They say it comes in 3s. Time to give up the bike, perhaps?

[BBJ]

A couple a weeks ago I reported a minor accident with a numpty on a scooter. Today, my second in as many weeks, I fall of the bike having just had a brand new set of Pirelli MT60s fitted.

I consider myself to be an experience rider having ridden over 30 years, and to boot I get the opportunity to test ride bikes and cars from time to time for various manufacturers here. I have the wife to thank for that. But as I left the fitters (name not mentioned just yet) I gently leave with barely any throttle (need to rough up the tires) and as I turn to join the road the back-end spun out as though on ice. Guys at shop try to explain because tires are new. No way I say as I barely moved. On inspection there is still tire lube on the side walls! In the meantime my left-hand guard is busted, but no damage other than that.

I let it go in that I didn't loose the plot, but while riding I noticed the guard is busted and it has broken the end nut of the bars. Do I pursue it, or let it go? Is it worth speaking to the insurance. My wife knows a few people from Pirelli as she was the former GM of Autospinn/One2Car and is going to ask if the tire being new, with that kind of grip designed for dust, dirt and so would let go so easy.

Oddly enough I was talking to them about a KX450F to ride off road only, and get rid of the Versys to keep my away from the tarmac! (No clues!)

Bugger!

Before any smarty-pants ask if I did a life-saver check, and is my bike taxed, yes it is! No the white line was not the culprit. Tires let go about half meter before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFCw6DKwqOU&feature=youtu.be

Edited July 2, 2015 by BBJ

[MaeJoMTB]

The road surface looks pretty slick too.

[BBJ]

The road surface looks pretty slick too.

True, surface on that corner isn't great. I was really gentle on the throttle if you can hear. It only revs out when I drop the bike. The lube left on the side-walls would have kept Ron Jeremy going for hours! And besides, I'm still on my feet when it drops. If I had given it some stick I'd have been on my back.

Edited July 2, 2015 by BBJ

[hansgruber]

From the video. The second your rear tire hit the white line,it slipped.

Waxy new tires will do that.

[BBJ]

From the video. The second your rear tire hit the white line,it slipped.

Waxy new tires will do that.

As i mentioned above. The tire gave way half meter before. Tire marks on road visible.

6 seconds in you can see the point they lost grip.

Tire lube will do that too.

Edited July 2, 2015 by BBJ

[JonnyF]

Yeah looks like something was on the tyres. Could be lube, could be oil or some other liquid on the shop floor that your bike went through after the tyre was fitted.

Nearly lost the front end of my Ninja after they washed it and smeared a load of that black stuff over the side walls of the tyres and managed to get it on the contact patch as well.

I doubt they'll admit fault and pay up. Probably below the excess on insurance as well. I'd try and get them to pay but not get any hopes up.

.

[BBJ]

^No really damage, just inconvenience more than anything. New plastic guard for the motech.

[losworld]

Check the air pressure Thais like to inflate to 60 lbs. I am sure a combination of grease on sides of tire and overinflation.

[BBJ]

^Yep, over inflated as well. I typically run 34 on the rear and 32 on the back when on tarmac with these tires. 38 and back and 36 front when I checked. Explains the hard ride home as well!

[Coaster11]

Grease or some sort of lube used to fit the tire...ouch!!

Something to be wary of. Thanks for the post.

[misterkeeperofthereef]

Usually on new tires they are coated with a release agent to ease getting them out of the mould. Bigger bike tires usually have a sticker on the side advisin to take it easy for the first 150 kms . I learned my lesson the hard way too as the same thing happened to me 300 meters and the first corner I went around. Chock it up to experience and a lesson learned.

[dotpoom]

Not sure why you think the tyre fitters are responsible?

[andreandre]

Yeah looks like something was on the tyres. Could be lube, could be oil or some other liquid on the shop floor that your bike went through after the tyre was fitted.

Nearly lost the front end of my Ninja after they washed it and smeared a load of that black stuff over the side walls of the tyres and managed to get it on the contact patch as well.

I doubt they'll admit fault and pay up. Probably below the excess on insurance as well. I'd try and get them to pay but not get any hopes up.

.

To me it looks like you did things right..as far as not big power or big lean angle on cold new tyres....just 'bad luck"..IMO lube on the sidewall and/or slightly higher pressures should not have caused the fall

Mates in Oz had tyre shop and what happened to you, i saw often, but more often than not on a more powerful bike and even after warning the riders of the slipperyness of new tyres, many still took a fall.

In mates shop nothing to do with wrong pressures and/ or lube left on the tyres, just one of those things that can happen..

Even when i got tyres at their shop, knowing that all was done correctly, i would take a piece of very coarse sandpaper 40 grit and buff the tyres first, before i left the shop..takes minutes=saves embaressment and skin.Too easy!

[JonnyF]

Yeah looks like something was on the tyres. Could be lube, could be oil or some other liquid on the shop floor that your bike went through after the tyre was fitted.

Nearly lost the front end of my Ninja after they washed it and smeared a load of that black stuff over the side walls of the tyres and managed to get it on the contact patch as well.

I doubt they'll admit fault and pay up. Probably below the excess on insurance as well. I'd try and get them to pay but not get any hopes up.

.

To me it looks like you did things right..as far as not big power or big lean angle on cold new tyres....just 'bad luck"..IMO lube on the sidewall and/or slightly higher pressures should not have caused the fall

Mates in Oz had tyre shop and what happened to you, i saw often, but more often than not on a more powerful bike and even after warning the riders of the slipperyness of new tyres, many still took a fall.

In mates shop nothing to do with wrong pressures and/ or lube left on the tyres, just one of those things that can happen..

Even when i got tyres at their shop, knowing that all was done correctly, i would take a piece of very coarse sandpaper 40 grit and buff the tyres first, before i left the shop..takes minutes=saves embaressment and skin.Too easy!

Not sure if you meant to quote me then, I was just replying to the OP. In my case they put liquid on the actual contact patch as well, not the sidewall. Anyway, here's a classic that shows what can happen on new tyres.

[CarolJadzia]

They say to be careful for the first hundred miles or so on new tyres.

However for it to go so quickly I think there possibly might have been something on the tyre. Tyre soap or maybe oil from the workshop.

Even though the guy I go to for tyres for my ZRX11 knows I have been a biker for over 30 years, a mechanic and riding instructor, he still warns me to be "careful on the new tyres"

He see's the same thing regularly.

Heres Bridgestone explaining it - http://www.bridgestone.co.uk/moto/knowledge/advice/2012/05/running-in-new-motorcycle-tyres/

[kovaltech]

it looks that the whole tyre has been whiped with the tire lube... see the color diference between the contact points on the road and the not touching surface from the tire..

It is not normal that you would see this much tire black on the street unless you had high rev spinning wheel...

a second remark: side stander scratching on the road ?

They lifted your bike from the road, put him on the center stander ... why ?

looking at the scratch marks on the road makes me thinking...

[andreandre]

Yeah looks like something was on the tyres. Could be lube, could be oil or some other liquid on the shop floor that your bike went through after the tyre was fitted.

Nearly lost the front end of my Ninja after they washed it and smeared a load of that black stuff over the side walls of the tyres and managed to get it on the contact patch as well.

I doubt they'll admit fault and pay up. Probably below the excess on insurance as well. I'd try and get them to pay but not get any hopes up.

.

To me it looks like you did things right..as far as not big power or big lean angle on cold new tyres....just 'bad luck"..IMO lube on the sidewall and/or slightly higher pressures should not have caused the fall

Mates in Oz had tyre shop and what happened to you, i saw often, but more often than not on a more powerful bike and even after warning the riders of the slipperyness of new tyres, many still took a fall.

In mates shop nothing to do with wrong pressures and/ or lube left on the tyres, just one of those things that can happen..

Even when i got tyres at their shop, knowing that all was done correctly, i would take a piece of very coarse sandpaper 40 grit and buff the tyres first, before i left the shop..takes minutes=saves embaressment and skin.Too easy!

Not sure if you meant to quote me then, I was just replying to the OP. In my case they put liquid on the actual contact patch as well, not the sidewall. Anyway, here's a classic that shows what can happen on new tyres.

My bad...was replying to OP mainly...but as i said, simply spending a couple of minutes buffing the tyres with coarse sandpaper is all that is needed...go fast/lean extreme basically as soon as you want...Should be compulsory for tyre fitters to do this or at least offer to...had one clown who didn't want to because he would lose some kilometers of tyre use.. proof that you can only help those who want to help themselves.

Edited July 2, 2015 by andreandre

[BBJ]

it looks that the whole tyre has been whiped with the tire lube... see the color diference between the contact points on the road and the not touching surface from the tire..

It is not normal that you would see this much tire black on the street unless you had high rev spinning wheel...

a second remark: side stander scratching on the road ?

They lifted your bike from the road, put him on the center stander ... why ?

looking at the scratch marks on the road makes me thinking...

Bike doesn't have a center stand and won't start when in gear on side-stand. Rules that one out.

Lube, there was a <deleted> load on my finger when I scrapped around the tire.

[BBJ]

Not sure why you think the tyre fitters are responsible?

Erm?

[kovaltech]

it looks that the whole tyre has been whiped with the tire lube... see the color diference between the contact points on the road and the not touching surface from the tire..

It is not normal that you would see this much tire black on the street unless you had high rev spinning wheel...

a second remark: side stander scratching on the road ?

They lifted your bike from the road, put him on the center stander ... why ?

looking at the scratch marks on the road makes me thinking...

Bike doesn't have a center stand and won't start when in gear on side-stand. Rules that one out.

Lube, there was a <deleted> load on my finger when I scrapped around the tire.

After they picked up your bike, lifted it up, i can't see the rear tire is touching the floor, but i do see some shade of what appears a stander...

Lube on the sides of your tire will not cause this fall.

I will listen tonight with my headphones on for the sound of it...

[CarolJadzia]

Lube on the sides of your tire will not cause this fall.

Sorry but tyre soap on the walls can and will cause a slide out.

A proper trained motorcycle tyre fitter will be careful to not use too much tyre soap but it is a necessary evil of the job.

Trying to get motorcycle tyres to pop onto the rim can sometimes be a pain in the ****! Hence the 60 psi.

But they should then set the pressure and make sure the tyre is clean.

Although once a tyre is contaminated you cannot just wipe it off.

Chances are the fitter was a bit too generous with the soap.

However a lose of traction on new tyres is very common hence the 100 mile running-in warnings.

[kovaltech]

Lube on the sides of your tire will not cause this fall.

Sorry but tyre soap on the walls can and will cause a slide out.

A proper trained motorcycle tyre fitter will be careful to not use too much tyre soap but it is a necessary evil of the job.

Trying to get motorcycle tyres to pop onto the rim can sometimes be a pain in the ****! Hence the 60 psi.

But they should then set the pressure and make sure the tyre is clean.

Although once a tyre is contaminated you cannot just wipe it off.

Chances are the fitter was a bit too generous with the soap.

However a lose of traction on new tyres is very common hence the 100 mile running-in warnings.

If the soap is on the walls it does not touch the road... ergo, it will never cause the slide out.... unless you drive on the sidewall off course...

running-in warnings.... for cold weather and in experienced racers....

I drive an average mileage off 15.000Km a year, this since 35 years... had 1 fall with a KTM LC 4 624 , long time ago, from torquing on a stone cold tyre on a stone cold road...

Had many flatt tyre's, snowy conditions, ice, mud ( no ice and snow last 3 years ) and i drive now the CRF250 with standard IRC tyres ( bone hard rubber compound but did hold 22000 miles ) and i drive on Thai muddy roads... oil soaked when first rain falls...

No way that i go down with soap... on the side wall....

[Ulic]

Tire lube on tire surface combined with a slippery road surface = no chance. Sorry dude just

glad there was no truck driver smoking along half asleep or texting. Learning from others

next time I have the tires changed I will look for excessive use of lube.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Ulic

[impulse]

The universe has sent you not one, but 2 messages.

Many folks aren't that lucky- they don't survive the first or second- when it's a scooter in Thailand involved.

Up to you whether you pay heed...

[BBJ]

it looks that the whole tyre has been whiped with the tire lube... see the color diference between the contact points on the road and the not touching surface from the tire..

It is not normal that you would see this much tire black on the street unless you had high rev spinning wheel...

a second remark: side stander scratching on the road ?

They lifted your bike from the road, put him on the center stander ... why ?

looking at the scratch marks on the road makes me thinking...

Bike doesn't have a center stand and won't start when in gear on side-stand. Rules that one out.

Lube, there was a <deleted> load on my finger when I scrapped around the tire.

After they picked up your bike, lifted it up, i can't see the rear tire is touching the floor, but i do see some shade of what appears a stander...

Lube on the sides of your tire will not cause this fall.

I will listen tonight with my headphones on for the sound of it...

I understand what you're saying as for the tire not being in contact with the floor but this is due to the crash protection and SW foot pegs.

I believe I am a competent rider and can handle a bike well. I do plenty of off road and trail riding and I have some experience with tires having had my previous set of Pirelli MT60s given to me for testing, as well as Michelin and Yokohama for cars. So i'm well aware of the safety issues with new tires; I'm no expert of course. As for the tires marks on the road, this is due to the fact the bike has already lost traction and the bike falling has twisted my wrist and throttle spinning it out. I have ridden through soft mud with lots of lean and camber when off road and the back end has never given up like that. Additionally, these tires are roughly a 60/40 tire and should have provided much more grip than a standard road tire in this situation if it were to be dust or grease on the road.

Besides, the dealer admitted fault and apologized and also pointed out the lube still left on the right-side of the rear tire despite it being cleaned. I was a little peeved off and was considering to report to the insurance but now it just doesn't seem it is worth the aggravation.

Edited July 2, 2015 by BBJ

[tingtongfarang]

I worked for a period of 6 months stripping-relocating-rebuilding of 4 particle accelerators at a pirelli plant, untill this time i have never thought about how they used this process in tire tech, i seen all types of tires going through these machines and in all cases there seemed to be a harder crust for want of a better word on all tires,

When asking a pirelli guy how they deal with this he said...there is a machine for some tires which takes this off but on road tires we dont deem this necessary.

[Happy Grumpy]

If they are an official distributor of Pirelli, then report that they are selling fitted tires at over inflated PSI with lube smeared on the side.

[BBJ]

From the photos, in particular the right-side you can clearly see the tire lubrication left on the side walls. Only needs a small blob of this stuff. I just don't think they took that much care to clean it.

[CarolJadzia]

Lube on the sides of your tire will not cause this fall.

Sorry but tyre soap on the walls can and will cause a slide out.

A proper trained motorcycle tyre fitter will be careful to not use too much tyre soap but it is a necessary evil of the job.

Trying to get motorcycle tyres to pop onto the rim can sometimes be a pain in the ****! Hence the 60 psi.

But they should then set the pressure and make sure the tyre is clean.

Although once a tyre is contaminated you cannot just wipe it off.

Chances are the fitter was a bit too generous with the soap.

However a lose of traction on new tyres is very common hence the 100 mile running-in warnings.

If the soap is on the walls it does not touch the road... ergo, it will never cause the slide out.... unless you drive on the sidewall off course...

running-in warnings.... for cold weather and in experienced racers....

I drive an average mileage off 15.000Km a year, this since 35 years... had 1 fall with a KTM LC 4 624 , long time ago, from torquing on a stone cold tyre on a stone cold road...

Had many flatt tyre's, snowy conditions, ice, mud ( no ice and snow last 3 years ) and i drive now the CRF250 with standard IRC tyres ( bone hard rubber compound but did hold 22000 miles ) and i drive on Thai muddy roads... oil soaked when first rain falls...

No way that i go down with soap... on the side wall....

Well glad to hear you have never come off. But that is down to your luck and riding abilities. Well done.

You are right that the warmer climate will make a difference. But the compounds of the tyres in Thailand will also generally be harder as well.

Sorry but personal experience does not change documented facts

New tyres – Time to go Careful - http://www.lifford-cooke.com/motorbiking/documents/newtyres.pdf

[BBJ]

Not sure how soap has come about. It was tire lube with the same consistency as KY jelly or similar. If the numpties have simply wiped it with a rag, the chances are it has got on the main tread, even if a little!

The photos don't do it justice. My finger was caked in the stuff after running it around.

Edited July 2, 2015 by BBJ