neilrob Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I have a question about Thai law on this matter. I would be most grateful for information on what the law actually says (as opposed to what people usually do/what someone thinks the law says). I am asking this because I am on a condo committee and we are dealing with this issue. If I were running a hotel and a foreigner stayed there, I would have to report this to immigration.That is easy, because the foreigner would have to register at the front desk before staying there. If I own a house and rent it to a foreigner, then I must report this. If the house is in a moobaan, I believe this obligation is still mine, it is not the responsibilty of the moobaan association. So what about a condo? If I rent to a foreigner, is it my obligation to report this to immigration or is it the responsibility of the condo juristic person? A condo is much more like a moobaan than it is like a hotel, because the units are individually owned. Furthermore, the condo juristic person normally has no knowledge that a particular foreigner is staying there---it is a matter between the owner and the renter. In a large (almost 350 unit) condo, it is not practical for the juristic person to know who is sleeping there on any particular night. So what does the law actually say? Is it the responsibility of the owner or the association? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The condo owner is responsible for doing the report. From the immigration act."The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilrob Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Thank you very much for the reply. Do you have a paragraph reference and the precise name of the law in question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowretired Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Thank you very much for the reply. Do you have a paragraph reference and the precise name of the law in question? http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf Sect 38 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilrob Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Many thanks to Ubonjoe and Nowretired for your prompt and to the point replies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotpoom Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The condo owner is responsible for doing the report. From the immigration act."The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence". Just common sense really....isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sooo Upto Me Posted July 17, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2015 The condo owner is responsible for doing the report. From the immigration act."The house master , the owner or the possessor of the residence". Just common sense really....isn't it? If it was common sense he wouldn't be asking in the first place would he. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recom273 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 That's until there is a fine to payed - through experience my immigration didn't go chasing the owner or 'house master' they first asked my wife to report to the office, when I couldn't get hold her on the phone they told me to pay up. I rent the whole house, my landlord failed in his duty, therefore I was responsible for 1800b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If you have rental or lease agreement you can be considered the possessor of the house and can do the report yourself or be fined for not doing it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonclark Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The condo owner is responsible for doing the report. From the immigration act."The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence". But would I be right in assuming then that if you are a home owner / master and do the 90 day reporting as part of your non O extension there is no need for a seperate report? Also would having a Tor Ror 13 (yellow book) suffice - although not issued by immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The condo owner is responsible for doing the report. From the immigration act."The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence". But would I be right in assuming then that if you are a home owner / master and do the 90 day reporting as part of your non O extension there is no need for a seperate report? Also would having a Tor Ror 13 (yellow book) suffice - although not issued by immigration. At most offices you would not need to report. But others might. The yellow book is not enough. There are a couple of immigration offices want a report of residence every year before you can apply for your extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arunsakda Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I own my condo and (Don't stay long as I work overseas and only come during off time). I write my full address on my arrival card. Does not seem this satisfies requirements of the Immigration act and I am in violation then as I'm sure the Condo management is not reporting my comings and goings. I do not care to go to Immigration on my free time. Is there a way to make this report online, or should I just not bother? I have never had to do a 90 day report and in the years since I bought my room this issue has never come up. Edited July 17, 2015 by arunsakda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquorice Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I own my condo and (Don't stay long as I work overseas and only come during off time). I write my full address on my arrival card. Does not seem this satisfies requirements of the Immigration act and I am in violation then as I'm sure the Condo management is not reporting my comings and goings. I do not care to go to Immigration on my free time. Is there a way to make this report online, or should I just not bother? I have never had to do a 90 day report and in the years since I bought my room this issue has never come up. By the letter of the law, as a Condo owner you should complete a TM30 each time you take up residence again after working overseas. It can be posted to your local Immigration. However as you don't report to an Immigration office or have a local file/record, then your TM30 might well end up in the trash. Just be aware you could be fined for not complying with the law, but in your circumstances the chances of someone knocking on your door is highly unlikely. Your decision at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Thelotofem Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 What is the likely/specified fine amount if the "house-master" fails to make the report within 24 hours, or at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 From immigration act. Section 77 : Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a fine not exceeding 2,000 Baht. If said person is a hotel manager, he shall be punished with a fine from 2,000 Baht to 10,000 Baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Thelotofem Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Thanks UbonJoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) If you have rental or lease agreement you can be considered the possessor of the house and can do the report yourself or be fined for not doing it. Really? I've rented a house from a foreign landlord for over 4 years. I've suggested he report my occupancy, but he hasn't done it yet. I'm responsible for doing this? and can be fined if I don't? Edited July 18, 2015 by tropo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 If you have rental or lease agreement you can be considered the possessor of the house and can do the report yourself or be fined for not doing it. Really? I've rented a house from a foreign landlord for over 4 years. I've suggested he report my occupancy, but he hasn't done it yet. I'm responsible for doing this? and can be fined if I don't? If the rental agreement is in your name you can be fined for not submitting a TM30 to report yourself. Their have been cases where a Thai wife or girl friend name was on the agreement being being told to do the report and in a few cases being fined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 If you have rental or lease agreement you can be considered the possessor of the house and can do the report yourself or be fined for not doing it. Really? I've rented a house from a foreign landlord for over 4 years. I've suggested he report my occupancy, but he hasn't done it yet. I'm responsible for doing this? and can be fined if I don't? If the rental agreement is in your name you can be fined for not submitting a TM30 to report yourself. Their have been cases where a Thai wife or girl friend name was on the agreement being being told to do the report and in a few cases being fined. I report myself every 90 days - that's not sufficient? Yes, the lease agreement is in mine and my foreign wife's name. I was under the impression it was the landlord's responsibility to report foreign tenants. If the tenants are responsible, and are the ones to be fined for non-compliance, then why would landlords even bother doing this? In my case I won't do anything. If I get fined, I'll take it out of the rent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 When you rent a house, you become its possessor. The owner no longer has any rights of possession. You have gained the exclusive right to use the house, to live in it, and to decide who else lives in the house with you. You are the "housemaster", as defined by section 4 of the Immigration Act, the "chief possessor" of the residence in your capacity as the tenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arunsakda Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) So let's say I arrive in CM June 18, and post a TM30. I stay until June 24. Then I leave for 5 days work returning to CMJune 29. I then stay until July 11. Then I plan on staying away about 6 week until say 16 of August. Does the TM30 posted June 30 satisfy the requirements for a given period of time or do I have to post another TM30 each time I take up residence (June 18, 29, and August 16). No other Alien will take up residence whilst I am away. Fussing with stamps and envelopes onerous and burdensome. I wonder how a large Hotel such as the Westin Grande Sukhumvit, with hundreds of Alien comings and goings daily can satisfy this requirement. Thus my query if it is possible online? Edited July 19, 2015 by arunsakda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 So let's say I arrive in CM June 18, and post a TM30. I stay until June 24. Then I leave for 5 days work returning to CMJune 29. I then stay until July 11. Then I plan on staying away about 6 week until say 16 of August. Does the TM30 posted June 30 satisfy the requirements for a given period of time or do I have to post another TM30 each time I take up residence (June 18, 29, and August 16). No other Alien will take up residence whilst I am away. Fussing with stamps and envelopes onerous and burdensome. I wonder how a large Hotel such as the Westin Grande Sukhumvit, with hundreds of Alien comings and goings daily can satisfy this requirement. Thus my query if it is possible online? If asked to do the report once should be enough. Just keep the receipt for it. Hotels and other businesses can do the reporting online after registering to do them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recom273 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 If you have rental or lease agreement you can be considered the possessor of the house and can do the report yourself or be fined for not doing it.Really? I've rented a house from a foreign landlord for over 4 years. I've suggested he report my occupancy, but he hasn't done it yet. I'm responsible for doing this? and can be fined if I don't? If the rental agreement is in your name you can be fined for not submitting a TM30 to report yourself.Their have been cases where a Thai wife or girl friend name was on the agreement being being told to do the report and in a few cases being fined. I report myself every 90 days - that's not sufficient?Yes, the lease agreement is in mine and my foreign wife's name. I was under the impression it was the landlord's responsibility to report foreign tenants. If the tenants are responsible, and are the ones to be fined for non-compliance, then why would landlords even bother doing this? In my case I won't do anything. If I get fined, I'll take it out of the rent. In my case I requested a certificate of residence, they printed off my entry document, which had a scan of my passport data page and a photo standing in front of the immigration window. There was my address I used on my TM6 and under a space for my TM30/28 address which was left blank. I had never done this in the 6 years prior or within 15 years of coming to Thailand, and they charged me 1800b for the 2 months since I last entered. I had never been fined before despite applying for extensions and residence certificates in the past, but on this occasion they said they had designated the position of checker to a new girl. If you don't request anything from immigration then you will be fine, most offices don't even enforce this law. I just count myself as unlucky, but have continued to keep up the reporting, even though it's not even clear from immigration that they require a TM30 or 28 (?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
april81 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Hi there, to do the report to the immigration, we have to provide only the TM 30 ? Thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recom273 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Hi there, to do the report to the immigration, we have to provide only the TM 30 ? Thanks for your help I reported myself on behalf of the housemaster - my wife - I needed a copy of her ID card and a copy of the tabian baan ( housebook ) The passport and entry card seemed of little relevance - 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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