methyl Vit B12 injections - from a chemist?

[flightofancy]

Hi

I've heard these injections can be good for energy. I want to try one. I understand you used to be able to get them from a chemist near Tae Phae gate but not any more. And you have to inject yourself in the bum.

Otherwise is there a clinic that will do an injection at a reasonable price? So I can monitor to see if they help me.

Thanks.

by the way - methyl version is the natural version - ready for use by the liver in phase 2 detoxification reactions. The cheap Cyanide version produces cyanide as part of the body's cleaving of it before it can use it. so that's a mess for the liver to clean up.

Also I got some methyl B12 tablets - from a chemist here - they're from Japan where they're widely prescribed for neurological problems. Haven't noticed any effect from them ... so maybe my body is not able to absorb properly through the small intestine... i have heard of under the tongue tablets and suppositories but don't think you can get them in Thailand - buy online iherb...

[arunsakda]

It has been clearly established since 1960s that you can get all and more of the b12 you need through foods and oral supplements. Cheap and effective. From a patients point of view injections feel like doing something important. b12 deficiency is a real thing, and yes there are tests for it. I know b12 injections are common and you will probably be able to find a quacksalver or chemist to SELL you one. It is not dangerous. They make a tidy profit and you feel better due to the ritual of placebo and coming in for appointments, creating an illusion of effectiveness, and thus you will be back soon for more injections, and the cash flow for the Doctor's surgery is nice too .

It is still pure charlatanism, whether or not there is a real Medical Degree in the wall.

[sharktooth]

I got the injections here a few months ago. Can't remember how much it was, but it wasn't expensive...

GENERAL PRACTISE

Dr Morgan

HCMC Clinic,

Hang Dong Road.

(almost opposite Tesco)

Monday-Friday 08.30-19.30 Hrs

Saturday 8.30 - 13.00 Hrs

053 804405

http://www.healthcar...icalclinic.com/

[Cheesekraft]

you can buy sublingual b12 tablets that are comparative for cheap online. What kind of "energy" do you mean exactly? http://examine.com/supplements/Vitamin+B12/

B12 is not particularly effective for this reason, unless you are a vegetarian, and then it is a necessary supplement along with creatine.

Creatine, vitamin d3 (softgel), coconut oil, sam-E, Rhodiola Rosea and beta alanine are all going to be much better for energy than B12. Modafinil if you could get it is a powerhouse, but it mostly just eliminates the 'fatigueability'.

[bangmai]

It has been clearly established since 1960s that you can get all and more of the b12 you need through foods and oral supplements. Cheap and effective. From a patients point of view injections feel like doing something important. b12 deficiency is a real thing, and yes there are tests for it. I know b12 injections are common and you will probably be able to find a quacksalver or chemist to SELL you one. It is not dangerous. They make a tidy profit and you feel better due to the ritual of placebo and coming in for appointments, creating an illusion of effectiveness, and thus you will be back soon for more injections, and the cash flow for the Doctor's surgery is nice too .

It is still pure charlatanism, whether or not there is a real Medical Degree in the wall.

I agree 100%. This has been beaten to death before. I posted a couple of studies stating that the injections were no better than taking it orally. This included a large study by the Canadian Government showing doctors were unnecessarily prescribing it to old people.

Canadian Government agency says it wastes millions of CDN. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3874775/

[northernjohn]

I got the injections here a few months ago. Can't remember how much it was, but it wasn't expensive...

GENERAL PRACTISE

Dr Morgan

HCMC Clinic,

Hang Dong Road.

(almost opposite Tesco)

Monday-Friday 08.30-19.30 Hrs

Saturday 8.30 - 13.00 Hrs

053 804405

http://www.healthcar...icalclinic.com/

My doctor is also Doctor Morgan. I was getting them once a month for my Neuropathy. They helped a little but I would have to go back every week to get the help. I now buy the under the tongue 5,000mcg from I Herb and take one a day in the morning. Generally about 4 to 5 hours before my nap. So much for the energy in my case.

Does any one know the difference between 5,000mg and 5,000 mcg? Twice a year my liver is checked and it is fine. Some people have told me it was not good for the liver.

[bangmai]

I got the injections here a few months ago. Can't remember how much it was, but it wasn't expensive...

GENERAL PRACTISE

Dr Morgan

HCMC Clinic,

Hang Dong Road.

(almost opposite Tesco)

Monday-Friday 08.30-19.30 Hrs

Saturday 8.30 - 13.00 Hrs

053 804405

http://www.healthcar...icalclinic.com/

My doctor is also Doctor Morgan. I was getting them once a month for my Neuropathy. They helped a little but I would have to go back every week to get the help. I now buy the under the tongue 5,000mcg from I Herb and take one a day in the morning. Generally about 4 to 5 hours before my nap. So much for the energy in my case.

Does any one know the difference between 5,000mg and 5,000 mcg? Twice a year my liver is checked and it is fine. Some people have told me it was not good for the liver.

mcg is one millionth of a gram...mg is one thousandth of a gram.....a tab of blotter acid is 50-100 "mics" or mcg. 5000 mg=5 grams or the weight of a US Nickel or twice the weight of a US Penny 5000 mcg=.005 grams. A good size bong-hit is .05 grams.

[landtrout]

I got the injections here a few months ago. Can't remember how much it was, but it wasn't expensive...

GENERAL PRACTISE

Dr Morgan

HCMC Clinic,

Hang Dong Road.

(almost opposite Tesco)

Monday-Friday 08.30-19.30 Hrs

Saturday 8.30 - 13.00 Hrs

053 804405

http://www.healthcar...icalclinic.com/

My doctor is also Doctor Morgan. I was getting them once a month for my Neuropathy. They helped a little but I would have to go back every week to get the help. I now buy the under the tongue 5,000mcg from I Herb and take one a day in the morning. Generally about 4 to 5 hours before my nap. So much for the energy in my case.

Does any one know the difference between 5,000mg and 5,000 mcg? Twice a year my liver is checked and it is fine. Some people have told me it was not good for the liver.

mcg is one millionth of a gram...mg is one thousandth of a gram.....a tab of blotter acid is 50-100 "mics" or mcg. 5000 mg=5 grams or the weight of a US Nickel or twice the weight of a US Penny 5000 mcg=.005 grams. A good size bong-hit is .05 grams.

Thanks for "weighing in" on this one, banglander!

It doesn't surprise me to find that you know your way around milligrams and micrograms, and I can't really say that the fact that you seem well acquainted with blotter acid and "bong- hits" comes as any great shock either. In more ways than one, it all makes sense now!

[northernjohn]

I got the injections here a few months ago. Can't remember how much it was, but it wasn't expensive...

GENERAL PRACTISE

Dr Morgan

HCMC Clinic,

Hang Dong Road.

(almost opposite Tesco)

Monday-Friday 08.30-19.30 Hrs

Saturday 8.30 - 13.00 Hrs

053 804405

http://www.healthcar...icalclinic.com/

My doctor is also Doctor Morgan. I was getting them once a month for my Neuropathy. They helped a little but I would have to go back every week to get the help. I now buy the under the tongue 5,000mcg from I Herb and take one a day in the morning. Generally about 4 to 5 hours before my nap. So much for the energy in my case.

Does any one know the difference between 5,000mg and 5,000 mcg? Twice a year my liver is checked and it is fine. Some people have told me it was not good for the liver.

mcg is one millionth of a gram...mg is one thousandth of a gram.....a tab of blotter acid is 50-100 "mics" or mcg. 5000 mg=5 grams or the weight of a US Nickel or twice the weight of a US Penny 5000 mcg=.005 grams. A good size bong-hit is .05 grams.

Does any one know the difference between Methylcobalamin (Vitamin B12) and B-12 (Cyanocobalamin Also vitamin b12 - dibencozide. currently using 21st CENTURY. It seems to be listed in all three categories on iHerb. I am using it for Neuropathy. Seems to help a bit. Incidentally I just copied those names off iHerb. Mods if needs be go ahead and move it to the medical thread. Was hoping some one here in Chiang Mai might have an answer as it is based on a question asked here.

[bangmai]

I got the injections here a few months ago. Can't remember how much it was, but it wasn't expensive...

GENERAL PRACTISE

Dr Morgan

HCMC Clinic,

Hang Dong Road.

(almost opposite Tesco)

Monday-Friday 08.30-19.30 Hrs

Saturday 8.30 - 13.00 Hrs

053 804405

http://www.healthcar...icalclinic.com/

My doctor is also Doctor Morgan. I was getting them once a month for my Neuropathy. They helped a little but I would have to go back every week to get the help. I now buy the under the tongue 5,000mcg from I Herb and take one a day in the morning. Generally about 4 to 5 hours before my nap. So much for the energy in my case.

Does any one know the difference between 5,000mg and 5,000 mcg? Twice a year my liver is checked and it is fine. Some people have told me it was not good for the liver.

mcg is one millionth of a gram...mg is one thousandth of a gram.....a tab of blotter acid is 50-100 "mics" or mcg. 5000 mg=5 grams or the weight of a US Nickel or twice the weight of a US Penny 5000 mcg=.005 grams. A good size bong-hit is .05 grams.

Thanks for "weighing in" on this one, banglander!

It doesn't surprise me to find that you know your way around milligrams and micrograms, and I can't really say that the fact that you seem well acquainted with blotter acid and "bong- hits" comes as any great shock either. In more ways than one, it all makes sense now!

Learned it all from my students, John. I watched a lot of Dragnet, too.

[flightofancy]

I've noticed there are a lot of know all replies like this to health posts on Thai Visa... someone asks for some help and the poster replies with a THAT"S QUACKERY kick back reply.

How you feel you know it all about my body's ability to absorb nutrients is beyond me. If you're going to poo poo something send the Medline evidence of studies to back it up.

It has been clearly established since 1960s that you can get all and more of the b12 you need through foods and oral supplements. Cheap and effective. From a patients point of view injections feel like doing something important. b12 deficiency is a real thing, and yes there are tests for it. I know b12 injections are common and you will probably be able to find a quacksalver or chemist to SELL you one. It is not dangerous. They make a tidy profit and you feel better due to the ritual of placebo and coming in for appointments, creating an illusion of effectiveness, and thus you will be back soon for more injections, and the cash flow for the Doctor's surgery is nice too .

It is still pure charlatanism, whether or not there is a real Medical Degree in the wall.

[flightofancy]

Body is kicking out aceteldehydes in poo and sweat. Acetaldehydes are break down product of yeast / fungal infections. Have severe asthma reaction to fungus in the air including mouldy aircon. Episodes prior to this aceteldehyde poo is nausea, fatigue, brain fog, mood swings - basically feeling poisoned.

sudden wheezing linked to nausea symptoms, certain foods.

Think it's liver phase 2 blockage... methylation... looked at this onlline. methylation is how the body deals with acetaldeydes.

B12 is a liver co-factor.

ACcording to online sources, some people are slow methylaters.. so can't process the precursor to methyl B12 to make it into the usable form. Possibly I'm one of these - whether temporarily or genetically. I don't know.

Bad guts, difficulty absorbing from small intestine. Lot of gas and digestive upset. seem to be dysbiosis - possibly yeast, possibly bacterial , possibly both. B12 is made by good bacteria in gut. Therefore possible shortage of B12 due to both these issues.

Therefore hypothesising B12 may be helpful - injections to bypass the small intestine. Methyl version better to test hypothesis.

If injections show definite result, I can test the sub lingual route and see how that is. If that is OK the go with sublingual as cheaper / more practical.

It is just an option. And may not be beneficial. ONly way to find out is to try.

Does that answer your questions?

you can buy sublingual b12 tablets that are comparative for cheap online. What kind of "energy" do you mean exactly? http://examine.com/supplements/Vitamin+B12/

B12 is not particularly effective for this reason, unless you are a vegetarian, and then it is a necessary supplement along with creatine.

Creatine, vitamin d3 (softgel), coconut oil, sam-E, Rhodiola Rosea and beta alanine are all going to be much better for energy than B12. Modafinil if you could get it is a powerhouse, but it mostly just eliminates the 'fatigueability'.

[flightofancy]

Does any one know the difference between Methylcobalamin (Vitamin B12) and B-12 (Cyanocobalamin Also vitamin b12 - dibencozide. currently using 21st CENTURY. It seems to be listed in all three categories on iHerb. I am using it for Neuropathy. Seems to help a bit. Incidentally I just copied those names off iHerb. Mods if needs be go ahead and move it to the medical thread. Was hoping some one here in Chiang Mai might have an answer as it is based on a question asked here.

MY understanding from reading online is that the CN version is synthetic. and when your liver cleaves it in order to make the usable form - methyl cobolamin... a cyanide molecule is released... which is poisonous and needs neutralising.

Also read that the synthetic version can actually block uptake of the methyl version - in which case it's acting as a negative vitamin.

The methyl version is useful for people who have trouble methylating the precursor. This is people who are slow methylators. Being a slow methylater seems to be the latest health trend. YOu can get tested for $500 to find out if you are a slow methylater. Personally I'd rather just try the different options by trial and error to see which work and save myself the $500... since no tests are 100% accurate in any case.

I have bought Methyl cobolamin tablets in pharmacies here in Chiang Mai. Assuming your guts can absorb B12 OK you would be fine with these tablets, I would think... otherwise csonder under the tongue or injectiosn... it maybe possible to find suppositories too.

[DogNo1]

I find Methylcobal tablets and Neurobion (vitamins 1, 6 & 12) tablets easily available at pharmacies in Bangkok for a reasonable price but not as cheap as the vitamins on iherb. They are effective for treating peripheral neuropathy but are said to narrow the cardiac arteries which is not good for people like me who have stents in their arteries.

[arunsakda]

I got the injections here a few months ago. Can't remember how much it was, but it wasn't expensive...

GENERAL PRACTISE

Dr Morgan

HCMC Clinic,

Hang Dong Road.

(almost opposite Tesco)

Monday-Friday 08.30-19.30 Hrs

Saturday 8.30 - 13.00 Hrs

053 804405

http://www.healthcar...icalclinic.com/

I'm not saying that Dr. Morgan is a quack, far from it. The fact that otherwise qualified physicians prescribe medically unnecessary but harmless injections is not news to me.

I just feel it is unethical. Unless provided at cost or below cost, without profit to clinic or practitioner.

If I was offered a b12 injection it would not work on me, as I am familiar with the science and thus immune from the placebo effect. To work otherwise would require me to be presented with a great deal of contradictory studies and literature. These studies and literature do not exist other than bunk science which is propagated on the internet or simiar BS self help books. Again it would require me to be influenced only by the power of the mind deceived. There is no medical justification for b12 injections, unless the case perhaps where ones lower gut has been largely removed by surgery or compromised in some other way. Don't waste your monies.

[northernjohn]

Does any one know the difference between Methylcobalamin (Vitamin B12) and B-12 (Cyanocobalamin Also vitamin b12 - dibencozide. currently using 21st CENTURY. It seems to be listed in all three categories on iHerb. I am using it for Neuropathy. Seems to help a bit. Incidentally I just copied those names off iHerb. Mods if needs be go ahead and move it to the medical thread. Was hoping some one here in Chiang Mai might have an answer as it is based on a question asked here.

MY understanding from reading online is that the CN version is synthetic. and when your liver cleaves it in order to make the usable form - methyl cobolamin... a cyanide molecule is released... which is poisonous and needs neutralising.

Also read that the synthetic version can actually block uptake of the methyl version - in which case it's acting as a negative vitamin.

The methyl version is useful for people who have trouble methylating the precursor. This is people who are slow methylators. Being a slow methylater seems to be the latest health trend. YOu can get tested for $500 to find out if you are a slow methylater. Personally I'd rather just try the different options by trial and error to see which work and save myself the $500... since no tests are 100% accurate in any case.

I have bought Methyl cobolamin tablets in pharmacies here in Chiang Mai. Assuming your guts can absorb B12 OK you would be fine with these tablets, I would think... otherwise csonder under the tongue or injectiosn... it maybe possible to find suppositories too.

I still find it confusing several sites I looked at said one thing and then I looked at Wikipedia and it did say B12 was good for Neuropathy. None of the other sites had said that. From what I gathered on Wikipedia my best bet would be Methylcobalamin (Vitamin B12) So I have ordered a bottle of it.

I was and still am confused on iHerb when I look each one of them up they all have the 21st century brand with the identical properties. So far it has been a relief but if I can improve on it I will.