Clinton says she opposes boycott effort against Israel

[thaibeachlovers]

While some people still believe the propaganda opposing the BDS movement, that it is antisemitic or Judeophobic or trying to bring an end to the state of Israel, Hilary draws far short of those silly accusations.

I think common sense will prevail and the movement will gain traction, as it has been doing in the US and Europe.

As the US election draws nearer, Hilary's team will crunch the numbers and the Jewish lobby may be in for a disappointment. Lets hope so, as the BDS movement, although gaining ground, could do with some help in it's laudable attempts to make Israel face up to it's misdeeds.

I'm glad this thread came up. I was just thinking how great it would be if there was an international boycott on Israel like they used on apartheid, and now I know there is one. I shall be joining it. Unfortunately I don't know of any Israeli products on sale here to boycott. I shall have to be checking labels more closely in future.

No Israeli products for you?

Better toss out your computer now.

I guess you will be posting now by howling from the rooftops.

It's been real.

I did notice a humus product that Villa used to carry that had some kind of Israel connection is no longer sold there.

I'm not sure whether the Judeophobic BDS bigots influenced that decision or whether there was a legit market reason.

I used to buy it because it was vastly superior to the other humus products sold here.

Now the crappy stuff is left ....

Sorry processed humus from AUSTRALIA ... there ought to be a law!

Wow, I didn't know they only made computers in israel- they DON'T.

The computer I'm using has components from Taiwan and is assembled in Thailand.

Never eat humus since I tried the nasty stuff in Saudi- yuchh.

[thaibeachlovers]

Whatever one may think of Mrs. Clinton, she has a great deal of knowledge and experience in the foreign policy arena. She also has some of the most experienced people in the field around her.

Politics and votes aside, there is very little chance that the Palestinians are going to agree to much of a peace deal. The Palestinians will not go away and they will likely not be forced out, but if concessions are made by Israel, it may be the very end of the Jewish State and with it one of the major players in the ME.

The US would be up a creek without a paddle without Israel. In the scheme of things the Palestinians offer nothing in the area of safety and security for the region.

The US would be up a creek without a paddle without Israel

55555555555555555

The US and the world would be in a far, far better place if they hadn't approved Israel in the new UN in 1948. Israel caused the terror groups that plague us now by their attrocities against the Palestinians.

It may have eluded you, but the only country next to Israel that isn't a US ally is Syria.

Hamas and Hezbollah will be pleased to hear that.

And your point is?

Hamas is in the Gaza strip which isn't a country and while Hezbollah is in Lebanon Lebanon isn't run by Hezbollah. Hezbollah was formed in retaliation to the invasion of Lebanon by Israel.

Edited July 11, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[Jingthing]

There is much more to how your computer works than where the HARDWARE is manufactured ... but anyway, ignorance is bliss. Keep typing.

[Thorgal]

While some people still believe the propaganda opposing the BDS movement, that it is antisemitic or Judeophobic or trying to bring an end to the state of Israel, Hilary draws far short of those silly accusations.

I think common sense will prevail and the movement will gain traction, as it has been doing in the US and Europe.

As the US election draws nearer, Hilary's team will crunch the numbers and the Jewish lobby may be in for a disappointment. Lets hope so, as the BDS movement, although gaining ground, could do with some help in it's laudable attempts to make Israel face up to it's misdeeds.

I'm glad this thread came up. I was just thinking how great it would be if there was an international boycott on Israel like they used on apartheid, and now I know there is one. I shall be joining it. Unfortunately I don't know of any Israeli products on sale here to boycott. I shall have to be checking labels more closely in future.

There's a scanner app 'Buycott' available to detect Israeli products. It works like a charm. Be aware that Israel uses 2 country codes on the bar-coded products.

It's based on Israeli technology.

It aims :

1. Ending its occupation of Palestine and dismantling the Wall.

2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality.

3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.

http://buycott.com/campaign/782/long-live-palestine-boycott-israel

http://rt.com/news/178704-app-buycott-israel-palestine/

Edited July 11, 2015 by Thorgal

[losworld]

Aipac and the Foreign Relations Committee are far too powerful.

[Jingthing]

Don't be deluded by Judeophobic BDS propaganda painting their movement as benign.

Their aim is to end Israel.

It's hard to get more Jew hating than to have as your goal the end of the one Jewish majority nation state in the world, created in response to thousands of years of persecution of Jews in the diaspora.

Notice some people pushing BDS on this very forum have a history of posting links to Neo-Nazi websites.

The truth about what BDS is really about needs to be broadcast.

Those who actually agree with their Jew hating / DEATH TO ISRAEL (same as Iran really) agenda, go ahead and support BDS.

Others ... don't be sucked in by that odious movement.

The BDS movement tries to obfuscate its support for Israel’s destruction (not its physical destruction, the end of its statehood).

...

The BDS movement is designed to turn the clock back to the time before Israel was created.

http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2014/03/26/the-official-goal-of-bds-is-ending-israel-not-just-the-67-occupation/

I do realize many naive, peace loving idealists support BDS in good faith and don't understand what BDS is really about. BDS is really about goals little different than Hamas, goals that if realized would be genocidal towards Jews. There are many millions of Jews living in Israel. The vast majority were born there and the vast majority are not welcome back in the land they might be tied to in some way in the past, such as the Arab and Muslim world (most Israeli Jews have ties there) or Ukraine (where many new to Israel Jews are fleeing from right now!).

So be clear I am not saying every supporter of BDS has Jew hatred in their hearts though many do, particularly those who are Muslim. But the GOALS of BDS, they are very Jew hating ... because of what would happen if their goals succeeded.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Jingthing

[pegman]

Nothing would change with this terrible woman running the US. She is no better than Reagan or Thatcher who lent support to the South African apartheid regime. My country helped lead the boycott of South Africa and I and my countrymen are proud of it. The country south of us saw it more as a money issue and that almighty $ must prevail always. Maybe O and Kerry can do something in their remaining time. Sanders may be the only one with the morality to do something positive of the '16 want-to-bes. As for the racist Zionists calling the boycotters names like anti-semites that seems to me to be like Confederites calling abolitionist racists.

[Thorgal]

Don't be deluded by Judeophobic BDS propaganda painting their movement as benign.

Their aim is to end Israel.

It's hard to get more Jew hating than to have as your goal the end of the one Jewish majority nation state in the world, created in response to thousands of years of persecution of Jews in the diaspora.

Notice some people pushing BDS on this very forum have a history of posting links to Neo-Nazi websites.

The truth about what BDS is really about needs to be broadcast.

Those who actually agree with their Jew hating / DEATH TO ISRAEL (same as Iran really) agenda, go ahead and support BDS.

Others ... don't be sucked in by that odious movement.

The BDS movement tries to obfuscate its support for Israel’s destruction (not its physical destruction, the end of its statehood).

...

The BDS movement is designed to turn the clock back to the time before Israel was created.

http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2014/03/26/the-official-goal-of-bds-is-ending-israel-not-just-the-67-occupation/

I do realize many naive, peace loving idealists support BDS in good faith and don't understand what BDS is really about. BDS is really about goals little different than Hamas, goals that if realized would be genocidal towards Jews. There are many millions of Jews living in Israel. The vast majority were born there and the vast majority are not welcome back in the land they might be tied to in some way in the past, such as the Arab and Muslim world (most Israeli Jews have ties there) or Ukraine (where many new to Israel Jews are fleeing from right now!).

So be clear I am not saying every supporter of BDS has Jew hatred in their hearts though many do, particularly those who are Muslim. But the GOALS of BDS, they are very Jew hating ... because of what would happen if their goals succeeded.

You've provided a link from MJ Rosenberg.

Quote from link :

M.J. Rosenberg was formerly a Senior Foreign Policy Fellow at Media Matters Action Network. Prior to this, he worked on Capitol Hill for 15 years for various Democratic members of the House and Senate.

Rosenberg was also a Clinton political appointee at USAID. In the early 1980s, he was the editor of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee's weekly newsletter Near East Report. During 1998–2009, he was director of policy at Israel Policy Forum.

During 2009–2012, he worked for Media Matters for America, a position he left after a confrontation with Alan Dershowitz, who objected to Rosenberg's use of the term "Israel Firster," and threatened to punish President Obama if Rosenberg remained at the Democratic-affiliated organization.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.J._Rosenberg

Why providing such a biased article from such a biased 'Israel First' editor who worked previously for AIPAC...?

And about similar neo-nazi quotes :

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/odious-israel-libel-article-1.1028212

Edited July 11, 2015 by Thorgal

[Jingthing]

I will ignore Thorgal and his obsessive discounting of sources written by Jews considering the history of the sources (including EXPLICIT Neo-Nazi racist sources) that he respects.

I never said the source wasn't a Jew and pro Israel. Jew Jew Jew, are we done with the silliness now?

And now another solid Jew Jew Jew source exposing the true Judeophobic, Israel destroying agenda of the BDS movement:

Observers who have followed the ongoing delegitimization campaign against Israel may have noticed that these BDS calls are not meant merely to pressure Israel toward a two-state solution. Instead, BDS is being used as a platform to advocate ending Israel’s existence as the nation-state of the Jewish people. As such, the BDS movement’s objectives parallel Hamas’ war goals.4 Michael Gove, Britain’s Conservative Party whip, labeled European BDS calls against Israel during the 2014 Hamas-Israel war as a “resurgent, mutating, lethal virus of anti-Semitism” reminiscent of Nazi boycotts of Jews on the eve of the Holocaust.5

http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/

Again I will say if you really agree with the TRUE goals of the BDS movement, by all means you are free to support them just as you are free to join ISIS if that floats your boat. But I am concerned that so many don't really UNDERSTAND the true goals of BDS.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

I will ignore Thorgal and his obsessive discounting of sources written by Jews considering the history of the sources that he respects. Yes including explicit Neo Nazi, Jew hating sources, that's who we're dealing with here ... why hide from the reality?

Well said. Pretty stupid to try to demonize Jewish sources when the subject is Israel.

Unmasking BDS:

Hamas and other rejectionist groups consider all of Israel to be occupied Arab land, and even the Palestinian Authority’s official media promote the notion that all of Israel is “Occupied Palestine.” - See more at: http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/#sthash.CvNpIcxu.w7GfclqA.dpuf

Edited July 11, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

I will ignore Thorgal and his obsessive discounting of sources written by Jews considering the history of the sources (including EXPLICIT Neo-Nazi racist sources) that he respects.

I never said the source wasn't a Jew and pro Israel. Jew Jew Jew, are we done with the silliness now?

And now another solid Jew Jew Jew source exposing the true Judeophobic, Israel destroying agenda of the BDS movement:

Observers who have followed the ongoing delegitimization campaign against Israel may have noticed that these BDS calls are not meant merely to pressure Israel toward a two-state solution. Instead, BDS is being used as a platform to advocate ending Israel’s existence as the nation-state of the Jewish people. As such, the BDS movement’s objectives parallel Hamas’ war goals.4 Michael Gove, Britain’s Conservative Party whip, labeled European BDS calls against Israel during the 2014 Hamas-Israel war as a “resurgent, mutating, lethal virus of anti-Semitism” reminiscent of Nazi boycotts of Jews on the eve of the Holocaust.5

http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/

Again I will say if you really agree with the TRUE goals of the BDS movement, by all means you are free to support them just as you are free to join ISIS if that floats your boat. But I am concerned that so many don't really UNDERSTAND the true goals of BDS.

I'm pretty sure that the obsessive anti-Jew/Israel posters on TV understand very well the true goals of BDS. They want to accomplish exact the same things.

"The global BDS crusade seeks the dismantling of Israel and its replacement with another Arab-majority state."

http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/

[up-country_sinclair]

I'm glad this thread came up. I was just thinking how great it would be if there was an international boycott on Israel like they used on apartheid, and now I know there is one. I shall be joining it. Unfortunately I don't know of any Israeli products on sale here to boycott. I shall have to be checking labels more closely in future.

This should help:

Edited July 11, 2015 by up-country_sinclair

[Jingthing]

A better idea:

Warning to the overly Judeophobic. Images of ACTUAL Jews below. Cover your eyes!

http://www.standwithus.com/campaigns/big/

Edited July 11, 2015 by Jingthing

[BKKBobby]

I will ignore Thorgal and his obsessive discounting of sources written by Jews considering the history of the sources (including EXPLICIT Neo-Nazi racist sources) that he respects.

I never said the source wasn't a Jew and pro Israel. Jew Jew Jew, are we done with the silliness now?

And now another solid Jew Jew Jew source exposing the true Judeophobic, Israel destroying agenda of the BDS movement:

Observers who have followed the ongoing delegitimization campaign against Israel may have noticed that these BDS calls are not meant merely to pressure Israel toward a two-state solution. Instead, BDS is being used as a platform to advocate ending Israel’s existence as the nation-state of the Jewish people. As such, the BDS movement’s objectives parallel Hamas’ war goals.4 Michael Gove, Britain’s Conservative Party whip, labeled European BDS calls against Israel during the 2014 Hamas-Israel war as a “resurgent, mutating, lethal virus of anti-Semitism” reminiscent of Nazi boycotts of Jews on the eve of the Holocaust.5

http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/

Again I will say if you really agree with the TRUE goals of the BDS movement, by all means you are free to support them just as you are free to join ISIS if that floats your boat. But I am concerned that so many don't really UNDERSTAND the true goals of BDS.

Your MO is to connect anti-zionism and the BDS movement to unrelated strongly negative behaviours and actions such as the shameful speeches and orchestrated stunts by the Iranian regime and to reactionary salafist takfiri terrorists such as ISIS.

No one here buys it, dont bother.

[Ulysses G.]

"The BDS is being used as a platform to advocate ending Israels existence as the nation-state of the Jewish people."

Michael Gove, Britains Conservative Party whip, labeled European BDS calls against Israel during the 2014 Hamas-Israel war as a resurgent, mutating, lethal virus of anti-Semitism reminiscent of Nazi boycotts of Jews on the eve of the Holocaust. - See more at: http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/#sthash.ROgfgWiw.dpuf

No one here buys it, dont bother.

Anti-Semitic BDS supporters are not really his target audience.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Credo]

I could care less who makes something. If it's well made, I'll buy it. That is why I don't buy things from China.

[Seastallion]

I will ignore Thorgal and his obsessive discounting of sources written by Jews considering the history of the sources (including EXPLICIT Neo-Nazi racist sources) that he respects.

I never said the source wasn't a Jew and pro Israel. Jew Jew Jew, are we done with the silliness now?

And now another solid Jew Jew Jew source exposing the true Judeophobic, Israel destroying agenda of the BDS movement:

Observers who have followed the ongoing delegitimization campaign against Israel may have noticed that these BDS calls are not meant merely to pressure Israel toward a two-state solution. Instead, BDS is being used as a platform to advocate ending Israel’s existence as the nation-state of the Jewish people. As such, the BDS movement’s objectives parallel Hamas’ war goals.4 Michael Gove, Britain’s Conservative Party whip, labeled European BDS calls against Israel during the 2014 Hamas-Israel war as a “resurgent, mutating, lethal virus of anti-Semitism” reminiscent of Nazi boycotts of Jews on the eve of the Holocaust.5

http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/

Again I will say if you really agree with the TRUE goals of the BDS movement, by all means you are free to support them just as you are free to join ISIS if that floats your boat. But I am concerned that so many don't really UNDERSTAND the true goals of BDS.

Please enlighten what these "TRUE" goals are. Not with opinion pieces, not with anecdotes, not with emotional histrionics and not with illogical references to Iran.

Let me help you. Here is the BDS list of goals (and the link):

"The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by: Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall; Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194. - See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro#sthash.R4UUBoJz.dpuf".

At times your argument against BDS is that the results will bring about the end of the state of Israel. I have three things to say to that;

1. It is NOT their stated goal.

2. If by complying with the law, the state is endangered....do you condone continued criminality? Continued criminality against millions of innocent people!

3. The end of the state is your projection and is by no means a fact.

It's very convenient for you that you have me on "ignore", as with other members, because you have an excuse not to answer the inconvenient questions.

Never mind...other posters will read and, if they are not morally corrupt, will consider the questions honestly.

[Seastallion]

A better idea:

Warning to the overly Judeophobic. Images of ACTUAL Jews below. Cover your eyes!

http://www.standwithus.com/campaigns/big/

BIG.jpg

I would say "Boooooo. Movements against BDS support the Zionist goal of "river to the sea".", but I would be encouraging your drift off-topic while you promote your personal off-topic agenda.

[Thorgal]

A better idea:

Warning to the overly Judeophobic. Images of ACTUAL Jews below. Cover your eyes!

http://www.standwithus.com/campaigns/big/

BIG.jpg

I prefer to keep my eyes opened...

Quote from link :

'The Israeli Prime Minister’s Office, headed by Benjamin Netanyahu, will fund a hasbara organization to disseminate propaganda on behalf of the Israeli government. The allocation of public funds, over NIS 1 million (over $250,000) in 2015, is intended to fund a joint project by the National Information Directorate and the Israeli branch of StandWithUs, an American hasbara organization.'

'In addition to Israeli students, the project will also enlist students from the U.S. and Britain, who will be flown to Israel in order to take part in “educational and training meetings.'

http://972mag.com/standwithus-to-take-cash-messaging-from-israeli-govt/101314/

Why providing actions of biased right winged Israeli militants, knowing that they have been sponsored by the Israeli government for hasbara exploits with an agenda who's not in line with the global opinion of the BDS...

Like this, we can never have an objective and unbiased debate on this thread...

Edited July 11, 2015 by Thorgal

[Thorgal]

I will ignore Thorgal and his obsessive discounting of sources written by Jews considering the history of the sources (including EXPLICIT Neo-Nazi racist sources) that he respects.

I never said the source wasn't a Jew and pro Israel. Jew Jew Jew, are we done with the silliness now?

And now another solid Jew Jew Jew source exposing the true Judeophobic, Israel destroying agenda of the BDS movement:

Observers who have followed the ongoing delegitimization campaign against Israel may have noticed that these BDS calls are not meant merely to pressure Israel toward a two-state solution. Instead, BDS is being used as a platform to advocate ending Israel’s existence as the nation-state of the Jewish people. As such, the BDS movement’s objectives parallel Hamas’ war goals.4 Michael Gove, Britain’s Conservative Party whip, labeled European BDS calls against Israel during the 2014 Hamas-Israel war as a “resurgent, mutating, lethal virus of anti-Semitism” reminiscent of Nazi boycotts of Jews on the eve of the Holocaust.5

http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/

Again I will say if you really agree with the TRUE goals of the BDS movement, by all means you are free to support them just as you are free to join ISIS if that floats your boat. But I am concerned that so many don't really UNDERSTAND the true goals of BDS.

I'm pretty sure that the obsessive anti-Jew/Israel posters on TV understand very well the true goals of BDS. They want to accomplish exact the same things.

"The global BDS crusade seeks the dismantling of Israel and its replacement with another Arab-majority state."

http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/

Again, Israel the eternal victim role...

The BDS movement is to force peacefully Israel to speed up the negotiations for humanitarian and political solutions with the Palestians.

Nothing more.

The BDS can cost 9 billion USD to the Israeli economy yearly.

"According to the report, the damage from an international boycott could range from approximately half a billion shekels ($130 million) per year and up to 500 people losing their jobs, to NIS 40 billion and 36,500 firings, depending on how widely implemented such a boycott becomes."

"Similarly, a report issued by the Rand Corporation last month indicated a loss of $9 billion annually and up to $50 billion over ten years if a peace deal with the Palestinians is not reached."

http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/44952/successful-bds-campaigns-could-cost-israel-9-billion-annually-jerusalem/#IXJMWYqPaww8mETd.97

This can have drastic consequences with their weak and expensive economy.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Thorgal

[Jingthing]

Eternal victim role?

You say Israel. You mean Jews. Do you think you're fooling anyone with the history of posting Nazi type racist links?

Dude I know you hate it ... of course a follower of Nazi rhetoric would hate it but with Israel the Jewish people can effectively finally fight back against the genocidal agenda of so many.

With a strong army ... with friendship with powerful nations and yes with information as this isn't a Hebrew speaking forum.

Thorgal I will now finally put you on ignore. There is no communication possible with someone who takes Nazi sites seriously.

You can please stop stalking me on my profile page as well?

Edited July 11, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Some more information on the true nature of the BDS movement which Hillary Clinton, the next USA president most likely, has properly condemned.

Warning ... there are Jews behind this information.

For those wanting to live both an Israel product free life and a Jewish anything free life, you've been properly warned:

Over and over again—whenever and wherever it emerged—the BDS Movement quickly threw

off any trappings of moderate criticism of Israeli policies. Its true essence matches Natan

Sharansky’s “three Ds” test for when legitimate criticism crosses the line into anti-Semitism:

FIRST: Double Standards - singling out Israel for criticism while ignoring the more egregious

behavior of major human rights abusers in the Arab and Muslim world and beyond.

SECOND: Demonization of Israel - distorting the Jewish State’s actions by means of insidious

and false comparisons with the Nazis and/or South Africa’s Apartheid regime.

THIRD: Delegitimization - when Israel’s fundamental right to exist is denied—alone among

all nations in the world—this too is anti-Semitism.

• BDS claims to be peaceful or to favor “nonviolent punitive measures” (while

refusing to denounce anti-Israel, anti-Jewish violence).

• BDS often downplays its programmatic commitment to the unlimited “right of

return” of millions of Palestinians, not born in Israel but claiming refugee status that

would spell the end of the Jewish State.

http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/%7B54d385e6-f1b9-4e9f-8e94-890c3e6dd277%7D/REPORT_313.PDF

Edited July 11, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

Some more information on the true nature of the BDS movement which Hillary Clinton, the next USA president most likely, has properly condemned.

Warning ... there are Jews behind this information.

For those wanting to live both an Israel product free life and a Jewish anything free life, you've been properly warned:

Over and over again—whenever and wherever it emerged—the BDS Movement quickly threw

off any trappings of moderate criticism of Israeli policies. Its true essence matches Natan

Sharansky’s “three Ds” test for when legitimate criticism crosses the line into anti-Semitism:

FIRST: Double Standards - singling out Israel for criticism while ignoring the more egregious

behavior of major human rights abusers in the Arab and Muslim world and beyond.

SECOND: Demonization of Israel - distorting the Jewish State’s actions by means of insidious

and false comparisons with the Nazis and/or South Africa’s Apartheid regime.

THIRD: Delegitimization - when Israel’s fundamental right to exist is denied—alone among

all nations in the world—this too is anti-Semitism.

• BDS claims to be peaceful or to favor “nonviolent punitive measures” (while

refusing to denounce anti-Israel, anti-Jewish violence).

• BDS often downplays its programmatic commitment to the unlimited “right of

return” of millions of Palestinians, not born in Israel but claiming refugee status that

would spell the end of the Jewish State.

http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/%7B54d385e6-f1b9-4e9f-8e94-890c3e6dd277%7D/REPORT_313.PDF

The same 3 flawed arguments used by the pro-Zionists on this forum.

A double standard would be to condemn XYZ in one country but praise XYZ somewhere else. Ignoring XYZ somewhere else is NOT a double standard, it's simply ignoring it because your particular goal is the XYZ that is causing your particular grief.

Your (and Sharansky's) argument means Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka should be vocal in condemning Prayuth or Kim Jong Il or face being accused of a double standard.

Demonisation. There is no doubt that some comparisons are valid. But because some comparisons are not valid, you and Sharansky will cry "insidious and false demonisation" at ALL comparisons.

Delegitimisation: Almost any criticism and action against Israel's crimes will be twisted and convoluted by you and Sharansky to ultimately bring about the end of Israel. If Israel is not left to it's own devices, it will lead to the end of Israel. Which is nonsense and simply condones all of Israel's crimes "for their survival".

[Scott]

Off-topic, baiting posts have been removed along with replies.

This thread is going off-topic and those who doing so may receive warnings and suspensions.

Stalking people is against forum rules.

[simple1]

I will ignore Thorgal and his obsessive discounting of sources written by Jews considering the history of the sources (including EXPLICIT Neo-Nazi racist sources) that he respects.

I never said the source wasn't a Jew and pro Israel. Jew Jew Jew, are we done with the silliness now?

And now another solid Jew Jew Jew source exposing the true Judeophobic, Israel destroying agenda of the BDS movement:

Observers who have followed the ongoing delegitimization campaign against Israel may have noticed that these BDS calls are not meant merely to pressure Israel toward a two-state solution. Instead, BDS is being used as a platform to advocate ending Israel’s existence as the nation-state of the Jewish people. As such, the BDS movement’s objectives parallel Hamas’ war goals.4 Michael Gove, Britain’s Conservative Party whip, labeled European BDS calls against Israel during the 2014 Hamas-Israel war as a “resurgent, mutating, lethal virus of anti-Semitism” reminiscent of Nazi boycotts of Jews on the eve of the Holocaust.5

http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/

Again I will say if you really agree with the TRUE goals of the BDS movement, by all means you are free to support them just as you are free to join ISIS if that floats your boat. But I am concerned that so many don't really UNDERSTAND the true goals of BDS.

Please enlighten what these "TRUE" goals are. Not with opinion pieces, not with anecdotes, not with emotional histrionics and not with illogical references to Iran.

Let me help you. Here is the BDS list of goals (and the link):

"The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by: Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall; Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194. - See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro#sthash.R4UUBoJz.dpuf".

At times your argument against BDS is that the results will bring about the end of the state of Israel. I have three things to say to that;

1. It is NOT their stated goal.

2. If by complying with the law, the state is endangered....do you condone continued criminality? Continued criminality against millions of innocent people!

3. The end of the state is your projection and is by no means a fact.

It's very convenient for you that you have me on "ignore", as with other members, because you have an excuse not to answer the inconvenient questions.

Never mind...other posters will read and, if they are not morally corrupt, will consider the questions honestly.

In current circumstance the objectives of the BDS movement would would lead to yet more violence and destablisation of the State of Israel with the consequential severe response by Israel; I cannot see the strategic benefit to the Palestinian cause.

I agree with another poster that the imposition of the State of Israel has led to a clusterf@#k for the prospect of peace in the region, but Israel ain't going anywhere. As UG has stated the Palestinian leadership, no matter the short term pain, must take a pragmatic approach to the realities on the ground for the betterment of their people. In turn the Israeli leadership should stop poking sticks into the hornets nest by building settlements and so on. I recall JT saying, with which I agree, there is lack of constructive leadership and policies on all sides of the divide.

Personally I do not know how a permanent resolution can be achieved in the current circumstances, but the BDS objectives, IMO, are not the way forward.

[Seastallion]

I will ignore Thorgal and his obsessive discounting of sources written by Jews considering the history of the sources (including EXPLICIT Neo-Nazi racist sources) that he respects.

I never said the source wasn't a Jew and pro Israel. Jew Jew Jew, are we done with the silliness now?

And now another solid Jew Jew Jew source exposing the true Judeophobic, Israel destroying agenda of the BDS movement:

Observers who have followed the ongoing delegitimization campaign against Israel may have noticed that these BDS calls are not meant merely to pressure Israel toward a two-state solution. Instead, BDS is being used as a platform to advocate ending Israel’s existence as the nation-state of the Jewish people. As such, the BDS movement’s objectives parallel Hamas’ war goals.4 Michael Gove, Britain’s Conservative Party whip, labeled European BDS calls against Israel during the 2014 Hamas-Israel war as a “resurgent, mutating, lethal virus of anti-Semitism” reminiscent of Nazi boycotts of Jews on the eve of the Holocaust.5

http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/

Again I will say if you really agree with the TRUE goals of the BDS movement, by all means you are free to support them just as you are free to join ISIS if that floats your boat. But I am concerned that so many don't really UNDERSTAND the true goals of BDS.

Please enlighten what these "TRUE" goals are. Not with opinion pieces, not with anecdotes, not with emotional histrionics and not with illogical references to Iran.

Let me help you. Here is the BDS list of goals (and the link):

"The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by: Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall; Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194. - See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro#sthash.R4UUBoJz.dpuf".

At times your argument against BDS is that the results will bring about the end of the state of Israel. I have three things to say to that;

1. It is NOT their stated goal.

2. If by complying with the law, the state is endangered....do you condone continued criminality? Continued criminality against millions of innocent people!

3. The end of the state is your projection and is by no means a fact.

It's very convenient for you that you have me on "ignore", as with other members, because you have an excuse not to answer the inconvenient questions.

Never mind...other posters will read and, if they are not morally corrupt, will consider the questions honestly.

In current circumstance the objectives of the BDS movement would would lead to yet more violence and destablisation of the State of Israel with the consequential severe response by Israel; I cannot see the strategic benefit to the Palestinian cause.

I agree with another poster that the imposition of the State of Israel has led to a clusterf@#k for the prospect of peace in the region, but Israel ain't going anywhere. As UG has stated the Palestinian leadership, no matter the short term pain, must take a pragmatic approach to the realities on the ground for the betterment of their people. In turn the Israeli leadership should stop poking sticks into the hornets nest by building settlements and so on. I recall JT saying, with which I agree, there is lack of constructive leadership and policies on all sides of the divide.

Personally I do not know how a permanent resolution can be achieved in the current circumstances, but the BDS objectives, IMO, are not the way forward.

Sanctions work. If governments won't apply sanctions to bring Israel to heel, then citizens-of-the-world imposed sanctions might. It's certainly worth a try, and if the predictions are correct and it means Israel loses out on tens of billions each year, then it should indeed work when the Israeli voters go to the polls. Ultimately, it's the voters who will decide the way forward.

[simple1]

Please enlighten what these "TRUE" goals are. Not with opinion pieces, not with anecdotes, not with emotional histrionics and not with illogical references to Iran.

Let me help you. Here is the BDS list of goals (and the link):

"The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by: Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall; Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194. - See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro#sthash.R4UUBoJz.dpuf".

At times your argument against BDS is that the results will bring about the end of the state of Israel. I have three things to say to that;

1. It is NOT their stated goal.

2. If by complying with the law, the state is endangered....do you condone continued criminality? Continued criminality against millions of innocent people!

3. The end of the state is your projection and is by no means a fact.

It's very convenient for you that you have me on "ignore", as with other members, because you have an excuse not to answer the inconvenient questions.

Never mind...other posters will read and, if they are not morally corrupt, will consider the questions honestly.

In current circumstance the objectives of the BDS movement would would lead to yet more violence and destablisation of the State of Israel with the consequential severe response by Israel; I cannot see the strategic benefit to the Palestinian cause.

I agree with another poster that the imposition of the State of Israel has led to a clusterf@#k for the prospect of peace in the region, but Israel ain't going anywhere. As UG has stated the Palestinian leadership, no matter the short term pain, must take a pragmatic approach to the realities on the ground for the betterment of their people. In turn the Israeli leadership should stop poking sticks into the hornets nest by building settlements and so on. I recall JT saying, with which I agree, there is lack of constructive leadership and policies on all sides of the divide.

Personally I do not know how a permanent resolution can be achieved in the current circumstances, but the BDS objectives, IMO, are not the way forward.

Sanctions work. If governments won't apply sanctions to bring Israel to heel, then citizens-of-the-world imposed sanctions might. It's certainly worth a try, and if the predictions are correct and it means Israel loses out on tens of billions each year, then it should indeed work when the Israeli voters go to the polls. Ultimately, it's the voters who will decide the way forward.

With respect I do not think Israel will dismantle the Wall & permit the Right of Return, no matter the sanctions. I believe JT, in today's world, it would be suicidal for the State of Israel.

[Seastallion]

Please enlighten what these "TRUE" goals are. Not with opinion pieces, not with anecdotes, not with emotional histrionics and not with illogical references to Iran.

Let me help you. Here is the BDS list of goals (and the link):

"The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by: Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall; Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194. - See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro#sthash.R4UUBoJz.dpuf".

At times your argument against BDS is that the results will bring about the end of the state of Israel. I have three things to say to that;

1. It is NOT their stated goal.

2. If by complying with the law, the state is endangered....do you condone continued criminality? Continued criminality against millions of innocent people!

3. The end of the state is your projection and is by no means a fact.

It's very convenient for you that you have me on "ignore", as with other members, because you have an excuse not to answer the inconvenient questions.

Never mind...other posters will read and, if they are not morally corrupt, will consider the questions honestly.

In current circumstance the objectives of the BDS movement would would lead to yet more violence and destablisation of the State of Israel with the consequential severe response by Israel; I cannot see the strategic benefit to the Palestinian cause.

I agree with another poster that the imposition of the State of Israel has led to a clusterf@#k for the prospect of peace in the region, but Israel ain't going anywhere. As UG has stated the Palestinian leadership, no matter the short term pain, must take a pragmatic approach to the realities on the ground for the betterment of their people. In turn the Israeli leadership should stop poking sticks into the hornets nest by building settlements and so on. I recall JT saying, with which I agree, there is lack of constructive leadership and policies on all sides of the divide.

Personally I do not know how a permanent resolution can be achieved in the current circumstances, but the BDS objectives, IMO, are not the way forward.

Sanctions work. If governments won't apply sanctions to bring Israel to heel, then citizens-of-the-world imposed sanctions might. It's certainly worth a try, and if the predictions are correct and it means Israel loses out on tens of billions each year, then it should indeed work when the Israeli voters go to the polls. Ultimately, it's the voters who will decide the way forward.

With respect I do not think Israel will dismantle the Wall & permit the Right of Return, no matter the sanctions. I believe JT, in today's world, it would be suicidal for the State of Israel.

They can build their wall on the 1967 borders, and retreat behind it. It would not be suicide at all because by withdrawing from their illegal occupation, they will gain support of the people who are now condemning them. Defining their country and sticking to it will give them the legitimacy that is required for America, the UK, the UN to all defend Israel against any major attack. I certainly would support the defence of Israel within it's proper borders as long as it has stopped it's incursions outside.

[Scott]

A baiting post removed.

[simple1]

In current circumstance the objectives of the BDS movement would would lead to yet more violence and destablisation of the State of Israel with the consequential severe response by Israel; I cannot see the strategic benefit to the Palestinian cause.

I agree with another poster that the imposition of the State of Israel has led to a clusterf@#k for the prospect of peace in the region, but Israel ain't going anywhere. As UG has stated the Palestinian leadership, no matter the short term pain, must take a pragmatic approach to the realities on the ground for the betterment of their people. In turn the Israeli leadership should stop poking sticks into the hornets nest by building settlements and so on. I recall JT saying, with which I agree, there is lack of constructive leadership and policies on all sides of the divide.

Personally I do not know how a permanent resolution can be achieved in the current circumstances, but the BDS objectives, IMO, are not the way forward.

Sanctions work. If governments won't apply sanctions to bring Israel to heel, then citizens-of-the-world imposed sanctions might. It's certainly worth a try, and if the predictions are correct and it means Israel loses out on tens of billions each year, then it should indeed work when the Israeli voters go to the polls. Ultimately, it's the voters who will decide the way forward.

With respect I do not think Israel will dismantle the Wall & permit the Right of Return, no matter the sanctions. I believe JT, in today's world, it would be suicidal for the State of Israel.

They can build their wall on the 1967 borders, and retreat behind it. It would not be suicide at all because by withdrawing from their illegal occupation, they will gain support of the people who are now condemning them. Defining their country and sticking to it will give them the legitimacy that is required for America, the UK, the UN to all defend Israel against any major attack. I certainly would support the defence of Israel within it's proper borders as long as it has stopped it's incursions outside.

Posts removed to enable reply.

Would an Israeli government ever accept such a proposition with the certain rejection by their electorate? If you look at the map on the brink of the deal between the Israelis and the Palestinians in 2008 doesn't look viable or have those negotiations been thrown out of the window, never to be revisited.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gSuc1ouCobk/TbLfzY1XOsI/AAAAAAAABZw/pmbDxlQEcJg/s1600/13map-popup-v2.jpg

Leaves outstanding the major issue of Right to Return, would a Palestinian government be able to sell giving up on this objective? All seems rather intractable at this stage, especially with the Israelis and Hamas getting ready for another conflict.