Two ziplining tourists hurt after colliding mid-air in Chiang Mai

[webfact]

CHIANG MAI
Two ziplining tourists hurt after colliding mid-air
The Nation

CHIANG MAI: -- Two female tourists were injured when they crashed into each other mid-air while taking part in a ziplining tour in Chiang Mai's Mae On district.

The collision happened when a 27-year-old Chinese tourist swung back in panic, after she reportedly saw bees swarm out of a broken hive on the tree that she was on, and collided with the 57-year-old American tourist behind her. They were 10 metres above ground.

The American woman broke a rib, which punctured her lung, while the Chinese woman suffered serious bruises and was unable to move.

The two women were later transferred to a private hospital in the city and the tour operator said they would cover the expenses.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Two-ziplining-tourists-hurt-after-colliding-mid-ai-30264446.html


-- The Nation 2015-07-15

[noitom]

Hope these two women come out okay. What tourist in their right mind would zip line in high risk, lackadaisical Thailand?

[canuckamuck]

I used to suggest zip lining to my visiting friends. This is the third serious accident I have heard about in a very short time in CM. So I guess I won't suggest it any more.

[FolkGuitar]

It's rather hard to blame the zip-line company for the actions of a swarm of bees. There is no way for anyone to predict the action of wild bees, much less prepare for it. People tend to panic when confronted with the possibility of getting stung by bees, especially in large numbers. I've seen well-disciplined soldiers in an active firefight break discipline/cover to get away from a few bees, to say nothing people swatting wildly at mosquitoes. I suggest that an accident like this was just that... an accident 'located' at a zip-line attraction.

[MaeJoMTB]

Two customers on a zip at one time!

Is that safe?

Edited July 15, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[stuurman]

Two customers on a zip at one time!

Is that safe?

Seems as safe as two people jumping off a bungee jump platform at the same time.

[LarryBird]

It's rather hard to blame the zip-line company for the actions of a swarm of bees. There is no way for anyone to predict the action of wild bees, much less prepare for it. People tend to panic when confronted with the possibility of getting stung by bees, especially in large numbers. I've seen well-disciplined soldiers in an active firefight break discipline/cover to get away from a few bees, to say nothing people swatting wildly at mosquitoes. I suggest that an accident like this was just that... an accident 'located' at a zip-line attraction.

I don't think anyone will be surprised at the stance you've taken 'could happen anywhere'. If it happens ten times a day at one company, and once a year at another.. I guess it could happen at either.

It's difficult to speculate on the level of negligence, but it seems reasonable one would hope the actions of the person in front of you on a zip line wouldn't lead to a punctured lung. I guess if the Chinese lady stopped for a selfie your opinions would change.. One can only think maybe the company was trying to get too many customers through at once.

The nice thing here is, it's also hard to define a 'swarm of bees'. They're gone now, so we'll never know.

Edited July 15, 2015 by LarryBird

[Gonzo the Face]

The article stated that the bees swarmed out of a broken hive on the tree....... and you think that there was no irresponsible partaking by the tour company???? If there was a bee hive on the tree, why would they even consider using that spot without making some adjustment....... like removing the hive or changing to another location if they chose to face the expense...

No the women did not get on the line and then the bees chose to build a hive in front of them. There was irresponsibility on the part of the line operator.

[FolkGuitar]

The article stated that the bees swarmed out of a broken hive on the tree....... and you think that there was no irresponsible partaking by the tour company???? If there was a bee hive on the tree, why would they even consider using that spot without making some adjustment....... like removing the hive or changing to another location if they chose to face the expense...

No the women did not get on the line and then the bees chose to build a hive in front of them. There was irresponsibility on the part of the line operator.

I think that, as usual, we really don't have enough information to suggest ANYTHING other than there was a bee swarm and some panicked tourists.

We don't know if the hive was 25 feet above the platform and no one knew about it, or if it was broken during the night by a marauding jungle animal and no one knew about it, etc., etc. It's only 'negligence' if if was known and ignored. Does the article say that was the case? Does the article say that two people were on the 'line' at the same time or just that one person was on, then turned back into another person. Was the other person on the platform or on the line? The article doesn't say. We don't have enough information to make anything other than knee-jerk panic reactions... just as the Chinese tourist did when she saw bees. We've all seen bees. Lots and lots of times. Have we been stung lots and lots of times? Or just once when we were 7 years old...

[LarryBird]

Some might wonder why you think the presence of bees, and someone's reaction should cause injuries to other participants.

You are right though, pretty much the only thing we do know, is that two people were severly injured. It is also safe to assume that you will believe whatever story you want to tell yourself that supports there was no negligence, or the usual cover up.

[canuckamuck]

The only scenario that makes sense to me is that a lady on the platform panicked and moved into the path of an incoming zipliner. That is the only thing I can imagine that would create enough impact to break ribs. If you are on a zip line there is really very little you can do to change your path so it couldn't have been two people in the same line. The impact would have been minimal n that case.

So the bees must have been near the platform. What we don't know is if the company knew about the bees or not.

My guess is it was a mai pen rai thing going on. But that is only my opinion.

[MaeJoMTB]

I think that, as usual, we really don't have enough information to suggest ANYTHING

I know enough to suggest zip-lining (especially in Thailand) is a pointless risk.

And especially for the over 50s whose bones have started to degrade.

Poor safety standards, greedy poorly trained operators, in places often a long way from medical facilities.

I don't need to know any more.

[Tywais]

Went looking for zip lining photos for Chiang Mai and appears they have parallel lines where two people can go at the same time quite close to each other so I can see how one of them 'swinging' could come in contact with another zip lining. Seems staggering the lines further apart would be a smart move. Photos shown not necessarily the same company but are in Chiang Mai.

[FolkGuitar]

1. Some might wonder why you think the presence of bees, and someone's reaction should cause injuries to other participants.

2. It is also safe to assume that you will believe whatever story you want to tell yourself that supports there was no negligence, or the usual cover up.

1. I think this for the same reason that 'inciting to panic' is considered a crime in most advanced civilizations.

Panicked people make mistakes that often injure others. As an adult, you should know this.

2. Once again, you 'assume' and come up completely wrong. You seem to make a habit of this. Please don't add your own ideas and pass them off as mine.

I'm neither suggesting that there was or was not negligence on the part of the zip-line company. I AM suggesting that we do NOT have enough facts in this situation to know one way or the other. You may wish to run around shouting 'the sky is falling,' but I do not. I want to know the facts before I come to any conclusions. Right now, all we know is;

that two people were injured

there was a swarm of bees that panicked one tourist

the injury occurred at a zip-line venue.

............. nothing more. Not nearly enough information to make an informed decision. And considering that even this information came from a newspaper article, perhaps we know even less.

Edited July 15, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[FolkGuitar]

Went looking for zip lining photos for Chiang Mai and appears they have parallel lines where two people can go at the same time quite close to each other so I can see how one of them 'swinging' could come in contact with another zip lining. Seems staggering the lines further apart would be a smart move. Photos shown not necessarily the same company but are in Chiang Mai.

I've never been to any of the Thai zip-line venues, but seeing these photos does give me cause for concern.

Neither participants have safety (belay) lines rigged to a separate line. There is no fail-safe mechanism in play. And as you say, the lines are much too close to each other as well. And one last, but very important issue; although the participants are wearing gloves, their hands are on the pulley housing! It's all to easy for a glove to get trapped under the pulley wheel, dragging the fingers into the mechanism. If moving fast enough, this could be enough momentum to sever a finger...

[sappersrest]

Note my words but copied from a previous post re another accident I think it says it all

" have been waiting for this to happen for a while now!

Previously I used to work for a outdoor adventure company that offered visiting students and corporate clients zip line activites as part of their programme, so for this instance we had to used a local company as we did not own our own zipline.

I would always go and do a recce of their services before the groups arrrive and I ALWAYS ALWAYS found the same problems., When I brought these issues up with the management, they either claimed I was making it up and that they know what they are doing and have never had an accident, or they said they would take the comments under advisement, obvioulsy, when I went with the clients the same issues arised.

Due to me not owning the outdoor company I worked for I could only do so much, and if the clients wanted to go ziplining there really was not much I could do about it, as it was "what they requested" was the answer given from above.

Safety concerns that ALWAYS came up in EVERY SINGLE company I checked out in Chiang Mai ( i recced at least 6 diffenet companies)

- Helmets being removed at the end of the session, whilst still being stood under other people coming down.

- Hand held bamboo sticks used as brakes, that were not attached to anything, could be easily dropped, see first issue.

- Karabiners not being screwed closed, and in 2 cases, the karabiner was so old the karabiner could not actually close.

- Ropes used for descending, never removed, and having the knots being tied into the permanently

- If using a sit harness, allowing the clients to invert, could leading to possibly fall out of harness but also great risk of catching the ankle against the wire ( very painful)

- Many Many times, not being attached to anything other than the "instructor" physically holding me ( 100kg man against 50 kg thai guy) on most platforms very high up.

- Poorly planned programme timings, so much so that clients back up against eachother causing considerable waiting time on platforms ( too many people on platforms, Instructor not being able to see his group.

- Excessive use of wires, without rest so that it casues the wires to heat up and stretch making the runs longer and thus the clients cannot reach the other side, so they have to be "rescued by the cowboy", then see issue above

- wrong shape karabiner used for wrong reasons

- drunken ytruck drivers picking up clients at the end of the zipline.

- wire clips attached to the wires incorrectly

-trees way too small being used for zip line runs.

- no first aid kits carried by most.

- no real operating procedures in case of emergency.

.

please dont get me stated on some rafting comapanies,..... dear god!"

RANT OVER...Whew.

[spidermike007]

Note my words but copied from a previous post re another accident I think it says it all

" have been waiting for this to happen for a while now!

Previously I used to work for a outdoor adventure company that offered visiting students and corporate clients zip line activites as part of their programme, so for this instance we had to used a local company as we did not own our own zipline.

I would always go and do a recce of their services before the groups arrrive and I ALWAYS ALWAYS found the same problems., When I brought these issues up with the management, they either claimed I was making it up and that they know what they are doing and have never had an accident, or they said they would take the comments under advisement, obvioulsy, when I went with the clients the same issues arised.

Due to me not owning the outdoor company I worked for I could only do so much, and if the clients wanted to go ziplining there really was not much I could do about it, as it was "what they requested" was the answer given from above.

Safety concerns that ALWAYS came up in EVERY SINGLE company I checked out in Chiang Mai ( i recced at least 6 diffenet companies)

- Helmets being removed at the end of the session, whilst still being stood under other people coming down.

- Hand held bamboo sticks used as brakes, that were not attached to anything, could be easily dropped, see first issue.

- Karabiners not being screwed closed, and in 2 cases, the karabiner was so old the karabiner could not actually close.

- Ropes used for descending, never removed, and having the knots being tied into the permanently

- If using a sit harness, allowing the clients to invert, could leading to possibly fall out of harness but also great risk of catching the ankle against the wire ( very painful)

- Many Many times, not being attached to anything other than the "instructor" physically holding me ( 100kg man against 50 kg thai guy) on most platforms very high up.

- Poorly planned programme timings, so much so that clients back up against eachother causing considerable waiting time on platforms ( too many people on platforms, Instructor not being able to see his group.

- Excessive use of wires, without rest so that it casues the wires to heat up and stretch making the runs longer and thus the clients cannot reach the other side, so they have to be "rescued by the cowboy", then see issue above

- wrong shape karabiner used for wrong reasons

- drunken ytruck drivers picking up clients at the end of the zipline.

- wire clips attached to the wires incorrectly

-trees way too small being used for zip line runs.

- no first aid kits carried by most.

- no real operating procedures in case of emergency.

.

please dont get me stated on some rafting comapanies,..... dear god!"

RANT OVER...Whew.

In other words a completely typical Thai safety campaign. Until the government gets its act together (perhaps within 40 years time) and starts paying attention to public safety, every zip line and bungee jump operation in the country should be shut down. Or they can just admit it is over their heads and hire a foreign safety inspection group to inspect them all. One warning. After that you are shut down permanently and pay a million baht fine. We are talking about lives here.

[FolkGuitar]

Two customers on a zip at one time!

Is that safe?

Are you 'assuming' that there were two people on one line at the same time, or did you actually read this somewhere?

[LarryBird]

Note my words but copied from a previous post re another accident I think it says it all

" have been waiting for this to happen for a while now!

Previously I used to work for a outdoor adventure company that offered visiting students and corporate clients zip line activites as part of their programme, so for this instance we had to used a local company as we did not own our own zipline.

I would always go and do a recce of their services before the groups arrrive and I ALWAYS ALWAYS found the same problems., When I brought these issues up with the management, they either claimed I was making it up and that they know what they are doing and have never had an accident, or they said they would take the comments under advisement, obvioulsy, when I went with the clients the same issues arised.

Due to me not owning the outdoor company I worked for I could only do so much, and if the clients wanted to go ziplining there really was not much I could do about it, as it was "what they requested" was the answer given from above.

Safety concerns that ALWAYS came up in EVERY SINGLE company I checked out in Chiang Mai ( i recced at least 6 diffenet companies)

- Helmets being removed at the end of the session, whilst still being stood under other people coming down.

- Hand held bamboo sticks used as brakes, that were not attached to anything, could be easily dropped, see first issue.

- Karabiners not being screwed closed, and in 2 cases, the karabiner was so old the karabiner could not actually close.

- Ropes used for descending, never removed, and having the knots being tied into the permanently

- If using a sit harness, allowing the clients to invert, could leading to possibly fall out of harness but also great risk of catching the ankle against the wire ( very painful)

- Many Many times, not being attached to anything other than the "instructor" physically holding me ( 100kg man against 50 kg thai guy) on most platforms very high up.

- Poorly planned programme timings, so much so that clients back up against eachother causing considerable waiting time on platforms ( too many people on platforms, Instructor not being able to see his group.

- Excessive use of wires, without rest so that it casues the wires to heat up and stretch making the runs longer and thus the clients cannot reach the other side, so they have to be "rescued by the cowboy", then see issue above

- wrong shape karabiner used for wrong reasons

- drunken ytruck drivers picking up clients at the end of the zipline.

- wire clips attached to the wires incorrectly

-trees way too small being used for zip line runs.

- no first aid kits carried by most.

- no real operating procedures in case of emergency.

.

please dont get me stated on some rafting comapanies,..... dear god!"

RANT OVER...Whew.

Great post, and pretty much what anyone who has lived here for some time would expect to read, or at least something along those lines.

We have posters here <deleted> that don't seem to understand that precautionary measures aren't just taken for common events, but the rare event, that still has a chance of happening in a decent stretch of time. we also do not know if there was a swarm of bees, although it has been reported there was a swarm of bees. It could have been one bee, or maybe the woman was afraid of her own shadow. But, we do know, that around here, truth takes a distant back seat to face.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Rimmer
Baiting

[Tywais]

Two customers on a zip at one time!

Is that safe?

Are you 'assuming' that there were two people on one line at the same time, or did you actually read this somewhere?

I would say the article was not clear plus not knowing how multiple zip lines work, me included until I looked up the photos, one could easily venture a guess that is how it could happen.

[sawadee1947]

It's rather hard to blame the zip-line company for the actions of a swarm of bees. There is no way for anyone to predict the action of wild bees, much less prepare for it. People tend to panic when confronted with the possibility of getting stung by bees, especially in large numbers. I've seen well-disciplined soldiers in an active firefight break discipline/cover to get away from a few bees, to say nothing people swatting wildly at mosquitoes. I suggest that an accident like this was just that... an accident 'located' at a zip-line attraction.

NO way: the tour operator has to take care of his tourists. In this case to provide that there are NO bees at that tree where to land with the zip line.

[Tywais]

Just curious about 'belay lines' as I have no idea what they are until searching a bit. Seems in this video (Chiang Mai) some have it and some don't? In some segments I see two parallel lines, one with the zip liner themselves on and another with a second line from the zip liner over to it.

BTW, looking on YouTube for Chiang Mai zip line, quite a few popup with 'the instructor forgot ...'

[oneday]

The most likely way this happened is one person was almost at the next platform when they sent the following person on the same line, but as the Chinese tourist almost at her platform saw the bees she probably pushed off, to get away from them, giving her a lot of momentum heading back in the direction of the lady who was coming her way on the SAME line.

Two people zip-lining as in the pictures above almost certainly would not cause the injuries listed in the article.

Anyway..."...and the tour operator said they would cover the expenses..."

Let's give the tour operator a big hand for their generosity.

[FolkGuitar]

Just curious about 'belay lines' as I have no idea what they are until searching a bit. Seems in this video (Chiang Mai) some have it and some don't? In some segments I see two parallel lines, one with the zip liner themselves on and another with a second line from the zip liner over to it.

BTW, looking on YouTube for Chiang Mai zip line, quite a few popup with 'the instructor forgot ...'

You're correct to think that the Belay line is a secondary line intended ONLY for safety. There should be NO load-bearing on this line at all, except in the case where the primary connections for safe use fail. As you said, you can see this secondary line running parallel to the zip-line in 'some' of the videos. This is the situation that will occur when there are no formal safety regulations in play (accidents,) being ignored in venues with a rudimentary knowledge of basic climbing safety (negligence,) or where someone is trying to save money (criminal negligence.)

We are all aware that Thailand is lacking in fundamental regulations, to say nothing of oversight of these regulations. It's no surprise that accidents happen as frequently in tourist venues as they do on the streets and highways. The question will always remain; is it an accident, is it negligence, or is it criminal negligence. Unfortunately, that is something we'll never really find out.

Edited July 15, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[balo]

Mai pen rai.

[Kannikapor88]

I dont know if Folkguitar is owner of a Zipline Company or some other "Death Wish" Adventure thingy here in CM but its obvious to (almost) everyone that the people operating these death traps have absolutely no idea what they are dealing with ...

Its amazing that some people have to defend these loonies that put other peoples life in danger by their ignorance and "mai pen rai" attitude ...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So, was this operator the same one that had, IIRC, the Chinese tourist fatality in CM recently, or a different one?

The OP article seems to make no mention, as is often the case, of just what operator was involved.

[Rimmer]

A post has been removed:

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[Chicog]

Ironic that this popped up into my newsfeed today.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=35505253&nid=148

In fact if you google "zipline deaths" you'll find plenty.

Better to stay at home and hide under the table.

I believe people die on motorbikes and in swimming pools, too.

It's just not safe out there.

[Ulic]

One at a time folks, one at a time. The second line should be for rescue/emergencies.