fxe1200 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world. You can only adopt a child in Thailand, if you are married the hetero way. I have never heard about the possibility of a gay couple adopting a child in Thailand. Men alone cannot adopt a child here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orac Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 If the child is being kept from the mother without a court order and they are not married is this not kidnapping under Thai law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godden Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 so far it's all me me me, what about the baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairynuff Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 What a bunch of nasty old homophobes there are in this forum. Perhaps the moderators should be removing the bigoted posts. But...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trentham Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I totally disagree with same sex couples bringing up children. The child is reared in an unusual environment whatever the gays might like to make out. Oh you holier than thou sexist. My father was STRAIGHT and I watched him beat and rape my mother. I saw him throw my 2 year old brother against a wardrobe. Then he deserted us and left us penniless. And you think straights can raise kids better than gays. Think again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycallahan Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 One of those matters where the minority poker hand precedence chart needs to be referenced. White middle class homosexual vs Brown developing world non-Christian faith. Sounds close to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggers Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Understand gay couples may want to have children, however, need to consider impact on child growing up in a "different" relationship to that of natural mother & father parenting. It seems a somewhat selfish aspiration of gays to want to rear a child of a surrogate arrangement in an unnatural coupling. Plus, surrogacy laws world-wide should be enacted immediately to prevent these instances of unwitting women being taken advantage of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joepattaya1961 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world. Living a gay lifestyle is no choice I guess, but the desire to have kids is a choice. Unfortunately, according to written and unwritten rules in our narrow-sighted community it's not possible to "obtain" kids in the well-known biological way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bignose Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The whole surrogate thing should be banned worldwide with hefty penalties for violators! There are more than enough unfortunate children waiting in orphanages all over the world to get the chance of finding loving foster parents. Take one of them as your child!!! At some point kids want to know their true biological parents, so what they gonna tell those surrogate kids? Something like this? "It was a business you know - your biological mom carried you out just to make some extra cash but did not have any bond with you, letting alone love you? By the way, we have no idea who she was, where she lives and are also not allowed to check up on that... Oh, before I forgot - I am not your real dad, neither is Joe, your other dad... Your bio dad was a anonymous donor, I'm sorry!" Great for the kid, aye? What a twisted, sick world we live in, where family means nothing anymore, the typical mom, dad, kid family is made "so last season" by all those gender mainstream idiots and the media who finds it "all so hot right now"... I am sick and tired of all this! Also, gays have chosen a bond with a person of the same gender, so biologically their partnership will not "generate" children, so deal with it! I was fortunate enough to grow up with a loving mom and a loving dad, as a true, real family and daily thank the lord on my knees for just that. I feel for all the unfortunate foster kids who are unwanted, overlooked by wannabe foster parents who search for a cute cuddly one, while the 6, 7year olds and above will realize sooner or later that the dream of having a mom and a dad will remain a pipe dream for the rest of their lifes... I feel for all the unfortunate surrogate children who will at some point in their lifes wake up to the fact that their parents are fake ones and the real ones just "made" them... I feel for all the unfortunate children who will be mobbed and laughed at at school because they have two dads or two moms... However, I am not naive enough to not understand that many of the standard families have their own problems with abusive dads, drunk parents, a hard core business mom who has no time or empathy to invest, etc. thus I feel for them two and understand also that a child of a domestic violence family might be better off with a gay couple who truly loves that kid. But then at least it would be an adopted foster child, but not a "surrogate lab creation". I agree with just about everything you have said, why people would want to travel to a foreign country to adopt when there are so many parent-less kids in their own country is beyond me. Could it be because this couple do not qualify to be adoptive parents in their own country? Like most people I have seen where western bureaucracies can be overbearing, unyielding and draconian, but sometimes that is for a reason. Just because you have money does that allow you to ignore the requirements of the country where you live and wish to raise this family, and to travel to socially challenged countries and "buy a life" at you're whim? Where are the checks and balances for activities like this, or do we just have to assume that as you are financially secure you will be a good parent? I believe that suitably qualified and scrutinized gay and lesbian couples can and will make good parents, I would like to think that western societies are now civilized enough for it to be socially acceptable and not a reason for persecution or ridicule as you suggest. I appreciate kids at school can be incredibly cruel but even they seem to be more socially aware of subjects like these, I would like to think so anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinot Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) "Release the homophobes!" Yeah, I especially like the ones that read I have no problem with the gay lifestyle, but children... Gay parents don't raise children to be gay, you dolts. A little more baht to sweeten the deal should clear this up. Edited June 25, 2015 by Pinot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Can anyone spot something terribly wrong in this sentence? or is it just me. "A Florida man claims he and his husband ...." The damn world has gone quite mad. I think you're the one who's rather out of touch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trianglechoke Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 This is good stuff ' There are more than enough unfortunate children waiting in orphanages all over the world to get the chance of finding loving foster parents. Take one of them as your child!!! At some point kids want to know their true biological parents, so what they gonna tell those surrogate kids? Something like this? "It was a business you know - your biological mom carried you out just to make some extra cash but did not have any bond with you, letting alone love you? By the way, we have no idea who she was, where she lives and are also not allowed to check up on that... Oh, before I forgot - I am not your real dad, neither is Joe, your other dad... Your bio dad was a anonymous donor, I'm sorry!" This is important and the response seems to be ' don't worry, it'll be ok'..... so blasé with predicting a kids feelings in the future. Gays need to accept, 1) their union doesn't allow for the production of natural offspring 2) When it comes to kid raising, we don't know if there any negative outcomes to two blokes or two girls raising a kid, maybe being romantic in front of the kid, bullying at schools etc. 3)Purchasing children IS NOT THE <deleted> CORRECT ANSWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LannaGuy Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 against surrogacy and for adoption and this 'buying humans' disgusts me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceruhe Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Ahhh, alot of these replies are worthty of the white trash badge, no worries, the they never run out of stock, so there are plenty more to be had. Coming to the issue at hand...nowadays, everything involving a baby and a (unknown) woman just screams for caution to proceed. And since I'm not pro life in the first place...adopt them poor bastards that got left behind by heterosexual individuals due to whatever circumstances. For all I care, if homosexuals want to raise a kid, they want a kid and don't just "create one by accident" due to the lack of natural reproduction. As far as how raising the thing is concerned...none of your business...? There are enough black sheep coming from heterosexual couples, regardless of upbringing. As many of my generation growing up with only 1 parent due to the massive increase in divorce rates, I can't even begin to understand where a gay couple raising a child would be anywhere near a problem. 2 are better than 1, regardless of whichever combination (unlike you have 2 extreme feminists or mgtows I guess....also excluding domestic violence and that stuff for obvious reasons). Although I sort of got raised "half and half" throughout my childhood, I haven't taken any damage from that, my opinion on the world changed with me being capable to use my own brain to think, which I'm glad I accomplished. Which lets me inform and decide for myself that I call BS on "it's not gods will" and all that other homophopic brainfarts coming from all those narrow minded sheeps, you know...because a gay couple "teaches" their children to be gay too...morons. Dare to say a generation raised by gays will help this world more, due to not getting infected with certain socially indoctrinated virtues and having an open mind, which inevitable will make them unhappy to a certain degree having to deal with millions of idiot sheeps around them. With the world changing at the rate it currently is, for better or worse, socially accepting "different" is on the rise, though I highly doubt I will still see the times when all that racial and gender hate is a thing of the past. Again, as not being pro life, I already don't care for that surrogacy stuff, nevermind the lopsided court decisions in favor of the mother by default. However, pro logic and reason or rather <deleted> to others, I am for enforcing a contract between such an agreement. As long as the details have been worked out, I don't see where the scam parts etc fit in, it's rather clear cut to me, but again...I work on logic and reason, not emotions and socially twisted one sided moral values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2008bangkok Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Unfortunately I don't thing they stand a chance, Thai law says that unless they married at time them father has on rights also suragacy is meant to be illegal in thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory1848 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I totally disagree with same sex couples bringing up children. The child is reared in an unusual environment whatever the gays might like to make out. I couldn't disagree with you more. "Unusual" in the sense in which you mean it is in the eye of the beholder, and your viewpoint has rapidly become the minority opinion, at least in North America and most of Europe. Any child is much better off in a loving household with same-sex parents than in a tension-filled household with a forever squabbling heterosexual couple. From a child's perspective, a home environment is "unusual" and harmful if it is unstable, brittle, violent -- and all human couples, whether heterosexual, gay, or lesbian, are equally capable of creating such an environment, or of creating the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Nepal has been a good place for gay couples doing the surrogate thing. Very popular with Israeli gays. Not sure now though with the earthquake. Thailand is backing off from allowing any foreign surrogacy ... that's their right of course. Surrogacy is always a moral issue, regardless of the situation with the adopting parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empireboy Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I totally disagree with same sex couples bringing up children. The child is reared in an unusual environment whatever the gays might like to make out. But single dad's are ok with you I presume? If "yes" what is the real issue with adding another significant male figure? Especially IF the child is in truly loving care? The logic seems to be escaping me but I'm open to to if it exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybangkok Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I find all of this fascinating in as much as it shows just how big a generational gap there is with some of the posters here. And I say generational as even though I am 47 year old, much of my generation and the younger generation are not thinking your outdated, badly researched and frankly absurd suppositions. You may think you are not homophobic with your "you mind your business and as long as it doesn't effect me, I'll mind my business" attitude but when it actually comes down to it, you don't see homosexual men (or women) as the same as you. When every single bit of evidence points to the fact that gay people are born gay with very little choice on the matter (as one OP observed, why put yourself through all of that abuse and victimization if you could choose to be straight) and that they are more than capable of bringing up a child in a loving and nurturing environment (Modern Family anyone?) and are often better than it than many heterosexual couples, you still feel that the 'traditional' home is the only thing that can work. Would this be the traditional home that produces all the orphans you are discussing here? Is this the traditional home that tops the list of child abuse and child negligence? Is this the traditional home with divorce rates of some 50% quoted for the likes of the US? I also take offence to the "you chose to be gay so that means you can't have kids" or "why can't you take an orphan instead of going surrogate?" You would never pose these frankly absurd questions to a heterosexual couple yet it seems perfectly fine to you to do so with gay couples. All people have choice and if their preference is surrogacy then who are you to say otherwise? Your opinions are outdated, your standpoint misguided and the facts you present are neither logical nor particularly well researched. The only saving grace is like the dinosaurs you so aptly mimic, hopefully you and your homophobia will soon be extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunla Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I totally disagree with same sex couples bringing up children. The child is reared in an unusual environment whatever the gays might like to make out. But if they are allowed to go through a screening process to adopt a child, that really does turn your theory on its head. Because then you would have to weigh the "unusual environment" of living around screened gay people, with the actual real environment that children in the less classy children's homes endure every day. I don't speak for kids in state-homes today, as my experiences were in the 1970s~80s. But I do research this issue, and many improvements have been made since those days, and there are some extremely good children's homes which are modern and actually very nice. But there are still today many children's homes that are extremely nasty places to grow up in. In my children's home, age 4 to 13, I was never adopted and I actually *escaped* by jumping off the roof one night, to spend my next few years sleeping rough on the streets. What people don't realise is that children's homes are designed the same as prisons in that they are expected to prevent children escaping, for the kids' own safety. Add to that the proven social fact that unregistered paedophiles do seek employment in these places, along with domestic tyrants etc. Where I was raised, sixty children shared the same bathwater, the water was cold, dirty brown with all kinds of stuff in it. The building was freezing cold all year round. We were malnourished and at times we were starved for days. We got beaten with sticks, belts and even chains. Many of us were also sexually assaulted routinely. I read a lot about this, and I do recognise that this culture has changed for the better in some locations since the 70s/80s, and many children's homes are now regulated and checked properly, but there really are many poorer areas where children's homes are still just prisons for kids, with all the violence and horror that prison implies. So in the case of gay couples adopting, what we should do is balance the quite abstract harm that "being raised around gay people" might cause in a child's development, versus the actual harm that children suffer in some of the worst state-run children's homes. If a nice gay couple adopts a child from a poor-quality children's home, they are saving that child from years of suffering and possible abuse, and giving the child a chance to be happy and normal in adult life. I also agree with other posters in that I hope the babies-to-order market is shutdown worldwide, zero-tolerance. And that screened adoption is available for all suitable caring adults, regardless of their LGBT status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) There are multiple levels of issues here. At the top should surrogacy be allowed for anyone. Then, should it be allowed for foreigners for them to export the babies. Then, how are the women treated and compensated ... is it fair and adequate or exploitative? Then, what about the adopting parents. So this isn't only about the gay marriage and gay parenting issue unless you want to make it ONLY about that. Edited June 25, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Stranger Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Well, well, well, what happened to tolerant Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Well, well, well, what happened to tolerant Thailand. Nothing happened. It was never as tolerant as most westerns think it is. So many are fooled by the SUPERFICIAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimlove Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Nothing a big Brown envelope can´t fix ... like everything else here .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 This is so wrong. A surrogate who is not the biological mother (smell fishy already) agrees to put someone name on a birth certificate and a man can walk away with a baby, just like that ??? What next ? A "baby" section in Ali Express ??? So the mother who is not the mother and one of the fathers is not the father. It is disturbing that a baby is product that you tell how to mix up, select a good egg, some good sperm and what surrogate is healthy and has good blood values. I think that kind of thing should be complete banned and the only allowed thing is when at a normal couple where she has eggs and he has sperm she has some medical conditions so she can't carry the baby. So it is really genetically theirs. I think a law was passed here in February outlawing commercial surrogacy. Suspect this surrogate was already "pregnant"? Assume you wouldn't advocate forcing an abortion on the surrogate? So the Kingdom will have to deal with these WIP. you rise a very interesting aspect. If it is banned and people still do it....what you can do? You can jail the mother afterwards but else with the kid there aren't many options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildragon Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I love how some wannabe child pyscology experts on here deem gay parents wrong and 'unnatural'. Some heterosexual couples are terrible At parenting and raising children. I know a some gay people that would be wonderful parents. For surrogacy or adoption of course gay couples like any other should be screened to see if they are fit to parent. Luckily some of the old inherent attitudes on here of 'they're gay, there's something wrong with them' are dying out. Good, you are holding humanity back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I find all of this fascinating in as much as it shows just how big a generational gap there is with some of the posters here. And I say generational as even though I am 47 year old, much of my generation and the younger generation are not thinking your outdated, badly researched and frankly absurd suppositions. You may think you are not homophobic with your "you mind your business and as long as it doesn't effect me, I'll mind my business" attitude but when it actually comes down to it, you don't see homosexual men (or women) as the same as you. When every single bit of evidence points to the fact that gay people are born gay with very little choice on the matter (as one OP observed, why put yourself through all of that abuse and victimization if you could choose to be straight) and that they are more than capable of bringing up a child in a loving and nurturing environment (Modern Family anyone?) and are often better than it than many heterosexual couples, you still feel that the 'traditional' home is the only thing that can work. Would this be the traditional home that produces all the orphans you are discussing here? Is this the traditional home that tops the list of child abuse and child negligence? Is this the traditional home with divorce rates of some 50% quoted for the likes of the US? I also take offence to the "you chose to be gay so that means you can't have kids" or "why can't you take an orphan instead of going surrogate?" You would never pose these frankly absurd questions to a heterosexual couple yet it seems perfectly fine to you to do so with gay couples. All people have choice and if their preference is surrogacy then who are you to say otherwise? Your opinions are outdated, your standpoint misguided and the facts you present are neither logical nor particularly well researched. The only saving grace is like the dinosaurs you so aptly mimic, hopefully you and your homophobia will soon be extinct. yes that is well proofed in discussions: if you read something you don't like call the other homophobic, racist or communist. That always works if there is no other good argument. Surrogate: It should be banned the same for rich straight couples where she just don't want to walk around with a big belly. Gay couples the child is only the child of one of them, not their child. Mixing a child out of the brochure of eggs and sperm and find someone with good blood values to carry it, no matter if gay or straight couple or single person seems complete wrong to me. A child isn't a product you order out of the catalog in a third world country. As well the issue that rich can do what they want while the poor must make their babies themself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradavarius37 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 All the TV homophobes in one place - congrats Mods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangebrew Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The term reared being used on this subject is way to creepy for my tastes. Think raised would sound better. But on another note nothing that 200,000 baht couldn't solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlest Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) i dont think biology is important, i have 6 Thai daughters all of which love me unconditionally despite me being white and them dark, and no biology as they are adopted.Its a love that is deeper and as real as any biological family. they still have their real mum and dads too, i am just an extension of that, and its one big happy family.Having said that, gay families adopting is still okay in my book, its better thn not having any family at all. But for suragate mothers, i just feel thats a step too far, the biological strains a woman goes through for 9 months, just to give it away, and the business aspects., It just makes it feel so shallow to me., Edited June 25, 2015 by djlest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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