SURVEY: Should Coffee Houses and Fast Food Restaurants be allowed to Charge an Overstay Fee?

[Scott]

Recently a coffee house was allowed by the Consumer Protection Board to charge people for overstaying. Do you think it is fair to charge people who overstay in a coffee house or fast food restaurant and conduct business to charge an additional fee?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/841452-coffee-house-has-right-to-charge-overstaying-fee/

Please feel free to post a comment and let us know your thoughts and also what you consider overstaying.

[Credo]

I voted 'yes', but actually, I think they should just kick them out. Setting up shop in a coffee house or anywhere else, is just plain wrong.

Every few months I have to make an inconvenient trip into the heart of BKK for a routine medical appointment. I usually stop at the nearby McDonald's and get a quick bite to eat before going and once in a while I go back after for a cup of coffee. On numerous occasions I have been unable to find a place to sit because of freeloaders, many of whom are sitting there when I arrive and still their well over 2 hours later when I am finished.

If you want to have a business meeting, then do it in an office. If you want to tutor students, then do it in a classroom. If you want to have a coffee and a snack, that is what these places are for.

[Jessi]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said.

The owners of these shops are usually paying big rent and have a lot of money invested in their business.

This is world wide not just in Thailand.

I made inquiry last week about getting retail space in the new Central shopping mall in Korat,

forget it, they want 800,000B key money. That will give you an idea of the money some of these business

invest.

[canuckamuck]

Just because a store is open to the public doesn't mean the owner can't set the rules. People using up chairs and blocking business, while at the same time not allowing the owner to profit from their usage of his property, is an unworkable business model.

Not a big problem in a store that that is rarely full, but a major headache in a busy shop.

[trogers]

This is why such establishments have only standing tables and no chairs in the UK.

[Crossy]

Not sure if it's the same now, but in the '90s the Korean coffee shop model was that you were actually paying for the sitting space and the coffee was effectively free. The reasoning was that coffee shops were favourite meeting places for courting couples who simply wanted a place to talk out of the cold/rain/heat.

Could it work here??

[cucme]

Strictly No!

Why not just ask them to leave.

And I can't see how a coffee shop makes 1.000 Baht profit with a table in an hour.

[kg1947]

the OWNER can set a time limit per consumption , but how to enforce it ?

sone people might have NOWHERE ELSE to go , that's why they hang around Coffee Shops.

In case of business meetings & tutoring sessions - the owner just have to be firm in their

policy , but don't kick out just anybody who overstay .

[oneday]

Poorly conceived poll. There should have been a choice...

Businesses can charge whatever they want as long as it is clearly posted and fair warning is given when the charges are very large.

Redo the poll.

[bendejo]

It makes sense. I've been in places that were full with students doing homework. Not only are they not buying stuff, but they are keeping out the would-be customers.

On the other hand I can see greedy manipulation of the rule, eg the boss writes down the time you are served, 20 minutes later the meter ticks up and there ensues an ugly "you pay now!" incident. Or it can get like the bars where they swipe away your beer when it half-full and sell you another one.

[Johnnie99]

It's like walking into a classroom in some places.

So yes. Certainly. Or install blackboards and do the thing properly.

[Johnnie99]

Poorly conceived poll. There should have been a choice...

Businesses can charge whatever they want as long as it is clearly posted and fair warning is given when the charges are very large.

Redo the poll.

A choice?

Did you miss it?

Yes or No.

Seems clear enough to me.

[RasiMike]

Yes they could. I noticed there is a similar debate going on in other countries where cafes and fast food joints are offering free wifi on the premises. Apparently patrons are buying a 3 dollar coffees just to log on and sit in comfort at cost to the business.

[razer]

Didn't answer because charging for overstay can be abused by the staff or manager.

If the coffee house or fast food is busy, like during peak hours YES, but if business is slow NO.

Marketing strategy will tell you if business is slow, it's good to have people at a table even if for appearance sake.

I can't count the places I passed by simply because they were empty. I assume the food and or service is not good.

[micmichd]

No.

Coffee shops or restaurants are meeting points. If the one you want to meet is late, getting kicked out would spoil the meeting, maybe to the disadvantage of the owner.

[kotsak]

"I know it when I see it"

The above should be the threshold used to judge when a customer abuses his/her stay. Most joints looks like a classroom or work desk <deleted>..

[overherebc]

No.

Coffee shops or restaurants are meeting points. If the one you want to meet is late, getting kicked out would spoil the meeting, maybe to the disadvantage of the owner.

Just to take that further.

Yes, a restaurant can be a meeting place, but, a meeting place where you buy and consume food while you have your meeting, be it 2 people or 4/6/8 people.

You surely don't expect a restaurant to let you sit and 'meet' without buying a meal do you?

Just trying to clarify your answer.

[steveyinasia]

It's like walking into a classroom in some places.

So yes. Certainly. Or install blackboards and do the thing properly.

Starbucks in Singapore has a good balance that is actually enforced, and the rules followed by students. They allow students in to study only in the not business times so this mean between 10 and 12, then again from 3 to 5. No study allowed over the weekends. I complained about the students in Suzuki Mall Starbucks, they not only take over the tables, they go to lunch elsewhere and leave their books(on several occasions I just packed up their books nicely and sat at the table). Starbucks staff did nothing, an email to Starbuck headquarters gave no response. I found a new cafe that does not allow students, has much better coffee and is cheaper...thanks Starbucks for allowing me to discover a much better place.

[overherebc]

It's like walking into a classroom in some places.

So yes. Certainly. Or install blackboards and do the thing properly.

Starbucks in Singapore has a good balance that is actually enforced, and the rules followed by students. They allow students in to study only in the not business times so this mean between 10 and 12, then again from 3 to 5. No study allowed over the weekends. I complained about the students in Suzuki Mall Starbucks, they not only take over the tables, they go to lunch elsewhere and leave their books(on several occasions I just packed up their books nicely and sat at the table). Starbucks staff did nothing, an email to Starbuck headquarters gave no response. I found a new cafe that does not allow students, has much better coffee and is cheaper...thanks Starbucks for allowing me to discover a much better place.

More than I would have done. The books would have gone on the floor in a pile.

[MikeTexas]

It's their business they can set any rules they want.

[StefanBBK]

Yes, provided rules / charges are published.

Politely ushering them out would be the better option I think.

[northernphil]

I think ( as I said yesterday on this issue ) if folk were more into thinking about others trying to make a living than themselves there wouldn't be these issues. Go out for a coffee or a meal, partake and when done move on. Use your or someone elses place for a meeting and provide coffee for your guests.

[timmyp]

When I sit for long periods of time at a coffee shop, I keep ordering. I see it as rental of the seat/table. They are running a business after all.

Such fees are common in Japan. I think the translation is a "seat charge." Usually it's in bars.

It's not a public park, it's a business. I am often bewildered that people think they can use the facilities so freely. It seems ridiculously selfish to me.

It's not easy for management to ask someone to leave. It certainly risks conflict. There is nothing Thai or Asian about the desire to avoid a conflict. Westerns who believe they can so easily confront people either get off from telling others what to do, or really lack social skills.

For management to confront a customer, It makes other customers feel uncomfortable as well, especially if the freeloader customer begins in argument. Posting the rules makes it clear and easy, and would put the burden back on the customer to pay up for the seat they occupying.

I good rule might be "leave 30 minutes after making your purchase", meaning that you can make a new purchase and reset the clock.

[thaigold]

It got so bad in Siam Paragon, that AU Bon Pain put up a sign in Thai advising not to bring in food from outside of the restaurant. The game plan used to be that one Chula girl would set down and about 5 of her giggling, chatting friends would come in from 7-Eleven with goodies and spend 3 hours doing school work. One: These selfish little brats took up space, but by their actions, showed they had a right to do it; second; I really hate these little snots.

In the U.S., we'd simply run them out.

[Willi th]

Different country different manners...

e.g. Vienna has a long tradition to sit in a coffeeshop (Kaffehaus) drink a view coffee and read the newspaper for hours.

Its also a social meeting point.

Nobody care how long you sit except they are full. Then they push you kindly to consume more...

[NickJ]

Electric seats.......Stay to long and you get shocked. They have something similar in Japan. They sell real small cups of coffee there though......

[Loptr]

It's not just coffee shops that suffer from squatters taking up space and not buying anything... I stopped at one of my favorite places for a late breakfast yesterday... It's a small place with only 8 tables... Half of the tables were occupied by foreigners on their laptops using the free wifi... They were still there after I finished my meal, paid and left... How can a business survive if half their resources are consumed by freeloaders?

[irwinfc]

i voted yes to dissuade the shameless coffee shop squatters from hogging tables - i don't even care how many drinks they buy (if they buy at all)!

[quandow]

I'm sure we've all seen the sushi shops that charge a set fee and a time limit to pork down as much as you can in that time. Anything over, you are charged extra. They appear to do quite well. Same with the coffee shops. Those chairs represent hourly charged real estate. Air con costs money, coffee shops need to show a profit or they will go under. If people don't like it, go elsewhere.

[GuestHouse]

It got so bad in Siam Paragon, that AU Bon Pain put up a sign in Thai advising not to bring in food from outside of the restaurant. The game plan used to be that one Chula girl would set down and about 5 of her giggling, chatting friends would come in from 7-Eleven with goodies and spend 3 hours doing school work. One: These selfish little brats took up space, but by their actions, showed they had a right to do it; second; I really hate these little snots.

In the U.S., we'd simply run them out.

Meanwhile the Au Bon fills up with lecherous Farangs ogling the short skirts... well all except the one grumpy in the corner who is furiously typing stuff into an ap on his smart phone.