4 Marines and gunman killed in attack on two US military sites

[Jingthing]

Yep.

The timing was definitely related to the Ramadan special call for terrorism.

I think it's still on for a little while more, right?

[Loptr]

Perhaps America should pull all troops, military bases and embassies out of the ME.

You know, leave them alone.

In look, another person who believes Islamist Jihad is a 'response'.

Perhaps you need a history lesson on US manipulation in the ME for the last 100 years...

[wabothai]

… Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez of Hixson, Tennessee ...

Geez, how the immigration "laws" have changed the face of America.

Last time I was in Tennessee, most guys were named Billy Bob, or Larry, or Clyde.

or Bubba.

[HeijoshinCool]

Perhaps America should pull all troops, military bases and embassies out of the ME.

You know, leave them alone.

In look, another person who believes Islamist Jihad is a 'response'.

.

The U.S. and the U.K. have been "involving" themselves in the Middle East -- never for altruistic reasons -- since oil was discovered.

Like another poster said, "What goes around comes around."

Sadly, four Marines paid the price for their their "leaders'" meddling.

[sdanielmcev]

If someone has a student visa are they allowed to possess a gun?

If he bought it at a gun show, he doesn't even need to fill out paperwork. Courtesy of the NRA lobbyists.

Nope. Only private sales are exempt, and then only the transfer. All firearms are required to be registered.

[Shot]

Another shooting in Maine now. Too early to know if same ???

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/4-people-shot-in-3-maine-communities-gunman-sought/ar-AAd7yN3

Edited July 17, 2015 by Shot

[Lissos]

Perhaps America should pull all troops, military bases and embassies out of the ME.

You know, leave them alone.

In look, another person who believes Islamist Jihad is a 'response'.

Perhaps you need a history lesson on US manipulation in the ME for the last 100 years...

History lessons from someone who appears to believe Jihad is roughly 100 years old?

God help anyone who attended those myopic 'history' lessons.

[copa8]

USA is getting a taste of real muslims, the kind that started to invade europe 20+ years ago

Plus the kind that are knifing innocent civilians to death in Xinjiang.

[manarak]

Federal authorities said they were investigating the possibility it was an act of terrorism, and the FBI took charge of the case.

A U.S. official speaking on condition of anonymity identified the gunman as 24-year-old Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez of Hixson

yeah, right.

[HeijoshinCool]

Perhaps America should pull all troops, military bases and embassies out of the ME.

You know, leave them alone.

In look, another person who believes Islamist Jihad is a 'response'.

Perhaps you need a history lesson on US manipulation in the ME for the last 100 years...

History lessons from someone who appears to believe Jihad is roughly 100 years old?

God help anyone who attended those myopic 'history' lessons.

..

Loptr didn't say that. He said jihad was a response to a 100 years of meddling.

He is arguably correct.

[Lissos]

The U.S. and the U.K. have been "involving" themselves in the Middle East -- never for altruistic reasons -- since oil was discovered.

Like another poster said, "What goes around comes around."

Sadly, four Marines paid the price for their their "leaders'" meddling.

You do realise that the bulk of 'meddling' within the Middle East since 1917 has been locals meddling with each other for land control and sectarian dominance, don't you? I guess you don't. Western meddling since the carve up of the defeated Ottoman Empire (a meddler with our European sphere, if there ever was one) is overshadowed by the plotting against each other of Arabs in those new states.

The Egyptians meddled with Yemen, operating shadowy covert wars there long ago for regime change, the Syrians and others competed for new territory against other Arab nations in wars that on the surface were uniting against Israel, you name it the biggest meddlers in the middle East since 1917 have been middle easterners doing each other in, overtly or covertly. I maintain that even if Israel was gone and western nations turned their back on the entire region, there will not be - "peace in the middle East". It is inherently volatile and self limiting for a variety of reasons. So no, chickens are not coming home to roost.

[Lissos]

Loptr didn't say that. He said jihad was a response to a 100 years of meddling.

He is arguably correct.

And I maintain that this is fundamentally naive about Jihad. It doesn't respond to individual slights, it is a core momentum and has 'down time' when its flow is stemmed (previously in history, the crushing of the mighty Ottoman Empire, and then the 'squeezing' and containment of Islamists by Secular rulers for decades).

To believe Jihad will cease if the entire region became western connection free, is to be in for a rude shock. Jihad is an outward ongoing momentum whenever it gets the chance / opportunity. Cease all drone attacks, close down Israel, remove all West friendly leaders like Sultan Qaboos and Abdullah II and watch Jihad thrive even more than now. Documentaries on ISIS proved with interviews that they intend to bring it to the west, not because of our so called 'meddling' in the past and present but because it is inherently supposed to unfold globally till total victory, as per Muhammad's very clear instructions and life time examples.

[Johpa]

From most reports today the man was an all-American kid until a DUI arrest last year. What happens to young adults in the US with a DUI is that they go into deep debt with legal fees, imposed fines, and monthly costs of renting those car breathalyzers which in turn cause them daily humiliation. Then they see their career opportunities seriously impeded. All the above imposed perhaps for a single mistake in judgement. Then they can go into a depression and find solace in alcohol and drugs, which may or not have been a chronic issue before the DUI citation, or sometimes they turn to conservative religious groups. Turning to a conservative religious group is not a critical problem to society if the young person turns to a Christian evangelical group or a Jewish Chabad-like group but it is a serious problem to society if they turn to a conservative Islamic group because groups like ISIS represent a conservative interpretation of Islam and not a radical interpretation.

[rapom]

If someone has a student visa are they allowed to possess a gun?

If he bought it at a gun show, he doesn't even need to fill out paperwork. Courtesy of the NRA lobbyists.

Double hogwash. The same paperwork is required at a gun show or at a retail shop. And another thing, the NRA did not make it easier for this radical to commit murder. BATF laws are only complied to by law abiding citizens, criminals have another agenda. Explosive regulations did not prevent the Oklahoma City bombing.

[rapom]

I for one am glad that he targeted a militrary base.

America routinely invades other countries and is in a state of perpetual war.

At least this guy decided to attack the military and not the general population, which is more than can be said for the US armed forces.

Anyone that would make such a statement is pathetic. Maybe after running the British out, we should have stayed, on our side of the ocean. Then most of Europe would be speaking German and Asia, Japanese.

[Thorgal]

Well I thought for a minute the gift of peace would not be visited on mainland U.S this Ramadan, but alas one sneaked in just before the deadline. I wonder whether the Obama administration will reverse its policy of failing to monitor Mosques for fear of being accused of profiling?

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1437123170.957590.jpg

Quote from link :

"Reinhold said authorities were looking into whether it was domestic or international terrorism or "a simple criminal act."

"A U.S. official speaking on condition of anonymity identified the gunman as 24-year-old Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez of Hixson, Tennessee, though the spelling of his first name was in dispute, with federal authorities and records giving at least four variations."

OP doesn't refer that he was a Muslim and acted as a Muslim extremist or terrorist...they even can't spell his name correctly...

Why linking OP to Ramadan ?

Why providing a controlled demolition on Islam ?

Edited July 17, 2015 by Thorgal

[simple1]

Well I thought for a minute the gift of peace would not be visited on mainland U.S this Ramadan, but alas one sneaked in just before the deadline. I wonder whether the Obama administration will reverse its policy of failing to monitor Mosques for fear of being accused of profiling?

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1437123170.957590.jpg

Quote from link :

"Reinhold said authorities were looking into whether it was domestic or international terrorism or "a simple criminal act."

"A U.S. official speaking on condition of anonymity identified the gunman as 24-year-old Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez of Hixson, Tennessee, though the spelling of his first name was in dispute, with federal authorities and records giving at least four variations."

OP doesn't refer that he was a Muslim and acted as a Muslim extremist or terrorist...they even can't spell his name correctly...

Why linking OP to Ramadan ?

Why providing a controlled demolition on Islam ?

Barking up the wrong tree, have a read of content below...

Suspected gunman blogged about Islam days before Tennessee shootings.

http://news.yahoo.com/suspected-gunman-blogged-islam-days-tennessee-shootings-report-233114297.html

[MaxYakov]

[JDGRUEN]

In my opinion the Obama Administration are letting far too many risky people into America... Political Correctness raises its ugly head again... The Obama Admin wouldn't say NO to Attila the Hun ... No matter the lessons that should have been learned from 9-11 and a dozens serious incidents since.

He attended High School and University in the US. That is likely a total of 8+ years, so he wouldn't have been 'let in' by the Obama administration. He would have been a gift from the previous administration.

For more than a decade, Mr. Abdulazeez, his parents and his sisters had made their home in a subdivision called Colonial Shores, just across the Tennessee River from Chattanooga.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/17/us/chattanooga-shooting-suspect-was-ordinary-boy-neighbors-recall.html

I made another response to this and personally I blame Bush and Obama and Congress for allowing any immigration or long term visas for people from Islamic countries. There is a net negative related to their immigration and no redeeming values by their presence in the USA. I do blame Obama for ever increasing immigration of Muslims into the USA far beyond what Bush did... I will blame Obama now for the future shootings and bombings that these imported jihadist will perform. It is not just that they immigrate with this attitude - some do - it is that they are very susceptible to the Jihadi brainwashing which turns them into Terrorists.

I notice that both Administrations have reduced immigration of white Caucasian Christians and Jews from Europe to a trickle ... Hispanics, Muslims from African and Middle East and South Eastern Asia and Asians are preferred. This policy is discriminatory and self-defeating for the country. Bush let bureaucrats run the show on this -- and Obama makes sure it happens now bringing in Somalis and Syrians and who knows who else. The Somalis in Minnesota are constantly in the news accused of sending Jihaies to fight in Syria and elsewhere . It is politically driven insanity to allow more Muslims. The U.S. Congress and our Presidents and especially Obama ignore the will of the people on this issue. There is no Constitutional mandate to do this -- it is just brazen Politically driven WILL...

Edited July 17, 2015 by JDGRUEN

[Scott]

A post with oversized graphic and font removed.

[Neurath]

Perhaps America should pull all troops, military bases and embassies out of the ME.

You know, leave them alone.

Making apologies and excuses for the ISIS inspired terrorist. Oh, that's the ISIS that chops heads off of Christians on the beaches, burns people alive, and throws gays off tall buildings. Excuse me while I vomit. It's interesting this being an international forum that we get all kinds, including Jihadist terrorist apologists.

The ideology of this criminal/terrorist is the causal driver of his deplorable and disgusting actions. Proof positive that the ideology needs to be expunged with deportation for all those who hold beliefs like his and a ban on immigration from muslim countries. Of course, the same does not hold for Dylan Roof or his beliefs. The beliefs explicitly stated by him as the cause of his actions, beliefs shared by so so many, are not causal drivers. The cause of his actions was individual insanity, not the beliefs he professed. Ditto for Aders Brevik.

[JDGRUEN]

Firearms_prohibited_1.jpeg

Firearms_prohibited_2.jpeg

Absolute insanity ... and has been since before the Ft. Hood killings, then again at the Virginia Navy Yard.

There is no justification for leaving military personnel unarmed. They are trained in arms for heavens sake.

Back in the day... The Army paymaster often a 2nd Lieutenant carried .45 Army issue pistol holstered on his hip. The jeep driver often has a rifle and the paymasters assistant carried a side arm. The same for the rotating CQ - -Charge of Quarters in an Army Barracks or important office such as the Personnel Office where Administrative disagreements could possibly arise. The MP's at the gate were armed with rifles -- if not loaded the ammo was very nearby .

There was no reason for the change - just political will of the namby pamby set. These rules are obviously risking the lives of our military.

Considering the open ISIS threats to kill U.S. Military personnel - it is now IMO a CRIMINAL act to continue to prevent our military from defending themselves.

It doesn't take a wholesale allowance of all military personnel to become armed to solve this problem. But each military installation should have a quick reaction center or many centers where arms and ammo are stored. Plus select military personnel should be positioned in each office -- even recruiting offices - if not with open carry weapons - at least with concealed carry weapons. These people could be reviewed, vetted and given training on proper behavior and when to use armed force. Most already know... There are thousands of Concealed Carry trainers with training materials who could be brought in to update the training and instruction on cautionary use of guns.

I strongly suspect when a Conservative or other sensible person wins the White House all this idiocy will change. A President Trump or Cruz will see to it.

Right now -- Obama and his Administration just stand by and watch our military get shot and killed in America - year after year and do nothing to allow the military to even be selectively armed... nothing.

But the Arkansas Governor is doing something .... (Note -- the National Guard and Military Reserves have many full time military to run the part time program.)

Ark. Governor authorizes National Guard to "arm full-time military personnel"

http://www.kait8.com/story/29575959/ark-governor-authorizes-national-guard-to-arm-full-time-military-personnel

[Neurath]

Firearms_prohibited_1.jpeg

Firearms_prohibited_2.jpeg

Absolute insanity ... and has been since before the Ft. Hood killings, then again at the Virginia Navy Yard.

There is no justification for leaving military personnel unarmed. They are trained in arms for heavens sake.

Back in the day... The Army paymaster often a 2nd Lieutenant carried .45 Army issue pistol holstered on his hip. The jeep driver often has a rifle and the paymasters assistant carried a side arm. The same for the rotating CQ - -Charge of Quarters in an Army Barracks or important office such as the Personnel Office where Administrative disagreements could possibly arise. The MP's at the gate were armed with rifles -- if not loaded the ammo was very nearby .

There was no reason for the change - just political will of the namby pamby set. These rules are obviously risking the lives of our military.

Considering the open ISIS threats to kill U.S. Military personnel - it is now IMO a CRIMINAL act to continue to prevent our military from defending themselves.

It doesn't take a wholesale allowance of all military personnel to become armed to solve this problem. But each military installation should have a quick reaction center or many centers where arms and ammo are stored. Plus select military personnel should be positioned in each office -- even recruiting offices - if not with open carry weapons - at least with concealed carry weapons. These people could be reviewed, vetted and given training on proper behavior and when to use armed force. Most already know... There are thousands of Concealed Carry trainers with training materials who could be brought in to update the training and instruction on cautionary use of guns.

I strongly suspect when a Conservative or other sensible person wins the White House all this idiocy will change. A President Trump or Cruz will see to it.

Right now -- Obama and his Administration just stand by and watch our military get shot and killed in America - year after year and do nothing to allow the military to even be selectively armed... nothing.

But the Arkansas Governor is doing something .... (Note -- the National Guard and Military Reserves have many full time military to run the part time program.)

Ark. Governor authorizes National Guard to "arm full-time military personnel"

http://www.kait8.com/story/29575959/ark-governor-authorizes-national-guard-to-arm-full-time-military-personnel

Correct. It's insane. All members of the armed forces, as members of the armed forces, should be allowed to carry their weapons at all times when working in civilian spaces. How else to effectively protect and nurture democratic institutions and a democratic polity? All those who think differently should move to a country that doesn't value democracy and freedom.

[Thorgal]

Well I thought for a minute the gift of peace would not be visited on mainland U.S this Ramadan, but alas one sneaked in just before the deadline. I wonder whether the Obama administration will reverse its policy of failing to monitor Mosques for fear of being accused of profiling?

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1437123170.957590.jpg

Quote from link :

"Reinhold said authorities were looking into whether it was domestic or international terrorism or "a simple criminal act."

"A U.S. official speaking on condition of anonymity identified the gunman as 24-year-old Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez of Hixson, Tennessee, though the spelling of his first name was in dispute, with federal authorities and records giving at least four variations."

OP doesn't refer that he was a Muslim and acted as a Muslim extremist or terrorist...they even can't spell his name correctly...

Why linking OP to Ramadan ?

Why providing a controlled demolition on Islam ?

Barking up the wrong tree, have a read of content below...

Suspected gunman blogged about Islam days before Tennessee shootings.

http://news.yahoo.com/suspected-gunman-blogged-islam-days-tennessee-shootings-report-233114297.html

Quote from your link :

"The SITE Intelligence Group said a July 13 post written by suspected gunman Mohammod Youssuf Abdulazeez stressed the sacrifice of the Sahaba (companions of the Prophet) “fought Jihad for the sake of Allah." Reuters could not independently verify the blog postings."

"The blog sharply contrasts with how friends and neighbors described Abdulazeez: a lover of soccer, someone who never caused trouble and who proudly graduated from college as an engineer."

- SITE intelligence group has remarkable records from the past...

[Steely Dan]

Well I thought for a minute the gift of peace would not be visited on mainland U.S this Ramadan, but alas one sneaked in just before the deadline. I wonder whether the Obama administration will reverse its policy of failing to monitor Mosques for fear of being accused of profiling?

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1437123170.957590.jpg

Quote from link :

"Reinhold said authorities were looking into whether it was domestic or international terrorism or "a simple criminal act."

"A U.S. official speaking on condition of anonymity identified the gunman as 24-year-old Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez of Hixson, Tennessee, though the spelling of his first name was in dispute, with federal authorities and records giving at least four variations."

OP doesn't refer that he was a Muslim and acted as a Muslim extremist or terrorist...they even can't spell his name correctly...

Why linking OP to Ramadan ?

Why providing a controlled demolition on Islam ?

Barking up the wrong tree, have a read of content below...

Suspected gunman blogged about Islam days before Tennessee shootings.

http://news.yahoo.com/suspected-gunman-blogged-islam-days-tennessee-shootings-report-233114297.html

Quote from your link :

"The SITE Intelligence Group said a July 13 post written by suspected gunman Mohammod Youssuf Abdulazeez stressed the sacrifice of the Sahaba (companions of the Prophet) “fought Jihad for the sake of Allah." Reuters could not independently verify the blog postings."

"The blog sharply contrasts with how friends and neighbors described Abdulazeez: a lover of soccer, someone who never caused trouble and who proudly graduated from college as an engineer."

- SITE intelligence group has remarkable records from the past...

Friends and neighbors eh? Long is the list of supposedly normal apparently Integrated Muslims finding religion then shooting up the neighborhood. You are on such a dodgy wicket here that you are only making yourself look ridiculous persisting in denying the link with Islam.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/chattanooga-shooter-marinated-in-self-pity-over-islamophobia/

Edited July 18, 2015 by Steely Dan

[JDGRUEN]

Firearms_prohibited_1.jpeg

Firearms_prohibited_2.jpeg

Absolute insanity ... and has been since before the Ft. Hood killings, then again at the Virginia Navy Yard.

There is no justification for leaving military personnel unarmed. They are trained in arms for heavens sake.

Back in the day... The Army paymaster often a 2nd Lieutenant carried .45 Army issue pistol holstered on his hip. The jeep driver often has a rifle and the paymasters assistant carried a side arm. The same for the rotating CQ - -Charge of Quarters in an Army Barracks or important office such as the Personnel Office where Administrative disagreements could possibly arise. The MP's at the gate were armed with rifles -- if not loaded the ammo was very nearby .

There was no reason for the change - just political will of the namby pamby set. These rules are obviously risking the lives of our military.

Considering the open ISIS threats to kill U.S. Military personnel - it is now IMO a CRIMINAL act to continue to prevent our military from defending themselves.

It doesn't take a wholesale allowance of all military personnel to become armed to solve this problem. But each military installation should have a quick reaction center or many centers where arms and ammo are stored. Plus select military personnel should be positioned in each office -- even recruiting offices - if not with open carry weapons - at least with concealed carry weapons. These people could be reviewed, vetted and given training on proper behavior and when to use armed force. Most already know... There are thousands of Concealed Carry trainers with training materials who could be brought in to update the training and instruction on cautionary use of guns.

I strongly suspect when a Conservative or other sensible person wins the White House all this idiocy will change. A President Trump or Cruz will see to it.

Right now -- Obama and his Administration just stand by and watch our military get shot and killed in America - year after year and do nothing to allow the military to even be selectively armed... nothing.

But the Arkansas Governor is doing something .... (Note -- the National Guard and Military Reserves have many full time military to run the part time program.)

Ark. Governor authorizes National Guard to "arm full-time military personnel"

http://www.kait8.com/story/29575959/ark-governor-authorizes-national-guard-to-arm-full-time-military-personnel

Correct. It's insane. All members of the armed forces, as members of the armed forces, should be allowed to carry their weapons at all times when working in civilian spaces. How else to effectively protect and nurture democratic institutions and a democratic polity? All those who think differently should move to a country that doesn't value democracy and freedom.

Your hyperbole leaves no mark ... I am not - nor is anyone I know of promoting that military personnel be allowed to protect themselves when on military installations... What they do in their off duty time in states that allow Concealed Carry is their business. The only exception I suggested is they be allows to protect themselves in Recruiting centers -- private offices leased or owned by the military -- and suggested using Concealed Carry ... I am not promoting any sort of Armed state with soldiers running around in civilian communities with arms.

BUT of course being of the liberal-Left- Progressive persuasion I see that you perform the standard function of exaggeration, embellishment and twisting of words and outright fabrication of fact to soil opposing opinion... But it did not work ... too bad...

[MaxYakov]

Firearms_prohibited_1.jpeg

Firearms_prohibited_2.jpeg

Absolute insanity ... and has been since before the Ft. Hood killings, then again at the Virginia Navy Yard.

There is no justification for leaving military personnel unarmed. They are trained in arms for heavens sake.

Back in the day... The Army paymaster often a 2nd Lieutenant carried .45 Army issue pistol holstered on his hip. The jeep driver often has a rifle and the paymasters assistant carried a side arm. The same for the rotating CQ - -Charge of Quarters in an Army Barracks or important office such as the Personnel Office where Administrative disagreements could possibly arise. The MP's at the gate were armed with rifles -- if not loaded the ammo was very nearby .

There was no reason for the change - just political will of the namby pamby set. These rules are obviously risking the lives of our military.

Considering the open ISIS threats to kill U.S. Military personnel - it is now IMO a CRIMINAL act to continue to prevent our military from defending themselves.

It doesn't take a wholesale allowance of all military personnel to become armed to solve this problem. But each military installation should have a quick reaction center or many centers where arms and ammo are stored. Plus select military personnel should be positioned in each office -- even recruiting offices - if not with open carry weapons - at least with concealed carry weapons. These people could be reviewed, vetted and given training on proper behavior and when to use armed force. Most already know... There are thousands of Concealed Carry trainers with training materials who could be brought in to update the training and instruction on cautionary use of guns.

I strongly suspect when a Conservative or other sensible person wins the White House all this idiocy will change. A President Trump or Cruz will see to it.

Right now -- Obama and his Administration just stand by and watch our military get shot and killed in America - year after year and do nothing to allow the military to even be selectively armed... nothing.

But the Arkansas Governor is doing something .... (Note -- the National Guard and Military Reserves have many full time military to run the part time program.)

Ark. Governor authorizes National Guard to "arm full-time military personnel"

http://www.kait8.com/story/29575959/ark-governor-authorizes-national-guard-to-arm-full-time-military-personnel

From what I understand, these were recruiting offices and it was felt that the presence of firearms would make potential recruits uncomfortable. That would explain why the large sign on the door to reassure the visitors so that they would be able to be more at ease.

The irony is that this made them a well-advertised and guaranteed soft target. In hindsight, they could have at least been provided with Kevlar. Perhaps they will in the future, but I wouldn't bet on it. More likely that they'd position them behind the common five inches of Lexan (aka bullet-resistant plastic). That would be reassuring, of course.

Another irony is why would the military be recruiting individuals that felt uncomfortable around firearms?

A specious question IMHO w/r USN (SEALS excepted), but the Marines? They're going to make trained killers out of most of them. Just have to get them to sign up.

I don't have a major problem with the generally unarmed base personnel, as long as the environment is adequately defended. If personnel were all armed, one of them could flip and still take out several before he or she is taken down. Also, relatively minor beefs between individuals or groups could escalate into armed confrontations. Then there is also the potential for accidental shootings.

An example of a "Green-on-Blue" Attack where probably most were armed but severe damage was still done (one of many examples): The Killing of US Major General Harold Greene - ibtimes.com

It's a dilemma. We are at war and the situation in the USA could escalate and necessitate policy changes.

Edited July 18, 2015 by MaxYakov

[Neurath]

Firearms_prohibited_1.jpeg

Firearms_prohibited_2.jpeg

Absolute insanity ... and has been since before the Ft. Hood killings, then again at the Virginia Navy Yard.

There is no justification for leaving military personnel unarmed. They are trained in arms for heavens sake.

Back in the day... The Army paymaster often a 2nd Lieutenant carried .45 Army issue pistol holstered on his hip. The jeep driver often has a rifle and the paymasters assistant carried a side arm. The same for the rotating CQ - -Charge of Quarters in an Army Barracks or important office such as the Personnel Office where Administrative disagreements could possibly arise. The MP's at the gate were armed with rifles -- if not loaded the ammo was very nearby .

There was no reason for the change - just political will of the namby pamby set. These rules are obviously risking the lives of our military.

Considering the open ISIS threats to kill U.S. Military personnel - it is now IMO a CRIMINAL act to continue to prevent our military from defending themselves.

It doesn't take a wholesale allowance of all military personnel to become armed to solve this problem. But each military installation should have a quick reaction center or many centers where arms and ammo are stored. Plus select military personnel should be positioned in each office -- even recruiting offices - if not with open carry weapons - at least with concealed carry weapons. These people could be reviewed, vetted and given training on proper behavior and when to use armed force. Most already know... There are thousands of Concealed Carry trainers with training materials who could be brought in to update the training and instruction on cautionary use of guns.

I strongly suspect when a Conservative or other sensible person wins the White House all this idiocy will change. A President Trump or Cruz will see to it.

Right now -- Obama and his Administration just stand by and watch our military get shot and killed in America - year after year and do nothing to allow the military to even be selectively armed... nothing.

But the Arkansas Governor is doing something .... (Note -- the National Guard and Military Reserves have many full time military to run the part time program.)

Ark. Governor authorizes National Guard to "arm full-time military personnel"

http://www.kait8.com/story/29575959/ark-governor-authorizes-national-guard-to-arm-full-time-military-personnel

Correct. It's insane. All members of the armed forces, as members of the armed forces, should be allowed to carry their weapons at all times when working in civilian spaces. How else to effectively protect and nurture democratic institutions and a democratic polity? All those who think differently should move to a country that doesn't value democracy and freedom.

Your hyperbole leaves no mark ... I am not - nor is anyone I know of promoting that military personnel be allowed to protect themselves when on military installations... What they do in their off duty time in states that allow Concealed Carry is their business. The only exception I suggested is they be allows to protect themselves in Recruiting centers -- private offices leased or owned by the military -- and suggested using Concealed Carry ... I am not promoting any sort of Armed state with soldiers running around in civilian communities with arms.

BUT of course being of the liberal-Left- Progressive persuasion I see that you perform the standard function of exaggeration, embellishment and twisting of words and outright fabrication of fact to soil opposing opinion... But it did not work ... too bad...

Correct. The owners of commercial property on which government agencies or private persons rent space should in no way be allowed to dictate that those so renting not be armed. Insofar as it is a right to carry weapons, that right should not be overruled by the rights of property owners. This sounds reasonable, and has about the right balance.

I see nothing wrong with military personnel being armed at all times on military bases. They should not give up their right to self-defense from lunatics and religious extremists simply because they have joined the armed forces. Had people been properly armed at Fort Hood, the bad guy might have been taken down before he did much damage. What goes there, goes for schools and churches also.

In no way would I seek to soil your opinion. It would be foolish and redundant in equal measure. This is proved by your liking my post #81 above

Edited July 18, 2015 by Neurath