered 31 Egyptians last year, the Egyptians bulldozed hundreds of Gaza dwellings and kicked ass Along with digging up many of the tunnels they also sent some dead bodies back to the Hamas leadership. The Egyptians didn't have any inquiries or worry about the western press. Maybe Israel needs to ask the Egyptians to come take over their border security. At least then no one be crying crocodile tears when the Egyptians pacified the border.

When Turkey machine guns down refugees on its border, no one demands a war crime trial. When Iran kills Afghanis including women and children who are trying to cross its border, no one demands a war crime trial. Where are the war crimes trial demands against Hizbollah, Iraq, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, and Saudi Arabia as all are currently involved in brutal armed conflict in which children are either participating or are injured.

More deflection. But but but but.

I'll give you a hint, this thread is about Israel.

How do you know the children were encouraged to play there? Again more grasping at straws.

The facts are that Israel bombed those kids when they had no idea who it was.

Everything else you say is off topic and smoke and mirrors.

Actually --- https://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_cha_chapter1_rule1

The first sentence. The principal of distinction

[Thorgal]

Clearly killing those kids on the beach was a war crime.

And on what legal basis do you make your claim? You haven't got a pot to piss in.

The politically correct comment for me to make is, oh my what a tragedy. Unfortunately, the realist in me knows that these "children" who should have not been allowed anywhere near a military compound, were encouraged to hang around because they were valuable as shields. That's how Hamas works. The politically incorrect statement for me is to say I don't care anymore. Gaza is one big welfare state created by the locals own political selfishness and laziness. Generations have made a comfortable living not working and collecting generous financial benefits from the west and wealthy gulf states. T

he Egyptians loathe and detest these people with good reason. Unlike the Israelis, they don't cower in and hide in fear. When Hamas murdered 31 Egyptians last year, the Egyptians bulldozed hundreds of Gaza dwellings and kicked ass Along with digging up many of the tunnels they also sent some dead bodies back to the Hamas leadership. The Egyptians didn't have any inquiries or worry about the western press. Maybe Israel needs to ask the Egyptians to come take over their border security. At least then no one be crying crocodile tears when the Egyptians pacified the border.

When Turkey machine guns down refugees on its border, no one demands a war crime trial. When Iran kills Afghanis including women and children who are trying to cross its border, no one demands a war crime trial. Where are the war crimes trial demands against Hizbollah, Iraq, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, and Saudi Arabia as all are currently involved in brutal armed conflict in which children are either participating or are injured.

More deflection. But but but but.

I'll give you a hint, this thread is about Israel.

How do you know the children were encouraged to play there? Again more grasping at straws.

The facts are that Israel bombed those kids when they had no idea who it was.

Everything else you say is off topic and smoke and mirrors.

Quote from link :

"A top Israeli spokesman conceded the Israeli military should have been able to tell that four Palestinian boys killed on a Gaza beach while playing soccer were not terrorists."

“We had visual surveillance, clearly, to an extent that we should have been able to determine who was on the beach,” he added.

Read more :

http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/202774/israel-spokesman-admits-army-should-have-spared-bo/

I call this a confession !

Edited June 14, 2015 by Thorgal

[Seastallion]

"that it took place in an area "which was utilized exclusively by militants.""

Well, there's one lie! Obviously, if there were children there, it's not exclusively utilised by militants.

Not a lie. Hamas used children for cover.

It's no secret that Hamas located its command bunkers in the basements of hospitals and stored munitions in mosques, schools and hospitals.

Why not ask the question why children were playing in a militarized area.

Definitely a lie! How can you say it isn't, unless you are alleging that the children were militants, which not even the IDF are saying?

[Seastallion]

Clearly killing those kids on the beach was a war crime.

And on what legal basis do you make your claim? You haven't got a pot to piss in.

The politically correct comment for me to make is, oh my what a tragedy. Unfortunately, the realist in me knows that these "children" who should have not been allowed anywhere near a military compound, were encouraged to hang around because they were valuable as shields. That's how Hamas works. The politically incorrect statement for me is to say I don't care anymore. Gaza is one big welfare state created by the locals own political selfishness and laziness. Generations have made a comfortable living not working and collecting generous financial benefits from the west and wealthy gulf states. T

he Egyptians loathe and detest these people with good reason. Unlike the Israelis, they don't cower in and hide in fear. When Hamas murdered 31 Egyptians last year, the Egyptians bulldozed hundreds of Gaza dwellings and kicked ass Along with digging up many of the tunnels they also sent some dead bodies back to the Hamas leadership. The Egyptians didn't have any inquiries or worry about the western press. Maybe Israel needs to ask the Egyptians to come take over their border security. At least then no one be crying crocodile tears when the Egyptians pacified the border.

When Turkey machine guns down refugees on its border, no one demands a war crime trial. When Iran kills Afghanis including women and children who are trying to cross its border, no one demands a war crime trial. Where are the war crimes trial demands against Hizbollah, Iraq, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, and Saudi Arabia as all are currently involved in brutal armed conflict in which children are either participating or are injured.

More deflection. But but but but.

I'll give you a hint, this thread is about Israel.

How do you know the children were encouraged to play there? Again more grasping at straws.

The facts are that Israel bombed those kids when they had no idea who it was.

Everything else you say is off topic and smoke and mirrors.

Quote from link :

"A top Israeli spokesman conceded the Israeli military should have been able to tell that four Palestinian boys killed on a Gaza beach while playing soccer were not terrorists."

“We had visual surveillance, clearly, to an extent that we should have been able to determine who was on the beach,” he added.

Read more :

http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/202774/israel-spokesman-admits-army-should-have-spared-bo/

I call this a confession !

It smells of either a rogue command or a rogue pilot.

And that is putting it generously that it was an individual, not the IDF in general.

[Linky]

Clearly killing those kids on the beach was a war crime.

And on what legal basis do you make your claim? You haven't got a pot to piss in.
The politically correct comment for me to make is, oh my what a tragedy. Unfortunately, the realist in me knows that these "children" who should have not been allowed anywhere near a military compound, were encouraged to hang around because they were valuable as shields. That's how Hamas works. The politically incorrect statement for me is to say I don't care anymore. Gaza is one big welfare state created by the locals own political selfishness and laziness. Generations have made a comfortable living not working and collecting generous financial benefits from the west and wealthy gulf states. T

he Egyptians loathe and detest these people with good reason. Unlike the Israelis, they don't cower in and hide in fear. When Hamas murdered 31 Egyptians last year, the Egyptians bulldozed hundreds of Gaza dwellings and kicked ass Along with digging up many of the tunnels they also sent some dead bodies back to the Hamas leadership. The Egyptians didn't have any inquiries or worry about the western press. Maybe Israel needs to ask the Egyptians to come take over their border security. At least then no one be crying crocodile tears when the Egyptians pacified the border.

When Turkey machine guns down refugees on its border, no one demands a war crime trial. When Iran kills Afghanis including women and children who are trying to cross its border, no one demands a war crime trial. Where are the war crimes trial demands against Hizbollah, Iraq, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, and Saudi Arabia as all are currently involved in brutal armed conflict in which children are either participating or are injured.

More deflection. But but but but.

I'll give you a hint, this thread is about Israel.

How do you know the children were encouraged to play there? Again more grasping at straws.

The facts are that Israel bombed those kids when they had no idea who it was.

Everything else you say is off topic and smoke and mirrors.

Quote from link :

"A top Israeli spokesman conceded the Israeli military should have been able to tell that four Palestinian boys killed on a Gaza beach while playing soccer were not terrorists."

We had visual surveillance, clearly, to an extent that we should have been able to determine who was on the beach, he added.

Read more :

http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/202774/israel-spokesman-admits-army-should-have-spared-bo/

I call this a confession !

It smells of either a rogue command or a rogue pilot.
And that is putting it generously that it was an individual, not the IDF in general.

Yes bu Israel still says nothing wrong here.

[Thorgal]

IDF Exoneration from OP is not consistent under international laws.

Quote from link :

https://www.nlg.org/sites/default/files/Attack%20First%20Kill%20thousands%20Claim%20Self-Defense%20FINAL.pdf#overlay-context=resource/letters/palestine-subcommittee-submission-icc-re-israeli-self-defense-claims

Who started the war and why, and whether national self-defense can be invoked are irrelevant to the international laws of war.

Even if the Israeli government's 'self-defense' claim were valid, it would not have been legitimate to target non combatant civilians in Gaza.

War crimes defined by the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court include: extensive destruction of property not justified by military necessity and the willful killing of civilians.

Even if the attack is justified by military necessity and even if the target is a military target, any attack that causes incidental loss of life to civilians or damage to civilian property or damage to the natural environment that would clearly be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated from the attack.

The Fourth Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 12 August 1949, which was ratified by Israel in 1951, protects civilians and civilian property in occupied territory, including by making reprisals and collective punishment illegal.

These and other acts made certain Israeli political and military leaders, and those soldiers who carried out the illegal acts, liable for violation of Articles 3, 16, 18, 20, 23, 27, 31-34, 53, 55, 56, 59, 60, 63, of the Fourth Geneva Convention, and for many of the grave breaches of that convention specified in Article 147.

These acts also made them liable for violation of Articles 10, 12, 14, 15, 21, 35, 41, 48, 51-55, 57, 59, 75, of Additional Protocol I of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Average Lt Col of the IDF should know this and shouldn't put such a crap on Facebook...

Edited June 14, 2015 by Thorgal

[Jingthing]

Yes, I think we are well aware that the Palestinians would like to take Israel to international court over alleged war crimes. Not exactly surprising. They would also like the world to boycott Israel and they would also like Israel to not exist and the Jews to go away (use your imagination on that one). Meanwhile, Hamas is rearming and building more terror tunnels with child labor (human sacrifice, where is the war crimes trial about that?) and brainwashing their children into anti-Jewish racism and Jihadist fanaticism. So what is NEW?

Edited June 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[Linky]

Yes, I think we are well aware that the Palestinians would like to take Israel to international court over alleged war crimes. Not exactly surprising. They would also like the world to boycott Israel and they would also Israel to not exist and the Jews to go away (use your imagination on that one). Meanwhile, Hamas is rearming and building more terror tunnels with child labor (human sacrifice) and brainwashing their children into Jihadist fanaticism. So what is NEW?

To be fair i think Idrael would not like the Palestinians to exist. They never say it but thats what their actions prove.

[Jingthing]

Self delete as per Scott's advice.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[Scott]

I strongly suggest that members get back on the topic. This is going very far astray.

[Steely Dan]

If there's one fault the Israeli military have it is lousy public relations. the hyperbolic outrage shown by the press, plus reports containing uncorroborated conclusions heaped on top of one another reeked of being a set up. The Israelis needed to dissect the news footage in the same painstaking and brilliantly tenacious manner that a sole U.S based weapons expert managed.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/10/10/claim-the-four-palestinian-boys-killed-on-the-beach-were-not-blown-up-by-israel-but-murdered-by-hamas/

That the press will circle the wagons on this is inevitable seeing as they are accessories to the actions of Hamas and should bear the repercussions of this. Rest assured though the truth will never see the light of day.

P.s That the first missile was fired by the Israelis was not disputed, though it is possible they were deliberately fed misinformation which set them up for a Pallywood production. The children were not the sons of poor fishermen as the press reported but the sons of a prominent Fatah member and thus eminently expendable to Hamas.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Steely Dan