Forced to return to home country - what would you do?

[NoshowJones]

ThaibeachLover. If I was in a UK nursing home, no one will dare mistreat me, even if I was ninety, there are plenty of weapons about and I would use them.

I would have nothing to lose at that age.

You mean you would kill before you get incapacipated?

I would have my life to lose, and the bastards wouldn't even allow suicide as long as they can squeeze some profit out of me.

I'm not suicidal anyway, which leaves only one option.

incapacipated? You mean getting my head chopped off?

[NoshowJones]

ThaibeachLover. If I was in a UK nursing home, no one will dare mistreat me, even if I was ninety, there are plenty of weapons about and I would use them.

I would have nothing to lose at that age.

If you threatened the staff you would probably be left to rot in your bed and ignored- left to soil yourself, starve and get bedsores. It's all great as long as you can get out of bed yourself. Once you can't do that you are at their mercy.

Good point, but I would not threaten the staff, I would promise them, and as long as I was up and walking god help anyone

who laid a violent finger on me.

[SGX]

Not having worked there since 1990, I doubt I could get a job for which I am qualified - petroleum engineer only did it for 3 years and hated it.

I'd like to get a job as a gardener or in a rehab as a counselor, might have to go back to school though.

I could go round the bars playing poker as I'm pretty good..

Macau could use you right about now..

I tried playing poker, I read all the books learnt how to count cards. Was very keen to try compete for the big booby prizes. In the end just stuck with trading. I found it wasn't for me .

Although when in a casino I gravitate towards Roulette, I get far more excitement playing 5 or 6 roulette tables at the same time.

when i leave the occasional casino playing days, i do actually have pocket full of cash . funny enough.

Only money who cares.. cant take it with you..

[NoshowJones]

ThaibeachLover. If I was in a UK nursing home, no one will dare mistreat me, even if I was ninety, there are plenty of weapons about and I would use them.

I would have nothing to lose at that age.

If you threatened the staff you would probably be left to rot in your bed and ignored- left to soil yourself, starve and get bedsores. It's all great as long as you can get out of bed yourself. Once you can't do that you are at their mercy.

They have their ways to calm you down. Tranquilizers, shackles, etc.

Call a lawyer? They put you on isolation, how can you call someone for help?

Even if you could: who would believe you?

If you make trouble, then they take this as evidence that you're really a lunatic, and a danger to the public.

The public will give them a big hand, because they are afraid of everyone they might disturb their idyllic lifestyle.

Would those things happen in this day and age? If I was in a nursing home, I would do what I do here in Thailand, be nice to

everyone, if anyone does me or threatens me with any harm, they will be to blame, and then there will be consequences.

Remember, I'm referring to being in the UK.

[micmichd]

ThaibeachLover. If I was in a UK nursing home, no one will dare mistreat me, even if I was ninety, there are plenty of weapons about and I would use them.

I would have nothing to lose at that age.

You mean you would kill before you get incapacipated?

I would have my life to lose, and the bastards wouldn't even allow suicide as long as they can squeeze some profit out of me.

I'm not suicidal anyway, which leaves only one option.

incapacipated? You mean getting my head chopped off?

No, I mean psychiatrical and legal incapacipation, legally done in German mental hospitals.

The German word is "Zwangsbetreuung", literally something like "forced care"

They put you in isolation and under drugs until you show signs of a psychosis, then they declare you legally without a will of your own and decide you have to stay in for further investigation, and finally force you to "treat" the drug addiction you now have from the drugs they forced you to take.

[SGX]

Suppose that you're happily living in Thailand, but that some serious event forces you to return to live back in your home country:

- Illness, but not enough to disable you

- Business gone bust in Thailand, money run out

- Thai wife has shacked up with her 'brother'

I wouldn't leave Thailand or return to my homeland for any of those reasons. The 3rd one would probably be a blessing. haha

Though sometimes I do questions why I am still here, but those 3 reason you gave are just silly.

Yes, i tend to disagree as well

-. Illness , cheaper in Thailand then western land for anything serious. Maybe in Oz you can stay in hospital until they find you housing . (cant be discharged without place of residence)

- Business gone bust well good luck in western land you may be priced out of the market.

- Thai wife with brother , who cares go to another corner get another one. Or better still Get your door man to bring you room service with 11.00pm delight..

Very cheap to keep little hottie with you indefinately. Better than being stuck with nagging western crap cheaper too. LoL

Conclusion: Thailand has more upside.

[NoshowJones]

ThaibeachLover. If I was in a UK nursing home, no one will dare mistreat me, even if I was ninety, there are plenty of weapons about and I would use them.

I would have nothing to lose at that age.

You mean you would kill before you get incapacipated?

I would have my life to lose, and the bastards wouldn't even allow suicide as long as they can squeeze some profit out of me.

I'm not suicidal anyway, which leaves only one option.

incapacipated? You mean getting my head chopped off?

No, I mean psychiatrical and legal incapacipation, legally done in German mental hospitals.

The German word is "Zwangsbetreuung", literally something like "forced care"

They put you in isolation and under drugs until you show signs of a psychosis, then they declare you legally without a will of your own and decide you have to stay in for further investigation, and finally force you to "treat" the drug addiction you now have from the drugs they forced you to take.

Well I'm not German, and I was referring to a British old folks home, with my life style, it s hardly likely I'm going to be in a mental hospital.

[micmichd]

ThaibeachLover. If I was in a UK nursing home, no one will dare mistreat me, even if I was ninety, there are plenty of weapons about and I would use them.

I would have nothing to lose at that age.

If you threatened the staff you would probably be left to rot in your bed and ignored- left to soil yourself, starve and get bedsores. It's all great as long as you can get out of bed yourself. Once you can't do that you are at their mercy.

They have their ways to calm you down. Tranquilizers, shackles, etc.

Call a lawyer? They put you on isolation, how can you call someone for help?

Even if you could: who would believe you?

If you make trouble, then they take this as evidence that you're really a lunatic, and a danger to the public.

The public will give them a big hand, because they are afraid of everyone they might disturb their idyllic lifestyle.

Would those things happen in this day and age? If I was in a nursing home, I would do what I do here in Thailand, be nice to

everyone, if anyone does me or threatens me with any harm, they will be to blame, and then there will be consequences.

Remember, I'm referring to being in the UK.

It happened in Psychiatrische Universitaetsklinik Heidelberg in 2013, and it happened to me. I survived and escaped, to Thailand. Actually, my intention to move over to Thailand and live with my Thai gf was the initial reason for this torture.

I made as much trouble about that as possible, till they finally found out that there was actually nothing wrong with me right from the beginning. It was just my Asiatic cognitive framework that was so confusing. They tried really hard to find out if I was brainwashed. They finally let me go to Thailand.

And now they are afraid I come back, 3 people already threatened me to get me locked up in Germany again.

Sure their behaviour will have consequences, political consequences I hope.

Be glad if you don't have a terroristic system like this in UK.

Edited July 18, 2015 by micmichd

[simon43]

till they finally found out that there was actually nothing wrong with me

Well, that is only their opinion...

[micmichd]

till they finally found out that there was actually nothing wrong with me

Well, that is only their opinion...

It is my opinion, too.

And maybe the opinion of my Thai caretaking family.

Edited July 18, 2015 by micmichd

[NoshowJones]

Micmichd, I really don't know what to say about this, I cannot comment about Germany, and never having been involved

with anything like that in the UK, I cannot comment about mental hospitals over there either.

I hope everything is working out for you over here.

[micmichd]

Micmichd, I really don't know what to say about this, I cannot comment about Germany, and never having been involved

with anything like that in the UK, I cannot comment about mental hospitals over there either.

I hope everything is working out for you over here.

Yes, it's oK.

Those traumatic memories of Heidelberg cannot keep me from living here and now in Thailand.

[SGX]

Micmichd, I really don't know what to say about this, I cannot comment about Germany, and never having been involved

with anything like that in the UK, I cannot comment about mental hospitals over there either.

I hope everything is working out for you over here.

Yes, it's oK.

Those traumatic memories of Heidelberg cannot keep me from living here and now in Thailand.

Just keep in mind there is so much evil in the world. Just be thankful you able to get out and keep clear head about your future.

Writing thoughts in Diary often releases anger and frustrations etc.

[GuestHouse]

I take it the OP's question is aimed at those who would need to provide their own accommodation, food and life's essentials should they return to their home country.

Those expats in Thailand who are dodging the kind offer of their home governments to provide them a 'secure home' with all food and essentials care of the penal system might not want to return at any cost.

[StreetCowboy]

I take it the OP's question is aimed at those who would need to provide their own accommodation, food and life's essentials should they return to their home country.

Those expats in Thailand who are dodging the kind offer of their home governments to provide them a 'secure home' with all food and essentials care of the penal system might not want to return at any cost.

I thought "forced to return" was a euphemism for 'manacled'

[kannot]

Think i would rather live in a cardboard box than return to australia. I could think of nothing worse than having to return there.

yet many could think of nothing better especially in Europe

[JockPieandBeans]

I take it the OP's question is aimed at those who would need to provide their own accommodation, food and life's essentials should they return to their home country.

Those expats in Thailand who are dodging the kind offer of their home governments to provide them a 'secure home' with all food and essentials care of the penal system might not want to return at any cost.

That is my goal if I reach 90.

A UK Open prison.

Free, 3 meals a day and you get to book out for weekends.

What more does one need at 90

[simon43]

What more does one need at 90

Are massage services (for medical reasons of course), provided?

[thaibeachlovers]

ThaibeachLover. If I was in a UK nursing home, no one will dare mistreat me, even if I was ninety, there are plenty of weapons about and I would use them.

I would have nothing to lose at that age.

If you threatened the staff you would probably be left to rot in your bed and ignored- left to soil yourself, starve and get bedsores. It's all great as long as you can get out of bed yourself. Once you can't do that you are at their mercy.

They have their ways to calm you down. Tranquilizers, shackles, etc.

Call a lawyer? They put you on isolation, how can you call someone for help?

Even if you could: who would believe you?

If you make trouble, then they take this as evidence that you're really a lunatic, and a danger to the public.

The public will give them a big hand, because they are afraid of everyone they might disturb their idyllic lifestyle.

Would those things happen in this day and age? If I was in a nursing home, I would do what I do here in Thailand, be nice to

everyone, if anyone does me or threatens me with any harm, they will be to blame, and then there will be consequences.

Remember, I'm referring to being in the UK.

I think you misunderstood what I mean by being "mistreated".

Nobody except the desperate WANTS to work in an old folks home, and are underpaid and short staffed. So it's not really wilful mistreatment, more being ignored unless absolutely necessary, being stuck in front of a tv all day, and eating muck. Not a good way for someone with a normal mind and a bad body to live.

Even my father who could afford a "good" rest home was desperately lonely and had to eat the same muck as the really old people, and he could walk independently.

I'd imagine staying in Thailand and hiring a couple of home aids to look after one would be a good way to live out one's final years/ months. Unimaginably expensive in the UK though.

[GuestHouse]

I'd imagine staying in Thailand and hiring a couple of home aids to look after one would be a good way to live out one's final years/ months. Unimaginably expensive in the UK though.

While I am sure that this is a workable plan for many expats in Thailand, I don't think it addresses a few issues.

Most notably is the assumption that the aged expat has full use of his/her faculties; sadly dementia will take its toll on many, with many more suffering some loss of mental faculty.

The danger here is that Thailand has no trust law, under which the financial needs and control of estate might be managed. So those suffering loss of the mental faculties in Thailand they risk not just the same abuse/neglect they might suffer in the UK or US, they are also at grave risk of financial abuse.

Perhaps as bad is the lack of laws to deal with securely managing other people's affairs, may without very careful planning, leave honest families and carers with no means of accessing the expat's income/funds if the expat loses the ability to do for for himself/herself.

Its a mess and tragedy in the making (examples of which I, and I am sure others, have already witnessed).

My personal view is that for an expat to have any security in Thailand during their old age, their very best chance is a genuine relationship with a Thai wife/husband that must extend to a genuine relationship with the expat's Thai in-laws. We should each of us give careful consideration to what these things are - and indeed what they are not.

If an expat is lucky enough to find himself in a genuine caring relationship with their Thai wife/husband, supported by the Thai in-laws, then I would advise taking time to plan and arrange for the financial security of your wife/husband in the even you yourself are unable to manage your income/wealth.

And you always, always, need a plan B.

The nanny state back home that we often bemoan is in truth the reason why many expats eventually do get on the big silver bird back to welfare, health care and the security these things provide. ...... Despite their brave words while enjoying good health and good fortune.

[micmichd]

I'd imagine staying in Thailand and hiring a couple of home aids to look after one would be a good way to live out one's final years/ months. Unimaginably expensive in the UK though.

While I am sure that this is a workable plan for many expats in Thailand, I don't think it addresses a few issues.

Most notably is the assumption that the aged expat has full use of his/her faculties; sadly dementia will take its toll on many, with many more suffering some loss of mental faculty.

The danger here is that Thailand has no trust law, under which the financial needs and control of estate might be managed. So those suffering loss of the mental faculties in Thailand they risk not just the same abuse/neglect they might suffer in the UK or US, they are also at grave risk of financial abuse.

Perhaps as bad is the lack of laws to deal with securely managing other people's affairs, may without very careful planning, leave honest families and carers with no means of accessing the expat's income/funds if the expat loses the ability to do for for himself/herself.

Its a mess and tragedy in the making (examples of which I, and I am sure others, have already witnessed).

My personal view is that for an expat to have any security in Thailand during their old age, their very best chance is a genuine relationship with a Thai wife/husband that must extend to a genuine relationship with the expat's Thai in-laws. We should each of us give careful consideration to what these things are - and indeed what they are not.

If an expat is lucky enough to find himself in a genuine caring relationship with their Thai wife/husband, supported by the Thai in-laws, then I would advise taking time to plan and arrange for the financial security of your wife/husband in the even you yourself are unable to manage your income/wealth.

And you always, always, need a plan B.

The nanny state back home that we often bemoan is in truth the reason why many expats eventually do get on the big silver bird back to welfare, health care and the security these things provide. ...... Despite their brave words while enjoying good health and good fortune.

Sorry to disagree again, but a loss of mental faculty does not necessary mean you get a competent and honest caretaker in Europe - at least not in Germany.

Those caretakers - even the professional ones - often have no ideas about laws at all. But what can you do if you"re declared mentally incapable? You're a legal nobody. Legal caretakers are supposed to watch your financial issues. What can you do if they don't? Once again, you're a legal nobody. They get your mail, they open your letters, and do somethings behind your back - without even asking you. If (if!) you find out what damage they've done, then they're far away. You can sue them in court - if they have left you some money to pay in advance. If not, s.above.

I've had my experience wit a German "professional caretaker" - a complete idiot, and she left a perfect mess. Still struggling to get everything fixed.

Even a monkey would have done better than that "professional"

[Linky]

Oh dear, now there is a confused soul.

Confused? Why? Because I understand the workloads and the sacrifices that MPs make? Is it any wonder the best people aren't interested in the crap pay and working conditions?

Confused, because I understand what a pension treaty is?

You want something for nothing and become angry when you are told no. It is unfortunate you don't understand the concept of fiscal responsibility. Perhaps that is why your generation has run up massive deficits and buggered up the economy with your entitlement demands leaving the mess to future generations to sort out.

Thanks for nothing.

Umm no i dont want anything and have never asked for anything. It is unfortunate you have lost your marbles. Go have a nana nap.

[GuestHouse]

Sorry to disagree again, but a loss of mental faculty does not necessary mean you get a competent and honest caretaker in Europe - at least not in Germany.

I didn't say it does.

I said there are no laws in Thailand to deal with these issues:

So those suffering loss of the mental faculties in Thailand they risk not just the same abuse/neglect they might suffer in the UK or US, they are also at grave risk of financial abuse.

Abuse happens everywhere, but western expats in Thailand have given up access to laws that are there to protect the vulnerable.

We all need to be aware of this and the complications that arise from this.

You have my best wishes sorting out the mess left by your German 'carer', but be aware that the recourse to law you have in Germany would not be available in Thailand, where successful prosecution is too often followed by no action to enforce payment or recompense.

[micmichd]

Sorry to disagree again, but a loss of mental faculty does not necessary mean you get a competent and honest caretaker in Europe - at least not in Germany.

I didn't say it does.

I said there are no laws in Thailand to deal with these issues:

So those suffering loss of the mental faculties in Thailand they risk not just the same abuse/neglect they might suffer in the UK or US, they are also at grave risk of financial abuse.

Abuse happens everywhere, but western expats in Thailand have given up access to laws that are there to protect the vulnerable.

We all need to be aware of this and the complications that arise from this.

You have my best wishes sorting out the mess left by your German 'carer', but be aware that the recourse to law you have in Germany would not be available in Thailand, where successful prosecution is too often followed by no action to enforce payment or recompense.

Thank you. I'll sort it out by German (and maybe international) law.

The problem is I refused a German caretaker because I already had someone in Thailand. That was too much for them. Then they isolated me and put me on drugs so they could force me to stay. And it was this German "caretaker" woman that told them to do so.

Sometimes reality is so absurd that I have problems myself to believe it. Fortunately I have all kinds of documentation about this all.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Stop taking Testosterone.

[Rimmer]

Off topic post and a quoted reply have been removed

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Stop taking Testosterone.

Who....?

Me. Back home I would be living alone and have the top pulled off it.

[JockPieandBeans]

What more does one need at 90

Are massage services (for medical reasons of course), provided?

I will be sure to let you know, if either of us is still alive in about 40 years time

[AZBill]

Couldn't imagine living there in the first place. Love to visit though. But no place like home!

[wow64]

Buy an air ticket.

Sent from my c64