American gay couple unable to leave Thailand with daughter

[MaeJoMTB]

In those thoughts, I want to only consider what's best for the child - the couple's revendications for gay rights or whatever are in my opinion totally irrelevant compared to trying to ascertain what's best for the child.

Just guessing here,

But I'm thinking a child will have a better life being brought up by at least one person who is prepared to love and spend money on them (gender and sexual orientation unspecified),

Vs

Living a lonely life in an institution full of bullies and infiltrated by pedophiles.

Orphanages are often horrible places generally run by horrible people.

Same as many old people's homes.

[Jingthing]

Kids in orphanages want to be in a family. There might be caring staff there but it's not the same as being part of a family and they can't possibly give enough attention to each child. Family as in actual dedicated parent or parents. That's it.

[wow64]

Good... at least Thailand is thinking about the child.

You really think that's what this is about?

Yes thats what its about... Why would you think otherwise?

They are looking out for the child.

I do agree with you though that its not in the child's interest to leave with this couple.

Sent from my c64

So you think the child would be better off staying with someone who didn't want a kid but rented her womb out for money, rather than two people in a stable relationship who desperately want a child?

You are making 2 assumptions there... These guys might not be in a stable relationship... How do you know they are?

How do you know the women doesn't want the kid?

These guys are exploiting this women by renting her womb... But its ok because they are paying her... Just because you pay for something doesnt make it right.

Why dont they do this through legel channels in the USA?

Sent from my c64

Edited June 26, 2015 by wow64

[Jingthing]

Grow up, dude.

Gay and straight couples (mostly straight) use surrogacy services in lower cost countries like India to save money.

This lady signed a contract.

She knew what she was doing.

She rented her womb. Her genes are not in the baby.

That's it.

Nobody made her do it.

Surrogacy might be an ethical minefield, but non-performance of this lady on her contract is less of a grey area.

I think most of us have signed work contracts, buying or selling or probably both.

When one side doesn't perform, who's in the right?

Edited June 26, 2015 by Jingthing

[MaeJoMTB]

How do you know the women doesn't want the kid?

Why would what the womb owner wants matter?

She isn't the mother, no DNA in common with the child.

It wasn't her egg (provided by someone in India), it wasn't her sperm (provided by one of the American guys) ...... she just rented her womb for 9 months.

[Jingthing]

I want to interrupt this thread as it involves a gay American.

Today is without a doubt the most historically consequential date in the gay civil rights movement in the USA.

Marriage equality in ALL 50 states.

Supreme Court rules gay couples nationwide have a right to marry

The Supreme Court on Friday delivered a historic victory for gay rights, ruling 5 to 4 that the Constitution requires that same-sex couples be allowed to marry no matter where they live and that states may no longer reserve the right only for heterosexual couples.

The court’s action marks the culmination of an unprecedented upheaval in public opinion and the nation’s jurisprudence. Advocates called it the most pressing civil rights issue of modern times, while critics said the courts had sent the country into uncharted territory by changing the traditional definition of marriage.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gay-marriage-and-other-major-rulings-at-the-supreme-court/2015/06/25/ef75a120-1b6d-11e5-bd7f-4611a60dd8e5_story.html?hpid=z1

Note -- I thought this news was major enough to post this off topic item. But I'm sure this news will be posted on WORLD NEWS before too long, so I suggest people wait for that to discuss this historic event in detail.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Jingthing

[Yunla]

Grow up, dude.

Gay and straight couples (mostly straight) use surrogacy services in lower cost countries like India to save money.

This lady signed a contract.

She knew what she was doing.

She rented her womb. Her genes are not in the baby.

That's it.

Nobody made her do it.

Surrogacy might be an ethical minefield, but non-performance of this lady on her contract is less of a grey area.

I think most of us have signed work contracts, buying or selling or probably both.

When one side doesn't perform, who's in the right?

I agree, and especially with the "ethical minefield" and "nobody made her do it" part. That is actually what concerns me with the commercial surrogacy in poorer and less-regulated nations. We know for a fact that in this region some mothers send their daughters out to work in prostitution, and so my concern is really that surrogacy in this kind of culture could see young ladies being rented out as baby-machines, against their will. This is the opposite of how I always perceived clinical IVF surrogacy, which is a clear-cut medical response situation and all parties are informed and willing. My concern with the far more rogue babies-to-order market in less developed countries, is that it might follow the existing path of young ladies having their bodies rented out against their will

Edited June 26, 2015 by Yunla

[Jingthing]

I have stated before I am no fan of surrogacy for anyone.

But it happens and this baby exists.

I think the right thing to do is for this lady to honor her agreement.

[nottocus]

Gay couples shouldn't allowed to raise kids. Ban me if u will. But hey….everyone is allowed their opinion.

[magnacarta]

I want to interrupt this thread as it involves a gay American.

Today is without a doubt the most historically consequential date in the gay civil rights movement in the USA.

Marriage equality in ALL 50 states.

Supreme Court rules gay couples nationwide have a right to marry

The Supreme Court on Friday delivered a historic victory for gay rights, ruling 5 to 4 that the Constitution requires that same-sex couples be allowed to marry no matter where they live and that states may no longer reserve the right only for heterosexual couples.

The court’s action marks the culmination of an unprecedented upheaval in public opinion and the nation’s jurisprudence. Advocates called it the most pressing civil rights issue of modern times, while critics said the courts had sent the country into uncharted territory by changing the traditional definition of marriage.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gay-marriage-and-other-major-rulings-at-the-supreme-court/2015/06/25/ef75a120-1b6d-11e5-bd7f-4611a60dd8e5_story.html?hpid=z1

Note -- I thought this news was major enough to post this off topic item. But I'm sure this news will be posted on WORLD NEWS before too long, so I suggest people wait for that to discuss this historic event in detail.

Jingthing r u gay????????????????

[Jingthing]

Newbies are cute.

[Trouble]

Let's face it, the surrogate mother is doing this for more money. She could care less about the issue of whether there is a gay or straight relationship involved. She basically, in the end, wants money. Why would she want to raise another child when she is not even the biological mother of the child? She did not do this for free to help a couple who could not conceive, she went through the pregnancy for money. Now she is trying to hold up the couple for more money. She is a scumbag from the get go and all for money. I doubt that if the couple just took off and dropped the whole issue, left her with the baby, she could possibly be a fit mother. Sounds like even her boyfriend is seeing her in a different light now.

On the issue of a gay couple having a surrogate pregnancy, I have mixed views. Many here stated that they should adopt because there are so many children needing good parents but the same could be said of a straight couple. Maybe at least one of the partners gay or straight in a surrogate pregnancy want to carry on the DNA. Nothing wrong with that. It also seems to me that more pregnancies in this world are by accident rather than planned and the percentage out of wedlock seems to be staggering these days. So in my mind the whole issue of bringing children into this world is up for discussion. The way things are with young people having babies today is a mess. If I had my way people would be "fixed" to prevent pregnancy until they made a conscience decision to have one. But that is another whole issue. A loving gay couple can indeed raise a child better than most of the accident babies by immature or braindead parents that I see all to much of. I am not going to be the judge of what two people decided to do lest I be judge for my choices in life. Does the surrogacy issue need to be strongly regulated by laws, I think so. These guys had an agreement with this Thai bitch and she reneged on the agreement. She should be made to pay all court costs if she looses, bet that would stop her real quick. As to the issue of why they come to a place like Thailand or Mexico to do this, I am sure, is all related to cost. It is the same reason we all buy goods made in China. Sorry to say but surrogate mothers are a business and none of them do it for free. That is why strict laws and regulation are needed.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Trouble

[gk10002000]

"Release the homophobes!"

Yeah, I especially like the ones that read I have no problem with the gay lifestyle, but children...

Gay parents don't raise children to be gay, you dolts.

A little more baht to sweeten the deal should clear this up.

I'm 'straight' and until coming to LOS 10 years ago was homophobic. However, being in a more tolerant country than my homeland has taught me greater understanding of different lifestyles. I am pleased to say I now have gay friends. I've never asked them about their need for children or otherwise, but if I did I would ask them the question you have raised.

This question is - 'What exactly do gay parents raise their children to be?" IMHO most children look for role-models and try to follow the path set by their parents values, opinions and influences. I may be wrong but the parents' own lifestyle would most likely be the biggest influence on them.

The parents in question are very narcissistic.

[Jingthing]

"Release the homophobes!"

Yeah, I especially like the ones that read I have no problem with the gay lifestyle, but children...

Gay parents don't raise children to be gay, you dolts.

A little more baht to sweeten the deal should clear this up.

I'm 'straight' and until coming to LOS 10 years ago was homophobic. However, being in a more tolerant country than my homeland has taught me greater understanding of different lifestyles. I am pleased to say I now have gay friends. I've never asked them about their need for children or otherwise, but if I did I would ask them the question you have raised.

This question is - 'What exactly do gay parents raise their children to be?" IMHO most children look for role-models and try to follow the path set by their parents values, opinions and influences. I may be wrong but the parents' own lifestyle would most likely be the biggest influence on them.

The parents in question are very narcissistic.

More so than any other parents who prefer their genes to be in their baby particularly a straight couple using a surrogate? If so, why?

[SoiBiker]

Gay couples shouldn't allowed to raise kids. Ban me if u will. But hey.everyone is allowed their opinion.

Why shouldn't they?

[NCFC]

First we had that Australian pedo using surrogacy to get a tailor-made baby now we've got the bloody gays trying to get at our kids. I blame it on the bloody liberal politicians who'll listen to any whacko as long as they'll vote for 'em.

World's gone raving mad.

[berybert]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

Sorry not 100% sure where you are coming from here. By the gay life style I assume you mean that people who are gay can not have kids. Does that mean you consider orphans as a sub human species that gay couples can have ?

[berybert]

First we had that Australian pedo using surrogacy to get a tailor-made baby now we've got the bloody gays trying to get at our kids. I blame it on the bloody liberal politicians who'll listen to any whacko as long as they'll vote for 'em.

World's gone raving mad.

Sorry can you explain ? This gay couple are trying to get at your kids ?

What right do you have to have all the kids for yourself.

Rather selfish are you not.

[MaeJoMTB]

Gay couples shouldn't allowed to raise kids. Ban me if u will. But hey….everyone is allowed their opinion.

Not if it's a bigoted opinion.

[cumgranosalum]

Gay couples shouldn't allowed to raise kids. Ban me if u will. But hey….everyone is allowed their opinion.

friostly where did you get that idea from??

Secondly, your post is not an opinion - an opinion is based on reasoned thought and information.

under the concept of freedom of speech you would be allowed to "say" what you said and ten sit back and listen to everyone tell you what a narrow bigoted and ill-thought out idea it was.

..........but please don't think for a moment that it is an opinion.

Edited June 27, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

if you recognise and use any of these phrases, then you probably need to you at your own abilities to have rational/critical thought....it almost certainly means you are some kind of bigot.

• Some of my best friends are.....
• I’ve got nothing against them but....
• Not that there’s anything wrong with that......
• It’s not natural, is it?
• ... so long as they don't try any funny business
• While not caring one way or another about a person's sexual choice of partner
• It shouldn’t be allowed

Edited June 27, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[Fairynuff]

God made Adam & Eve not Adam & Steve

What a highly intelligent response....well done

[cumgranosalum]

if you recognise and use any of these phrases, then you probably need to you at your own abilities to have rational/critical thought....it almost certainly means you are some kind of bigot.

• Some of my best friends are.....
• I’ve got nothing against them but....
• Not that there’s anything wrong with that......
• It’s not natural, is it?
• ... so long as they don't try any funny business
• While not caring one way or another about a person's sexual choice of partner
• It shouldn’t be allowed

...add this to the list.

"God made Adam & Eve not Adam & Steve"

[Rimmer]

A baiting post has been removed

[evadgib]

Raising children in same sex households will surely have a detrimental effect on them in decades to come.

[Fairynuff]

Raising children in same sex households will surely have a detrimental effect on them in decades to come.

Shouldn't this baiting post be removed? Or is homophobia acceptable within the forum rules? It certainly looks that way

[evadgib]

I posted it sincerely. Removing it will only confim the suspicion that hetrophobia trumps any other view.

Edited June 27, 2015 by evadgib

[cumgranosalum]

Raising children in same sex households will surely have a detrimental effect on them in decades to come.

definitely the facile post award winner, but for which post?

Why not actually look at evidence first rather than blurt out the first thing that comes into your head?

what detriment are you referring to?

[evadgib]

Any evidence that currently exists will be superceded by far more accurrate data by the middle of this century. The best we can hope until then is that such concerns prove unfounded.

Edited June 27, 2015 by evadgib

[magnacarta]

this one is for jingthing or what ever way you enjoy,iwhat about normal peoples rights, i am so fed up with minority groups rights,that weirdos are becomiming the majority,jingthing your posts are very similar to jihadists,normal people think about what they do