American gay couple unable to leave Thailand with daughter

[NoshowJones]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

Homosexual couples should never be allowed to adopt children, whether they are "married" or not for very obvious reasons.

They may be the nicest people on earth but the children have to be considered first. I don't think I need to explain.

[NoshowJones]

I reckon it must be strange for the child if they are with a gay couple. I would think it would really have a psychological effect on them that wwould stay with them for life

perhaps you'd care to outline those effects?

You mean you don't know??

[NoshowJones]

so far it's all me me me, what about the baby!

Yes, poor baby, how is it going to know which one to call mum and which one to call dad?

As the child is growing up and sees their little pals with normal mums and dads, what is it going

to do to their minds?

[ronthai]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

As a gay man myself, I 100% agree with this.

[Lee4Life]

Sorry boys, Hillary isn't there to bail you out in 3rd world countries, nor do they all adhere to distorted political correctness. Stay in San Fran!

Boy are you behind the times! They moved to Seattle years ago.

[Basil B]

This is so wrong. A surrogate who is not the biological mother (smell fishy already) agrees to put someone name on a birth certificate and a man can walk away with a baby, just like that ???

What next ? A "baby" section in Ali Express ???

With a "CE" tattoo...

[NoshowJones]

All the TV homophobes in one place - congrats Mods!

This is a public forum and people are entitled to their opinions, as long as they are not nasty about it, and I have

not seen a nasty comment on this topic yet

If you do not like or agree with a posters comment, then just move on Simple.

[cumgranosalum]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

Homosexual couples should never be allowed to adopt children, whether they are "married" or not for very obvious reasons.

They may be the nicest people on earth but the children have to be considered first. I don't think I need to explain.

"I don't think I need to explain."

Oh but you do...you really do!

It seems to me that that fact you an that merely shows how little you have thought about the subject - so little that you can't even articulate your "explanation". There have been some very convincing arguments put forward to the contrary, so I think you need to do the same if you are to be taken seriously.

Edited June 25, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[johnnybangkok]

I find all of this fascinating in as much as it shows just how big a generational gap there is with some of the posters here. And I say generational as even though I am 47 year old, much of my generation and the younger generation are not thinking your outdated, badly researched and frankly absurd suppositions.

You may think you are not homophobic with your "you mind your business and as long as it doesn't effect me, I'll mind my business" attitude but when it actually comes down to it, you don't see homosexual men (or women) as the same as you. When every single bit of evidence points to the fact that gay people are born gay with very little choice on the matter (as one OP observed, why put yourself through all of that abuse and victimization if you could choose to be straight) and that they are more than capable of bringing up a child in a loving and nurturing environment (Modern Family anyone?) and are often better than it than many heterosexual couples, you still feel that the 'traditional' home is the only thing that can work. Would this be the traditional home that produces all the orphans you are discussing here? Is this the traditional home that tops the list of child abuse and child negligence? Is this the traditional home with divorce rates of some 50% quoted for the likes of the US?

I also take offence to the "you chose to be gay so that means you can't have kids" or "why can't you take an orphan instead of going surrogate?" You would never pose these frankly absurd questions to a heterosexual couple yet it seems perfectly fine to you to do so with gay couples. All people have choice and if their preference is surrogacy then who are you to say otherwise?

Your opinions are outdated, your standpoint misguided and the facts you present are neither logical nor particularly well researched. The only saving grace is like the dinosaurs you so aptly mimic, hopefully you and your homophobia will soon be extinct.

yes that is well proofed in discussions: if you read something you don't like call the other homophobic, racist or communist. That always works if there is no other good argument.

Surrogate: It should be banned the same for rich straight couples where she just don't want to walk around with a big belly.

Gay couples the child is only the child of one of them, not their child. Mixing a child out of the brochure of eggs and sperm and find someone with good blood values to carry it, no matter if gay or straight couple or single person seems complete wrong to me. A child isn't a product you order out of the catalog in a third world country.

As well the issue that rich can do what they want while the poor must make their babies themself.

Yet another argument with gaping holes in it so lets clear up a few points:

1. If you don't like gays or their lifestyle choice you are definitely homophobic; if you don't like black/Asian/Hispanic etc, you are racist, if you don't want capitalism and think China is doing a great job you are communists (not sure how this crept in, but you started it) - As my dear mother always said, "if the cap fits, then wear it!"

2. People want their own babies and often the eggs/sperm are fine but the woman has what is called an inhospitable womb. Hence surrogates. In the vast majority of cases one or either of the partners have contributed to the pregnancy and the surrogate is simply more able to bring the child to full term.

3. What about adopted kids where NEITHER of the parents are their true biological one? Do we ban these as well or would you just like to wallow in your own shallow hypocrisy?

The point of all of this is that no one should have an issue with a couple of any gender that want to bring up a child in a caring, loving and nurturing environment. If you really want a much more prevalent issue to make a stand on then try then start with the heterosexual lot who neglect, abuse and generally <deleted> up their kids with their racist/homophobic/3rd world views. I can assure you there is many, many more of them.

[NoshowJones]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

Homosexual couples should never be allowed to adopt children, whether they are "married" or not for very obvious reasons.

They may be the nicest people on earth but the children have to be considered first. I don't think I need to explain.

"I don't think I need to explain."

Oh but you do...you really do!

It seems to me that that fact you an that merely shows how little you have thought about the subject - so little that you can't even articulate your "explanation". There have been some very convincing arguments put forward to the contrary, so I think you need to do the same if you are to be take seriously.

The subject does not take much to think about, just think about the poor children involved, they must come first before what either me or you think.

As another poster has said, it is just "me,me,me".

[Donutz]

Gay couple.... baby... I don't need to read the rest, if this is a debate then the world's gone to shayte... wake me up when I wake up...

Quite right, there is nothing to debate is there? A couple wants to take their child home. sounds perfectly okay to me if the parents are loving, caring people who take good care of their children.

In this case it was not an adopted child but a child with a surrogate mother. The only debate I see is if people should able to do this sort of thing while their are so many orphans and othet children that can be adopted and need a foster home. The debating being that although natural to wish to have children of your own by any means is selfish if so many kids require a new home and parents.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

The poor child, he/she will loose whichever way it goes. If the child stay here its doomed into poverty. If the child becomes the child of a gay couple, the child will have to survive all the negatives in school of having same sex parents. Its very interesting that there is no long term study ever done on the effects of children growing up in a same sex home. So scientificaly I cant say it will be negative and neither can same sex couples say it will be positive or neutral. But from living live I know what abuse these children will endure at school. Unfortunately governments only love science when it suites them, in this case I believe that governments have approved child adoption by same sex partners without doing the research needed to determine the long term effects on children. Hereby I am not saying the same sex parents will be at fault, but I believe society views could harm these children. The need of the adults to have children can never override the well being of the child.

[Nobb]

Sound like you and your partner are doing a great job already as parents. But sounds like some one told the mother she could get more money if she protested. Thailand is full of people who do not respect a contract but only driven by greed!

[Time Traveller]

The Thai woman agrees to sell her own baby and then complains about the morals of the American father? F 'ing Awesome.............this has got to be the story of the year !

[johnnybangkok]

The poor child, he/she will loose whichever way it goes. If the child stay here its doomed into poverty. If the child becomes the child of a gay couple, the child will have to survive all the negatives in school of having same sex parents. Its very interesting that there is no long term study ever done on the effects of children growing up in a same sex home. So scientificaly I cant say it will be negative and neither can same sex couples say it will be positive or neutral. But from living live I know what abuse these children will endure at school. Unfortunately governments only love science when it suites them, in this case I believe that governments have approved child adoption by same sex partners without doing the research needed to determine the long term effects on children. Hereby I am not saying the same sex parents will be at fault, but I believe society views could harm these children. The need of the adults to have children can never override the well being of the child.

With respect, can't you see that it's old fashioned and outdated attitudes like yours that are leading 'societies views".? I'm sure you are well intentioned and truly believe that you have the child's welfare at heart but the chain of discrimination has to be broken at some stage so rather than perpetuate the negative, why don't you try encouraging the positives?

It wasn't so long ago that it was firmly believed that black and white children shouldn't mix because it 'wasn't fair on the kids'. Thankfully time has shown that not to be the case but it took some brave people to stand up to 'the norm' and say that attitudes had to change. I see the debate about gay marriage and gay people having children as being equal to the Civil Rights movement predominately in the US but also in Europe and that in 20 years no one will think twice about LGBT community having equal rights to marriage, adoption etc that the rest of us have enjoyed all of our lives. And by the way, children are a lot more resilient (and open minded) than you give them credit for and will readily accept a 'different' parental set up IF they are not unduly influenced by backward thinking parents.

[h90]

I find all of this fascinating in as much as it shows just how big a generational gap there is with some of the posters here. And I say generational as even though I am 47 year old, much of my generation and the younger generation are not thinking your outdated, badly researched and frankly absurd suppositions.

You may think you are not homophobic with your "you mind your business and as long as it doesn't effect me, I'll mind my business" attitude but when it actually comes down to it, you don't see homosexual men (or women) as the same as you. When every single bit of evidence points to the fact that gay people are born gay with very little choice on the matter (as one OP observed, why put yourself through all of that abuse and victimization if you could choose to be straight) and that they are more than capable of bringing up a child in a loving and nurturing environment (Modern Family anyone?) and are often better than it than many heterosexual couples, you still feel that the 'traditional' home is the only thing that can work. Would this be the traditional home that produces all the orphans you are discussing here? Is this the traditional home that tops the list of child abuse and child negligence? Is this the traditional home with divorce rates of some 50% quoted for the likes of the US?

I also take offence to the "you chose to be gay so that means you can't have kids" or "why can't you take an orphan instead of going surrogate?" You would never pose these frankly absurd questions to a heterosexual couple yet it seems perfectly fine to you to do so with gay couples. All people have choice and if their preference is surrogacy then who are you to say otherwise?

Your opinions are outdated, your standpoint misguided and the facts you present are neither logical nor particularly well researched. The only saving grace is like the dinosaurs you so aptly mimic, hopefully you and your homophobia will soon be extinct.

yes that is well proofed in discussions: if you read something you don't like call the other homophobic, racist or communist. That always works if there is no other good argument.

Surrogate: It should be banned the same for rich straight couples where she just don't want to walk around with a big belly.

Gay couples the child is only the child of one of them, not their child. Mixing a child out of the brochure of eggs and sperm and find someone with good blood values to carry it, no matter if gay or straight couple or single person seems complete wrong to me. A child isn't a product you order out of the catalog in a third world country.

As well the issue that rich can do what they want while the poor must make their babies themself.

Yet another argument with gaping holes in it so lets clear up a few points:

1. If you don't like gays or their lifestyle choice you are definitely homophobic; if you don't like black/Asian/Hispanic etc, you are racist, if you don't want capitalism and think China is doing a great job you are communists (not sure how this crept in, but you started it) - As my dear mother always said, "if the cap fits, then wear it!"

2. People want their own babies and often the eggs/sperm are fine but the woman has what is called an inhospitable womb. Hence surrogates. In the vast majority of cases one or either of the partners have contributed to the pregnancy and the surrogate is simply more able to bring the child to full term.

3. What about adopted kids where NEITHER of the parents are their true biological one? Do we ban these as well or would you just like to wallow in your own shallow hypocrisy?

The point of all of this is that no one should have an issue with a couple of any gender that want to bring up a child in a caring, loving and nurturing environment. If you really want a much more prevalent issue to make a stand on then try then start with the heterosexual lot who neglect, abuse and generally <deleted> up their kids with their racist/homophobic/3rd world views. I can assure you there is many, many more of them.

you don't mean that serious or?

1. Very common to suppress any discussion by calling other people what they aren't.

2. Yes there are medical reasons....That is a other topic....here no one has an inhospitable womb.

3. So you mean it is right to breed kids, of course with selected enhanced genetics, like you do with German Shepherds so we have something nice to adopt and keep these ordinary cheap kids in the orphanage, right?

No people have problems with "mail order babies". Years ago we had the mail order brides out of the catalog. Now people select a sperm and egg and order a kid. The catalog says for sperm and egg: race, hair color, eye color, how tall, how smart, etc etc and of course you can select if you want a boy or girl. Reminds me a bit on ordering a car: which color, which engine, have this or that option, etc.

That is something complete different than a couple where she donates the egg and he the sperm and someone helps because she has a damaged uterus.

[Trentham]

This is good stuff '

There are more than enough unfortunate children waiting in orphanages all over the world to get the chance of finding loving foster parents. Take one of them as your child!!!

At some point kids want to know their true biological parents, so what they gonna tell those surrogate kids? Something like this? "It was a business you know - your biological mom carried you out just to make some extra cash but did not have any bond with you, letting alone love you? By the way, we have no idea who she was, where she lives and are also not allowed to check up on that... Oh, before I forgot - I am not your real dad, neither is Joe, your other dad... Your bio dad was a anonymous donor, I'm sorry!"

This is important and the response seems to be ' don't worry, it'll be ok'..... so blasé with predicting a kids feelings in the future.

Gays need to accept, 1) their union doesn't allow for the production of natural offspring

2) When it comes to kid raising, we don't know if there any negative outcomes to two blokes or two girls raising a kid, maybe being romantic in front of the kid, bullying at schools etc.

3)Purchasing children IS NOT THE <deleted> CORRECT ANSWER

All you poor bewildered creatures who want gays to adopt cannot get past your sexist natures to understand that the same applies to straight people. Why do you not tell them to stop procreating and adopt also????

You are all completely ignorant of the calling of nature, to follow what our genes demand, that is to have children. Many gay people use their own sperm to use with a surrogate mother.

I know a lesbian couple who, 26 years ago, used a gay friends sperm who wa..ed in the next room and then used a turkey baster to deliver it. The child born from that is now a straight well adjusted young man, a real hit with the girls, is well aware of his origins and would not have it any other way. He says that if they went to so much effort to have him then he knows he is really wanted and loved by his 2 mothers.

There has been quite a bit of research done already on the children raised by gay and lesbian couples that shows they do not suffer any detrimental effects any more than kids from straight unions. GET OVER YOUR FEAR OF THE TRUTH AND DO SOME SERIOUS READING ABOUT THE SUBJECT. Don't go looking in Catholic or Southern Baptist type websites. Look for scientific research.

And finally - grow up and get a life and get over all your prejudices.

[sanuk711]

The Church's especially the Vatican spoke against surrogate mothers being allowed.

Good thing they didn't have that view when Jesus was born.........................................

[Stradavarius37]

All the TV homophobes in one place - congrats Mods!

This is a public forum and people are entitled to their opinions, as long as they are not nasty about it, and I have

not seen a nasty comment on this topic yet

If you do not like or agree with a posters comment, then just move on Simple.

But I don't want to - that must enrage you

[cumgranosalum]

Although I'm amused by the homophobia on this thread, it was inevitable that it would emerge, it does actually cloud the issue somewhat. -

There are 2 main things going on here, one is people's prejudices about gay couples, but the other is the matter of surrogacy and all the issues surrounding that.

the former i find sad but inevitable and a reflection on the ignorance of many people who have decided to post on an issue that is actually tangential to the OP. The Latter I find somewhat distasteful.

firstly I see no reason why same sex couples should;'t have children one way or another - regardless of one's sexual orientation the urge to have children remains and can be very strong.

The problem I have is that gay OR straight, people get overwhelmed by the need for children and begin to see it as a right.....I don't agree. ....and on the top of the list I have deep reservations about surrogacy as a way to parenthood. I'm not saying it should e illegal or banned - the usual redneck response to something they don't understand -burt I think all partied involved should think long and hard about the processes involved here. So often the whole thing smacks of exploitation - the surrogate mothers are usually very poor and the prospective parents are usually wealthy middle class from another country - surely anyone taking a step back from this can see there is a multitude of questionable actions and motives going on here?

There are millions of children all over the world who need care - as humans and mammals we are genetically programmed to adopt, so the need to be genetically connected, whilst sometimes a good idea, doesn't have to be the all engulfing prerequisite, does it?

For a successful surrogacy the people need to be fully informed and capable of understanding all aspects of the process - I suspect the situation in the OP is pretty much as I outlined above - poorer woman, rich parents, but it has also brought out the problems of intercultural surrogacy that can arise most likely from the woman's poor education she is relying on a one-sided view of gay relationships and the benefit of a true full education has probably been denied her - so this sorry situation has arisen.

the same applies to the prospective couple they clearly were not in possession of all the facts,and pitfalls that they might expect.....and in the middle of it all is another person - a child - just waiting to start a life.

Edited June 25, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[brewsterbudgen]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

Homosexual couples should never be allowed to adopt children, whether they are "married" or not for very obvious reasons.

They may be the nicest people on earth but the children have to be considered first. I don't think I need to explain.

"I don't think I need to explain."

Oh but you do...you really do!

It seems to me that that fact you an that merely shows how little you have thought about the subject - so little that you can't even articulate your "explanation". There have been some very convincing arguments put forward to the contrary, so I think you need to do the same if you are to be taken seriously.

To be fair I don't think he was being serious. Just another attempt at stirring the pot!

[Donutz]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

Homosexual couples should never be allowed to adopt children, whether they are "married" or not for very obvious reasons.

They may be the nicest people on earth but the children have to be considered first. I don't think I need to explain.

"I don't think I need to explain."

Oh but you do...you really do!

It seems to me that that fact you an that merely shows how little you have thought about the subject - so little that you can't even articulate your "explanation". There have been some very convincing arguments put forward to the contrary, so I think you need to do the same if you are to be take seriously.

The subject does not take much to think about, just think about the poor children involved, they must come first before what either me or you think.

As another poster has said, it is just "me,me,me".

The children could get bullied a bit? So could many others. Perhaps ban people from having children unless they and their children are perfect. No richkids (spoiled), no minimum wage kids (border line poverty) etc. don't allow single uprising, it affects the child aswell. Take away children from any parents who do not give perfect upbringing etc. Something like that?

The only thing that matters if people ate able to raise children with the love and care they need. That the parents are hetro/gay/bi, rich/middleclass/poor etc. does not matter. And yes some chidren might be bullied a bit more then others, no reason to ban the (potential) parents from getting or raising a child. Children simple need a save, loving enviroment to grow up in.

[johnnybangkok]

This is good stuff '

There are more than enough unfortunate children waiting in orphanages all over the world to get the chance of finding loving foster parents. Take one of them as your child!!!

At some point kids want to know their true biological parents, so what they gonna tell those surrogate kids? Something like this? "It was a business you know - your biological mom carried you out just to make some extra cash but did not have any bond with you, letting alone love you? By the way, we have no idea who she was, where she lives and are also not allowed to check up on that... Oh, before I forgot - I am not your real dad, neither is Joe, your other dad... Your bio dad was a anonymous donor, I'm sorry!"

This is important and the response seems to be ' don't worry, it'll be ok'..... so blasé with predicting a kids feelings in the future.

Gays need to accept, 1) their union doesn't allow for the production of natural offspring

2) When it comes to kid raising, we don't know if there any negative outcomes to two blokes or two girls raising a kid, maybe being romantic in front of the kid, bullying at schools etc.

3)Purchasing children IS NOT THE <deleted> CORRECT ANSWER

All you poor bewildered creatures who want gays to adopt cannot get past your sexist natures to understand that the same applies to straight people. Why do you not tell them to stop procreating and adopt also????

You are all completely ignorant of the calling of nature, to follow what our genes demand, that is to have children. Many gay people use their own sperm to use with a surrogate mother.

I know a lesbian couple who, 26 years ago, used a gay friends sperm who wa..ed in the next room and then used a turkey baster to deliver it. The child born from that is now a straight well adjusted young man, a real hit with the girls, is well aware of his origins and would not have it any other way. He says that if they went to so much effort to have him then he knows he is really wanted and loved by his 2 mothers.

There has been quite a bit of research done already on the children raised by gay and lesbian couples that shows they do not suffer any detrimental effects any more than kids from straight unions. GET OVER YOUR FEAR OF THE TRUTH AND DO SOME SERIOUS READING ABOUT THE SUBJECT. Don't go looking in Catholic or Southern Baptist type websites. Look for scientific research.

And finally - grow up and get a life and get over all your prejudices.

At last a voice of reason!

People need to get over who the parents are and concentrate on how they parent. There are numerous examples and scientifically based research that has shown that children of gay couples are just as well adjusted as children from heterosexual couples. Surprise, surprise its all about how they are brought up.

[Alwyn]

Was the bloke the sperm donor making him the biological father? It sounds to me that he anticipated challenges, hence taking his 'son' who was also born out of surrogacy but in India and not, his partner. Why didn't they just adopt?

[ebonykap]

I don't think I am prejudiced or homophobic, and have a few gay friends whose company I enjoy and have the utmost respect for. They are not my "gay" friends, they are simply my friends. I don't call my straight friends my "straight" friends, there is no discrimination.

However, when it comes to children, I somehow struggle to accept the thought of same gender "parents". Since time began, parents means mother and father, maternal and paternal, female and male. I can not in any way accept that this should change. My philosophy is that should you be gay, decide to live a gay life whether partnered or married, then you sacrifice the right to adopt, surrogate or raise children period.

So, gay people be delighted that you are more accepted in society nowadays, you can be partnered mostly without harassment, and can marry in some parts of the world. This I can salute and consider positive progress. But please, PLEASE, leave the children out of it.

[Franky Bear]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

Homosexual couples should never be allowed to adopt children, whether they are "married" or not for very obvious reasons.

They may be the nicest people on earth but the children have to be considered first. I don't think I need to explain.

Nope, you don't. You're straight up dumb

[Jay Sata]

Whatever your viewpoint on surrogacy the reality is that no foreigner can just turn up in Thailand and adopt a child.

The process takes some time with many checks and balances in place.

In my opinion they are going to find this case drags out.

Anything to do with bureaucracy in Thailand is slow at best.

[scoooooby]

HOT NEWS - Babies available in 7-11 soon...... This world has gone nuts!!!

[johnnybangkok]

I don't think I am prejudiced or homophobic, and have a few gay friends whose company I enjoy and have the utmost respect for. They are not my "gay" friends, they are simply my friends. I don't call my straight friends my "straight" friends, there is no discrimination.

However, when it comes to children, I somehow struggle to accept the thought of same gender "parents". Since time began, parents means mother and father, maternal and paternal, female and male. I can not in any way accept that this should change. My philosophy is that should you be gay, decide to live a gay life whether partnered or married, then you sacrifice the right to adopt, surrogate or raise children period.

So, gay people be delighted that you are more accepted in society nowadays, you can be partnered mostly without harassment, and can marry in some parts of the world. This I can salute and consider positive progress. But please, PLEASE, leave the children out of it.

"I don't think I am prejudiced or homophobic.......however". You may not be homophobic but you certainly are prejudiced as you cannot say that I'm fine with gays as long as they don't have the same right to become parents as straight people. This is the exact meaning of prejudice.

I know you mean well (as do many people on this post) but you cannot say you are fine with gays whilst secretly holding these types of views. As mentioned in many of the comments here, there is scientific and peer reviewed studies that clearly say that the sexual orientation of the parents has no standing on the child and that all that matters is that they are raised in a loving, caring and nurturing environment.

Take the time to do some studying on the subject and better still, have a good chat with the few gay friends you have and get their side of the story. You should perhaps be concerned that if you do voice your opinion they will see you for the prejudiced individual that you really are and you may lose some of them, but if they are truly good friends hopefully they will open your eyes to the fact it doesn't matter the sexual orientation of the parent; it's all about the love they can give.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

The poor child, he/she will loose whichever way it goes. If the child stay here its doomed into poverty. If the child becomes the child of a gay couple, the child will have to survive all the negatives in school of having same sex parents. Its very interesting that there is no long term study ever done on the effects of children growing up in a same sex home. So scientificaly I cant say it will be negative and neither can same sex couples say it will be positive or neutral. But from living live I know what abuse these children will endure at school. Unfortunately governments only love science when it suites them, in this case I believe that governments have approved child adoption by same sex partners without doing the research needed to determine the long term effects on children. Hereby I am not saying the same sex parents will be at fault, but I believe society views could harm these children. The need of the adults to have children can never override the well being of the child.

With respect, can't you see that it's old fashioned and outdated attitudes like yours that are leading 'societies views".? I'm sure you are well intentioned and truly believe that you have the child's welfare at heart but the chain of discrimination has to be broken at some stage so rather than perpetuate the negative, why don't you try encouraging the positives?

It wasn't so long ago that it was firmly believed that black and white children shouldn't mix because it 'wasn't fair on the kids'. Thankfully time has shown that not to be the case but it took some brave people to stand up to 'the norm' and say that attitudes had to change. I see the debate about gay marriage and gay people having children as being equal to the Civil Rights movement predominately in the US but also in Europe and that in 20 years no one will think twice about LGBT community having equal rights to marriage, adoption etc that the rest of us have enjoyed all of our lives. And by the way, children are a lot more resilient (and open minded) than you give them credit for and will readily accept a 'different' parental set up IF they are not unduly influenced by backward thinking parents.

You are unfortunately living in a dream world where children act like adults. Unfortunately children can be very cruel and prey on anyone different. Look at the number of sucides by children thats been abused by other children. We will not ever agree on this thus lets agree to disagree and hope I am wrong because if I am right we will have 100's of thousands of abused children out there on top of the millions we already have.