American gay couple unable to leave Thailand with daughter

[Beetlejuice]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

So, if straight couples are infertile.....

Perhaps you missed it when people explained human sexuality not changing the desire some people have to be parents?

Quick, let's return to the days when men married, then had kids, then left.. That closeted life surely was better!

If straight couples are infertile (no living sperm or eggs) they should adopt a child.

What is the point of making a child from which are are not the biologic parents if there are enough unwanted poor babies that need parents.

Because I believe that some couples if applying to adopt via the official agencies would not qualify or proven unsuitable for a multitude of reasons to become adoptive parents and therefore attempt to go via other channels.

Any couples of both sexes or same sex, whatever, who have all the qualifications required to make suitable adoptive parents, will always apply via the official processes and not even consider hiring the services of a surrogate from a third world country. Those who do must be considered suspect.

[SoiBiker]

Good... at least Thailand is thinking about the child.

You really think that's what this is about?

Yes thats what its about... Why would you think otherwise?

They are looking out for the child.

I do agree with you though that its not in the child's interest to leave with this couple.

Sent from my c64

So you think the child would be better off staying with someone who didn't want a kid but rented her womb out for money, rather than two people in a stable relationship who desperately want a child?

[Patsycat]

It is not her baby. She is not a blood relative to that child.

She must have signed a contract and got paid to carry the child and give birth to Carmen (lets give the wee mite a name) and now she is getting all holy moly about it?

Give me a break... money money money..... does that woman want to bring up a child that is not her own? Carmen may have blond hair and blue eyes - try telling that to your ancient granny up there in the back of beyond. Who will probably end up looking after her whilst mummy darling is making money elsewhere.

I wish them all the luck in the world to get their daughter out of that country.

It's not about who the parents are, it's about what is best for the child. I know who i would choose. A couple who are grounded and already have a child, this has nothing to do with hetero or homosexual couples. They seem good people who are probably going through hell at the moment.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Patsycat

[Patsycat]

I watched a documentary about the surrogates in India. Couples, desperate for babies have gone there.

The money the women are paid is, for them, a dream come true. They can build a house, educate their kids etc. and in the end everyone is happy. The Indian ladies are not forced into surrogacy and the faces of the parents when they see their child is just wonderful.

It's sad that Thailand has not got that niceness and privateness about it.

That wierd guy in Australia who left his little Down's boy behind has ruined it for a lot of people. And, he now wants the money....

Sorry, i get riled up about things like this. Breaks my heart that good people are treated like <deleted>.

[Patsycat]

I'll shut up now!!!

[pedro01]

I've already given the definition of "natural Parenting", that is a mother & father. Don't know what other citations/ references you require, the majority of world's population are borne through male/ female intercourse & children raised in male/ female relationship. That's been the natural process of the human race, surrogacy is a recent aspect, as is

same sex parenting, it's not natural, is it of benefit to a child to be raised I such a relationship? Don't believe any research has been undertaken, maybe, you're aware of such research??

The thrust of what I'm saying is, the issues/ arguments focus on the couple/ adoptive parents, rather think should be on child/ children....what's best for child!!

Why wouldn't it be best for the child to be raised in a loving home even if the parents were same sex?

Male and female parents provide different roles.

The relationship between a father and daughter is quite different from a mother and daughter. Same with sons - a father/son relationship is very different than a mother/son relationship. There are certain things that both sexes go through during puberty that a parent of that same sex helps with.

Then there is the obvious issue of the fact that kids are just damn cruel. So kids with same sex parents can expect to be teased and bullied about it at school.

There's some interesting experiences outlined in Federal Court here: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta-brown/adults-raised-gay-couples-speak-out-against-gay-marriage-federal-court - the upshot being that it wasn't so much the gay parents themselves but being brought up in gay communities and socializing with mostly gay friends. In the end the kids having little exposure to heterosexual couples and their kids.

The bottom line is you should not be able to buy a child. Any couple that cannot have children should be screened for suitability before being able to adopt or go through surrogacy. I think that allowing any couples, gay or otherwise to buy a child is abhorrent.

[pedro01]

More unpopular research here on the topic; http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kids-of-gay-parents-fare-worse-study-finds-but-draws-fire-from-experts/

The problem is clearly that the LGBT lobby works hard to discredit any information that is counter to their viewpoint.

So - when presented with a well carried out study, or when discussing it, those with differing opinions get branded homophobic dinosaurs.

This is how liberals work in general - you have a different opinion - then you are racist, islamophobic, homophobic - take your pick.

[pedro01]

An interesting experience & perspective here: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2012/08/6065/

[BSJ]

Other people may think there is nothing wrong with this, but I do. It's a sick society that condones gays being able to legally marry some one of the same sex.

And those same people in the article to arrange for a woman to give birth to a child....very sad indeed.

Those who claim they are gay suffer some sort of mental illness and should not be given anymore legal standing than a normal person.

[cumgranosalum]

More unpopular research here on the topic; http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kids-of-gay-parents-fare-worse-study-finds-but-draws-fire-from-experts/

The problem is clearly that the LGBT lobby works hard to discredit any information that is counter to their viewpoint.

So - when presented with a well carried out study, or when discussing it, those with differing opinions get branded homophobic dinosaurs.

This is how liberals work in general - you have a different opinion - then you are racist, islamophobic, homophobic - take your pick.

Before rolling out the stereotypes, you might spend some time reading the reports properly and the content rather than just the media headlines. So, rather than resort to ad hominem attacks, why not criticise the actual subject matter of their criticism....my feeling is that you do not have the ability to do so.

[cumgranosalum]

I watched a documentary about the surrogates in India. Couples, desperate for babies have gone there.

The money the women are paid is, for them, a dream come true. They can build a house, educate their kids etc. and in the end everyone is happy. The Indian ladies are not forced into surrogacy and the faces of the parents when they see their child is just wonderful.

It's sad that Thailand has not got that niceness and privateness about it.

That wierd guy in Australia who left his little Down's boy behind has ruined it for a lot of people. And, he now wants the money....

Sorry, i get riled up about things like this. Breaks my heart that good people are treated like <deleted>.

People's faces light up when they get a new car too..........

As for the "incubators" - it's called exploitation.

Edited June 25, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[Bluespunk]

I've already given the definition of "natural Parenting", that is a mother & father. Don't know what other citations/ references you require, the majority of world's population are borne through male/ female intercourse & children raised in male/ female relationship. That's been the natural process of the human race, surrogacy is a recent aspect, as is

same sex parenting, it's not natural, is it of benefit to a child to be raised I such a relationship? Don't believe any research has been undertaken, maybe, you're aware of such research??

The thrust of what I'm saying is, the issues/ arguments focus on the couple/ adoptive parents, rather think should be on child/ children....what's best for child!!

A loving, caring, secure and safe family environment is what is best for the child.

The sexual identity and/or gender of those providing that is irrelevant.

[cumgranosalum]

I've already given the definition of "natural Parenting", that is a mother & father. Don't know what other citations/ references you require, the majority of world's population are borne through male/ female intercourse & children raised in male/ female relationship. That's been the natural process of the human race, surrogacy is a recent aspect, as is

same sex parenting, it's not natural, is it of benefit to a child to be raised I such a relationship? Don't believe any research has been undertaken, maybe, you're aware of such research??

The thrust of what I'm saying is, the issues/ arguments focus on the couple/ adoptive parents, rather think should be on child/ children....what's best for child!!

Why wouldn't it be best for the child to be raised in a loving home even if the parents were same sex?

Male and female parents provide different roles.

The relationship between a father and daughter is quite different from a mother and daughter. Same with sons - a father/son relationship is very different than a mother/son relationship. There are certain things that both sexes go through during puberty that a parent of that same sex helps with.

Then there is the obvious issue of the fact that kids are just damn cruel. So kids with same sex parents can expect to be teased and bullied about it at school.

There's some interesting experiences outlined in Federal Court here: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta-brown/adults-raised-gay-couples-speak-out-against-gay-marriage-federal-court - the upshot being that it wasn't so much the gay parents themselves but being brought up in gay communities and socializing with mostly gay friends. In the end the kids having little exposure to heterosexual couples and their kids.

The bottom line is you should not be able to buy a child. Any couple that cannot have children should be screened for suitability before being able to adopt or go through surrogacy. I think that allowing any couples, gay or otherwise to buy a child is abhorrent.

I get the impression that you actually think that what you have written is "scientific" and do don't have an inkling that what it really amounts to is a bunch of old wive's tales.

there is a massive amount written on parenting and child parents relationships and children needs.

what you are doing is simply suggesting that your personal experience is the template world over. Sorry to disappoint but you are way off the mark. This si not how parent child relationships are assessed

you really need to read up rather than air you own baseless prejudices.

[cumgranosalum]

I've already given the definition of "natural Parenting", that is a mother & father. Don't know what other citations/ references you require, the majority of world's population are borne through male/ female intercourse & children raised in male/ female relationship. That's been the natural process of the human race, surrogacy is a recent aspect, as is

same sex parenting, it's not natural, is it of benefit to a child to be raised I such a relationship? Don't believe any research has been undertaken, maybe, you're aware of such research??

The thrust of what I'm saying is, the issues/ arguments focus on the couple/ adoptive parents, rather think should be on child/ children....what's best for child!!

Why wouldn't it be best for the child to be raised in a loving home even if the parents were same sex?

Male and female parents provide different roles.

The relationship between a father and daughter is quite different from a mother and daughter. Same with sons - a father/son relationship is very different than a mother/son relationship. There are certain things that both sexes go through during puberty that a parent of that same sex helps with.

Then there is the obvious issue of the fact that kids are just damn cruel. So kids with same sex parents can expect to be teased and bullied about it at school.

There's some interesting experiences outlined in Federal Court here: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta-brown/adults-raised-gay-couples-speak-out-against-gay-marriage-federal-court - the upshot being that it wasn't so much the gay parents themselves but being brought up in gay communities and socializing with mostly gay friends. In the end the kids having little exposure to heterosexual couples and their kids.

The bottom line is you should not be able to buy a child. Any couple that cannot have children should be screened for suitability before being able to adopt or go through surrogacy. I think that allowing any couples, gay or otherwise to buy a child is abhorrent.

I get the impression that you actually think that what you have written is "scientific" and do don't have an inkling that what it really amounts to is a bunch of old wive's tales.

there is a massive amount written on parenting and child parents relationships and children needs.

what you are doing is simply suggesting that your personal experience is the template world over. Sorry to disappoint but you are way off the mark. This si not how parent child relationships are assessed

you really need to read up rather than air you own baseless prejudices.

[cumgranosalum]

I've already given the definition of "natural Parenting", that is a mother & father. Don't know what other citations/ references you require, the majority of world's population are borne through male/ female intercourse & children raised in male/ female relationship. That's been the natural process of the human race, surrogacy is a recent aspect, as is

same sex parenting, it's not natural, is it of benefit to a child to be raised I such a relationship? Don't believe any research has been undertaken, maybe, you're aware of such research??

The thrust of what I'm saying is, the issues/ arguments focus on the couple/ adoptive parents, rather think should be on child/ children....what's best for child!!

"'ve already given the definition of "natural Parenting"," - there are some profoundly ignorant comments about raising children on this thread and this has to rank as one of the top 5.

THis comment just shows how litte people actually know about how children were /are/should be raised..... the model of mother-father is in reality a myth that has never trult existed at any time however it is a popular political construct and readily accepted under the term natural - which is in turn a word with multiple interpretations.

rather then posting total nonsense a guff, it would be much better if some people spent a while educating themselves on the issues that surround child raising.

[Ace of Pop]

[pedro01]

More unpopular research here on the topic; http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kids-of-gay-parents-fare-worse-study-finds-but-draws-fire-from-experts/

The problem is clearly that the LGBT lobby works hard to discredit any information that is counter to their viewpoint.

So - when presented with a well carried out study, or when discussing it, those with differing opinions get branded homophobic dinosaurs.

This is how liberals work in general - you have a different opinion - then you are racist, islamophobic, homophobic - take your pick.

Before rolling out the stereotypes, you might spend some time reading the reports properly and the content rather than just the media headlines. So, rather than resort to ad hominem attacks, why not criticise the actual subject matter of their criticism....my feeling is that you do not have the ability to do so.

Well - I did read the reports.

What particular points in there would you like to discuss?

Your post above is nothing but an attack on me and nothing to do with an attack on what I said.

To have an actual debate, it's best to discuss the points made, not throw about insults on the person making them.

[pedro01]

I've already given the definition of "natural Parenting", that is a mother & father. Don't know what other citations/ references you require, the majority of world's population are borne through male/ female intercourse & children raised in male/ female relationship. That's been the natural process of the human race, surrogacy is a recent aspect, as is

same sex parenting, it's not natural, is it of benefit to a child to be raised I such a relationship? Don't believe any research has been undertaken, maybe, you're aware of such research??

The thrust of what I'm saying is, the issues/ arguments focus on the couple/ adoptive parents, rather think should be on child/ children....what's best for child!!

Why wouldn't it be best for the child to be raised in a loving home even if the parents were same sex?

Male and female parents provide different roles.

The relationship between a father and daughter is quite different from a mother and daughter. Same with sons - a father/son relationship is very different than a mother/son relationship. There are certain things that both sexes go through during puberty that a parent of that same sex helps with.

Then there is the obvious issue of the fact that kids are just damn cruel. So kids with same sex parents can expect to be teased and bullied about it at school.

There's some interesting experiences outlined in Federal Court here: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta-brown/adults-raised-gay-couples-speak-out-against-gay-marriage-federal-court - the upshot being that it wasn't so much the gay parents themselves but being brought up in gay communities and socializing with mostly gay friends. In the end the kids having little exposure to heterosexual couples and their kids.

The bottom line is you should not be able to buy a child. Any couple that cannot have children should be screened for suitability before being able to adopt or go through surrogacy. I think that allowing any couples, gay or otherwise to buy a child is abhorrent.

I get the impression that you actually think that what you have written is "scientific" and do don't have an inkling that what it really amounts to is a bunch of old wive's tales.

there is a massive amount written on parenting and child parents relationships and children needs.

what you are doing is simply suggesting that your personal experience is the template world over. Sorry to disappoint but you are way off the mark. This si not how parent child relationships are assessed

you really need to read up rather than air you own baseless prejudices.

Once again, really an attack on the points raised without any counter argument.

Bring on the research BUT make sure you also check who funded the report because that is the first thing I will be looking at.

Parenting in itself is not a science. So of course, we need to take into account the experience of those raised by gay parents - both good and bad.

But the fact that male and female parents provide different roles in childs upbringing is not an "old wive's tale". It IS Science - look here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081103192411.htm

Or look in nature - at the roles played out by male and female lions.

Scientists believe that "specialization" - the male and female parents being genetically predisposed to different roles is a more efficient model that both fulfilling the same role.

I look forward to more replies from you skirting the points made and calling me an idiot.

Edited June 25, 2015 by pedro01

[nottocus]

Hopefully the kid won't catch AIDs

[kerrysum]

Wow, really do not know what to say, except, maybe, we have gone from mail-order brides, to mail-order babies.... There is really something amiss here.

Personally, I think it is really sad...... Just my humble opinion.....

[tominbkk]

I'm astounded at the rampant homophobia found in this topic. But, thinking about how many self loathing and generally hateful people there are here at TV it shouldn't surprise me.

[Franky Bear]

Although I'm amused by the homophobia on this thread, it was inevitable that it would emerge, it does actually cloud the issue somewhat. -

There are 2 main things going on here, one is people's prejudices about gay couples, but the other is the matter of surrogacy and all the issues surrounding that.

the former i find sad but inevitable and a reflection on the ignorance of many people who have decided to post on an issue that is actually tangential to the OP. The Latter I find somewhat distasteful.

firstly I see no reason why same sex couples should;'t have children one way or another - regardless of one's sexual orientation the urge to have children remains and can be very strong.

The problem I have is that gay OR straight, people get overwhelmed by the need for children and begin to see it as a right.....I don't agree. ....and on the top of the list I have deep reservations about surrogacy as a way to parenthood. I'm not saying it should e illegal or banned - the usual redneck response to something they don't understand -burt I think all partied involved should think long and hard about the processes involved here. So often the whole thing smacks of exploitation - the surrogate mothers are usually very poor and the prospective parents are usually wealthy middle class from another country - surely anyone taking a step back from this can see there is a multitude of questionable actions and motives going on here?

There are millions of children all over the world who need care - as humans and mammals we are genetically programmed to adopt, so the need to be genetically connected, whilst sometimes a good idea, doesn't have to be the all engulfing prerequisite, does it?

For a successful surrogacy the people need to be fully informed and capable of understanding all aspects of the process - I suspect the situation in the OP is pretty much as I outlined above - poorer woman, rich parents, but it has also brought out the problems of intercultural surrogacy that can arise most likely from the woman's poor education she is relying on a one-sided view of gay relationships and the benefit of a true full education has probably been denied her - so this sorry situation has arisen.

the same applies to the prospective couple they clearly were not in possession of all the facts,and pitfalls that they might expect.....and in the middle of it all is another person - a child - just waiting to start a life.

And I'm amused by the continued use of the derogatory term homophobia to denigrate some peoples opinions.

A phobia is defined as an irrational fear of something. Think arachnophobia and spiders.

It seems that some in the gay community can't handle the fact that some people simply do not like homosexuals, so they choose to use words that allude to some form of mental illness to describe their detractors.

If you want to promote or defend a certain thing, please do so without using derogatory terms.....people might actually listen then.

Worst post ever on here

[Franky Bear]

I'm astounded at the rampant homophobia found in this topic. But, thinking about how many self loathing and generally hateful people there are here at TV it shouldn't surprise me.

Agreed

[Keesters]

I totally disagree with same sex couples bringing up children. The child is reared in an unusual environment whatever the gays might like to make out.

Two parents of any sex is better than only only one parent in my opinion. Lose that one and what do you have.........

[jaidam]

Hopefully the kid won't catch AIDs

Where did it say the "parents" had Aids? Lots of homosexuals have Aids but not all of them, at least in their initial stages of the lifestyle. Also no conclusive studies I have seen showing gay parents to sexually abuse their adopted kids as normal, although again it probably does happen an awful lot.

[rijit]

Hopefully the kid won't catch AIDs

Classs , THAT has to go down as the most stupid ignorant post on T V I`ve ever had the misfortuneto read

rijit

[rijit]

Hopefully the kid won't catch AIDs

I was going to report it but on second thoughts i wont. it and you deserves to be seen for exactly what both are ignorant and nasty. And I've no doubt you'll come on here with so benine double ignorant comment justifying it.

rijit

[rijit]

Hopefully the kid won't catch AIDs

I have seen showing gay parents to sexually abuse their adopted kids as normal, although again it probably does happen an awful lot.

Really and how does your nasty little. mind work that one out? please enlighten us ?

rijit

Edited June 26, 2015 by rijit

[rijit]

Unfrigging believable !!!

rijit

[Patsycat]

Blinkered since birth, comes to mind,

A bit like those guys in the townships in South Africa that think raping a baby will rid them of Aids... or keep them clean from it.

I have seen the documentaries.

All these two people want is to take their child home. Simples.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Patsycat