Amid detente with Hamas, Israel says 2 citizens held in Gaza

[webfact]

Amid detente with Hamas, Israel says 2 citizens held in Gaza
By JOSEF FEDERMAN

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel on Thursday said that two of its citizens are being held captive in the Gaza Strip, an announcement that brought back bitter memories of the case of an Israeli soldier who was captured and imprisoned for five years by the Hamas militant group.

But circumstances have changed dramatically since Gilad Schalit's release in a 2011 prisoner swap, and the case announced Thursday could provide an important test of a new fragile detente that has emerged between Israel and Hamas since their devastating war last year. A relatively subdued reaction in Israel reflected the new reality, though Hamas is likely to push for a new round of prisoner releases by Israel before it returns the two men.

Israeli defense officials identified one of the men as Avraham Mengistu, an Israeli of Ethiopian descent in his late 20s.

According to COGAT, the defense body that handles civilian issues with the Palestinians, Mengistu disappeared after he "independently" crossed the border fence and entered Gaza on Sept. 7, two weeks after the end of last year's war.

It gave no further details on why he had crossed into Gaza, though Israeli media said he had been distraught at the time of his disappearance.

COGAT said the second man was a Bedouin Arab citizen from southern Israel. It refused to identify him or say how long he had been in Gaza or how he got there. Officials also would not say which group had him in custody.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he held Hamas, which has ruled Gaza since seizing control of the territory in 2007, responsible for the fate of both men. Netanyahu said Israel was working to free them and that he had appointed a representative to deal with the matter.

"Yesterday I spoke with the parents and siblings of Avraham Mengistu and I told them that from the moment the incident became known, we have spared no effort to return him to Israel," Netanyahu said, urging the international community to "issue a clear call" for their release.

But there were no threats of action against Hamas, in contrast to a bruising military campaign that followed Hamas' capture of Schalit in a 2006 cross-border raid — or more recently, the arrests of scores of Hamas supporters after the deadly abduction of three Israeli teens in the West Bank last year.

The kidnapping set off a string of events that culminated in a 50-day war that killed more than 2,200 Palestinians in Gaza and 73 people on the Israeli side. It was their third war since the Hamas takeover.

Since then, Israel and Hamas have largely honored a cease-fire and even reached some unspoken understandings to preserve quiet, a reflection of the shared threat to both sides by Gaza's Salafi militants inspired by the Islamic State extremist group.

Notably absent on Thursday were also the type of celebrations in Gaza that had accompanied previous kidnappings of Israelis. A Hamas spokesman, Salah Bardawil, said he had no information about the two missing Israelis.

"Even if it is true, we don't have instructions to talk about it," he said.

The different circumstances also contributed to the subdued reactions. Where Schalit and the teens were captured in military-style operations, the latest disappearances appeared accidental.

"It's a completely different situation," said Gershon Baskin, an Israeli activist who helped mediate the Schalit exchange deal, in which Israel freed more than 1,000 prisoners.

"They're not dealing with a valuable asset" like a captured soldier, Baskin said. "It's not the same high-value bargaining card."

Still, a protracted round of negotiations appears likely.

A senior Hamas official said that as a precondition for negotiations, the group would seek the release of nearly 60 militants released by Israel in the Schalit deal and then re-arrested last year after the three Israeli teens were kidnapped.

Hamas will also seek the release of some of the thousands of Palestinians held by Israel, he said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was discussing the group's internal deliberations.

While Israel said nothing about the Bedouin man held in Gaza, the Hamas official claimed he had served in the Israeli military and was considered a prisoner.

Mkhaimar Abusada, a professor of political science at Gaza's Al-Azhar University, said a possible deal could include steps to strengthen the cease-fire. "I think the swap would be part of a long-term truce, five years or more," he said.

One of the first issues could be determining the fate of Mengistu. The Hamas official said Mengistu had walked into Gaza and appeared to have "psychological" problems. He said Mengistu told interrogators in the coastal strip that he did not want to go back to Israel and then left Gaza through a smuggling tunnel into Egypt in hopes of ultimately returning to Ethiopia.

COGAT, however, said it had "credible intelligence" that Mengistu was being held "against his will" by Hamas.

Israeli Channel 2 TV said Mengistu arrived at an Israeli beach near the Gaza border on the evening of Sept. 7, left his bag behind and crossed into Gaza through a breach in the border fence that was apparently made by Israeli tanks during the 2014 war.

"This is a difficult humanitarian matter, because my brother is not in the best of health," Ilan Mengistu told reporters. He did not elaborate, but Israeli Channel 2 TV said Mengistu was distraught following the death of another brother.

Israeli Channel 10 broadcast an interview with a man it identified as Mengistu's father. "They didn't do anything," Haili Mengistu said. "Where is my son?"

While Mengistu's disappearance had been well known inside Israel's Ethiopian community, Israel had barred publication of the incident for several months.

Israeli media had lobbied hard for permission to publish details on the case, putting pressure on the government to release information.

Khaled Mashaal, the head of Hamas' political bureau, also may have forced Israel's hand by telling a London newspaper this week that Israel had asked Hamas through a European mediator to release "two soldiers and two bodies." Israeli officials have said that the remains of two soldiers killed in combat last summer are held by Hamas.

Israeli lawmaker Yaakov Peri, a former director of the Shin Bet intelligence agency and an ex- government coordinator for prisoner of war issues, said that going public may have hurt the negotiations but that talks could nonetheless succeed in the current climate.

"Calculations are a little bit less emotional. And it's good. It's good for the negotiations, and I am sure it will affect the outcome," he said.
___

Associated Press writers Daniel Estrin and Tia Goldenberg in Jerusalem, Mohammed Daraghmeh in Ramallah, West Bank, and Fares Akram in Gaza City, Gaza Strip, contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-07-10

[geriatrickid]

This is going to be interesting. Let's see if the armchair socialists rally to help a mentally disturbed ethnic African who likes beer and a muslim Bedouin.

Interesting that little is said about the arab hostage.

Well,someone should tell those Gaza peple that Black lives matter. Arab lives matter.

[RustBucket]

It was their third war since the Hamas takeover.

Wars?

Those were battles, not wars. If Israel really went to war with Hamas, then Hamas would no longer exist.

[RockyBeerbelly]

Well,someone should tell those Gaza peple that Black lives matter. Arab lives matter.

Well Hamas clearly understands that the life of an African Jew or an Israeli Bedouin matters, since they allegedly abducted these people for negotiation purposes with Israel.

It is made brilliantly clear again that the fascist Israeli regime doesn't give a toss about an African Jew or an Israeli Bedouin, otherwise they would have started their usual murdering of innocent Palestinians already (as a so-called retaliation). They are of course both not Israelis of Aryan decent....and we all know that there is only one race which counts in (Likud) Israel!

I wouldn’t be surprised if these 2 abducted people will be either killed (hopefully not) or freed soon. Either way Israel doesn't care….

[ABCer]

Well,someone should tell those Gaza peple that Black lives matter. Arab lives matter.

Well Hamas clearly understands that the life of an African Jew or an Israeli Bedouin matters, since they allegedly abducted these people for negotiation purposes with Israel.

It is made brilliantly clear again that the fascist Israeli regime doesn't give a toss about an African Jew or an Israeli Bedouin, otherwise they would have started their usual murdering of innocent Palestinians already (as a so-called retaliation). They are of course both not Israelis of Aryan decent....and we all know that there is only one race which counts in (Likud) Israel!

I wouldn’t be surprised if these 2 abducted people will be either killed (hopefully not) or freed soon. Either way Israel doesn't care….

Fantastic!

No proof is required!

No logic is present even by omission!

It is so because I say so!

And who am I?

A Rocky Head And A Beer Belly!

I am sure I qualify for a flamethrower by this my post but not this Barstool Spinoza Thinker!

Where are our Mods when we need them?

[ABCer]

OK, chilled out and going back to OP.

If what Israel says.... is true (?) the following questions come to mind:

1) Where why and under what circumstances these two black Israelis were captured?

2) How are negotiations for release of live Hamas militants and terrorists held by Israelis compare to Hamas holding onto remains (corpses?) of two Israeli soldiers.

3) If the release of 2 (two) live Israelis as usual will be connected to demands of release of hundreds if not thousands of Hamas-ians - why this ratio is not known to UN dealing with "Disproportionate use of force by Israelis"?

To put it simple: "How many Arabs is one Jew worth?" Even a dead Jew?

Hope I'm not inflaming your thinking process.

Edited July 10, 2015 by ABCer

[ggold]

OK, chilled out and going back to OP.

If what Israel says.... is true (?) the following questions come to mind:

1) Where why and under what circumstances these two black Israelis were captured?

2) How are negotiations for release of live Hamas militants and terrorists held by Israelis compare to Hamas holding onto remains (corpses?) of two Israeli soldiers.

3) If the release of 2 (two) live Israelis as usual will be connected to demands of release of hundreds if not thousands of Hamas-ians - why this ratio is not known to UN dealing with "Disproportionate use of force by Israelis"?

To put it simple: "How many Arabs is one Jew worth?" Even a dead Jew?

Hope I'm not inflaming your thinking process.

To put it simple: "How many Arabs is one Jew worth?" Even a dead Jew?

Statistically 28.76 to 1

[Seastallion]

This is going to be interesting. Let's see if the armchair socialists rally to help a mentally disturbed ethnic African who likes beer and a muslim Bedouin.

2812859918-e1436420706739-635x357.jpg

Interesting that little is said about the arab hostage.

Well,someone should tell those Gaza peple that Black lives matter. Arab lives matter.

""They're not dealing with a valuable asset" like a captured soldier, Baskin said. "It's not the same high-value bargaining card.""

I think you'll find that the "subdued reaction in Israel" is precisely because one is black and one is Arab.

[RockyBeerbelly]

OK, chilled out and going back to OP.

If what Israel says.... is true (?) the following questions come to mind:

1) Where why and under what circumstances these two black Israelis were captured?

2) How are negotiations for release of live Hamas militants and terrorists held by Israelis compare to Hamas holding onto remains (corpses?) of two Israeli soldiers.

3) If the release of 2 (two) live Israelis as usual will be connected to demands of release of hundreds if not thousands of Hamas-ians - why this ratio is not known to UN dealing with "Disproportionate use of force by Israelis"?

To put it simple: "How many Arabs is one Jew worth?" Even a dead Jew?

Hope I'm not inflaming your thinking process.

To put it simple: "How many Arabs is one Jew worth?" Even a dead Jew?

Statistically 28.76 to 1

Based on last year the ratio is even slightly higher 30.55 to 1

Edited July 10, 2015 by RockyBeerbelly

[ggold]

OK, chilled out and going back to OP.

If what Israel says.... is true (?) the following questions come to mind:

1) Where why and under what circumstances these two black Israelis were captured?

2) How are negotiations for release of live Hamas militants and terrorists held by Israelis compare to Hamas holding onto remains (corpses?) of two Israeli soldiers.

3) If the release of 2 (two) live Israelis as usual will be connected to demands of release of hundreds if not thousands of Hamas-ians - why this ratio is not known to UN dealing with "Disproportionate use of force by Israelis"?

To put it simple: "How many Arabs is one Jew worth?" Even a dead Jew?

Hope I'm not inflaming your thinking process.

To put it simple: "How many Arabs is one Jew worth?" Even a dead Jew?

Statistically 28.76 to 1

Based on last year the ratio is even slightly higher 30.55 to 1

Your figures are based on wounded as well, I was basing it on deaths alone. Of course when it comes to swaps it is even higher than 30.55 to one. I think the point is Arab lives don't matter to Arabs where Israeli lives matter to Israel. It also shows the Arabs don't have a hope of achieving their aims.

[RockyBeerbelly]

OK, chilled out and going back to OP.

If what Israel says.... is true (?) the following questions come to mind:

1) Where why and under what circumstances these two black Israelis were captured?

2) How are negotiations for release of live Hamas militants and terrorists held by Israelis compare to Hamas holding onto remains (corpses?) of two Israeli soldiers.

3) If the release of 2 (two) live Israelis as usual will be connected to demands of release of hundreds if not thousands of Hamas-ians - why this ratio is not known to UN dealing with "Disproportionate use of force by Israelis"?

To put it simple: "How many Arabs is one Jew worth?" Even a dead Jew?

Hope I'm not inflaming your thinking process.

To put it simple: "How many Arabs is one Jew worth?" Even a dead Jew?

Statistically 28.76 to 1

Based on last year the ratio is even slightly higher 30.55 to 1

Your figures are based on wounded as well, I was basing it on deaths alone. Of course when it comes to swaps it is even higher than 30.55 to one. I think the point is Arab lives don't matter to Arabs where Israeli lives matter to Israel. It also shows the Arabs don't have a hope of achieving their aims.

I am afraid the ratio when including the wounded is significantly higher 230:1 (deaths: 2139 Palestines 70 Israeli)

The above article highlights again that Israel doesn't care about its African and Bedouin citizens, so only certain Israeli lives are important to Israeli

Edited July 10, 2015 by RockyBeerbelly

[ggold]

To put it simple: "How many Arabs is one Jew worth?" Even a dead Jew?

Statistically 28.76 to 1

Based on last year the ratio is even slightly higher 30.55 to 1

Your figures are based on wounded as well, I was basing it on deaths alone. Of course when it comes to swaps it is even higher than 30.55 to one. I think the point is Arab lives don't matter to Arabs where Israeli lives matter to Israel. It also shows the Arabs don't have a hope of achieving their aims.

I am afraid the ratio when including the wounded is significantly higher 230:1 (deaths: 2139 Palestines 70 Israeli)

The above article highlights again that Israel doesn't care about its African and Bedouin citizens, so only certain Israeli lives are important to Israeli

at 230-1 you would need over 16000 dead arabs! And no the above article doesn't highlight what you suggest. It is obvious secret negotiations were taking place before the news became public.

[RockyBeerbelly]

Your figures are based on wounded as well, I was basing it on deaths alone. Of course when it comes to swaps it is even higher than 30.55 to one. I think the point is Arab lives don't matter to Arabs where Israeli lives matter to Israel. It also shows the Arabs don't have a hope of achieving their aims.

I am afraid the ratio when including the wounded is significantly higher 230:1 (deaths: 2139 Palestines 70 Israeli)

The above article highlights again that Israel doesn't care about its African and Bedouin citizens, so only certain Israeli lives are important to Israeli

at 230-1 you would need over 16000 dead arabs! And no the above article doesn't highlight what you suggest. It is obvious secret negotiations were taking place before the news became public.

I am afraid the ratio when including the wounded is significantly higher 230:1 (deaths: 2139 Palestines 70 Israeli)

Where did you read about secret negotiations?

I did read this though: "They're not dealing with a valuable asset" like a captured soldier, Baskin said. "It's not the same high-value bargaining card."

Hence my remark that only some Israeli lives are important to Israeli. If it would have been an Israeli soldier, Israel would have immediately started murdering Palestinian civilians again

[ABCer]

Seastallion, RockyBeerbelly and ggold,

Thank you gentlemen. Your figures are accepted.

Now why this information apparently known and used by Gazans and Hamas cum Israel is not known to the Gentlemen from UN Human Rights Commission?

All they are busy with is issuing their Resolutions condemning Israel for "Disproportional use of force".

Last time I heard BBC talking about 67 such Resolutions of Human Rights Abuse by Israel and only 55 of such Resolutions concerning the rest of the whole big World!

That is including Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, China, Russia, Syria, Libya and the rest... 192 countries!

It is my good luck that I am not an Israeli otherwise I could have been tempted to say to these UN gentlemen: " Go and get played with yourself".

Edited July 10, 2015 by ABCer

[up-country_sinclair]

The Israeli government is trying to intimidate the Ethiopian family. Shameless.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/pms-rep-threatened-hostages-family-over-public-criticism/

[Seastallion]

The Israeli government is trying to intimidate the Ethiopian family. Shameless.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/pms-rep-threatened-hostages-family-over-public-criticism/

Shameless and atrocious!!

An Israeli citizen, a LIVING Jew as well, but black, is less valuable than the dead body of a "white" Jewish soldier.

Shocking indictment of internal racism inside the so-called model democracy of the Middle East.

[up-country_sinclair]

Not sure why you put white in quotes. This is all about skin color.

[Steely Dan]

The Israeli government is trying to intimidate the Ethiopian family. Shameless.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/pms-rep-threatened-hostages-family-over-public-criticism/

Shameless and atrocious!!

An Israeli citizen, a LIVING Jew as well, but black, is less valuable than the dead body of a "white" Jewish soldier.

Shocking indictment of internal racism inside the so-called model democracy of the Middle East.

In your mock outrage you appear to have completely overlooked the war crime committed by Hamas in taking hostages in the first place, no surprise there, though I guess some of our esteemed members are used to feeding on scraps, whilst wholesale slaughter continues in the rest of the Middle East.

[Seastallion]

The Israeli government is trying to intimidate the Ethiopian family. Shameless.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/pms-rep-threatened-hostages-family-over-public-criticism/

Shameless and atrocious!!

An Israeli citizen, a LIVING Jew as well, but black, is less valuable than the dead body of a "white" Jewish soldier.

Shocking indictment of internal racism inside the so-called model democracy of the Middle East.

In your mock outrage you appear to have completely overlooked the war crime committed by Hamas in taking hostages in the first place, no surprise there, though I guess some of our esteemed members are used to feeding on scraps, whilst wholesale slaughter continues in the rest of the Middle East.

The outrage is real, and there is no need for you to pretend that it isn't. There is also no need for you to divert from the glaring fact in the OP and try to put attention away from Israel's faults.

[Seastallion]

Not sure why you put white in quotes. This is all about skin color.

Well, one esteemed member never fails to interject at every possible point that these Europeans are indigenous. If they are indigenous, they are not really white, are they?

[Ulysses G.]

If they look white, they are white, just like white Hispanics.

[Jingthing]

Well,someone should tell those Gaza peple that Black lives matter. Arab lives matter.

Well Hamas clearly understands that the life of an African Jew or an Israeli Bedouin matters, since they allegedly abducted these people for negotiation purposes with Israel.

It is made brilliantly clear again that the fascist Israeli regime doesn't give a toss about an African Jew or an Israeli Bedouin, otherwise they would have started their usual murdering of innocent Palestinians already (as a so-called retaliation). They are of course both not Israelis of Aryan decent....and we all know that there is only one race which counts in (Likud) Israel!

I wouldn’t be surprised if these 2 abducted people will be either killed (hopefully not) or freed soon. Either way Israel doesn't care….

Israelis of Aryan descent? Missed that day in school? The hatred of Israel seeps from your post. Intentional I suppose.

[dexterm]

On the positive side, it seems cooler heads are prevailing this time around. Maybe an opportunity to show some good will on both sides and start building some trust.

Mkhaimar Abusada, a professor of political science at Gaza's Al-Azhar University, said a possible deal could include steps to strengthen the cease-fire. "I think the swap would be part of a long-term truce, five years or more," he said.

Something that could have been done 12 months ago when the 3 teens were kidnapped, and Netanyahu immediatley flew off the handle, arresting hundreds of Hamas members without a shred of evidence and smashing up Palestinian homes, precipitating the Gaza war

A senior Hamas official said that as a precondition for negotiations, the group would seek the release of nearly 60 militants released by Israel in the Schalit deal and then re-arrested last year after the three Israeli teens were kidnapped.

In that the 60 Hamas members should never have been rearrested in the first place, Israel gets a bargain.

Let's hope this is the start of more peaceful times.

[geriatrickid]

This is going to be interesting. Let's see if the armchair socialists rally to help a mentally disturbed ethnic African who likes beer and a muslim Bedouin.

2812859918-e1436420706739-635x357.jpg

Interesting that little is said about the arab hostage.

Well,someone should tell those Gaza peple that Black lives matter. Arab lives matter.

""They're not dealing with a valuable asset" like a captured soldier, Baskin said. "It's not the same high-value bargaining card.""

I think you'll find that the "subdued reaction in Israel" is precisely because one is black and one is Arab.

Not at all. Both are Israeli and if anything, the Bedouin is of more value because of his past military service. Israel needs its Bedouin allies, and the Bedouins need the Israelis if they ever hope to regain their land occupied by the arabs called "Palestinians". It speaks volumes that you focus on Israel, and don't ask why the Israeli arabs are not out protesting the kidnapping of one of their own. Not a word. No protests, no burning tyres, no fat women udulating, no kids trying to kill Israelis with their rock throwing. Nothing. Apparently, a Bedouin has no value to the arab community.

I note the double standard from many who don't consider it wrong that the arabs of Gaza are holding two people hostage for an extended period of time. Not a word on the lack of decency and basic morality. If the tables were turned, and Israel held a mentally deficient Gazan and a muslim from the former Jordan occupied west bank, we would be treated to cries of bad Israel, eveil apartheid blah blah blah.

Your hatred of Israel is very evident.

[Scott]

A nonsensical post and reply have been removed.

[Seastallion]

This is going to be interesting. Let's see if the armchair socialists rally to help a mentally disturbed ethnic African who likes beer and a muslim Bedouin.

2812859918-e1436420706739-635x357.jpg

Interesting that little is said about the arab hostage.

Well,someone should tell those Gaza peple that Black lives matter. Arab lives matter.

""They're not dealing with a valuable asset" like a captured soldier, Baskin said. "It's not the same high-value bargaining card.""

I think you'll find that the "subdued reaction in Israel" is precisely because one is black and one is Arab.

Not at all. Both are Israeli and if anything, the Bedouin is of more value because of his past military service. Israel needs its Bedouin allies, and the Bedouins need the Israelis if they ever hope to regain their land occupied by the arabs called "Palestinians". It speaks volumes that you focus on Israel, and don't ask why the Israeli arabs are not out protesting the kidnapping of one of their own. Not a word. No protests, no burning tyres, no fat women udulating, no kids trying to kill Israelis with their rock throwing. Nothing. Apparently, a Bedouin has no value to the arab community.

I note the double standard from many who don't consider it wrong that the arabs of Gaza are holding two people hostage for an extended period of time. Not a word on the lack of decency and basic morality. If the tables were turned, and Israel held a mentally deficient Gazan and a muslim from the former Jordan occupied west bank, we would be treated to cries of bad Israel, eveil apartheid blah blah blah.

Your hatred of Israel is very evident.

The story is about Israelis and Israel's action with regard to their disappearance....to say that "it speaks volumes" that I focus on the OP is an odd comment.

We don't know if either chap is being held, nor by whom if they are being held.

Why would Arab Israeli kids try to kill other Israelis with rocks because an Arab disappeared in Gaza? You make a ludicrous point.

The most ludicrous point you make is the one about Israel not holding any mentally deficient Gazans or Muslim Palestinians; They surely do, and in the hundreds.....but to decry that here and now would be off-topic.

Please explain exactly why the Israeli response is so subdued if it's not for the fact of one of the men being Arab and the other black? I can think of no reason...but I am open to suggestions.