Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[Darkknight666]

I wonder if it would be possible to be able to find some actual news about this case without trawling through 30 odd pages (since the last actual news) of useless speculation and innuendo by the same posters about the same topics. Over and over every thread about this ends up the same. It would be nice to just be able to read some facts about this, now everyone will have to search through all this same old c#@p being churned over endlessly before they can actually read some real facts about this.

Maybe some of you should give it a rest?

How about a strictly news topic following the court case? No speculation.

I would like to stay updated, but don't have the patience to go through all the comments. A strictly news thread would be great for this.

Well it's TV policy that has this thread all mucked. They don't want to run another thread until the case continues so those who wish to discuss it have only this thread. It does big things down for those who want just the news.

[JLCrab]

From another popular Facebook site

guitar.jpg

Why does everything in this case lead back to Mon and the Toovichien family?

Because it happened practically on their front porch.

[Darkknight666]

Do you realize that 99% of the stuff written on these +122 Pages is not based on any facts at all but merely speculation? That when the FACTS are reported and linked to the Media (which is the only source of information we have whether it is true or false) it is shot down as nobody believes it as it does not fit into their mind set?

But do you attack any of them? No!

You attack someone who you don't agree with and called them a liar when you have zero FACTS to back that up. Just another Hypocrite.

You want FACTS, well here is one for you.

Drugs are in FACT related to many serious crimes.

So you can stick that in your pipe and smoke that to.

Sorry you're so confused, GB. The one 'fact' you offered in the above post, is a generalization.

Tony121's fixation on drugs may or may not have a bearing on finding who the real criminals are. They do serve a function though: to divest from the topic and waste peoples' time and calories responding to their suppositions clad in figments of imagination.

RTP have purposefully not mentioned drugs (zero mention of yaba) in this case, other than the Burmese guys were drinking alcohol.

RTP have not said a peep about....

>>> whether the mafia punks deal or are involved with drugs at their beach bars

>>> whether Sean has a drug dealing connection with Thai drug dealers at the bars (there's at least on FB entry alluding to that)

>>> what, if any, drugs the two victims were doing. RTP stated on the 2nd day of the investigation that they would not release that data (if they even tested for it or had it?) ....in respect for the victims' families.

....so let's let sleeping dogs lie, and try to focus on issues which relate to the crime.

I totally agree it is pure speculation. I also agree that drugs has no bearing as far as who committed these crimes. Who gave them a drug test that night to see what condition they were in? Or for that matter a breathalyzer? So if on one hand we are going to discredit drug use then we also have discredit their statement they were drunk as well. AS neither can be proven.

Also no talk about mafia involved with drugs or any of that on the Island. But there have been posts made here with claims they are readily available on the Island. I don't know as I have never been their, but if they are then someone must be selling them.

Personally, and as I said, this drug thing has merit with me. I can't speak for anyone else or John, but I just have a difficult time believing someone could do such a horrible thing like he did with two these 2 Victims, dead sober, or not high on drugs. Who ever it may be. I am sure it happens, but I am just having a hard time believing it.

As mentioned it was pure speculation, which personally I have see a lot here without someone getting attacked for it. If a person doesn't agree then this can open an interesting discussion. But when people start attacking others just because they don't share the same opinion, then start calling them names, this is where all this wasted time has gone. I don't think anyone here wants to see post after post of nothing but arguments. If people don't want to hear some else's different opinion then go to a blog where everyone is on the same page, and where nobody different.

The Ignore Option is always available for anyone to use. Nobody is forcing anyone here to read what they write. Nobody is on Trial here.

Of course everything here is speculation, And? The only reason I feel bad at all about what I'm posting is others who just want the news have to read hundreds of comments. Sorry about that guys but I don't much care. I take this personally being that I live here and have a daughter here. What happened to Hannah could easily happen to my daughter and that falls on Thailands head. There is no justice for anyone of this case isn't taken seriously and the real killer caught.

I have a bit of experience with drug users and therefor can offer an opinoin on this whole meth thing, Meth heads brains go 1 million MPH and the first priority is staying high, second priority is not going to Jail while counting crimes for more drugs. Only a long time addict with a HISTORY of sex abuse would be likely to commit a sexual crime while on meth. So, IMO of course, The slaying of David and Hannah wasn't a random druggie rape. I'm confident in saying this because an individual high on Meth wouldn't have taken David's clothes off and stacked them in a neat pile to try and misdirect investigators(lol).

A meth head would rape, kill, run. Kind of like that speedboat guy, eh? Only speedboat guy doesn't have enough influence.

You're looking at the actions, and reading the statements of RTP at face value. You're leaving out their massive errors in this case. You're purposely trying to derail anything members post that indicate anyone other than B2. You're also cherry picking stories to fit your narrative, which is all fine. I'd just like to know why you lurk this thread day in and day out trying to convince people it couldn't be corruption and ineptitude, No it has to be those damn druggies! Damn druggie Burmese!

So, where did the Blonde hair end up? CRUCIAL evidence, Gone. And where are the samples so they can be varafied? Standard protocol to keep evidence like that.. And it's gone, why?

Someone nefarious is pulling the strings here, and I really hope to see that end. Justice is what I want... True justice. Simple.

[Darkknight666]

From another popular Facebook site

guitar.jpg

And this means yet another member of this family that is "assisting" the investigation. If grandpa could go find the guitar, gramps could also drop a few pieces of evidence in the Burmese shack. I think if b2 are actually involved in any way, they were ordered to do whatever by the killer. Opinion of course.. Haha

[JLCrab]

From another popular Facebook site

guitar.jpg

Why does everything in this case lead back to Mon and the Toovichien family?

Because it happened practically on their front porch.

You mean it probably started on their front porch.........

No -- that's what you mean.

[Darkknight666]

From and earlier TV thread:

Meanwhile in Koh Tao, the headman Mr Woraphan Toovichien, 49, a village headman and owner of AC Bar, came out for the first time to defend his family name after what he said his family has become a social victim following allegations by a British tourist, Sean McAnna, accusing his brother Montriwat Toovichien, owner of In Touch resort and caretaker of AC Bar of threatening him with life to confess to the killing of the two British tourists.

The threat forced him to flee in fear, Sean told The Telegraph after returning to the UK.

Mr Woraphan who Mr Sean alleged to be a local Mafia said he was very upset to be implicated in the case.

He said he was ready to offer one million baht in cash if the police could implicate him or his brother and son to the murder of two British tourists.

He expressed his outrage at local police for their allegation that he was part of the murder, and also at international media for their coverage echoing local polices unsubstantiated claims as well as allegations that he is the islands mafia head who has been trying to obstruct the investigation.

He denounced the video footage taken at 4 am which officers claim to be that of his younger brother.

He also denounced claims that his son had any part of the crime as he is currently studying in Bangkok.

I would never protect anyone who has committed a crime, even if it was a close friend, my own brother or son. I am an honest and straight forward person. If the provincial police are able to obtain evidence proving this I would gladly give them a one million baht reward.

With regard to his connection to Sean McAnna, a Scotsman who posted a picture of his brother and another man on Facebook with claim that they were mafias who threatened to kill him and force him to confess to the murder of the two Britons, Mr Woraphan admitted that he did have a word with Sean as he suspected that he may have been involved with the murder.

But he portrayed our family as if we are Mafia, he said.

The media coverage has ruined my reputation. I have friends and people from a number of organisations calling me up to inquire on the coverage. Everyones wondering of these accusations. This continues to be a really bad experience for me and my family.

Mr Woraphan said on the night of the murder, one of his employee identified as Jok saw so much blood on the face and body of Mr Sean, so he helped to wash it out for him.

Later he found out that Mr Sean looked very close to a suspect on the CCTV footage, he then asked Sean about the blood and was told that it was caused by accident.

He also said as the DNA testing revealed later the DNA samples in the female victims body belonged to Asian men, forcing his employee to be reluctant to give further information to the police as they thought Sean was not involved.

How does he know how many suspects in an ongoing investigation? How does he KNOW DNA will clear his son? Because it's been bought and paid for! The man is trying way too hard here. The we have Nomsod demanding a apology for being a suspect. The arrogance and entitlement is strong in this article.

[glenmohr]

I acknowledge that some posters are disappointed about the amount of speculation, but that is exactly what this whole case is about: speculation.

It may interest some of the posters here to do a Google search of : Nick Pearson, Koh Tao. And then join up some of the dots.

[Tony121]

Sean claims he was meant to meet david but fell asleep and never went out, how would he have any evidence ? unless he was lying about being in bed all night, which then means there is a very good chance he was with David.

How Does Mon Know sean was meant to meet David ? or did he just randomly pick Sean ?

I believe it's plausible Sean went with David or showed up on scene a bit after david, hence the wound on his arm.. What I can safely assume from that is, David was a man of Honor, and Sean either a complete coward or connected in some way to the accused. He wasn't threatened with death for being a failed scape goat... He was threatened because he knows who is guilty or is close enough to identify the killers he needed to be warned away, either way, if the B2 killed Hannah and David, why would Sean flee the island? And claim he has been treated with death?

I cannot completely eliminate the possibility that Sean was lying about staying in bed all night. However, he was known on the island. I find it quite unlikely that he could have wandered around, meeting David, and no one he knew saw him, and he avoided all the CCTV cameras.

The answer to your question as to why Sean ran from the island is pretty obvious. He had upset Mon, and fully believed that the Koh Tao mafia was capable of killing him. His claim that Mon wanted to frame him for the murders may also be genuine. This was well before the Burmese kids were chosen as scapegoats. Do you really think Sean's panicked phone calls and Facebook post from the 7-11 the night before he left was some kind of act? That is not to say he does not know who the real killers are. He quite likely does. I doubt he has evidence. Speculation: after escaping from Thailand, he may have been given money to keep quiet.

So why randomly pick Sean someone who knew David ? What are the Odds of picking a random westerner and that person being connected to the victim ?

In this article Mon explains why he went after sean

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

He had blood on his Guitar in the interview with the media (he could of put his own blood on it on purpose as a cover story its almost as if he is showing it off)

[Gweiloman]

While waiting for the trial to resume, was just thinking of various scenarios that might have happened that might shed some light on some loose ends. Would appreciate if anyone would point out why such and such could not have happened

1) Sean and the B2 plus maybe one or two others and maybe even David (remember, Sean and David were supposed to meet up) were sitting on the beach playing guitar and singing songs. Sean would, I assume, be singing in English and this is what one witness reported

2) They hear some commotion further down the beach, 50 metres away and went to investigate.

3) They come across Hannah being harassed by some local thugs and tried to intervene

4) Sean was cut in the process (wound on arm) by the same weapon that was also used on David (the wounds look extremely similar)

5) Sean got scared and ran away while David stayed on to try and protect Hannah (Sean said something about David being honorable, how he (David) tried to protect her, etc etc)

6) In the meantime, the B2 were still around and not involved. They are only workers and physically small in stature so would not get involved in a fight involving big sized westerners and armed local thugs

7) Eventually David was overpowered and might have passed out at the water's edge

8) Due to a possible connection between the B2 and the "attackers", the B2 might have been instructed to restrain Hannah or to move her, accounting for their DNA on her body

9) Could be that one of the B2 might have picked up David's phone as an opportunist theft. On returning to their residence and sharing what happened with some of their friends, it might have been suggested that possessing the phone would not be a good idea so in a panic, they threw it away into the bushes without thinking that they would ever be investigated by the police. Don't mean to be condescending or superior but I would imagine that these young lads are still naive and inexperienced, weren't thinking properly in light of the adrenaline rush they must be feeling etc.

Is the above scenario plausible?

[BoristheBlade]

In the early days of this investigation a person of interest was referred to as the "candy man" locals and holidaying ferangs could go to the candyman to get all the narcotics they wanted.

The candy man was ably abetted by no other than Sean, who's party lifestyle brought him in to close contact with potential customers for the said candyman.

[thailandchilli]

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

Looking at this article again after so long it brings to mind again the massive contradictions:

Here's what I'm looking at presently:

A suspect caught by the surveillance camera of a resort wore pants and also had tattoo, according to the disclosure earlier by Montriwat Toovichien, the brother of the village headman, when he was questioned by the police as a suspect after he looked like the man on the tape. He was cleared when he had no tattoo.

Where is this cctv of a suspect with tattoo? What resort was it taken from. Could it be a select piece of cctv released by Mon from his resort? More missing cctv that we should know about? How about the foreign woman on cctv caught running from the scene, any chance of actually releasing that at some point? Or has it been lost or used up somewhere along the way.

Since the killings, police have focused on finding Asian men of 170 centimetres tall and with a 40 shoe size, based on surveillance camera footage and footprints on Sairee beach where the couple died.

Yes this was widely reported in the investigation that it was likely to be someone over 170 cms tall. There was photographic studies done that measured the height of the running man suspect on cctv by relative nearby doors, windows etc which concluded he was 170 cms tall or just over. The B2 are midgets with one under 5ft which is under 152 cms and the other 5ft 1inch about 155 cms

The B2 are not the people identified above so who are the people identified above in the cctv, there's the key to the real killers.

[glenmohr]

I acknowledge that some posters are disappointed about the amount of speculation, but that is exactly what this whole case is about: speculation.

It may interest some of the posters here to do a Google search of : Nick Pearson, Koh Tao. And then join up some of the dots.

[balo]

I rented a workshop for seven years surroended by attached rooms which were rented to workers from Myanmar. Judging by the 3 monthly police raids some of them were here illegally. They would be taken away and usually back in a few days. I was warned that it was a bad idea to set up my workshop in such close proximity as they were desperate and highly likely to steal stuff from me. I talked to them and asked their head if he would call me if he ever heard any break ins etc while I wasn't there. In short in seven years I didn't have one problem. In fact they would run and help putting stuff away when havy rainstorms etc. I often left valuable stuff around and they would take care of it.

One poster on here wants to generalise and is saying Burmese workers are more likely to take yaba. I can only speak from my own experience of 2,536 days been in the midst of approx 120 Burmese workers and never coming accross a bad person. On the contrary they often invited me to join them and chat. Good conversations!!!

Sadly this is the way a great deal of Thais see the Burmese, there's not a lot of compassion lost there. Tony121 seems vehemently determined to further push that unfavourable image of them.

Similar to Kev, although I was seriously threatened once inside Myanmar, I live full time near an enclave of Burmese in Thailand and my own experience is that they are the nicest of people underscored by the further fact they must keep their heads down which they do. I was always interested in the fact they all speak much better English than the Thais do which is an off topic remark, I know.

Agreed in full. All Burmese I know working in Thailand are fully aware of their untermensch-status and therefore choose to spend as much of their time working and doing OT, save money (eg. one guy I know works 9H during the day and then another 4H at night, his wife too). The Burmese community is very aware of their vulnerable scapegoat position. There are Burmese criminals and killers, sure, but as written above, I'd also feel safer with a bunch of Burmese workers around me than with a pack of Thai teenage boys. Aliens tend to sympathise with eachother ;-)

Just a comment about died hair. Asians sometimes ask for blond stripes in their dark hair. If it was a few blond stripes in the Burmese boys hair it would be difficult to spot on a poor CCTV image. The hair would still look dark from distance, especially at night.

[Tony121]

I rented a workshop for seven years surroended by attached rooms which were rented to workers from Myanmar. Judging by the 3 monthly police raids some of them were here illegally. They would be taken away and usually back in a few days. I was warned that it was a bad idea to set up my workshop in such close proximity as they were desperate and highly likely to steal stuff from me. I talked to them and asked their head if he would call me if he ever heard any break ins etc while I wasn't there. In short in seven years I didn't have one problem. In fact they would run and help putting stuff away when havy rainstorms etc. I often left valuable stuff around and they would take care of it.

One poster on here wants to generalise and is saying Burmese workers are more likely to take yaba. I can only speak from my own experience of 2,536 days been in the midst of approx 120 Burmese workers and never coming accross a bad person. On the contrary they often invited me to join them and chat. Good conversations!!!

Sadly this is the way a great deal of Thais see the Burmese, there's not a lot of compassion lost there. Tony121 seems vehemently determined to further push that unfavourable image of them.

Similar to Kev, although I was seriously threatened once inside Myanmar, I live full time near an enclave of Burmese in Thailand and my own experience is that they are the nicest of people underscored by the further fact they must keep their heads down which they do. I was always interested in the fact they all speak much better English than the Thais do which is an off topic remark, I know.

Again totally agree with you the burmese are some of the nice people but there are bad ones as well, but ts seems ok for all the tinfoilers to cast a racist profile on Mon and NS,

On an island where nearly all the workforce is Burmese But there is no way a Burmese did it ? thats Racist.

Another tinfoiler theory is that she was seen with a thai man (how did the person know he was Thai and not burmese) ?

[StealthEnergiser]

While waiting for the trial to resume, was just thinking of various scenarios that might have happened that might shed some light on some loose ends. Would appreciate if anyone would point out why such and such could not have happened

1) Sean and the B2 plus maybe one or two others and maybe even David (remember, Sean and David were supposed to meet up) were sitting on the beach playing guitar and singing songs. Sean would, I assume, be singing in English and this is what one witness reported

2) They hear some commotion further down the beach, 50 metres away and went to investigate.

3) They come across Hannah being harassed by some local thugs and tried to intervene

4) Sean was cut in the process (wound on arm) by the same weapon that was also used on David (the wounds look extremely similar)

5) Sean got scared and ran away while David stayed on to try and protect Hannah (Sean said something about David being honorable, how he (David) tried to protect her, etc etc)

6) In the meantime, the B2 were still around and not involved. They are only workers and physically small in stature so would not get involved in a fight involving big sized westerners and armed local thugs

7) Eventually David was overpowered and might have passed out at the water's edge

8) Due to a possible connection between the B2 and the "attackers", the B2 might have been instructed to restrain Hannah or to move her, accounting for their DNA on her body

9) Could be that one of the B2 might have picked up David's phone as an opportunist theft. On returning to their residence and sharing what happened with some of their friends, it might have been suggested that possessing the phone would not be a good idea so in a panic, they threw it away into the bushes without thinking that they would ever be investigated by the police. Don't mean to be condescending or superior but I would imagine that these young lads are still naive and inexperienced, weren't thinking properly in light of the adrenaline rush they must be feeling etc.

Is the above scenario plausible?

something I was thinking about is that some people mentioned here face was smashed so bad to hide a bullet shot which seem very possible going on photos of splatter on rocks.

But I also though that maybe one of these low lifes ejaculated in her mouth she may have even bitten him and this caused them to do so much damage so the criminals D.N.A could not be found.

to add a bit more it looks her body was put in a position that would make a person think oral sex was not involved.

[thailandchilli]

Similar to Kev, although I was seriously threatened once inside Myanmar, I live full time near an enclave of Burmese in Thailand and my own experience is that they are the nicest of people underscored by the further fact they must keep their heads down which they do. I was always interested in the fact they all speak much better English than the Thais do which is an off topic remark, I know.

Agreed in full. All Burmese I know working in Thailand are fully aware of their untermensch-status and therefore choose to spend as much of their time working and doing OT, save money (eg. one guy I know works 9H during the day and then another 4H at night, his wife too). The Burmese community is very aware of their vulnerable scapegoat position. There are Burmese criminals and killers, sure, but as written above, I'd also feel safer with a bunch of Burmese workers around me than with a pack of Thai teenage boys. Aliens tend to sympathise with eachother ;-)

Just a comment about died hair. Asians sometimes ask for blond stripes in their dark hair. If it was a few blond stripes in the Burmese boys hair it would be difficult to spot on a poor CCTV image. The hair would still look dark from distance, especially at night.

Totally agreed that trying to look for what the RTP described as blond hair which maybe a different perception to what I call blonde hair on a grainy cctv at night from a distance is not anywhere near reliable enough to conclude especially when the cctv is black and white.

But don't forget the much clearer cctv they have of the B2 in the shop buying cigarettes, this is clear colour and without doubt in my opinion shows jet black hair. In any case this mysterious hair in no longer available for whatever reason, lost, used up whatever they RTP want to say.

[Tony121]

I rented a workshop for seven years surroended by attached rooms which were rented to workers from Myanmar. Judging by the 3 monthly police raids some of them were here illegally. They would be taken away and usually back in a few days. I was warned that it was a bad idea to set up my workshop in such close proximity as they were desperate and highly likely to steal stuff from me. I talked to them and asked their head if he would call me if he ever heard any break ins etc while I wasn't there. In short in seven years I didn't have one problem. In fact they would run and help putting stuff away when havy rainstorms etc. I often left valuable stuff around and they would take care of it.

One poster on here wants to generalise and is saying Burmese workers are more likely to take yaba. I can only speak from my own experience of 2,536 days been in the midst of approx 120 Burmese workers and never coming accross a bad person. On the contrary they often invited me to join them and chat. Good conversations!!!

Sadly this is the way a great deal of Thais see the Burmese, there's not a lot of compassion lost there. Tony121 seems vehemently determined to further push that unfavourable image of them.

Similar to Kev, although I was seriously threatened once inside Myanmar, I live full time near an enclave of Burmese in Thailand and my own experience is that they are the nicest of people underscored by the further fact they must keep their heads down which they do. I was always interested in the fact they all speak much better English than the Thais do which is an off topic remark, I know.

Agreed in full. All Burmese I know working in Thailand are fully aware of their untermensch-status and therefore choose to spend as much of their time working and doing OT, save money (eg. one guy I know works 9H during the day and then another 4H at night, his wife too). The Burmese community is very aware of their vulnerable scapegoat position. There are Burmese criminals and killers, sure, but as written above, I'd also feel safer with a bunch of Burmese workers around me than with a pack of Thai teenage boys. Aliens tend to sympathise with eachother ;-)

Great point only problem is B2 don't seem to fit in that category there not going back to the camp after a hard days work,

There out on there bike buying booze and fags and hanging out on the beach ALL FACT, you would think they would want to go back home and rest after a hard days work ?

and I don't see what bunch of teenage boys you would like to spend time with has any bearing on the case.

[thailandchilli]

Sadly this is the way a great deal of Thais see the Burmese, there's not a lot of compassion lost there. Tony121 seems vehemently determined to further push that unfavourable image of them.

Similar to Kev, although I was seriously threatened once inside Myanmar, I live full time near an enclave of Burmese in Thailand and my own experience is that they are the nicest of people underscored by the further fact they must keep their heads down which they do. I was always interested in the fact they all speak much better English than the Thais do which is an off topic remark, I know.

Agreed in full. All Burmese I know working in Thailand are fully aware of their untermensch-status and therefore choose to spend as much of their time working and doing OT, save money (eg. one guy I know works 9H during the day and then another 4H at night, his wife too). The Burmese community is very aware of their vulnerable scapegoat position. There are Burmese criminals and killers, sure, but as written above, I'd also feel safer with a bunch of Burmese workers around me than with a pack of Thai teenage boys. Aliens tend to sympathise with eachother ;-)

Great point only problem is B2 don't seem to fit in that category there not going back to the camp after a hard days work,

There out on there bike buying booze and fags and hanging out on the beach ALL FACT, you would think they would want to go back home and rest after a hard days work ?

and I don't see what bunch of teenage boys you would like to spend time with has any bearing on the case.

Do some research and you'll discover it was their night off from work. As I understand it this is only once or twice a month for Burmese workers. So splashing out on some fags and a couple of beers is hardly unusual. Believe it or not they do have a right to go out and enjoy themselves.

[DLang]

So basically.

NS and/or some of his bouncer thugs/mates had a go off Hannah, likely with a date-rape pill. Possibly feeling rejected by her, on their island, tough pill for their ego to swallow.

David came along and was done with a fistblade attack, and pushed/fell into the sea.

Hannah was then hit in the head with the hoe.

Sean may have been present with David around the time of it happening, but did not go over to the commotion or had left him before.

Sounds about the most plausible case from all the evidence.

[Tony121]

So basically.

NS and/or some of his bouncer thugs/mates had a go off Hannah, likely with a date-rape pill. Possibly feeling rejected by her, on their island, tough pill for their ego to swallow.

David came along and was done with a fistblade attack, and pushed/fell into the sea.

Hannah was then hit in the head with the hoe.

Sean may have been present with David around the time of it happening, but did not go over to the commotion or had left him before.

Sounds about the most plausible case from all the evidence.

Case closed

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tinfoil+hat

[DLang]

But don't forget the much clearer cctv they have of the B2 in the shop buying cigarettes, this is clear colour and without doubt in my opinion shows jet black hair. In any case this mysterious hair in no longer available for whatever reason, lost, used up whatever they RTP want to say.

One point I remember, which hasn't seem to be mentioned is the T-Shirt one of them had on that night, seen from the CCTV.

He had the exact same T-Shirt on 1-2 weeks later when he was arrested by the police. Looking pristine....

Nobody, nobody, not even the sad trolls think that the B2 are responsible for the savage rape and double murder.

[Darkknight666]

While waiting for the trial to resume, was just thinking of various scenarios that might have happened that might shed some light on some loose ends. Would appreciate if anyone would point out why such and such could not have happened

1) Sean and the B2 plus maybe one or two others and maybe even David (remember, Sean and David were supposed to meet up) were sitting on the beach playing guitar and singing songs. Sean would, I assume, be singing in English and this is what one witness reported

2) They hear some commotion further down the beach, 50 metres away and went to investigate.

3) They come across Hannah being harassed by some local thugs and tried to intervene

4) Sean was cut in the process (wound on arm) by the same weapon that was also used on David (the wounds look extremely similar)

5) Sean got scared and ran away while David stayed on to try and protect Hannah (Sean said something about David being honorable, how he (David) tried to protect her, etc etc)

6) In the meantime, the B2 were still around and not involved. They are only workers and physically small in stature so would not get involved in a fight involving big sized westerners and armed local thugs

7) Eventually David was overpowered and might have passed out at the water's edge

8) Due to a possible connection between the B2 and the "attackers", the B2 might have been instructed to restrain Hannah or to move her, accounting for their DNA on her body

9) Could be that one of the B2 might have picked up David's phone as an opportunist theft. On returning to their residence and sharing what happened with some of their friends, it might have been suggested that possessing the phone would not be a good idea so in a panic, they threw it away into the bushes without thinking that they would ever be investigated by the police. Don't mean to be condescending or superior but I would imagine that these young lads are still naive and inexperienced, weren't thinking properly in light of the adrenaline rush they must be feeling etc.

Is the above scenario plausible?

My belief on what may have happened that terrible night on KT is pretty close to this. I don't believe B2 saw David and Hannah in Intimacy and commuted this crime due to their "Lust". It simply does not fit. I don't rule out that the B2 may have been used by the actual killer S they're only a tiny step above being slaves. They could have been ordered to do all kinds of things and who could help them? Nobody. And why do I think it near impossible it was a migrant worker or group of them, Well the actions of the police prove (IMO) that whoever is behind the murders cannot be found out, up until this point. The attention from the west may cause major issues and the Killer may end up being dug out of their hole to face the music.

Lastly, it would take more than two men to simultaneously incapacitate Hannah and David, and with only one Hoe... That makes it even harder to believe B2 could overpower them. . And why do much interest from Mon Voochein? At the scene, confronting Sean, giving the first interview to cops out of the whole family?

Edited:typos

[stickylies]

and I don't see what bunch of teenage boys you would like to spend time with has any bearing on the case.

NOT spend time with...

as for bearing with the case, I have seen more vicious fighting done by Thai boys than by Burmese. happy gatherings that turn out in pure slaughter as little as 2 hours (and several bottles of alcohol) later; 5-6 or more guys kicking and hitting 1 guy (or girl!), empty bottles getting involved, bricks, knives, even guns, etc. And this was not in Bangkok but in this utter-low-key coastal town.

[JLCrab]

Those are some interesting scenarios above. However, shortly after the murders took place, I asked, if the locals were involved, why did they not just get a long-tail boat, some rope, and a bunch of heavy cement blocks and dump the weighted-down bodies way out in the gulf.

The answer was generally: Too many people would know.

Oh well, ...

[Gweiloman]

So basically.

NS and/or some of his bouncer thugs/mates had a go off Hannah, likely with a date-rape pill. Possibly feeling rejected by her, on their island, tough pill for their ego to swallow.

David came along and was done with a fistblade attack, and pushed/fell into the sea.

Hannah was then hit in the head with the hoe.

Sean may have been present with David around the time of it happening, but did not go over to the commotion or had left him before.

Sounds about the most plausible case from all the evidence.

Sean could well have been with David. That could account for the very similar wound on his arm which looks inflicted by the same weapon used on David

[stickylies]

shortly after the murders took place, I asked, if the locals were involved, why did they not just get a long-tail boat, some rope, and a bunch of heavy cement blocks and dump the weighted-down bodies way out in the gulf.

The answer was generally: Too many people would know.

Forget it JLCrab; It's Thailand

[stickylies]

In addition to above:

The answer was generally: Too many people would know.

Hubris maybe?

[JLCrab]

Those are some interesting scenarios above. However, shortly after the murders took place, I asked, if the locals were involved, why did they not just get a long-tail boat, some rope, and a bunch of heavy cement blocks and dump the weighted-down bodies way out in the gulf.

The answer was generally: Too many people would know.

Oh well, ...

Could be something to do with brain power, but some dooooo know about cash power eh...

Yes however if you ask who may be likely to murder two UK tourists and leave the bodies near the front porch of a Kho Tao family's business one might say such persons might be those from one of the other four families on the island.

[Darkknight666]

Those are some interesting scenarios above. However, shortly after the murders took place, I asked, if the locals were involved, why did they not just get a long-tail boat, some rope, and a bunch of heavy cement blocks and dump the weighted-down bodies way out in the gulf.

The answer was generally: Too many people would know.

Oh well, ...

That is a good question, if it were getting into the early morning hours and the sun was nearing and moon full... Maybe not enough cover to dispose of them... The Assailants had to adapt and find out another way to make this go away. Which leads to another thing I find interesting, whoever set the scene up before the cops were called must have felt pretty confident that the story the concocted would be sufficient enough for the local police (and that's not exactly arrogant, seeing how many Farangs commit suicide, with hands tied behind back).... They thought for sure the local cops would see the evidence and ring it up as it was presented.. Boy, were they close to the mark. Problem is now, very few people can believe the Police narrative and the way the authorities are handling it is reminiscent of the other high profile crimes that are swept under the rug in this category. When police asked Nomsod for his DNA and it took a week it shows who is in control. If you're a suspect in a double homicide you report as ordered, or an arrest warrant Is issued because that's the way this is supposed to work.

The collusion is blindingly obvious, Why would this be happening on behalf of B2? Why the "missing" hair, CCTV, DNA etc etc.?

[Gweiloman]

So basically.

NS and/or some of his bouncer thugs/mates had a go off Hannah, likely with a date-rape pill. Possibly feeling rejected by her, on their island, tough pill for their ego to swallow.

David came along and was done with a fistblade attack, and pushed/fell into the sea.

Hannah was then hit in the head with the hoe.

Sean may have been present with David around the time of it happening, but did not go over to the commotion or had left him before.

Sounds about the most plausible case from all the evidence.

Case closed

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tinfoil+hat

DLang's version sounds a lot more plausible and credible than two migrant workers high on beer and yaba taking on a westerner twice their size.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-david-miller-4301833

Ian Miller said “it’s quite likely David was stepping in to assist a girl in trouble. That would be absolutely in his character”

He (Sean) posted: “I first said I knew he tried to save her. That was a guess, but now I’ve seen he didn’t leave with that girl he must have stumbled upon what happened and tried to fight them off. That’s the Dave I loved.”

Thai detectives yesterday confirmed they are investigating the Sunday Mirror’s exclusive report that they were murdered after a row with a local gangster.

It’s believed Hannah, from Hemsby, Norfolk, rejected his advances and he may have killed her in a fit of anger and jealousy.